S6 Ep 5 | You Can Have It All, Just Not at the Same Time Ft. Georgia Dayton | Beyond Marketing, The Podcast

0:04Welcome to Beyond Marketing, the podcast. I'm Maira Genovese. I'm the founder and CEO of Emigin Power, an integrated market agency. Today, we're joined by incredible and inspiring women working at the intersection of PR, brands, storytelling, and culture relevance. Someone who has built her career around empowering women through honest conversation and community. With over 10 years of experience in PR, Georgia Dayton is the co-founder of Made by Mamas, a platform and a podcast that's been running for over eight years and has become a trusted, no-dodiment space for women navigating motherhood, identity, and career.

0:46In this episode, we're going to go beyond marketing, as usual, to explore her journey, the purpose behind her work, and what has modern leadership looks like when it's shaped by real life. So welcome to Beyond Market in the podcast. Did I pronounce your name correctly? I'm always struggling with my Brazilian accent. I like it how you say it, actually. It sounds boring when I say dated. Thank you so much for being here today. So what a pleasure to have the opportunity to talk to you. We've met by accident, but I don't believe in accident, maybe by purpose. Yeah. At the lunch was last year we went to that.

1:28Georgia Dayton:It was last year. It was wet and rainy, so it must have been the winter. Yes. And then we just have like a very nice conversation and here we are. It's always good when you sit next to someone that you can have a proper conversation with at lunch. Exactly. So, George, again, thank you so much. I think what really like for me was very exciting to have you here is just when I start listening to your podcast and follow you on Instagram, I kind of related a lot with you. And I think that's all about you being relatable, especially with women that. Yeah. It's a mother, but also has a career. And then I was fascinated by your journey and how you have shifted from corporate to a podcast and still continue to be that inspiring woman that is still, you know, have the success with the podcast, but also being a great mom.

2:26So talk about your journey, how does shift work and why it's changed and what was the purpose of your incredible Be To Mamas podcast?

2:35Georgia Dayton:Yeah, so I started working in PR when I was about 19. So I was really young and I just loved all of the like glamour. I love, you know, I used to host the Evian Suite at Wimbledon. And I loved all of that side of things. And I always, you know, I really enjoyed work. But, you know, I just sort of ticked along like, you know, how it is, like sort of moving up, moving around, doing various different bits and pieces. And then when I fell pregnant, I was only 26. So I was quite young. And I definitely wasn't really established in my career. Like I've been, you know, working for maybe six, seven years.

3:18Georgia Dayton:But, you know, I didn't really know where I would go from where I was then. I was just enjoying all of the exciting parts of working in PR. And my husband used to play football. So we used to move around a lot, which was really fun. But when I fell pregnant, he moved to the countryside, so the Cotswolds. And I realized that my whole identity was working in beauty and fashion and all of this. and then it was taken away from me and I thought oh gosh like who am I now because I always had my job to talk about people were always interested like oh wow you get to go to this party oh wow you get to go to fashion week you're trying these products and then suddenly I met a baby group and I'm like oh um I just went to the gym this morning and I put the baby in the crash and just realized I just didn't have your own me anymore um and I happened like again hopefully not by chance and it was on purpose I met Zoe who's my co-host on Made by My Mummers and she also had a similar um I guess background she actually worked in radio and tv and her identity was very much in her job so when she had to move to the Croswells as well we both felt exactly the same and we both felt like there wasn't really a space online at that time this is like 10 years ago where you could talk about wanting to be a really good mum without it being boring or mumsy or considered bad for your career um and also say but I still want to be really successful so we were always having these conversations and then the podcast sort of came about from that and we just started having chats just about how we felt real life and it's evolved over the years and now we you know we have a recruitment company for parents I still do lots of PR consulting work with lots of brands and it all has that same real honest authentic feel because we find from the podcast that you know a lot of parents especially don't need the glossy um they need the reality the reality yeah the vulnerability right yeah parent yeah but then they're made by mommas like you were like talking to so and then you start how did you start because normally podcasts you just start really raw right with that probably I don't know if you guys had a big production yeah straight away or not so how how was the first episode and how did actually motivated you guys to okay this is actually working and this might be our purpose here to inspire and to empower all the women especially the the parents one that they can do both they can be both so how how that mentality and understanding and purpose came to fruition when it started?

6:31Georgia Dayton:Well, we first started with an Instagram page and we were talking and sharing and just, you know, 10 years ago where you're just snapping pictures. The time podcast wasn't a big thing at all. Yeah, no. And then there were a few people who had podcasts. So I think Anna Williamson had a parenting podcast and Zoe was a guest on that podcast. All right. and she came away and she said we should do that like we can we're you know we're good together we have really good chats all we need to do is record what we talk about interview people we've both got really good contacts and even then you know podcast is one of things they were just a hobby really um but because of our contacts we had um sort of an agreement with a production company okay so we would work on a contra deal so we didn't have to pay them for their time um that's amazing I know which would never happen now um we just went in and recorded so at first we recorded 10 um in a series and then we like released them throughout you know every week or whatever but we soon realized that the difference between talking on instagram and is very visual you know it's visual people still then liked posed pictures and all that kind of stuff whereas actually being in someone's ear you know being in their ears being with them it's almost like you're talking to a friend and so we found that our listeners were really engaged with what we were talking about and because there wasn't a lot of that around so talk about what eight ten years ago yeah so we almost became friends of theirs because we would be with them when they were like their most vulnerable times you know walking with the buggy or on their first commute back to work after having a baby we were there in their ears and we soon realized number one the responsibility that that brings um yeah but also how much how needed it was because it's private you know it's it's a private conversation you're in somebody's ear you're speaking directly to them um especially when it's things you know around motherhood and identity and you know all of these topics that we you know we cover um we just yeah we realized that we were really could get the message through like direct it's how we start your community right because uh i think that especially that niche about motherhood and we talk again about eight ten years ago there were not many people were talking about that and then motherhood that's kind of like my experience being a mother has always been like a taboo to talk about it like people don't feel comfortable to talk about not to talk about because we talk about motherhood but not that deep or on that side of our vulnerability you know how our struggles because there's a lot of struggles of becoming a mother especially if you're working before become a mother yeah and then how to again as you said at the beginning how to find yourself again through that new responsibility and then people tend to not talk about it they only talk about the good things about being a mother and I remember like when I had Antonio my son no one told me about what is next yeah after the baby's born and then the lack of sleep the loneliness you know the not be able even to have a shower because you know it's just you have to choose or I have a shower I have a nap or I eat yeah which one do I choose and I remember saying to my mom like why no one ever told me that why they're just told me that you know the beauty and the pretty things about becoming a mother and I think that's the beauty of you guys start doing from the beginning talk the honest reality right yeah and I hope as well that we are I think we when we first started it was a very glossy motherhood online you know everyone was post posting pictures of all three of their kids asleep in a line wearing matching outfits and we'd think what then we got into a real messy motherhood stage where everyone was talking about how hard it was and all of this and now I hope we've got to a balance where we are comfortable enough to show the really good stuff and that you're not showing off and the hard stuff and also when it comes to having conversations about being a mum especially in the workplace it's not seen as like a negative because I think there have been connotations around the word mum mumsy or I'm not just a mum um especially in the like in the world in the corporate world um and we really hope that we're empowering women now to be honest you know when they've not slept or that they've got to get back for the nativity or that they've got and it to be okay um rather than seen as choosing between home life and career.

11:44And how did you find yourself in that position of, okay, so now I got the podcast, I'm talking about it, but how you're applying what you're talking and what you're doing on your own life?

11:58Georgia Dayton:Well, in terms of work. In terms of work and being a mother. Yeah. So when I first, I had my son who is coming up to 10, I went back to work full time. um like I think a year later so I had a good year off and then I went back in full time and thought that would be okay and quickly realized that it wasn't okay and it didn't really work but I I don't know why but I always had that um confidence that if I wanted to leave because I needed to get back for something I would just say it and I think that you have to lead by example in that in you know when it comes to things like that because I was young I was only 27 so I had people who were around me a lot older than me maybe more senior than me who didn't have children didn't understand that you know I had other responsibilities now as well and I just looked at people you know who were junior to me in the team looking up to me as a mom and an inspiration and I thought I can't pretend you know I can't be a swan at work I can't pretend everything is fine and then secretly you know I'm swimming away underneath I need to be honest and so yeah from day one really I was really honest and I was honest with you know people that I worked with that it's it is difficult and and I wasn't going to come back and just be exactly how I was before and it was going to take a little bit of time because I didn't want those people who hadn't had kids yet to think oh it's fine you just drop back in and you know you're absolutely yourself I mean I really wanted to lead by example um when it came to motherhood and then leading by example is how you now with the podcast you become with this incredible like empowerment platform because there's a big community that follows you guys how do in terms of now your responsibility because then you said that you felt responsible when you went back to work on being honest about you know that was not easy to go back to work and to become a mother but then you managed to do that but now you went to a different scale where the podcast you have a huge community so how do you find that because it's a huge responsibility it is a huge responsibility and I think sometimes people in this space like influencer space and podcasters and you know just you know influencers and creators out there don't realize how much of a responsibility that we do hold um and definitely when it comes to motherhood that we we really have to practice what we preach you know it's a very good we really do and zoe and i are both really transparent when it comes to how we juggle work and home life and you know career and how difficult it can be and that the conversations that you have are not always comfortable um especially I think if you're employed I think if you're an employee it's really difficult and I'm honest like you know I work for myself I am and I talk about that and I say listen I know I'm privileged in that I can you know go to the nativity and I can go to the sports day and I can go to the doctor's appointments because I don't have anyone to answer to I still have to have uncomfortable conversations with clients and producers and all of that definitely but I do understand that it's not as hard as if you are as if as if you're an employee like my husband for example he works in a corporate the corporate world now in a very male dominated environment and although he's not you know on the podcast or you know involved at all I say to him you have to be vocal like you have to be somebody who is practicing what I preach yeah because you're my husband yeah because you're my husband and if you know we're trying to create the change and show people that you can have both and you know it's not always going to be easy but we have to be like actually out there doing it and and does he is he doing it he actually is yeah I mean he's quite lucky that he's got quite a few um females around him at work who definitely understand and yeah I mean I make sure that he has to go and pick up from gymnastics or and he says it as he leaves you know gets up and says sorry guys I'm off I'm going to collect from gymnastics or I'm not missing football tonight I want to watch or whatever it is that is good and it's not a negative because that's the thing This is lead by example.

16:48Yeah, because I think a lot of people assume that when you become a parent,

16:55Georgia Dayton:you give away a little bit of your ambition or your drive to succeed. But actually, I don't know about you, but I became way more ambitious when I became a role. Way more ambitious, because it's not just more about me. It's about the family that I am building with my husband and now having a kid. Exactly. It's the sense of responsibility. For me, it became higher, but also the drive to make it happen and to become inspiration for him. Exactly. At the same time, because, you know, I've, you know, as you, I've worked a lot. And then when Antonio was about a year is when I started my own business, because before I was employed.

17:33And then starting a new business, I thought that we'll have much more balance of life. but then when I realized that was actually the opposite because I was the only one at that time trying to set up a business and there was no option I had to make it happen yeah and uh and that required a lot of my time and juggling between being a mother but also starting a new business and I was traveling a lot and then today Antonio is 11 years old but I can see that everything I have done in the beginning when he was little did not impact on him and actually today he looked at me with so much you know he's proud but also he's inspired and I love that his

18:19Georgia Dayton:mentality now of daddy and mom has to work so both it's not just a man that needs to provide and I can sometimes hear conversation with friends say no my mom and my dad they both work and we've working so it it's good to start changing that mindset yeah that oh when I'm a woman become a mother she needs to stop working and the man that has to provide yeah I don't know what your upbringing was like but I always had um in the back of my mind my mum wasn't a career woman like she wasn't at all she worked a little bit but not till I went to secondary school she was always there um I've got a great relationship with her and I always had that in the back of my mind and I always had a slight bit of guilt that I wasn't doing that how she did but now like you said you know Axel's 10 it's cool you know it's cool like it's really cool yeah and do you think like with your platform do you have that responsibility on using your voice and your experience to say to parents that it's possible to do both definitely um yeah I mean a 100 % and we well we really try to be transparent with how hard it is and that being a business owner or you know working for yourself isn't always the answer because I think like you say people think oh you know it'd be much easier to work for myself because then I'm my own boss it's not it's not guys it's not but it's possible but it's not the easy way out um and I think we are seeing a shift in like lots of businesses really seeing the benefit of employing parents um and you know like all of this stuff where you've got like fractional cmos and then you know they're just coming in for a couple of days and oh there's a there is a movement a hundred percent because you can get people who have got like that lived experience and just because they've got you know caring responsibilities it doesn't mean they're not going to be good at their jobs especially Like when we talk about big corporation and big companies, and I've been that before, it's when a woman becomes pregnant, they immediately invalidate it.

20:34Yeah. Which is really sad. Invalidate in the sense, oh, she will come back, but she's never going to be the same. She's never going to be able to give for the 100 % that she's giving.

20:43Georgia Dayton:Yeah. So immediately it's just like, okay, it's coming back, but that's it. So it is not going to be the one that will give the opportunity to actually to grow, which still happens at this day. We did a podcast, It Always Stayed With Me, a few years ago. And it was all around like careers and people sort of sharing what happened. and there was one listener who wrote in and she said that she her boss had sort of cottoned on to the fact that she might want to get pregnant at some point and he used to get her to do a vodka shot every day when she came into work yes this was only a few years ago this wasn't 20 years ago 30 years ago this is still happening now um because he wanted to check that she wasn't pregnant oh my god i know and and the worst thing is you hear those stories so much still so we do think we're making a big shift but stuff like that is still happening and i think that's why we really need to change and talk about parents mums with ambition and that we are still really ambitious to change that narrative no 100 % and then like and I think it's like as for you like for me as being a business owner starting my business when my son was literally born it's when I had the idea yeah some of you know my employees they see that I've I'm a mother but also I'm a business owner and then I have to do a lot of leadership around the team around me traveling a lot and I love that sometimes there's like employees of mine that they come to me and say I'm looking to have a baby do you think I will be able to continue to work here and having the baby because you have such an inspiration but I wanted to make sure that if I do if it would be okay for you and I was like oh my god this is it's like I love the fact that they come to me and then And I love to empower them to just go for it.

22:50Just like go for it. So I have one that is pregnant now. And then throughout the whole process, we've been very close. And now she's pregnant. And I'm so excited for her. And just like, just go have the baby. Take the time that you need. And when you're coming back, you're going to continue to grow as you're growing right now. And then your role is always going to be here. And nothing is going to change in terms of career progression. And I think that's the narrative of what we need to change.

23:16Georgia Dayton:Yeah, exactly. I know I mean you know there are lots of stay-at-home mums who are really happy as well and that's what they want to do and that is absolutely totally fine but I think they're really yeah we just need to change the negative connotations that come with being a working mum and I think you're right so there's there are you know women that they want to have a baby and then that's it they wanted to stay home they wanted to be and it's absolutely fine yeah but I think the ones that wanted to continue to you know to be successful in their career is that one we needed to be honest about it yeah but at the same time empowering then and I think you guys are doing this this brilliant tell me more about the recruitment company that you guys create this was on the back of the podcast yeah um I mean like Zoe and I neither of us have recruitment background at all and we still are not recruiting people you know we've got people who do that for us but we were just having these chats like I said you know on the podcast and we you know we quite often get stories from the listeners and we realized how huge a topic career is when people become a parent like whether it's because they get made redundant or they're worried that their employers won't understand or whatever it is and so we were asked I think it was first it was a startup baby brand they were looking for a cmo and obviously i've worked in pr marketing for years and i was like oh yeah i'm sure i'll be able to find someone but they really wanted them to be a mother or a father because it was for a baby brand so they were like you know we really need them to understand like the reality so you know we put them together and that was great then it happened again this time for a beauty brand and someone said you really should charge for that service because you're recruiting you're sort of connecting people and so that's sort of how it started and it was all very ad hoc at first you know it would just be a brand that we might be working with and you know we would be brought in to talk about how to empower mums in the workplace and then we'd save the service that we offered and we'd sort of do it like that and then um nbm careers were sort of born on we have employed mums who um have recruitment backgrounds and they do the recruiting now we match um we match our sort of database of candidates with employers who we know treat people well and treat them and treat them like people because i think there's lots of noise about flexibility in the workplace but actually flexibility is flexible it's not you know eight till four or four days a week it's different for everybody so all the employers that we work with they have a different um there's a different meaning behind flexibility so for some of them it's like we still need the person to work full time we still want them in the office enough but listen we're human beings and we understand you know there's a level of understanding that if you need to work from home sometimes you do and if you need to leave at three o 'clock on occasions you do and that is that's their flexible working and then we've got other businesses that we work with who say oh you know you set your hours and you work around your kids and that's their level of flexibility so the recruitment company is a real tailored approach to recruitment and a lot of the businesses that we work with are so pleased with the candidates because they're people that otherwise would maybe not be in the workplace anymore you know they're people who maybe had really big careers that they couldn't go back to but they are getting that level of experience in a person for a couple of days a week or you know remote working or just whatever it is so it is working and it's allowed like it's allowing like mums to have an option um that they can go back to work and do you how do you select the business that you wanted to work with or do they approach you guys or you do a bit of both yeah a bit of both um it started off businesses that we knew okay so that we knew the ceos we knew that you know we knew the mds so that if they were good people and they got it, we'd kind of be all right.

27:43Georgia Dayton:Now it's a bit of both. People come to us, but we do a bit of this, like a, what do you call it? Yeah, a bit of, and sort of work and work out what the sort of culture is. And I know you can't, you don't know a culture until you're there. You're there, 100%. And people can make fancy presentations around culture, but it's always actually what's going on. What's in the business. Yeah. But yeah, we do try to speak to other people who work there, get a general feeling for how the business is run. And in general, do you think that is when you look around business wise, like especially with the companies that you're working with, do you think is that a chance that we are kind of changing a little bit the mindset of business owners or big corporations around working moms?

28:36Georgia Dayton:Definitely. And I think there are policies being put in place in like, you know, finance businesses and insurance companies. But I don't know if it's trickled down just yet. It is happening. But from where we from where we are, it's mainly retailers, marketing companies, you know, those sorts of businesses at the moment. And we're hoping to see a shift. Do you guys do workshop in like companies to kind of educate them? Yes, we haven't been in the past. We've done like a few bits and pieces, but it is something we're going to focus on now for sure. If you have to tell one challenge of yours of, you know, being a mother, but also, you know, being a successful in your career, what will be the three challenges that you would say that you have faced yourself?

29:29Georgia Dayton:wearing different hats um going from you know work mode straight into mom mode with no you know no separation i think that's the i think that's the most difficult thing for me it's like your mind never quite switches off and in the middle being a wife as well right yeah what would you say my husband's always say that so you always say that's the difficult between work and you know and Antonio but what about me oh maybe that's the challenge because uh yes because it's it's it's the challenging of changing hats 100 but at the same time I don't know how you feel about the people that's working with you I've tried always to lead everything with a smile even if I wanted to smile but not just because I wanted to be fake it's just because I think it's important to even throughout my challenge that my smile is still there and be grateful for the good and for the bad and for the challenge and then but at the same time be very vulnerable when something is happening like my son had to do like I had appendicitis when he was six years old and then there was like a busy week for me traveling so I have to stop everything of course because I have to be with him so and then when I went through those big challenge of being a mother and so how to stop everything and say now the hat I'm going to wear is just going to be the only hat for the time being yeah it's being a mother and then be completely disconnected to that and trust that they will do the job because now this is the hat that I have to wear because it's like shifting hats but understand when yeah you only have to wear only one hat for that period yeah and that will be okay that doesn't mean you're letting go but for now that's my focus yeah that's true yeah I think as well in terms of like wearing different hats you're in chapters aren't you because you might have a part of the year where it is just work yeah and that's okay and that's fine and that's what you've got to do but then you you have you know when it changes you can just wear yeah and then when you can you do both yeah but it is which is normally right it is the norm it's the norm exactly the normal what would say like what is your purpose like what do you want to gain for like now you know because i know you're back on your PR consultancy and then it's a beauty and fashion yeah it was now i do quite a lot of like parenting brands and stuff that's amazing obviously obviously yeah i think like in terms of purpose it's really for me around community building storytelling I think in this world where AI and all of that is coming in for everything I do is even more important to have the real human connection whether that be for brands that I work with in building communities in having that relationship between consumer and brands having the right storytellers telling their story it's that whether it's on the podcast is real stories doing live events meeting people it's the real life it's the real life yeah do you think ai it's because i love that you mentioned about ai so do you think ai will change how we how you guys connect with parents or do you think is going to help or you're seeing this as more an opportunity to bring the as you said the human connection even more yeah I think it's so difficult isn't it because you know there's so much scaremongering around you know jobs not being there anymore because of AI all of that kind of stuff and anyone that I speak to wants to use AI as a tool so like we'll have you know it's great for when you're doing a podcast and you need to do some research you can get you know get your research done quicker and all of that kind of stuff but how we connect with parents the whole thing is authenticity it's like real it's real connection whether that be online or in real life and I think with AI we're only gonna see people wanting human connection more because that will be what stands out I agree and then for you what is what do you when I talk about responsibility because you because of the community you guys be uh what is the message that if you could give advice for women that are trying to get pregnant but it's still with the fear of would I be able to go back to continue my career or for mothers that are now had had the babies but are struggling on understanding what is the right time for me to go back or with the fear that they're never going to go back to to the workspace what will be your three pieces of advice I think number one you can have it all but not at the same time so you can definitely have your career you can definitely have your kids you can definitely have a social life you can definitely be into your wellness but probably not all at the same time so there's always going to be a point where you have to give up one thing one piece of the pie slightly so I think that is always good to have in your mind that don't set that unrealistic goal that you're still going to have every single part because I don't think that that's possible um number two that it will always work out because it has to I think that's always my in absolutely everything I do if I'm worried about something I just have to tell myself it will always work out because there is no other option so there we go um and number three I just think if you're you know worrying about juggling a career and motherhood that already tells me that you're a good mum because you care and that you're somewhere in your career and that you're you know you've got ambition because again you care if you wasn't worried about it then it wouldn't be a question and you wouldn't it wouldn't be anything so I think yeah does that make sense yeah no 100 % and I agree totally with you on the number one because it can never be 100 % because I just really don't want people think that I am 100 % in everything I do as much as I tried and I've and I put a lot of pressure on me in the past that I had to be 100 % in everything yeah but one day I had to realize that it's impossible to be to be 100 % so sometimes you just need to you're going to have to give a little bit in that and that and that it's okay because in the end everything is going to be fine it will be fine it will be fine so thank you so much for being here you're like such an inspiration and I really hope that you continue that journey on empowering women to show them that it is possible and using your platform to put together this incredible community I'm a you know since with Matt I became a big fan of her show and I'm so happy that you're here today.

36:42So thank you so, so much. Thank you. It's been great. And thank you so much for everyone that has been here today listening to us. And I hope you got inspired by the incredible Jordan. If you're not following their podcast and their channels, we're going to put it down here. Make sure you do. And also, please, if you're not following Beyond Marketing, the podcast, we are on Spotify, YouTube, Apple Podcasts. And now we have our own channels on Instagram, Beyond Marketing Podcast, LinkedIn. so make sure you follow all the news there on new guests and new episodes so thank you again george for being here and thank you everyone has been tuning in so i see you guys on our next episode