S6 Ep 12 | The Psychology of Space: How ELLE Decor A-List Architect Juliana Vasconcellos Designs Experiences

0:04Welcome to Beyond Marketing, the podcast. I'm Mara Genovese. I'm the founder and CEO of MG Empower, a global integrated market agency. Today's conversation is all about the psychology of space, emotional design, and the power architecture has in shaping the way we feel, the way we connect, and experience the world around us. Joining us today is an internationally recognized, Brazilian-born architect and designer, and my best friend, Juliana Vasconcelos, founder of Vasconcelos Studio. Welcome to Beyond Marketing, the podcast. What an honor to be here with you. I'm so happy to have you here. Thank you so much for coming all the way to Paris to be here with me today.

0:50As I said, Juliana is not just an incredible talent architect in design, but she's also someone that is a very good friend of mine that I have a huge admiration. And I just really want to have this conversation and to share the same admiration that I have and hope everyone that's listening to us today will leave it inspired by everything that you have achieved and done. So welcome. Thank you, Mayra. Ju, I'm a big fan of your work. I know your journey and I know how you have started and how incredible to see that your work, your name is globally recognized and you have been doing one of the most incredible projects all around the world, including Asia.

1:39but let's go back to childhood let's go back to to brazil where you're born tell me how growing up has inspired you to follow the passion and the path of being an incredible architect and interior design how how this has happened and if there's anything from your childhood that you remember singing or living that inspired you to become who you are today? Well, I was always surrounded by nature and I have these memories of feeling the colors. I'm very visual. I'm much more visual than with words. So I was always very curious and paying attention on everything. But mostly I think nature shaped the way I see the world.

2:31I grew up in a big city, Belo Horizonte, but it's very surrounded by mountains and waterfalls. And I remember I was really connected. Like every weekend, I was really deeply connected to nature. And I felt, I think Brazil, it's a very light and alive and colorful country. And the way people interact, it's like a happy soul we have. so it brought to my work some lightness and I remember when I was a child I used to really admire my grandmother's house so I had a really huge connection with my grandmother so it shaped the way I see details as well so it was my favorite house it was my second home.

3:32So nature and also architecture, Nehemiah, he's my favorite, number one. So there is a lot of his designs in Belo Horizonte. So I think it's a few things that helped me to choose this path. but in the beginning I always liked to draw and at some point I realized I wanted to be an architect but before I thought I was going to be like a painter but all this experience, the sense of the environment I think it was so powerful on me that I decided that because architecture is about shaping the space, people experience the space So I think it's, this mix made me decided to be an architect. But I know because before you become an architect, there's not many people that know, but you also then, you want to be a model.

4:32I did feel more, yeah. You were? For a few years. But this was before you become an architect? No, I was already in university. In the university. Yes. And cause like, this is kind of like, I'm just putting like a, you know, on information that no one knows, but you actually work as a model as well. Yes. And then is there any... For a brief moment. For a brief moment. And when you're at university, you're already doing both, like the modeling and the architect. And then, like, as a woman, we all know that there's a lot of, you know, challenge when we wanted to pursue our careers and want to make our name out there.

5:16So growing up and then having all this, as you said, inspiration about your grandmother house and the nature. And what was the moment that you go like, OK, so this is what I want to pursue. What was, do you remember what it was your first project when you just get the feeling of, OK, this is it. And then I'm just going to go for it. You mean after graduate? Yes. OK. I was lucky enough. My sister was an architect. And of course, I follow her path. So when I decided to be an architect, she was already in university. But she's not into the creativity so much. She's more like a management person. but in a way I follow her path so I was more very more artistic but with numbers I numbers shaped my life as well so math was the best subject I was obsessed with math for me was the most like clear and rational and I could understand more than words so it's funny so I found a balance between numbers and art in architecture so when I graduated she had already an office and she was starting her path of not being an architect anymore so she was like oh you can do this project with me you can do this project with me so I was very lucky that I graduated and I was already doing like projects yes so I had an experience to work on another office with another architect for I was a trainee and I stayed for a few years after was my only experience and just after I started my own business.

7:18First with my sister, she was already shifting to another field. And very soon I started my own practice. And well, I did like master plans, multifamiliar buildings. I did many bus terminals. Wow, I didn't know about the bus terminal. That's very interesting. Many, many. like I can remember, but quite a few. And at some point, I remember something changed. I was starting doing some interior. It started with one project for myself, was the first project of interior design. And then I remember I was looking at a magazine, a French magazine, and I really felt in love. I cannot describe my feeling of going through the pages.

8:16I was like... So I went more into interior design after... I remember this experience. I was in Rio and I don't know how many years ago. I cannot tell. But then the interior design, because your interior design is just like... is breathtaking for everything that you do. But you have a very distinctive signature about your interior design. You're much more minimalist in a way, but at the same time, everything that you create and you design, you can feel that it is a very emotional connection and it's very much about the experience that you're creating through your interior design. and it's not every interior design and architect that think that what they're creating, they're creating because they wanted to create an emotional feeling.

9:12They wanted to create an experience much more than just, you know, an interior design. What is your relationship with all you do and also with the emotional connection that you wanted to create? I think I'm a very sensitive person, very. so when I think about architecture and interior design I think I imagine the space the relation with the proportions and with the light and how people will interact and what feeling I want to bring. Of course it will vary depending on the project and the client and what is the purpose of it. But also what is very important for me is the context. I always want to bring the sense of our present moment.

10:15I don't want to bring like, I love vintage furniture, for example, but I don't want to create a space that it looks like it was, it's been done in the 70s or in the 50s. For me, this doesn't make sense. So it's like a puzzle. It's a storytelling. And I always like to pop the contemporary sense and also where is the architecture or the project is based because we have to relate with how is the culture of the place, how the weather, what is the impact of the weather. So it's so many things that we have to think. So each project is very unique. There is its soul. And I always like to bring authenticity and to understand what the client needs.

11:18So it's not about putting beautiful things together. There is other layers that I like to look after. So it brings more deepness, I think. And authenticity through the materials. I think the materials, they have its story. Tell me more about materials because like I never thought when I think about architecture or interior design that the material has such an impact on the feeling, on the emotional. Tell me more about how materials can be as well such an important part of the feeling that you're creating. Materials, it brings its own soul. So I love natural materials more than, of course, nowadays we have a lot of very technical materials and beautiful that we can use for some purpose.

12:17but I'm more like old style in the sense of the natural materials, they age. I like to see things aging and I respect it. So I like to see a stone, I like to see wood, natural wood. I feel it's alive. It's alive. It is indeed. So this brings this sense of belonging as well, because we connect in a way with the materials, the way it reflects the light and the way we connect with something that we, an experience we have previously with the same material. So it's very subtle, but it really brings a sense of belonging or some memories and also the colors. It changes the way you behave, the mood. So the light, everything connects and bring more humanity to the project.

13:24I love that. And then I can imagine like how challenge can be, because we're talking about like, of course, architecture, interior design that you do with like personal clients when they are like, you know, moving to a new house or new apartment. But you also do that on a retail space. You recently have done shoots stores in Brazil, which is just like unbelievable, incredible how you change the whole branding and the whole experience when you go to shoot store. I was in Brazil recently and I wanted to see it because I wanted to see your work and I was like wow it's the completely different experience that you create for shoots but at the same time it's the same product but the feeling is very different so when you have to create for retail space and then for you know a personal like for for like a personal client how is the difference of creating for for example if you're creating something for me which you know is a family and as a person but then when you go to retail space it's not talk about just one person you're talking about consumers that you don't know who they are what they're expecting so how do you go to that creative process when it comes to retail because retail more and more is about the experience right so we saw a massive shift after covid that to take people going back to you know to shopping in real life, we have to change the model.

14:53So now it's much more about the experience, the feeling, rather than just walking in to buy a product. So how do you, what's the process when it comes to retail? I love to work with retail. And nowadays we are working with a few brands, especially in Brazil, but we just launched our first retail space. It's not retail, but commercial is a showroom in Paris for a fashion brand. Yes. And it's, for me, it's like it's not a new world. I always work with commercial and special fashion brands. I have a very close connection with fashion. And it's beautiful how it came at this phase of my career to merge with fashion on this.

15:46because when I was a teenager, I wanted to be a fashion designer as well. I'm happy that I did that. Very happy. But in a way, I can emerge into a concept of a brand and understand what they want to bring to the customers because it changes a lot. It changes a lot. It can be completely different. So it depends. If a brand knows exactly where they are, who are their clients and what are the vision, it makes my work more precise. So it's amazing when you work with a brand that knows exactly what they are doing and what they want to communicate. And I think it's a very strong way to communicate and to connect with the customers.

16:43I mean, it's a marketing, but you experience, you feel, and you really can bring a memory to the client that can last way more. Many, many years. Many years, exactly. So I think we can have more freedom than with a residential client, for sure, because we are really shaping a vision of a brand and bringing experience through the materiality, through the colors, through if you choose if it's a minimalist space or not. It depends on what the brand wants to communicate. But it's a beautiful way to create a project. I'm obsessive with this. And I want to say about creating experience that lasts and people will be talking for longer.

17:37You do have a clear example with what you have done for La Vasa in Milan, which was last year. During the Milan Design Week. And I can see that people continue to talk about that experience because you just made it like a coffee experience. You just put this in another level because the entrance was all about the smell, was all about the process of, you know, of how coffee is, how can you say, like created. Tell me more about it. In many ways. Yes, because that was just like another such a clever, smart way to present a new coffee. So how did this come to life and how did you process that experience to become live in the way that it was?

18:35Because it was a huge society. Everyone was talking about it and still talking about it. Yeah, I was very happy with the result. and I remember the briefing was very short. Yeah, tell me about the briefing. Let's start with the briefing. What did they tell you? 100 % coffee. That was the briefing. That was the briefing. Literally, 100 % coffee. And I didn't know what was the product about. They couldn't share yet because the first idea was a pitch. So I wasn't into the project yet when I presented the first idea. so I couldn't have access to the information. So the briefing was 100 % coffee and I meditate.

19:20I had like five days to present the first idea, five to seven days with images and everything. So it was very short. So I remember I was in Paris and I really need to like breathe. and I mean, I work very well with pressure, under pressure. Did you? Okay, interesting. Yes. Usually, if I have some really short deadline, something good is coming. That's a good way of thinking. Yeah. I don't know. I'm very calm. You're very calm. I'm very calm. But it's funny, when I have a very short deadline, I don't know, something happens inside of me. And I remember it came from like a meditative space. So you meditated?

20:13I meditated, literally. Wow. Literally. I meditated and the idea came. Wow. And the idea came, the idea was to bring coffee as the center of life. So it was very deep, the idea, very subtle. There were many layers of thinking how people could experience, but also the way I experienced coffee. And I was happy to be grown up with this culture of coffee. So it was very, what I created was very true to you, to me. So I didn't create something that I didn't believe. I really believe what I was thinking. So I brought coffee as a center of life because caffeine brings some energy. So in the sense of the energy, the energy as the center of life.

21:16So I decided to create a circular space. So the pavilion was circular. I wanted something very meaningful, but very clean at the same time. This was so clean. So the choice was to work with the idea of coffee, 100%. So the color, the shape, the smell, the texture, was everything about one material, was everything about coffee. and so the shape was around but inside there was three steps. The first step was like where we would shift and calm down from the... Because it was the corridor, right? It was the corridor. Yes. So we walked through the corridor and started calming and finding yourself and feeling the smell.

22:18And you reconnect with your memories because the smells has this power in our lives. And also there is a sound that we had a very nice sound designer. So he brought some sounds that relate to the pregnancy. So, in a way, you were like going deeper in yourself on the way to arrive on the center of the pavilion, which was like a meditative space. There was a meditative space. It was rounded with the fountain in the center and the water and there is a smoke was the sense of life. So with the smell of coffee. With the smell of coffee. The floor was with coffee. The walls was with coffee. Real coffee was real.

23:19So it was like you disconnect. You connect with yourself. and in a way you are celebrating life. And the fountain representing coffee as the center of life. So I was putting coffee in the most important space. Yes. And I remember for me coffee is like a ritual. So after lunch especially, I pause and I need to have my coffee. So I wanted to create that space as this place that we stop and we reconnect. Beautiful. And then the third part was to launch the new product. So it was the reveal. And it was more like minimal, very white, bright, like a laboratory in the future, the future of coffee. like launching the super special product they were launching, which was 100 % coffee.

24:23So the briefing was 100 % coffee, came from a meditative space that you had for five days, and then you create a coffee meditative, like you create the whole meditation as well within the space that you created. And that was just like everywhere, every press, everyone was talking about it. And it still is, that you say, You want to create space that can people be talking forever, right? And then I think you managed to do that with Lavazza. Just like incredible, incredible. And I think retail space, there are more and more going to that direction where you can create space that is not just about the product, what is about the experience and how you make them feel.

25:05And the memories. And the memories they can stay. Wonderful. beautiful. And then like, because we talk about this project and then we, of course, after when you launched, there was just so many headlines on press and magazines talking about this project. How do you feel when you see your work being featured in magazines like AD, when you see that people want you to interview, you want to talk? How, first of all, how do you feel about it? and how do you still stay humble through so much headlines and talk about work? Because I think it's not easy as we grow in our career to keep grounded and knowing you with the huge success that you have right now, you're very grounded.

25:58So you don't even talk like if someone is meeting you today, you're never going to say, oh, I'm a Jana Vasconcelos. I'm an interior designer and architect. I have won so many prizes. I've been on the cover of IAD magazine. You just don't. So how do you keep so humble and so grounded with seeing so much success? Because it's not everyone. I'm saying this because it's very unique. I have a feeling that I'm starting. I have these feelings. I always feel that I'm starting, that I have so much to learn, that I have so much to do. I'm hungry about what I do in a way that is almost part of me. So it's my purpose.

26:45I feel that I was born to do what I do. So for me, it's not that I don't care. I'm very happy when I do something that has an impact. but what the best feeling is that I feel that I'm mean and what I wanted to communicate was communicated and the biggest feeling is that in a way it affirmed that I was really mean to do what I do. That's what is important for me. The sense that I was supposed to do what I'm doing. It's not the recognition and the buzz around your work. Not at all. It's more about your purpose. My purpose. When one of my works is recognize it, in a way, I reconnect more. With you and then probably your childhood, your grandmother house.

27:52Everything. It's like, oh, I'm in the right path. I'm in the right way. I'm doing what I was supposed to do. That's all. That's what matters. And becoming a mother, it's changed the way you used to think about architecture, interior design. How motherhood adding to your work, your vision, your purpose? Well, I was a mother quite young. How old you were? I was 23. Oh, super young, yes. Yes, really recent 23. So for me, motherhood, it was very important. I'm Aquarius, I'm heir. And I could be like, this sense of freedom took my focus. And the motherhood bring me a ground and a purpose. And of course, I'm very focused.

29:01I grew my career very strategic. But the motherhood bring me a sense of responsibility. Beautiful. So it was really helped me to be more focused, to ground my roots where I was born, because I choose to raise him in Belo Horizonte. I could be like traveling everywhere because my career started to be international quite a long time ago, but I kept living in Belo Horizonte to raise him. So it was a sense, and it was important, because I think when we have deep roots, we can grow more. So true. This was very important for me in many ways, not in only the professional way. So when we have to think about our roots, we have to honor where we come from, family and place.

30:02So I really love where I come from. So you never leave this behind independently of where you're going, internationally speaking? No, and I think this can bring more authenticity to the work. It's not about trends. It's about our truth. And spirituality plays a big part in everything that you do as well, right? Yes. Yes. How do we bring spirituality into architecture and interior design? I meditate. And the projects come. So it's all about the meditation. I love that. I love that. And then, because of your words, there's a lot of egos we know, like architecture, interior design. And it's also a very, I would say, competitive environment, especially when you get out of Brazil and internationally.

31:00So there's a lot of professionals out there. But still, you made it to make your name very distinctive from everyone else. And how that feels for you? I feel that I'm starting. I love that. I do feel that. Which is beautiful. I feel there is so much to explore, so much to learn, so much to do. So I have to evolve in many ways. I'm always hungry for getting to be a better person, a better professional. So I don't see like this. Yeah, no, but neither you don't see that because the one thing is like the way people see it and then how you're seeing it is what matters the most. Yes. Because that's what's giving you the courage and the passion to continue to want to continue to be.

31:56I started rather than someone that has already achieved and got into a point that, oh, I already achieved all my goals. I never change the way I treat people, for example, that work with me. 20 years ago, I graduated 20 years ago. So I never change. I remember my first employee 20 years ago and my team now. I'm so connected to them. I never put myself as if I knew much more because I exchange a lot with them. Even if they are very new, like fresh, I always exchange. I like to listen to their ideas. So I'm very open to. That's the good leadership. That's called a very good and intelligent leadership because you're putting yourself in a place of, you know, you not know everything.

32:49You're having a team. I didn't know everything. Yeah, which is beautiful. And I'm not every leader that can be like that. And I love my team. Yes. I'm very happy. I know them very well. So they're amazing. If there's one piece of advice that you would give for, you know, young girls out there, they want to pursue a career of being an interior design and architect, what would be the one advice that you would give? I think find authenticity. Authenticity. Okay. I think it's the most important in a creative career because it's very easy to follow what people are looking for. But if you just do that, you are just going to be one more and you are not going to make an impact, any difference.

33:43And probably be resilient as well. Right? Yes. Because sometimes people see success, but success comes with authenticity, but also a lot of resilience, right? Because it's not going to be like an easy path. It wasn't fast. It wasn't fast. But of course, it was a flow. As I said before, I love what I do. So it was never heavy, but I was resilient. I was focused. I was strategic. I waited the right time for so many things to act. so you keep going and keep believing and keep believing and having the faith yes you i you know i'm a big fan as i said at the beginning and i love to see that you position yourself as continuous as someone that has achieved so much but see yourself as i'm just starting and this is the beautiful way of you know positioning yourself just like you oh you what That seems like, honestly, I love you to bits.

34:50I'm a big fan. And guys, if you don't know Juliana Wax yet, make sure you just go to her pages and research about her. Because it's like, it's breathtaking everything that she does and creates. Ju, thank you so much for being here with me today. It was such an honor. I love to hear more about her story. And I'm very proud. Thank you. I'm very proud of you. so beautiful to be here thank you very beautiful and for everyone that is listening to us today i hope you have enjoyed this conversation if you're not following us yet make sure you do spotify youtube amazon and apple play and uh i see you on our next episode and then thank you so much to stay with us thank you thank you