S5 Ep 4 | How GRIND’s Brand Director Went from Glamour to Shaping Culture, One Coffee at a Time.

0:04Welcome to Beyond Marketing, the podcast. I'm Mara Janovizzi. I'm the founding CEO of Amgen Power, global integrated market agency. Today, guest is the true culture shaper, Stacey, the brand director at Grind, the bold London-born cough brand, redefining daily rituals with style, sustainability and soul. Her career spans from Conde Nast to Urban Outfitted, where she helped shape culture through storytelling and brand experience. Now as Grinds brand director, she's bringing that same creative force to one of the UK's most exciting brands. So welcome to Beyond Marketing, the podcast.

0:44Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much. I think we've been trying for a few months to have this conversation. Yes, to organize this. So I'm thrilled to be here. I'm very happy that you're here. So welcome. So first of all, US to UK to Australia, back to UK. Tell me about your journey. Tell me about where are you from? How have you ended up in UK? Before we actually talk about marketing, I like to talk about personal experience. Of course. Of course. Yeah. So grew up in Philadelphia, lived there until I was 19. then I moved to New York lived in New York for 15 years um ended up taking a job back in Philadelphia so I moved back to Philly which was amazing and then actually while I was on a business trip at that job which was at Urban Outfitters um I met a lovely English man in a Lyft in London wow and decided um you know I really fancied him so so luckily um my my current job at Urban afters they offered me the chance to move to london so i came to london um and yeah then ended up finding getting a new role in australia then i moved back to the states covid happened i was stuck in america even though i was married to an englishman um he was here or he was with you in america uh he was in london he was in london while i was in america yeah so we did we did a long distance marriage for two years then i came back to london finally and then ended up a grind so So it's been a journey and lots of flight miles.

2:17Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:But it's a very exciting journey. It is an exciting journey, for sure, for sure. But tell me a little bit about your career. Because as we're discussing prior, the podcast started. So you work at Cone Nast. You work at Urban Outfitters Fashion. But also BuzzFeed, which is a media company. And now working with Grind. And just tell me a little bit about like your career path and the journey. And how does it feel to be navigating for so many different industries? But having always the creative taking you with all this, you know, career journey. Totally, totally. Yeah, so I think I always wanted to be a writer.

3:02Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:So that was sort of always my like kind of core skill. So coming out of uni, I went to school in New York. coming out of uni, I knew that I wanted to be a writer. So immediately, you know, this was in 2005. So when magazines were still like the thing, right? So I very much wanted to work in magazines. So interviewed, I gave myself like one month to find a job, which is ridiculous, right? But I was like, I'm going to find a job in a month. Very ambitious, very ambitious. And I truly was like, I know everyone loves to say this, but I truly was the like$20 in my pocket living on a mattress. Like, I have to figure this out.

3:37Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:Interviewed for a bunch of gigs, made it to the final round, didn't get it, but then saw a job listing for an advertising assistant at Interview Magazine. So I was like, surely that can't be that different from an editorial assistant. It's dramatically different, right? Dramatically different. But I got the gig and that really started my entire career, right? Because joined as an advertising assistant, Interview Magazine founded by Andy Warhol, amazing cultural, you know, magazine that has such a legacy. and very quickly once I realized I could write, they were all about me working on, you know, marketing decks and concepts and, you know, kind of consumer facing like advertorials, that sort of thing.

4:15Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:So even though I was very junior, they were like keen to kind of use my talent, even though I had no expertise at that point. Right. So it ended up being probably the best thing for me because I ended up then working in publishing, eventually landed at Condé Nast and I worked on the kind of sales marketing side of things. And with that, I basically had to take on a new brand every single day. So even though I was working under the Glamour Magazine umbrella, my job was to work on, you know, integrated marketing campaigns for everyone from, you know, tampons, right? So then having to work on Coca-Cola to then having to work on, you know, Fuse Iced Tea.

4:55Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:So I did everything from like food and drink to women's products to, I also worked on Revlon for a bit. So every single day I had to come up with a new interesting marketing pitch for a different brand, but all through this lens of Glamour magazine and working to reach, you know, women between the age of like 25 and 45. So in that sense, it was sort of like working for this like advertising agency, right? And then do you think that's when your creative kind of side, kind of side flourishing? For sure, for sure. And also I think it's having to work on pitches versus just like, you know, active business, right?

5:30Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:Because like on the brand side, you know, you come up with an idea, you make it happen. Whereas every single day I was having to come up with ideas that may not actually come to fruition. So I had to be a bit more bold in my thinking and sometimes, you know, kind of offer things up and pitch things that we may not have the right budget for. And then when it would come in, I was kind of like, oh, wow, I have$75 ,000, to make this campaign happen that maybe needs$150. And it taught me to be really creative with budget and with the people that I work with and who do I bring in and how do I make buzz about something that needs to be much bigger than what the budget calls for.

6:07So you're learning how to pitch in a very early age. Oh yeah, very, very early age. Because pitch is something that I always say. It's not for everyone. It's not. Because you can be very good on creating the strategy and be very creative on putting together a storytelling narrative. but one thing is you do that another thing you go in front of the client and pitch and pitch it

6:26Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:right and bring them on board right and i think learning to pitch is incredibly powerful for your career like even if you don't work in sales right because every interview is pitching yourself right right no 100 i think pitch is just like even if it's as you said it's not part of the day-to-day job it's such an important it's a life skill it's a life skill because at the end of the day we always pitching ourselves regardless if it's not just a professional you know it's just like it's just and it gives you the confidence i think as more as you do it oh yeah more confident you you become totally uh and exposure therapy exposure therapy yes exposure therapy to know face your you know your demons let's say you know what i mean like you have to face your insecurity to actually go out there and and and pitch 100 100 and then okay but then like how long that career journey on yeah you stay at glamour yeah yeah yeah so i was at i worked at glamour at condenas i also worked at epicuria so kind of worked in food and drink space um while i was a condo as well and then ended up moving more into digital media so i worked at um buzzfeed for a bit and this was when cat listicles were like blowing up this was when like do you i don't know if you remember the blue dress yeah it was like is it blue is it i think it was a yellow that was when i was there it was it was a moment it was a moment and also all the traffic was coming through facebook right and then now you think like the world is completely different in terms of like how you get people to read and consume content so it was like a really amazing time to be there for sure um but i knew at that point i'd been in media for 10 years and i knew eventually i wanted to get brand side.

8:07Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:And it's actually quite hard to make that transition. You know, people want someone who has brand experience, right? So I applied for a job at Urban Outfitters. It was actually a bit more junior than where I was at, you know, because at BuzzFeed, I was the director of ad marketing and product innovation. And the role at Urban Outfitters was initially was senior marketing manager. So it was a step down, but I was like, I want this gig, I want this gig. And luckily, you know, the woman who ended up being my boss, like kind of took a chance on me. And I can see that she's creative. I think she can do this.

8:37Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:So I joined. And on my first day, I said to the girl who reported into me, I was like, what's a buyer? Like, I didn't know anything really about that. I love that. That's the best story. Yeah, yeah. You're like, what is this? And she's looking at me like, you're my boss. Oh, my God. You know, but then very quickly, I think within a year, I got promoted to global creative marketing director and then ended up taking on not only the American brand marketing, but also the UK brand marketing. so it was one of the best moves I ever made but it definitely was scary at first because I was like I'm stepping down also I had to move to Philadelphia I had to move back so I left left my home for 15 years um but it was the best move I could have made because that's what set me back on you know I guess the right trajectory the the brand trajectory that I wanted what it would say like the is the differentiation like from coming from in our public media to to brand to brands oh my Gosh, I mean, well, first of all, I think it was it was almost easier, right?

9:32Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:Because like I said, I was I was so used to working on different brands, different clients every single day, right? And and because I was doing so many pitches, while it was terrific experience, I wasn't necessarily getting the joy of then making it happen and bringing it to life, right? You know, I didn't have this portfolio that I could share of like, look at all the cool things I did. Instead, it was like, I have 75 decks of awesome ideas, right? Whereas brand side, It's like, you know, if you and your team come up with a great idea, you're going to make it happen. So suddenly it went from just pitching really cool ideas to like, oh, hey, we're going to do this mini festival at South by Southwest in the back lot of the Urban Outfitter store and have all these amazing artists and do these incredible activations.

10:11Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:And you're actually on the ground doing the work. And that was amazing. And not to mention, you're able to then look at like the actual sales and impact it has on the brand and on the entire company. And, you know, I still was amazed. And to this day, I'm so amazed when you, you know, I walk down the street and I see an Urban Outfitters in a random city, you know, like I would go to a random city in Georgia and be like, oh, my God, there's an Urban Outfitters and see like copy on posters that I'd written. And that was mind blowing to me. So I found it a lot more creatively fulfilling moving to Brandside.

10:45Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:To Brandside. Yeah. And it's interesting because like, as I said, you're from the US, but you lived in Australia for how long did you live in Australia? So Australia, not very long. So I moved to Australia for a job at Mecca Beauty, which is essentially like the Sephora. It's like the Sephora of Australia, right? And it just, that was, I wouldn't say, I don't want to say it was the biggest mistake of my career, but it definitely was the biggest challenge of my career. And that I moved myself to the other end of the world. All the end of the world. Other end of the world. And it just wasn't the right fit for me.

11:17Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:It wasn't the right fit. You know, me and the CEO got on fantastically. I interviewed for almost a year. You know, it was a really long process to get the gag. And I think probably within the first month, I knew it wasn't. It just wasn't going to work for me. It wasn't the right fit. And the biggest thing that I think people don't think about, especially someone like me, I'm a big risk taker. I'm like, let's do it. I think I can say that. I'm like, let's go. Let's go. And I think what you don't think about is, you know, when you relocate to another country for work, for a job, you know, they're not paying to relocate you out if it doesn't work out.

11:48Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:If it doesn't work out. Right? It doesn't work out. So that was a huge, I think, lesson for me in terms of like, you know, sometimes your risks don't pay off. But I got back on my feet, you know, probably three months after I left, you know, because I think I was there for like eight or nine months. And it all worked out. But it was hard. It was hard having to like tell the entire world, I'm moving to Australia for this amazing gig. And then be like, I didn't like it. And I'm coming home, you know? And that's hard. But it's like anything. But it's life experience. It's life experience. And then I think it's just like every challenge is just here to teach us something.

12:22Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:Oh, yeah. It's just like, yes. And then I think there's no kind of like, as you said, like I have to tell everyone I'm coming back. So it's just like it's life or sometimes it works and I didn't walk and we cannot be ashamed of it. We just need to face and then everything in the end of the day is learning to make us evolve. And probably maybe we will not be here if we haven't had that experience in Australia, right? No, it's so true. And actually, it's so funny. I, you know, that was, gosh, that was like five years ago, right? And just a couple months ago, I actually hired a designer from Mecca who had moved to London and was looking for a job and she's an amazing talent.

12:58Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:And I hired her on the team at Grind, right? So it's like, there's always a purpose. There's always a purpose. There's always a purpose. And now it's just like, it's amazing that like you have like from Philadelphia and then you lived in New York as well. Yeah, I lived in New York. Had your time in Australia, now in the UK, and then different roles and, you know, different type of, you know, service, but I also think it's a creative. It's incredible because probably you already now have the amazing understanding about how can you apply cultural relevance when you are, you know, creating your marketing, you know, ideas and vision for green, right?

13:36Because nowadays we talk a lot about, because social media has changed. Oh, my God. We marketing our product. I gotta talk about Facebook and Catlist.

13:46Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:Exactly. So I do remember Orkut or it's just me. So when I talk about Orkut, no one knows it. What was Orkut? Orkut is like, it was before Facebook. Oh, I remember MySpace. I had a MySpace account. Yeah, I had a MySpace too, but Orkut is even before MySpace. Oh my God, no. It's so old. But yeah, so social media has been changing the way we communicate, the way we engage with community. But for marketing, it's more and more impactful. And then it's kind of like I feel like we have to evolve every single week. Oh, every week. A hundred percent. It's just like there's no more like, OK, what is our plan for the next six months?

14:23No, it's what I plan for next week. What is actually working now?

14:26Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:Which I thrive in that environment. Like it actually works out really well for me because I've never been someone who's good at looking at like the year ahead. And, you know, and of course you have to do that with product development and manufacturing products, which we do at Grind. But I love that every week it potentially could change. And it keeps me excited. It's what keeps me in the role, right? The other day I said to my team, it's just like, oh, but what about next? Because, like, you know what? My mindset is like 48 hours is the maximum. It's just like, what are we going to do in 48 hours?

14:58Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:Because a week is quite, it can be stretched a little bit. 100%. But like, yes, because like culture relevance, being creative, being a storyteller as you are. And then you're saying that you're a writer, which helps a lot when it comes to creative. So tell me about Grindy because it's become a part of the culture of London. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's I have to say that like, you know, Grind is not. Of course, I would say not all coffee brands are created equally. Um, but I think my experience and, um, expertise I think is, is, is very well suited for Grind because Grind in itself is, has, has never kind of walked, um, you know, a very narrow line in terms of who they are as a brand.

15:46Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:Right. So it was never just about, about coffee and it was, it was always about creating an experience. So even when they launched in, you know, 2011, they were just a short shortage cafe. Right. And it wasn't just coffee. It was coffee by day, cocktails by night, you know, bringing DJs in, creating like something that was sort of an all day third space for people in East London to come and hang out. And then it, you know, it evolved rapidly. You know, it became sort of a hospitality group with multiple cafes and coffee shops and coffee trucks. And then, you know, 2019, when right before COVID started, they launched into home compostable pods and sustainability became a real, real brand pillar.

16:25Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:and that obviously with COVID became a massive, a massive, um, you know, product line for them. Right. So, so now we're not just the restaurants, the cafes, the coffee shops. It's like, we have this whole suite of products. Right. And then we also, you know, are now in grocery stores and with all of it, I've, I've never thought about it as a marketing, like a food and drink brand or just a coffee brand. We've always looked at it as sort of a lifestyle brand. And our CEO, David is, is you know is is the leading part of that right like he loves to make us a big part of culture and he's the one who sort of enabled us to create these amazing collaborations and partnerships that we bring to life and we create these amazing sort of ecosystems around everything we do and and we go to town right everything from the photo shoot to the design to the event to the influencers yeah and I think like you guys the way like doing this now is just like feels like is a part of our day-to-day life oh i love that yeah that's what we want because i have green at home so when i'm home yeah that's the coffee that i use yeah but then if i'm not home and if i have to get a coffee i look at my google map to see if there is there one is there one by my and then like if there's an opportunity to have at my office then i will have it my office totally so because it it's kind of like give you this as emotional connection with with the brand yeah And this is a very, it's not an easy achievement to make.

17:52Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:It's not. It's not. And I'm so glad to hear you say that because that's kind of exactly what we're aiming for, right? I think we're aiming to, you know, coffee culture can be very small and insular. And especially, you know, third wave coffee connoisseurs. It was all, you know, it was a bit snobby, right? This idea of coffee to be true coffee and to be speciality coffee has to be made a certain way and served a certain way. and what we've tried to do at Grind and certainly what we're trying to do in the future is kind of democratize it a bit right and they make it that craft coffee for everyone no matter what format you take it in right so whether you love getting it made by a barista at a cafe yeah or whether you want to use you know a pod machine at home because that's that's a simpler way to to make coffee or if you love whole bean coffee and you've got a Chemex and you want to do a pour over at home that's fine too or now that we do ready to drink iced coffee cans it's like they have we've got tons of flavors like and there's no shame in that right i think even when we launched flavors a couple years ago we we thought oh oh like even the campaign that my team made was all about like enjoying your guilty pleasures right and then now we don't have to lean into guilty pleasures because there's nothing to be guilty about like you know especially gen zed like have kind of pushed us in that direction too right because they love flavors they love flavors they like yeah bring bring on the caramel mocha chocolate latte let's do this and let's talk about then about the gen set right because this is like another audience that is not as easy to attract oh yeah and most important to retain right because they are much more judgmental when they are consuming any time of brands because you have to be sustainable yep the ingredient has to be you know they look at they know how to read packaging yeah ingredients totally it's just like it's a it's a lot of a box that you have to take in order to retain and that into your check community into a brand tell me about that and yeah yeah yeah i mean i think it's it's funny i think we you know definitely started as a brand that was like clearly targeted to millennials right because back back in 2011 and i think just by pure nature of us taking on sustainability as as a massive pillar right so with the home compostable pods, all of our coffee being ethically sourced from sustainable farms, you know, paying better than fair trade.

20:09Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:We sort of had these things that are very, these values that are very critical to Gen Z were already kind of baked into our offering and who we were as a brand. So it felt quite natural then, you know, for us to kind of target that group. Whereas I think other brands are kind of having to come up with secondary solutions and kind of like sub-brands to sort of reach, you know, those audiences. And we didn't have to do that. We had it which was great and and again sort of you know that day-to-night lifestyle like things like music being embedded eastland and all of that kind of does very much target you know a bit of youth culture that said what's what's interesting about grind is that we have a very wide range of customers right it's not just gem zed or like no you know millennials because this is how it just started and even beyond that right because there's people that just like really want a good cup of coffee and and youth culture still appeals to them right right so there's these interesting um groupings where it's not just gen z it's not just millennials there's also people who are you know gen x or potentially even boomers but they they just they they they're so cool they're still young and they want a brand that reflects that and so we we we do kind of appeal across the board which is really fun for us to kind of play with and then like experiential is something that you guys again as you said like back in the days you used to do the you know the live music yeah yeah old events because now the brands are typing more and more into your experience but this is something that you guys have already been doing for a long time oh yeah oh yeah i mean and we're we're really lucky you know it's um you know so many brands now especially are leaning into coffee right like luxury fashion brands are having little coffee coffee pop-ups and we're so lucky that we We have, you know, gosh, I think now we're 13 or 14 sites because we just opened a cafe in Manchester.

21:54Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:But we have sites to do pop ups in. Like we don't have to rent a corner shop. Like we have places that we can meet consumers in real life. Right. That said, we've definitely branched out and done things that are a bit beyond the coffee shop or the cafe. You know, we launched a collaboration with Clueless and took over Everyman or Screen of the Green Cinema on Upper Street in Angel and hosted a Clueless screening. Had like 150 influencers. That's exciting. Didn't tell anyone to dress up. But like had all of these influencers come dressed to the nines, like, you know, dressed as Clueless characters and served espresso martinis, etc.

22:34Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:So like even when we think outside of our cafes and coffee shops, there's this energy and this excitement around what we're doing. And it's amazing when we get to kind of bring that to life and see our work happening in real time. There's nothing like it. And I want to talk about partnerships. Look, how do you choose what the brand that is going to partner with? Because as you said, like coffee is having a big momentum. It is. For the brands that we work with, they always come to us with ideas of partnership and coffee is always on the list, right? Totally. It's just like, can we do a partnership with this coffee brand?

23:11This coffee brand. And then it's like coffee, ice cream. There's a few. Yeah, matcha. Everyone wants matcha now. Everyone wants to do.

23:18Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:It's hot. And I would assume that you guys probably are getting a lot of demand for potential partnership. So how do you pick and choose the right brand to associate to? Yeah. because at the end of the day it's not about do many is about doing the quality was quality and also the one that has a brand affinity and then something that's 100 related to your same ethos and yeah yeah i mean i think it's definitely been a lesson for me my my team knows this better than anyone because i think probably a year year and a half ago i there were so many amazing opportunities and and you could see the good and the various good bits in each of them so like i was saying yes too often, right?

23:59Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:You know, cause you're like, Oh God, this amazing brand. They're going to put us on social. They've got an awesome audience. We can sample our products. We should go in and do a coffee cart in their store. Oh, we should go and do this. Oh, someone wants to come in and do a special edition drink in our cafes. Let's do it. So I was saying yes too often. And then, you know, the joke I always make with my team now that I'm like, I'm in my year of no, I'm in my year of no, but it was, it was really hard. It was hard. And we had to learn like what, what truly is important and what's truly going to move the needle.

24:25Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:And I think it came from us doing, you know, a few partnerships where it didn't necessarily move the needle as much as we thought it would. And it allowed us to kind of be more discerning in who we work with. But the partnerships that have been the most amazing for us have been the big kind of product collabs that we've done. Yeah, seeing the peanuts that you guys did. Yeah, we have peanuts now. We did Clueless. We did Hello Kitty. We've worked with artists. I love the Hello Kitty one. I love Hello Kitty. But I also love the peanuts too because it's very nostalgic. It's very nostalgic. I actually had a man's I was wearing my peanut shirt my Snoopy shirt that was part of the collection yesterday and a guy stopped me on the street to say where's that shirt from and I was like oh my god you love it but that's the impact he wants to have when you're doing a collab it's totally and you know what even though we're really excited about them like up until the moment they launch you're just like hopefully everyone loves it as much as we do but you know with Peanuts it was their 75th it is their 75th anniversary um so the timing is right and for everything we try to make sure there's like a cultural connection that it's not random so even with Clueless it was gosh I think 30 years since it had launched which is like aging me because I was in high school when it came so it was the 30th anniversary right Hello Kitty it was her anniversary as well and also Hello Kitty actually is not a cat but a girl which is shocking um She's a girl and she's from London, which not everyone knows.

25:46Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:I didn't know that. Did not know that. So for all of them, we try to find these connections. And then we try to like build a whole world. So for Clueless, it was Clueless obviously is all about giving a makeover. And we're like, OK, we give coffee a makeover. And our amazing copywriter kind of came up with that sort of spin on what we do. And with Peanuts, it's he loves, you know, Snoopy loves having crazy summer adventures and kind of dreaming of a better world. And that is what we're trying to do at Grind in terms of like, you know, having coffee that's better for the planet and better for people.

26:17Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:So it's been amazing to kind of take these really well-known cultural icons and then connect them to our product in a way that people respond to. Incredible. And then you mentioned about influencers. Yeah. Yeah. So what is like, again, we talk about social media. It's impossible to not talk about influencers, careers, talents. Yeah. Because they are like a brand that does not engage with community and influencer. There's no way back. This is part of marketing now officially. When we started, when I found agents like 12 years ago, influencer market was just like an add-on. It was an add-on. And now it's like, especially in beauty, like, oh my God.

27:00It's not add-on anymore. It's what's actually drives the brand forward. It's the core. It's the core. so how is the relationship with you know grind and the influences so how do you engage with that yeah yeah and then what's the importance of the influences into what you guys are doing

27:18Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:totally totally i mean i think like like everyone we're we're we're constantly sort of trying to figure out okay what what really moves the needle but also what brings like true cultural relevance to your brand and i think you know for us i you know obviously it's a business relationship but we try to kind of like build friendships and true relationships with with the people that we work with so that it's not just one and done like here's a check thanks for that video we'll put it on our instagram goodbye you know it was like that 12 years ago but now it's just like if you do this it's just it's not gonna work so like we we return to many of the same influencers so like whether it's inviting to the event whether it's gifting them whether it again is doing like a paid content partnership with them we try to make sure that we kind of extend those relationships where they make sense you know we use influencers in a lot of our um uh brand campaigns so like for hello kitty we kind of did this like london-esque spin on sex in the city with with the four friends so we worked with four influencers then using them to sort of like not just promote the the the partnership and the product but also like they're more likely to post the campaign and additional content because they're they're featured in it like they're literally our models They're the people we're working with.

28:30Stacey Britt Fitzgerald:So I think that, you know, the best thing you can do with influencers is like really, truly lean in and build that relationship so that it's not just, you know, a spreadsheet of 25 names and sending them products. No, this is the old-fashioned ways of engaging with talent. I think it has to, first of all, has to have, you know, the authenticity behind the, you know. Yeah, it has to make sense. Everyone is talking about authenticity, but it's difficult to not use these words because, you know, I don't even know how to replace that word. No, it's so real. It's so real. So you have to make sure, because like back in the days, as you said, it was just like, okay, here's how much it costs.

29:06Here's your fee. This page is go and do it.