The Real-Life Ari Gold: How Ari Emanuel Built a Hollywood Empire

25:32No, but it's like you have such a good reputation and everybody at the end of the day still wanted to work with you. I don't think a client or an associate, a family member ever had a question. If we were going up the hill, either I was leading or I was on the side. If there was a battle to happen and somebody was trying to screw us over, I don't mind being the first person in the heat. When you have leaders that would do that, you create an environment that people will be very loyal. How instrumental do you think that reputation has been in the success that you've had and the deals that you've been able to do?

26:07As you know in business and any good businessman, most good deals happen right in the middle. And whether it's a deal or you're trying to navigate somebody who's creative with his vision and a person financing it or marketing or doing it, you're trying to just get them to see each other's point of view. The definition of me being a diplomat would be shocking for your audience to hear, but that's the job. That's the job. And that's the job, whether you're an agent or whether you're owning TKO and navigating that or whether you're talking to investors, that's just the job. Trying to be, as funny as me saying this, trying to be an ambassador and an advocate for yourself and or for your clients.

26:52No, I feel like that's very clear that there was a level of consistency and reputation that you displayed over and over and over again, which made you a really reliable source. Even if you were just reliably rageful, people understood what they would get. If I have an idea or a vision or a requirement or something for a client, I'm relentless. Yeah, well, clearly. They know that. The calls, I mean, there's a reason this book's called Roll the Calls. You are relentless. You still make that many calls. Yeah. There was a situation with a client. A show was getting moved early in our career. It was on King and Hill and Greg Daniels, incredible client, The Office, et cetera.

27:33and I get back in the office at the weekend. I have our research people do all the work around the show and we come up with this strategy instead of moving behind the Simpsons. We have to move it not on, I think it was Wednesday night, not to seven o 'clock after football. And I remember, and he's a dear friend, I destroyed Peter Turnit's phone sheet to get that meeting, to make the presentation, to get that time slot because they were advocating a different time slot. It was horrible what I did. I mean, I just, I did not stop calling. I did not. That was on the border of stalking. Clearly. And yeah, that's what you have to do.

28:16Do you think you still have to do that? Yes. You do. Fuck yeah. So then what do you see? But I do it differently now. I definitely do it differently. Well, of course you do it differently now, but what about people coming up? Like, what do you say to people that are sitting there and then I want to be as successful as Ari Emanuel? Every Christmas, I take all my former assistants that are now agents to lunch and celebrate. So nice. And I give them, I've given them watches that they've made it and they're really successful. They're really great at what they do. And we talk about horror stories. And one of my former assistants that's now an agent said, it's so tough.

28:52And I just turned to her. I said, shut the fuck up. What are you talking about? It's tough. and Bill Haber said this to me, he goes, just keep on turning over the rocks until you find what you need. The job is to make the calls, not wallow in, oh, it's so hard, and just do the job. Your job is to be business creative. Find the answer to get, if you believe in this client, you believe in that project and you believe in that situation, get to a yes. That's the job. And don't worry about all the other things, how hard it is people are returning. Shut up. Do the job. Do a job until you can't do it anymore.

29:30Until you get that yes. But Ari, how much of that has changed? Because are you still finding those people? Yes. I have signed a new client. Yeah. I believe in an idea for this client. That's what you're doing. I'm pounding away on projects this big. That's a job. And I still do it today. Pick up the phone and don't stop. As much as it might be irritating. You have developed a very unique way of working. Like as you go through this book, you realize that there is a bunch of routines that you are constantly in learning mode. You are always reading. You are meeting everybody. You take meetings with people that you find inspiring.

30:08You have all of these mentors around you, but you also work like an absolute dog. Like you work from morning to night. I cannot still work out when you sleep, how many hours you sleep. It does not feel like a lot. I feel like you're a four or five hours sleeper. Not on that. Do you get longer now? I go 10 to about 3.30. Okay, that's a whole five. I'm 65, so I get up and I do what I do. And then I'll up at 4.30, five o 'clock. Okay. And then the workout, the thing. But that's what I want to talk about. Then the crazy routine. You still have the crazy routine. Yes. Do you think that that is part of your system that has obviously like increased your output?

30:46I think it's very important to have routine. I have the voice like everybody else. like, go back to bed. I don't listen to that voice. I make sure I don't listen to that voice. What'd you do? I just get my ass up. As much as sometimes I'm exhausted, listening to that voice, you will not win. And a lot of people don't want to win. So they listen to the voice and I'll work out tomorrow. That phrase, or I'll do this tomorrow. I don't do that. I made a deal, right? I'm advocating for myself. There's a contract with myself. I do the job. And then there's other things, you know, I don't eat for like today was a 24 hour fast day after the workout, the ice bath, all those things so that you have the ability to work and kind of fight the voice in your head.

31:38But that routine permits this whole other process. And I read articles, somebody I find interesting in an article, get me the journalist, get me the person in the article. I make the call. I text them. I, in this day and age, you can get to anybody. I get to them. I have the conversation and figure out how it put, kind of fits into my jigsaw puzzle in my life. And is that always work related or is it sometimes just for pleasure? Just life. Just life. For example, in the book, I read the article about Mark Andreessen, a dear friend. Yes. He does the same thing that I do in his own way. He meets people.

32:13We start talking. I started this company, Rain. I say, I want you to invest. You asked him for$5 million. He says, I'm going to do this with Egon Durbin and Nikesh, who was at the time working for Google. I then meet Egon. So this is kind of how it all starts happening. Egon, who's one of the best business minds I've ever, I mean, the guy's. He's like a genius. I don't like using that word, but when it comes to financially structuring and that. And also seeing a vision of where businesses are going, there's nobody better in the world. And he bought a company that he sold to Microsoft that made his career.

32:49Skype. Incredible. Nobody saw it the way he saw it. Sold it for six or seven billion dollars to them. It was WhatsApp before. And Microsoft shut it down. He then calls me. So it starts with Mark Andreessen. Egan then calls me and says, Teddy Forsman had gotten sick and passed away, who I knew very well. And he says, I want to buy you and I want to go after it together. IMG, because here's where I see the world going. And I had seen the same thing. And I had been out there trying to raise money. And I said to him, you're never going to do this. PE firm's never going to do this. He goes, give me three weeks.

33:24Let me see your numbers. And that's just how I built my life. Some people say it's curiosity. I try and change it a little bit because I don't like that word. And I'm trying to create a new word for it. The new word I'm trying to create for it is this thing called, because I'm still, I feel like a child, wonder. I wonder about these things and I just read them, whether it be health or investing or relationships. And that's what I do. You act on your wonder. And that's the big difference because I think a lot of people are highly curious. Well, that's that voice in your head. Yeah, but you've managed to control it.

33:58That says, no, don't make that call. It's going to be embarrassing. Are they going to take my call? No, they're not going to take your call the first time if you've only done it once. Figure out how to get to them. But you did this before you were successful. You would badger and badger and badger and you call and call and call. I don't know when Andreessen Horowitz started, but he was on the cover of Fortune or Forbes. You just phoned him out? Just phoned him out. How much of success do you think is talent? And how much is having just a higher tolerance for rejection, repetition, the pressure, the discomfort, all the things that you think is a bit about?

34:31Yeah. You think you're going to do it not being smart? You have to be smart. And you have to be all those other attributes. Your relationships have become so much a part of your reputation because this, this kind of thirst for knowledge, the curiosity, the serendipity, the wonder, as you call it, has kind of meant that people have trusted you. They've supported you. They've backed deals that you've wanted to do. What did you understand early about cultivating professional relationships that you think everybody should know? I just wanted to meet people that I found interesting. But it wasn't just interest because you were also like, there was business opportunity in there.

35:08So I did it. And then that just, you don't know what the end is. Certain people won't even get to the beginning and it takes work. Those relationships take work. You send articles, you have a conversation, something you don't understand that they think they might, you call them. There's no reason for it. You're just engaged in conversation. You're wondering about stuff and you're talking. And then that leads to other things. You're becoming useful to those people. And they're useful to me. And I'm in a business. The good thing is I'm in a business that they all like and are interested in. So there's a lot to that sauce.

35:46Time is one of those things every founder gets very serious about protecting. You learn what can be automated, what can be delegated, and where your attention actually needs to grow. Hiring is a perfect example. The work is important, but the process can take over fast. You're looking for someone who has the right experience, understands the role, and actually wants the job you're hiring for. We all have our own time-saving hacks for everyday life. If you're a business owner, you can save time hiring with ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter has a new feature that quickly lets you see the most interested, qualified candidates first, so that you save time by meeting the right people faster.

36:26And right now, you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com slash aspire. From there, ZipRecruiter helps you move more quickly through the hiring process. Their matching technology helps find qualified candidates quickly and candidates can tell you in their own words why they're interested in your job, which gives you a clearer read before you spend time in the interview process. Save time and meet great candidates sooner with ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free at ziprecruiter.com slash aspire. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash Aspire.

37:00Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. When it comes to your health, there's a big difference between trying to piece things together on your own and having access to legitimate care. That is one of the reasons HERS is so interesting. Weight Loss by HERS gives you access to licensed providers online so you can understand what options may be appropriate for you and get a personalized treatment plan if prescribed. Through HERS, eligible patients can access FDA-approved GLP-1 options, including the Wegovy pill and the Wegovy pen. Wegovy is designed to support weight management when combined with a diet and exercise, and HERS connects you with a licensed provider who can determine whether treatment is right for you.

37:40Everything happens online through HERS, and if prescribed, your medication is delivered right to your door. The support also goes beyond medication. Weight Loss by HERS includes access to 24-7 messaging with your care team, plus in-app lifestyle and nutrition support like recipes, meal plans, fitness videos, sleep content, and so much more. Ready to reach your goals? Visit forhers.com slash aspire to get personalized, affordable care that gets you. That's F-O-R-H-E-R-S dot com slash aspire. Forhers.com slash aspire. Weight Loss by HERS is not available in all 50 states. Wegovi is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk AS.

38:21To get started and learn more, including important safety information, Wegovi clinical study information and restrictions, visit 4hers.com. One thing I think about a lot is why some habits actually last, because most of us know what we're supposed to do. We know we should eat in a way that supports our energy. We know we should make choices that help us stay consistent. but the reality is if every choice that's better for us feels like discipline eventually it starts to feel like a negotiation. Nutrition is a perfect example. For a long time the protein bar category almost trained people to expect a compromise.

38:58You could find a bar with great macros but the taste or the texture was disappointing or you could find something that tastes good but it relied on ingredients you were probably trying to avoid. The team behind Stars and Honey saw that everyone was settling. So they decided to close the gap. They started with a really simple belief. You should not have to choose between nutrition and pleasure. I think that it is actually a really smart way to think about building better habits because the choices you can repeat are usually the ones you genuinely enjoy. Stars and Honey makes protein bars inspired by desserts you actually want to eat.

39:34There's an iced lemon cookie, mint chocolate chip, peanut butter mousse, and even red velvet. It makes healthy snacking feel like a treat. Each bar has 15 grams of protein and only four grams of sugar. Their standard is the right one. Would you still want to eat it even if it weren't a protein bar? You can throw one in your bag, keep one at your desk, have one between meetings or reach for one when you want something sweet but need to stay on track. The whole thesis is that habits work through repetition and eating well shouldn't require willpower to keep up. When the option that supports your goals is also the one you look forward to, consistency stops being the hard part.

40:13That's the point of getting your daily choices right. Those are the ones that quietly compound. Stars and Honey protein bars are now available at starsandhoney.com or at Target stores nationwide. Order online now or pick up a box during your next target shopping trip.

40:35I like to talk to you about your leadership style and culture, because it's something that comes up around you time and time again. Guys, what's yours? No, I'm kidding. I have a very specific culture, actually. And I think, again, I learned it from all the other places that I've been. You know, as an employee, you always look around and you see like, why the fuck am I doing all this? So what did you learn from Duncan? Now I'm reversing this interview now. I tell you what, one of my big principles is that so much of your culture will be dictated by who you hire, who you fire and what you tolerate.

41:08And I make those decisions every day. So I don't think there's any big secret. It's in the decisions that I make every day. If I tolerate a certain behavior, it's not doing that person a favor. It's what it says to the rest of my fucking team. There's just a zero tolerance. And so in those decisions of who I bring in, I mean, California, forget about it, but what you can do internally is look at how you promote people. I try to make really meaningful decisions about that. Are a reflection of who you are as a leader, whether that be employees, how you're going to run the company, your relationships, that's just an indication of who you are as a person.

41:45And once people see in the book, even though a lot of people ask me about Taylor Swift, I wish I could have sold her on William Moore. She liked IMG. And, you know, she was a massive star. And I fucked that up that I couldn't sell her on and advocate for the rest of the organization. But not signing her is an indication like, here's what I said I'm going to do. And I'm going to, we're going to live by that is an indication of your leadership. What you say to people that offend you in the world talks about your leadership style and who you are as a person. You're saying what I live by. Who you're in business with and who you're not in business with and how you handle situations is an indication for your employees.

42:26I got good parents. I got parents that I respect. And that then creates its own culture. What does somebody need to do to succeed as a colleague or an employee of yours? Well, I'm in at 7.30, 8 o 'clock and you can always get me on the phone. I turn it off at 8.30. They know how I am with my family. They need me to do something. I do it that next call. They get it. I pass down clients and I stay involved in clients, but I let them try and lead. All those things, if people do the same, they'll be good associates. Do you require people to be in person with you? I want people to be in the office.

43:06I think that's important for a culture of creativity, which we are. We just opened up this whole new office. I got really emotional. I heard. So it blew my mind. and I think it's important to teach the younger generation to be in the office. So we create the team, I didn't, they create an incredible environment, giving people credit when it's their credit. And that just creates an environment where people think that they have a voice. Great. Right. And that they one day can be the people running the firm. I don't want to be that guy that sits around forever at the same company and, you know, this company is theirs.

43:45That's very clear. I mean, just to contextualize it, because what you've built is so massive. You started Endeavor with three other agents and very little money. You then merged with William Morris. You acquired IMG and UFC. You took the company public. You also then delisted it. Well, we didn't go public at the beginning. We understand that, but then you did, right? It's like you first didn't, then you did. Then you didn't. In the middle of COVID, yeah. We all watched it, Ari. We saw you. And then you've been building Mari. Am I saying that right? You've taken a company through every stage imaginable.

44:17And I wonder what a founder needs to understand about taking companies through different stages. You know, there's a graph and certain people think there's, it's a straight line up for success. I don't know what you feel. I don't feel that. It's up, down, all around. That's success. If you're going to start a company, and you've started one, you better be ready to eat glass. And it is a bitch. And not a lot of people want that. To eat glass. Yeah, to eat glass and to make it and go through all the good, bad shit that it takes to be successful. It's brutal. Brutal. There is a tipping point. I don't know if it was Ron Meyer.

45:01Michael would say it to me. You know, at that year seven to 10, you start, begin the hockey stick. And for us at Endeavor, that was the case too. So 2005, 2006 started to really go. But it takes so much longer than anyone thinks. And if you knew it, I'm not sure you would start it. For some other reason, I'm 65 now and I just started Mari and I'm at it again, but I love it. What do you think causes somebody who's extremely talented to fail within one of your companies, where do people go wrong? Ego. Ego. Credit. Ego. People want to take too much credit. Or schadenfreude. Like they don't want, you know, they don't want you to get credit.

45:45And it just eats them up inside. They don't change themselves because, you know, every 10 years in your marriage, in your life, you're reflecting, do I like this person? Do I like that person that's with me? And you have to, if you want to stay, you have to adapt. It's one of the things my wife has taught me. You just have to grow and continue to grow. You can't stay that guy with rage. You can't stay that guy that's insecure. You can't, you have to keep on growing. You're somebody that has made an entire career out of spotting people's potential, out of seeing perhaps what somebody else wouldn't necessarily see.

46:22Are you talking now in the talent business? Yes, it's in the talent business, but also you've done that with executives, right? You've decided that this person is going to move from an assistant to an agent that this person has something special in them. And I wonder what tells you that people have the potential to become exceptional. Can I ask you a question? So when you're dyslexic, do you think one of your really good talents is EQ? I do. A million percent. So in the book, I'm on the plane. I'm flying back from New York. In first class, it was two seats, one seat, two seats. And I'm reading all my articles to just learn about the world and see who I'm going to call.

47:00And the guy next to me is typing away like crazy. And I'm reading for three hours, my scripts, my articles. I'm done reading. And this dude is typing away. I couldn't take it anymore. I just couldn't take it. I was wondering, who is this guy? So I get up, I go to the guy at the window sitting next. So I'm here and there's a gentleman here typing away. And I said to the guy at the window, get up, sit in my seats. He goes, excuse me? I said, what can you fucking understand? Get up and sit in my seat. I would not have got out of that fucking seat. So he did. And I go sit down. Who is that guy? And this guy is typing away.

47:42And I finally cross my legs like this. I lean over to him. What the F are you doing? And that was Mark Shapiro. Oh, I love Mark. I love him so much. And that relationship. You became such good friends because that's what you say in the book. He's been the president of TKO. Mari is Mark and Ari. And we've had an incredible relationship. He's like the younger brother I've never had. And it's just been an incredible. And that's just seeing somebody, getting to know him, realizing his potential, realizing what we could do together and going for it. And that's been my life. Is there a quality that you consistently find in successful people?

48:23Yeah, they work really hard. they're curious, wonder, and they care about winning. Yeah. It was funny because you said it, you said in the book that you look for people that are consistently consistent. Yeah. And I loved that. I don't have to worry ever with the people that I'm, I back. I don't know all the employees anymore because I haven't hired them, but the people that I'm involved with, they work hard, they're consistent. They have a routine. They're willing to learn and adapt. They're willing to take criticism. At this point in your life, you've said a couple of times, I'm 65. Like you're clearly at like some, you know, other stage in your mind.

49:02You look happy about it. I am. If I was you, I'd be quite happy with myself too. I'm curious to understand like what you've learned and what you think all the success is for. Because nobody needs to write a book. Writing a book is really, really hard. It took 10 years. I mean, the rumors are true. because I heard about this. I mean, that's insane. But that's all up to you. No, no, no. It was supposed to be, first of all, the guy that wrote the book with me, this guy JR, is a beautiful person. My publisher's husband. He's a beautiful, beautiful human being. It was supposed to be when we went public the first time, which we didn't go.

49:44And so we just kept on going. And it wasn't easy. I was nervous, but he was just incredible. And I guess I would say to you is, would you rather have a life of meaning or a life of pleasure? And for me, a life of meaning is pleasure. That's why I continue to do it. My parents taught me to try and, even in the smallest way, make the world a better place. I have four beautiful kids with my ex who did a great job with me. We scored four touchdowns. And I'm now in a beautiful place and a beautiful marriage. and I'm doing what I want to do. And I'm still interested and still involved and still curious, still wondering.

50:26Ari, you say the most beautiful thing in the book. Well, what I thought was like the most beautiful line for me. And it's when you meet Mark Bradford and you said the artist Mark Bradford and you said it was like a bit of a turning point for you. You said in the center of your chest, I feel this truth. It's not the art you make. It's the artistic attitude you bring to whatever you make. Whether it's a mural or a movie deal, Whatever you do should be approached as art. I represent incredible creators like Mark Bradford, who's a friend now. Great artists and advocated for him. But I think what agents do is an art form.

51:00And I said, you have to be as creative in business as your artist is. Writer, director, actor, podcaster, whatever. You have to be the creative business mind for them. And I take that seriously. And I think my associates take that seriously. And if you can do that, you're as much of an artist making a deal, creating an opportunity as the artist is creating it. Because without you, it doesn't work. That is your artistry, creating the opportunity for the person that you have decided to give part of your life to. And that's what I do. When you finally stop rolling the course, what do you hope they all add up?

51:41to. It's a life of meaning. And I, and that I made a difference. My kids can look up to me and that I continue to be, I'm not always happy, but I'm, I'm continuing satisfied. I don't even know what the fuck happy means. You know, I don't know what that means. If you're a really successful person, fuck if you're always happy. You're not, you're, I'm satisfied a lot and I'm happy a lot, but that I'm satisfied. What do you still aspire to be or to become? I don't think like that because I just, I'm just doing what I want to do. I learned from what I've done, but I'm not looking like, oh, I got to be there because that's like ego, legacy, all those things that I really think are just bullshit.

52:29Sorry. Don't say sorry. It's the best answer. It's the best answer. All right. Rapid fire. Fastest way to lose your trust. Lie about what you've done. What's more dangerous in a leader, ego or insecurity? Are they different? Three things successful people do every day. They read a lot. They pay attention to what's around them and have meaningful relationships. Is there a book that's changed your life? Yeah, because this book was written by JR. When I read the Agassi book, because he wrote that, I realized this is the man for my life and he's definitely changed my life. Ari Emanuel, thank you so much.

53:04Thank you. You are wonderful. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful to you.

53:12If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Greed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Ashley McShan, Derek Brown, and me. Executive producers from Odyssey are Asha Saluja and Leah Reece-Dennis. Producer, KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Shultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Phil Sweetek and Carlos Delgado.

53:52Social media by Olivia Homan, Catherine Bale. Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company and WME. Josephina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson-Rose, Tim Meikle, Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Sean Cherry, and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E. That's Aspire, A-S-P-I-R-E, with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emagreed.me.

54:36Your line just went down. Production stopped. A supervisor wants answers. And someone's digging through a binder for the maintenance history. Every one of those minutes costs money. And most of the time, that breakdown could have been prevented. That's where MaintainX comes in. MaintainX catches the failure before it happens. Preventative maintenance plans on every key asset to improve reliability. Work orders assigned and tracked right from your phone. Everyone from the floor to the front office is in the loop. Companies on MaintainX have cut unplanned downtime by over 30 % and saved thousands on parts and labor every year.

55:17See what MaintainX can do for your operation. Try MaintainX free at maintainx.com, an Autodesk company.