Allwyn UK CEO: Britain Risks Losing the National Lottery if it Doesn't Innovate

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1:16Felicity Hannah:Hello, welcome to Big Boss Interview. I'm Sean Farrington. Fliss is with me today. And every company at the moment having to modernise, adapt in many, many ways. Fliss, loads of opportunities, loads of challenges. and your guest today overseeing one of the biggest overhauls in the entertainment industry. Is that the industry we would call it? You've been speaking to the operator of the National Lottery. Yes, and it's interesting. Is it an entertainment industry? And I think she definitely would say that it is. I've been speaking to Andrea Vidler, CEO of Olwyn UK, as you say, running the National Lottery.

1:51Felicity Hannah:It took over from Camelot as the operator in 2024. and there's just been a huge amount of work behind the scenes that perhaps the people playing the games each week don't actually see. So they've replaced all the lottery terminals in shops around the country. They're upgrading the whole infrastructure and then a huge amount of the kind of technology behind the scenes, all while making sure people can still play. It's been a really, really interesting chat. We were talking about the friction of trying to grow a product that is also seen as a form of gambling. So it's overseen, for example, by the Gambling Commission and what they have to do to protect players who might be vulnerable to problem gambling, while at the same time building on the success they've had with things like instant win games.

2:35Felicity Hannah:But it was really interesting. And she's an interesting person. She's got an entertainment background and now she's moved into this quite unique role. I remember when Olwen were in the running to take it over and there was a lot of spotlight on what kind of games might be on the way if there's a different business in charge of the National Lottery. So what kind of stuff did you end up getting into because of all the innovations, as they would put it, that they brought? Yeah, well, we talk about the shift to digital that's underway, the expansion of the sort of instant win games. And as I say, some of the tensions there.

3:09Felicity Hannah:But also, Sean, the bit that really interested me was how she hopes to recreate that sense of occasion. Do you remember when the lottery launched? I think we're about the same age. I still know the numbers that I don't use anymore to this day, which is always quite scary if they came up. It was exactly that. It was sort of a Saturday night event. Everybody in the house would kind of sit around the telly. It was part of family entertainment. It's not really like that anymore, is it? and she's been talking about how she's trying to kind of modernise the National Lottery and create some of that excitement again, but also against the backdrop of not just that it's not on the telly, but that there's loads and loads of competition now, things like prize draw competitions that get advertised at you on social media and which quite often have different rules to follow to the National Lottery.

3:59Felicity Hannah:So she feels that there's a tension there and the government ought to be regulating that. Like win a big house, that sort of thing. Exactly that. Interesting. Well, fascinating. Sounds fascinating. Let's hear it then, shall we? Here is Andrea Vidler, Chief Executive of Alwyn UK, the operator of the National Lottery, talking to Fliss.

4:19Felicity Hannah:Well, Andrea Vidler, welcome to the Big Boss interview. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I want to start then by asking about your time with National Lottery. Alwyn UK has operated it since the 1st of February 2024. You've been at the head of the business for the last three years. you must have had a hell of a lot of challenges to get through from regulatory to technological. What has that time been like? Honestly, sometimes exhausting. And no, it's been, it's a fantastic honour to run the National Lottery. It is a British institution that needed a significant amount of investment. And the last two years have been very much focused on taking the reins of the operation and managing that flawlessly alongside a very full technical transformation.

5:07It's a bit like walking into a new house, but before you can start to do the things you want to do, you've got to completely replumb, do all the electrics. The plumbing needed to be sorted out. The National Lottery for many retailers hadn't had new terminals since day one, 30 years old. I think the last core gaming upgrade was in 2009. So that was in the year of the BlackBerry and their pre-iPads and streaming. So our technology needed a major overhaul. And the last two years has definitely been focused on getting those foundations right so that we can start to launch new exciting games and bring more entertainment to our players.

5:52Felicity Hannah:So when I say, what's it been like? And you say it's been an honour. Is that just polite speech for it's been exhausting? non-stop, flat out frantic. One of the things I don't think I'd realised about is I think everybody knows that the National Lottery helps support the Olympic teams and the Paralympians because they're so brilliant at thanking players for their contributions. And without National Lottery funding, we would not have had the success that we have had. But I had no idea at the scale of the National Lottery and how much society benefits from it. It was set up by John Major deliberately to fund things that government couldn't afford across arts and heritage, sport.

6:39But the community funding, 75 % of our funding is at grants of less than£20 ,000. So£20 ,000 in local community funding goes a long, long way. And I had no idea of the scale and the breadth and the depth of that investment that the£30 million a week that we raise goes into. And that is the honour bit. It is a really important role for British society. And I don't think I appreciated just the scale of that.

7:14Felicity Hannah:You've talked about a flawless takeover, but it's not actually been all that smooth, has it? You've been investigated by the Gambling Commission because you failed to deliver on the promises made during the tender process, including the speed at which you would upgrade the technology behind the National Lottery. Well, I think you're referring to one particular date. We have completed the technology upgrade within two years, two years from starting it and taking operational responsibility for many reasons. not reasons we should go into now, but reasons well beyond Allwin's responsibility or anything it could have done about.

7:54We were delayed. The start was delayed. Have we spent longer? Not if you look at the delay of the start date. So we took operational control February the 1st, 2024. And we completed the technology by February 2026. And that is a huge task. So over 30 different technological systems, hundreds of different interconnections. We've got 43 ,500 retailers. Now, every retailer has its own structure and its own way of working. Every molt is different from one another and the local convenience stores are different again. Every store has its own complexity in terms of moving a terminal and connecting it to Vodafone network.

8:48The complexity of changing every store's terminal's permanent point of sale, the complexity of new apps, new digital front end, as well as all those terminals. This is an organisation that is a national operation where every single ticket and every draw has to be flawless. And it was better to do it well than to do it too rushed and to make a mistake.

9:16Felicity Hannah:What has been the reason why you haven't fulfilled the pledge to cut standard lotto tickets to a pound rather than two? We were never, we never promised to do that. We promised to bring in innovation and create value. Our ambition is to have a portfolio of products that offer very different price points as well as different offerings. And you will have seen that new lotto launched just five weeks ago. That does redistribute the prize winnings. You now, for£2, get two draws, the chance to win twice, and we have created more millionaires. So Lotto has become a really, really fantastic game if you want to win a million.

10:04And who doesn't want to win a million? There are some people that like to chase a jackpot. And if you want to chase a jackpot, Euromillions is a bigger jackpot where the odds are higher. And next week, we will be launching Powerball, the first time that Powerball has moved outside of the States. and that will enable you to win multi, multi, multi millions.

10:28Felicity Hannah:But there were plenty of headlines, headlines that you saw saying that you were considering plans to slash the ticket price back to a pound. This was something that people kind of expected. I don't think people were expecting they wanted value. I think for two pounds, how often can you buy something now for two pounds? The price of inflation moves considerably. considerably we have products at a pound we have products at one pound fifty set for life is one pound fifty thunderball is at a pound and lotto is at two pounds but you do get two tickets two chances to win for two pounds okay one of the reasons that you you won the contract was the pledge to almost double the amount raised for good causes so from 33 million pounds a week to 60 million pounds a week by the end of the licence.

11:18Felicity Hannah:And that's a way off. That's 2034. But you're not very close. You're not increasing the amount raised at the moment. How are you planning to turn that around in eight years? As I say, we had to get the foundations right. And there was a massive technological change that needed to take place before we could start to launch these new games. We also have to develop the games with player protection in mind. So the curve of growth is not linear from one year to year 10. We see a route to getting to£60 million a week, and that's our ambition. Are you confident in that ambition? We've made good progress in the last two years.

11:59On the old technical stack, we still managed to improve from£30 million a week to£33 million a week. So I am pleased with progress so far.

12:10Felicity Hannah:How does cost of living factor into this? When people's prices go up, when inflation is high, when people are perhaps struggling with their energy bills, for example, what does that do to ticket sales? Actually, we see no evidence to date of any impact from inflation. However, as I said, we haven't put our prices up and a lotto ticket is now considerably less than the average cup of coffee. Okay, tell me then how you're going to grow the business, how you're going to achieve this ambitious target, how you're going to do it? It's a combination of having a better infrastructure so that you can launch games more quickly.

12:52How we can really get to know players is our ambition. The National Lottery was set up as a monopoly, as I said, 30 years ago. It was a very much build it and they will come. If you look at organisations like this one, the BBC itself, and how much it has evolved in the last 20 years, I remember working at the BBC in BBC Radio when there was lots of challenge around how you create a portfolio of radio stations that really complement each other and don't grow older with their audiences. we are we needed to change the national lottery portfolio of products had not changed and had not really lent into a known relationship with its individual players that is the change that we will make over the next 10 years i would like to get to a place where the majority of players are really well known if we know our players like retailers know their purchases we can target well We can give the right communication.

13:55We can understand, importantly, what passions they have and where they want the money spent that we raise. You're up in Manchester. Do you have any idea how much money has been raised for Manchester by the National Lottery? Well, actually, interestingly enough, I might not know Manchester specifically, but I certainly know that. Let me see. It's£1.2 billion. It's a massive amount and it goes into loads and loads of different community projects. Now, if I know that and I can start to share that information digitally through the app because you have registered, I absolutely know players will feel the benefit of buying lottery.

14:42Felicity Hannah:But do you think people are playing because they want to? We'll talk more about those figures shortly, actually, because I think they're quite interesting. But do you think people are playing because they want to benefit the local area? Or do you think they're playing because they fancy a flutter and they reckon that they'd quite like a million pounds, for example? They play for both reasons. Of course, people play to win. Yeah, people play to win. But we see after the Olympics a boost in lottery sales because people absolutely feel good about when they don't win. They feel good about where their money has gone.

15:12And that is a fact.

15:13Felicity Hannah:OK, but when you talk about knowing your players, innovating games, innovating the player experience, all that is intended to drive more gameplay, isn't it? You're going to grow the business by having people play more often. We would like everyone to play a little more often. Having a lot of people play a little is the sustainable growth strategy that we have. We do not have a strategy to exploit those that want to play a lot. Our strategy is to build games that attract many and everyone plays a little. But what if the growth that is likely to come isn't from careful players increasing their sensible gaming, but intense players, you know, maximum people who play a lot more increasing to dangerous levels?

16:01Felicity Hannah:How do you, because there's a tension, isn't there? And I'm curious how you ride that tension between advertising to more people to play safely and keeping people who might develop problems to a minimum. I'm sorry I'm smiling. The extreme levels and depth that are inherent within our game design really does prevent that from happening. I don't know if you play the lottery. I don't know if you buy or play gambling products. But our games are built to, if you think about a draw-based game, people buy a ticket or place their ticket on the app and then they have to wait. You have to wait for the draw.

16:45The exhilaration is very, very different from the drive that people that are addicted to gambling seek. So if you are somebody vulnerable and playing many gambling games, there is a chance that you will play a lottery game. But actually there is no evidence whatsoever that we create that problem. The new digital technology has also introduced a number of further limits. So there are limits that you set when you start. There's a cash limit that you can deposit when you start. We intervene and create friction points if we think that you've been playing for too long. We interrupt later. We have prevented duplicates to counts.

17:31The layers that are ingrained within the framework that we work with our regulator are onerous in many ways, but they are absolutely correct in creating opportunities for people to play with entertainment games, not with addictive games.

17:50Felicity Hannah:OK, Gamble Aware closed earlier this year, but in 2025 it reported there are an estimated 600 ,000 people who experience problem gambling and who take part in the National Lottery draw. Is your position that it's sort of separate to their problematic behaviour? There is a lot of evidence. We work very closely with Gamble Aware and with other addiction specialists who guide and advise us. And as I said just then, just earlier, people who have an addictive habit will seek games out. But we put in a number of preventative measures to stop them playing and to make our games less attractive to them.

18:30Felicity Hannah:You are, however, driving a major shift to digital play, up almost 10 % last year, reaching£4.1 billion. And it now accounts for more than half your sales for the first time. The number of digital players rose by a million last year, so it's over 12 million. I suppose I'm curious as to whether there's a tension there, because if people are moving their gambling online, does it take away a safety net of having to spend through an actual person in a shop? It's more frictionless. You could potentially spend more than you want. No, the digital limits are very, very clear. £500 a week. But the first time you deposit it, it's a£50 limit and you're in control of that limit.

19:12Felicity Hannah:But I mean, customers, as you say, they can set their own deposits, they can set their own spend limits in the app. But the default is£500 in deposits a week, isn't it? That's an extraordinarily high number. It depends on your own affordability. For most people, that is an extraordinarily high number. And most people do not spend anywhere near that amount. No, but most people are not problem gamers, I suppose is what I'm trying to get at. There's less than 2 % of the 30 million people that play the national lottery every year that have any indication that they have a problem. And as I say, they play considerably more elsewhere.

19:48We cannot prevent, we can limit the amount that they play. And we are doing that very, very effectively now. More effectively now, both in retail and digitally than was possible on the previous technology. You've talked about there being a delay with the national lottery.

20:06Felicity Hannah:You buy a ticket, you have to wait. Does that mean you consider that scratch cards are potentially more harmful than traditional lottery tickets? No, it's nothing to do with the harm in that sense. It is a lighter piece of entertainment that does give an instant gratification. It's also a nice treat. People love buying scratch cards for friends and as a nice lift. They are much, much smaller wins. GambleAware called them higher risk products. I can't help what GambleAware call them. I suppose I'm curious because it's clearly part of your growth strategy. You recently appointed the first director of Scratch Cards.

20:46Felicity Hannah:That role is designed to boost innovation, brands, commercial development. Last year, you launched 104 interactive instant win games just in the year. So these are more immediate. There's no weight and they're becoming more attractive, more innovative. We have a very, very small percentage of people that play a digital instant win game, Solus. It's, again, less than 2 % of our player base. The majority of our players are draw-based game players, whether they are in retail or digital. The digital play comes from players that may have just won something on EuroMillions and want to play another game.

21:28They may have just won something on Lotto and want to play another game.

21:32Felicity Hannah:Okay, Alwyn says that players identified as high risk might have lower deposits and play limits automatically applied to their account and also receive targeted advice about managing their gambling. I'm just curious, do you know what percentage of players you apply that to? All the player protection rules are applied to everybody. But when you identify high-risk players and you have lower deposits and play limits automatically applied to their account, you give them targeted advice about managing their gambling. I'm just curious to know how often that is rolled out. It's ongoing, ongoing, 24-7, 365 days a year.

22:12That is constant service and duty of care that we put in place.

22:18Felicity Hannah:OK, let's talk about one of your other major innovations coming in just a few days, actually. You're teaming up with the enormous Powerball, the US lottery. It's a very different product, isn't it, for the UK? Why have you decided that it's time to launch Powerball here? Our players and the public have been wanting to join Powerball for many years. Camelot themselves, prior to Allwin, equally wanted to launch Powerball. So delighted to have persuaded the Americans to let us join in. And the major change is that the jackpots can be worth hundreds of millions of dollars. So yes, EuroMillions is capped at the moment and the Powerball game continues to roll.

23:03Felicity Hannah:This might be one of the more obscure questions so far. There's some anecdotal evidence that weight loss drugs affect the reward centres of the brain and they mean people get less excited about other kind of reward-based things, things like gambling, like playing games. I was just wondering if you think, or if you sometimes wonder if your product might face a bit of a downward pressure from the skinny jab. Of all the things I have been worrying about over the last two years, Liz, I can assure you that is not one that has hit the top of the entry yet. So it's not something that's come up so far?