In short
Podcast Episode Summary: Big Boss Interview - Optimism over US-EU Trade Talks
Episode Overview In this episode of *Big Boss Interview*, the hosts delve into significant developments in international trade relations, particularly focusing on the recent U.S.-EU trade talks, Argentina's economic reforms, and the booming success of Disney's live-action *Lilo and Stitch* film, alongside expert insights from guests Sushma Ramachandran and Fermin Koop.
Key Topics Discussed
U.S.-EU Trade Relations
- Tariff Negotiations:
- U.S. President Donald Trump has postponed a potential 50% tariff on EU imports, extending the negotiation deadline to July 9.
- The new deadline was requested by Ursula von der Leyen, President of the European Commission, indicating a continued dialogue between the U.S. and EU.
- Market Reactions:
- The discussion highlights the volatility of U.S.-EU relations and the impact of Trump's negotiation tactics which can fluctuate between cooperation and threats.
- Lukas Super, an MEP, emphasizes the need for stability in trade relations and cautions against Trump's confrontational approach.
Argentina's Economic Strategies
- Currency Reporting Reform:
- The Argentine government is easing currency reporting rules to encourage citizens to bring $271 billion of undeclared dollars back into the banking system.
- The reforms aim to stimulate the economy but come with risks regarding money laundering and public trust in the banking system.
- Expert Insights:
- Marcello García discusses the historical context of Argentine citizens hiding money due to distrust in the government and economic instability.
- Fermin Koop notes that the government's efforts, while ambitious, face challenges in convincing citizens to trust the system again.
Success of *Lilo and Stitch*
- Box Office Performance:
- The live-action remake of *Lilo and Stitch* outperformed *Mission Impossible* at the U.S. box office, earning $341 million worldwide.
- KJ Matthews, an entertainment journalist, attributes the success to family-friendly content appealing to a wider audience.
- Industry Trends:
- Discussion around Disney's ongoing remakes of animated classics highlights both nostalgia and a push for original content as a balancing act for the studio.
- The podcast mentions that the trend of children's films performing well at the box office may not be universal across all markets.
Guest Contributions
Sushma Ramachandran (Independent Journalist, India)
- Provides updates on India's diplomatic efforts to improve its international trade narrative amid ongoing tensions and concerns regarding tariffs.
- Highlights India's attempts to negotiate trade deals under pressure from the U.S. and the complexities involved.
Fermin Koop (Reporter, Argentina)
- Shares insights on Argentina's economic climate, especially the government's measures to recover undeclared dollars and the resulting public skepticism.
- Discusses broader implications of international trade dynamics and environmental concerns in Latin America related to mining critical minerals.
Conclusion The episode illustrates the intricate balance of international trade relations, the domestic economic reforms in Argentina aimed at reviving trust in the banking system, and the entertainment industry's evolving landscape with live-action remakes. The discussions reflect the global economic climate shaped by negotiations, local policies, and cultural trends.
Key Takeaways
- U.S.-EU relations remain precarious with fluctuating tariff discussions.
- Argentina is taking steps to recover undeclared funds amidst economic challenges.
- The success of children's films in the box office reflects changing audience preferences and market dynamics.
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Listeners can tune in to *Big Boss Interview* for a deeper understanding of these pressing issues, with expert insights shaping the discussions.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
0:07This advertisement feature is paid and presented by Poland's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. When ambitious business leaders plan their next move, they look to Poland. My name is Marcin Piontkowski and I'm a professor of economics at Kozmijsk University in Warsaw. Over the past 35 years, Poland has been the fastest growing economy in Europe and it has grown into one of Europe's most dynamic economies. It's a place where stability meets opportunity, a central location connecting East and West with a workforce of over 17 million skilled professionals and a thriving R &D ecosystem supported by competitive costs and investment incentives.
0:52It's therefore no surprise that brands like Samsung, Google, IBM, Volvo and many others have invested here. They've discovered an ambitious talent pool, a hub that fuels innovation and a reliable partner for the long-term growth. Whether you're optimizing supply chains, building new research centers or expanding your global presence, Poland offers the infrastructure, talent and trust that global companies demand. Poland, where businesses don't just grow, they thrive. Find out more at polandyourplacetogrow.com.
1:56Hello and welcome to Business Matters here on the BBC World Service with me Rahul Tandon. Coming up in the programme we'll be looking at attempts by Argentina's government to get people to give the dollars back that are under their mattresses. We'll be explaining to you what critical minerals are and why they're so important and who has control of them at the moment. And why kids films like Lilo and Stitch are doing so well at the box office this year. To guide us through the program, we have Shushma Ramachandran, independent journalist, columnist with the Tribune newspaper in Delhi. Good morning to you in Delhi, Shushma, how are you?
2:33I'm fine, thank you, Rahul. How are you? Not too bad, not too bad at all. Now, it's only a few weeks ago, isn't it, when we were looking at those tensioning relations between India and Pakistan. Just give us a sense now, things have calmed down. But when you're writing your columns, when you're looking at the papers, are those stories still center stage? Yes, of course. Absolutely. I think those are the biggest stories, apart from trade and tariffs. I think right now India has sent about seven delegations, parliamentary delegations all around the world to about 33 countries trying to present its side of the story.
3:12There was a lot of criticism here that India had lost control of the narrative and Pakistan had been able to present its point of view. So you have these seven delegations and most of which, at least half of which are led by opposition party leaders. And the idea is to present a united front, which it certainly has. Whether this will succeed in presenting India's point of view, one doesn't know. But they're certainly making a big effort. Okay, we will keep track of that also with us, Furman Cooper, reporter on environmental and climate change in Argentina. Something that strikes me over the last six, seven months, probably we ourselves haven't reported as much on these stories as maybe we did previously.
3:55Are you getting a sense of that, do you think, Furman? Yeah, definitely. Well, great to be on the show again. Thanks for the invite. I think the geopolitics of the world, what's happening with tariffs, what's happening in the U.S., That's all taking an impact on the overall discussions regarding climate. We have a big moment later in the year in November, which is the UN Climate Summit, which is due to happen in Brazil. And I think that will shape up the discussions. And we also have the BRICS Summit coming up in Brazil. And I think what we are seeing in the world is kind of lost momentum, I guess, that the narrative is changing regarding climate.
4:37We have governments that are contesting even the narrative of climate, not just the US, but we are also seeing the same in Argentina too. Yep, I think Furman is right there. One of the reasons is because we talk so much about tariffs. Let us do that. Again, we're going to spend the next seven or eight minutes looking at international trade and potential trade deals. Let's start with the EU and the US. Donald Trump spoke to the president of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, over the weekend. And following those conversations, these 50 % tariffs have now been put on hold for just a bit longer.
5:10July 9th would be the date. That was the date she requested. Could we move it from June 1st to July 9th? And I agreed to do that. And she said we will rapidly get together and see if we can work something out. We had trade discussions on Monday between the EU Trade Commissioner and the US's Commerce Secretary. So what next? The question for Lukas Super, a German MEP who's a member of the European Parliament's Committee on International Trade. Today has been a good sign, right? Because the EU and the US are once again engaging in an open dialogue. And that's the way that we in the European Union want to do it.
5:46But also, let's not forget how easily this relationship has swung from cooperation to threats of 50 % tariffs, then back. And I think someone should tell Donald Trump that stability needs more than just handshakes. We should not confuse one friendly conversation between von der Leyen and long-term civility, especially when dealing with leaders like Donald Trump, who have openly attacked our democratic norms and the EU as a partner. Shushma, it's pretty hard to keep up with what's going on, isn't it? Because it changes so rapidly. Yes, absolutely. Things are just moving very fast as far as this whole issue is concerned.
6:29It certainly is. And Furman, one of the problems, I suppose, for the markets is they look at this on a daily basis. Things are changing and it's trying to make sense of what is a negotiating tactic by Donald Trump and what actually might happen. Definitely. We are seeing those discussions all around the region. The scenario changes by the day, really, which is quite tricky for all governments to keep an eye on that, even governments that are quite friendly to the U.S., such as the case of Argentina. We actually just got the visit of the U.S. Health Secretary, Robert Kennedy Jr., who is now in Buenos Aires.
7:06But aside from talking about health, which is his key focus, they are talking about tariffs as well, because Argentina wants to reach a deal with the US to take out the 10 % tariff that we now have. Let's talk about countries striking deals because many countries are looking to do that. And while they are looking to do that, they're also looking for new trading partners. Let's talk about Vietnam.
7:34Those are the sounds of the French President Emmanuel Macron attending a state dinner in Vietnam. It's his first trip to the country He's already signed a number of deals with Vietnam. Nalphime is a Vietnamese journalist who's currently in Taipei. Today, he's signed more than 30 deals with the Vietnamese. They signed some really big agreements with the Vietnamese airlines, Vietjet, and also a few government agencies to set up satellite cooperation as well as some projects in defence area. $10 billion worth of deals, it looks like, have been struck already. Is this a sign, President Macron, of course, his first visit to Vietnam, that the country is looking for new trade partners, is looking to move a little bit away from the US because of the threats of tariffs that Donald Trump has talked about?
8:21The threat of reciprocal tariffs that Trump announced last month actually made Vietnam and France and other countries in Europe actually get much closer to each other. This is the first time that Macron visited Vietnam. He became president of France in 2017, yet it took him nearly eight years to visit Vietnam. So I think that trade tension between the US and Europe and between the US and Vietnam actually prompt him to make this visit, not only to Vietnam, but also to Indonesia and Singapore. Shushma, we heard there from Nafam what's happening in Vietnam. Of course, Delhi is pretty busy nowadays and always has been over the last few years.
9:01Lots of people coming through trying to get access to that Indian market. Yes. So, in fact, a lot of activity is happening between the U.S. and India. There was a delegation which had gone last week, led by officials, as well as the Commerce Minister had gone there. He had met the U.S. Commerce Secretary, Howard Latwick, twice. And apparently, I mean, they're in a great hurry to tie this up before July 9th, when the suspension of the additional tariffs ends. Even now, though, there's a baseline 10 % tariff. But as far as India is concerned, you know, there are reports that they have offered zero-duty tariff for a lot of American imports, probably even up to 60 percent of the imports that are coming into India.
9:49We have to remember that America is quite upset because out of the, you know,$130 billion worth of trade between the two countries there, India has around a$40 billion trade surplus. And America, of course, is trying to get into certain areas, trying to get market access into areas that India has normally considered sacrosanct, which are agriculture and dairy. And that's why, you know, you'll find Donald Trump talking about the high tariff levels, which are there in the case of dairy as well as agriculture. They may not be there in other areas. Dairy, of course, India is the world's largest milk producer right now.
10:31But the fact is that the average herd size in India for every farmer is just about two or three cows, two or three cattle. Whereas in America, they have each farmer would have hundreds of cattle. So these are very, very small farmers. And therefore, there is a need to protect this sector. There's a fear that, you know, America would like to dump its surplus production into India. and so there is going to be apparently, you know, the dairy sector is going to be protected probably. It is really an issue that goes to the heart of India, doesn't it, with so many people still working in agriculture.
11:10We see President Macron going to Vietnam, striking deals, looking to strengthen that, increase France's trading partners. Within Latin America, is there a thought now that the countries should trade more with each other whilst they face the prospects of some tariffs from Donald Trump? Well, the economy of many of the countries in the region are quite similar. So they usually look to the US, Europe, or even Asia, particularly China, trade partners. We do have a lot of competition in the region over whether the countries can trade with the US and with China simultaneously. And this is something that we actually covered in the show in the past, but it's growing the tension over countries feeling the need that they have to pick between the U.S.
11:58and China, which is part of the rhetoric that the U.S. wants to push countries into. Some countries are trying to find a sweet spot between the U.S. and China, but it's quite, quite difficult. We just had the CELAC China Summit in Beijing with many Latin American governments, such as Brazil and Chile there, who they travel to Beijing. And we saw strong signs of support towards trade with China. But we also have countries that are siding with the US. So it's kind of a mixed bag at the moment. It certainly is, isn't it? That's a good phrase for the world, I think, generally, in terms of who's going with China and who may be going with the US.
12:38Yes, we heard Shushma there talking about that Indian delegation that is there trying to negotiate with Howard Lutnik and the others in the Trump administration. So how is India doing that? Well, let's get a sense now from Ajay Shirvastava. He's the founder of the Global Trade Research Initiative based in New Delhi. I will not negotiate under any pressure. Right now, he is getting country to negotiate under threat. When I look at US and UK trade deal, I see UK has given much more than they have got. So it's totally one sided deal. And that's what Trump wants. These are not normal trade deals he's negotiating.
13:15But the problem is he can do that because the US is the world's biggest economy. Even if you look at the negotiations between India and the US at the moment, it seems that the US is going to get a much better deal than India. I agree with you. In fact, I think India-US deal may be the repeat of the US-UK deal or it could be worse. I think we should not negotiate under the threat unless there is a balanced deal. It's not a trade deal. I mean, there's no war and there is no victors and vanquished. It's between two equal partners. If that's not happening, it's not a trade deal. It's something else.
13:50And we should recognize that. We should try to minimize the damage. Ajay Shivastava, who's a former trade negotiator for India. The problem is, Shushma, that those relationships aren't equal, are they? The fact is India is an emerging economic power, but the US is the world's biggest economic power. So it holds more chips than India does. Yeah. But the fact is also that, you know, we have to accept the fact that India, the Indian government has been raising import tariffs for the last few years. And a lot of economists and economic writers like myself have been criticizing this increase because it's a bid to protect the domestic industry.
14:30But domestic industry in many areas is quite strong enough to face the competition. The government doesn't need to do that. And therefore, a lot of people have commented that perhaps this is, you know, Trump's threats may force the Indian government to bring down tariffs in areas where, you know, they had been raised needlessly. And I think the review that is going on where they are bringing down the tariffs are in areas where we really didn't need to push up the import tariffs so high. Even in the agriculture sector, some agricultural economists are saying, you know, we can allow market access in some areas.
15:09I mean, there could be nuts or certain grains. I mean, even in rice, for instance, even if we allow U.S. rice into the country, there's going to be no competition with Indian rice. So there are areas, even in agriculture, where they can be opening up. So I don't think that and I don't think that the Indian deal is likely to be as as negative as has been pointed out by your expert. Our trade diplomats have been used to dealing with these kind of things for years, especially at the WTO, where India is normally, you know, stood out alone in trying to protect its domestic industry. So I don't have that kind of pessimistic outlook on this trade.
15:52Well, you are always optimistic when you're on this programme, Shushman. So there we go. Continuing that theme there, the WTO, the World Trade Organisation. Let's return to a story that we've looked on at the programme before. Plans in Argentina to get people to put their undeclared dollars back into the banking system. Furman, where are we with this now? Yes. So we actually spoke about this, I think it was a couple of weeks ago or three weeks ago, and there's been a few developments since then. When we spoke, the rules weren't in place yet. Now we actually have a program from the government, which basically enables people to get into the economy on a maximum, I would say,$50 ,000 without getting a lot of controls from the tax bureau in Argentina.
16:38So it means that, let's say, you want to buy a car or you want to wire money to someone. If it's less than 50 ,000, you won't get a lot of supervision or inspections from the tax bureau. However, this has been done through a presidential decree, not actually by Congress. So most tax experts are warning people that they should wait to do anything until the Congress actually signs something. And this is what the government is trying to do now. They are trying to go to take that measure specifically into the Congress and try to make it an actual law. So the main risk would be future governments coming in and saying this wasn't valid and chasing people for something they did with the previous administration.
17:29There we go. Sounds still quite difficult. Let's bring in Marcello García, America's director at Consultancy Horizon Engage. And why is Javier Millet doing this? Is it because there is a huge amount of money? What sort of sums of money could we be talking about, Marcello, in terms of what people are hiding under their mattresses? Yeah, good evening. Look, to give you a sense of dimension. We're talking about$250 billion, which is half the GDP of Argentina or a GDP of Greece that Argentines keep away from the tax authorities. We call it under the mattress because since we were kids, we just hide something under the mattress.
18:15But this could be safety boxes. This could be in the financial system abroad, just not declared to the tax authorities. So this is a huge amount of money that if you put that back into the system, then the economy would be a whole different game. But there is a reason why people hide it, why they don't want it in the system. What is that main reason? Well, the reason is that over the last half a century, around six decades, Argentines have suffered and we all have a collective trauma about this. We have suffered from a lot of devaluations, a couple of hyperinflations. So very weak peso, losing to the hard currency.
18:53So Argentines got used to saving money in hard currency and keeping that away from the authorities. And some operations you can do in Argentina, like buy a house or even buy a car, you could do like under the table without declaring that. What the government is saying is that keep doing that. We want, as your expert mentioned very correctly, we want, we relax the controls and then just do it in the banking system and just get that money to feed the economy. The problem is, Furman, this is a good idea, isn't it, to try and get money back into the economy that's not been there, get people spending more.
19:32Again, the difficulty is, could it not be used for money laundering as well? Could we not see a lot of money coming into the system that, you know, is being got illegally? Correct. I'm just going to let Furman answer that first, then we'll come back to you. Yeah, no, just complimenting. I agree with Marcelo. So there's a risk definitely in there. I think the figures that we were hearing of the amount of money that people have, they are not necessarily linked to money laundering or drug trafficking. This is money that people were saving up in their homes, mainly due to distrust into the banking system, considering the previous defaults of the country, the banks keeping people's money.
20:12So there's definitely a big chunk of money that's not necessarily linked to illegal activities, but people just saving at home or wherever they can. So there's a possibility of that getting into economy and moving consumption, but that doesn't take out the risk of getting actual illegal money into the system. Shishma, I remember, how many years ago is it now in India, the demonetization? And of course, we've seen the great growth in digital India as the government there has tried to get to grips, haven't they, with the undeclared economy. How successful has it been? Well, it's difficult to say because, you know, it is an undeclared economy, as you rightly pointed out.
20:54The fact is that despite demonetization in 2017, was it 2016, I think, you know, the amount of cash in circulation, currency in circulation has actually doubled since then. This is despite the fact that the country has really gone a whole hog towards digital payments. You know, there is a huge shift towards digital payments. I mean, even if you come to India and you try and buy even vegetables from a vendor, he'll show you a mobile phone and you can make payments on that. So there's, you know, even very poor people. Plus the financial inclusion has been brought about by introducing the zero balance accounts for people.
21:37And, And, you know, you have people are able to go into banks and set up these accounts without any problems. And then also this enables the government to pass through the benefits of various subsidies that are meant for the weakest sections of the population. At the same time, the cash in circulation and the requirement of the cash economy is, you know, is still there. And it's looking at some data. It says cash to GDP ratio is about 11.5 percent. And yeah, so it is higher than most other countries. But and especially in some areas, cash is used a great deal. For instance, real estate, for some reason, is an area where you have, you know, you try and get make a transaction.
22:28and people will tell you, well, we'll pay you 50 % in cash or 10 % in cash. And people who are salaried professionals and don't have cash on hand, they're very happy when they can make a deal without having to deal with cash. It's something the government's tried to really, really clamp down on. Going back to Marcello, on this plan by Javier Mellé, is it going to work? it's difficult to say but what i can say is that it has been tried in the past and it didn't work mostly because it would take time and many years of a stable economy in which you don't have any of these upheavals that you that we regularly had in the country to make people really trust the system and put savings that they kept away of the system just because they wanted to be safe in case they need it.
23:20So I think Millet needs to prove that his political project and economic programme is here to stay for the long term. And that will require, of course, winning midterm elections, winning election in 27. It's a long path. So it's not going to work in the short term. We'll have to see in the long term. Yeah, let us see what happens. And listen, thank you so much for joining us here on the programme. And Furman, final thoughts for you. I'm not asking what's under your mattress at the moment. But, you know, this idea to try and bring some stability. Do you think Argentinians, do they have faith in the banking system?
23:56Is that still something that people look at with skepticism? I think the skepticism is still there. I would agree with Marcello. I think it's going to take a long time for that to change. We are starting with something, which is always good. Argentinians by definition I would say we are resilient because we always have to deal with these kind of challenges so hopefully there will be something different in a few years. Okay all right go and check your matches while we go to the to the news and see what you have. Underneath that right we are going to be back very very shortly in the second half of the program we're going to be talking about New Zealand's golden visa scheme the minister in charge of it is going to come on the program and tell us who's coming into New Zealand and where are they coming in from?
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26:38This is the BBC World Service, looking at a new way of thinking about prisons and prisoners. I'm Jenny O 'Collo, a forensic therapist. I want to dismantle the idea that committing a crime is the end of you. I believe that by supporting prisoners' mental health, you can make a change. It's really about assuming that the people who are locked up are human beings. In the Netherlands and Sweden, this approach is making a big difference. It really is quite an effective system, more effective than just a general prison sentence. The American model is really backwards looking. We're going to give you this many years in order somehow magically to sort of balance the pain that you've caused, whereas we need to be looking forward.
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27:22I think this is a success story for many people. I'll be exploring how they're doing it. Prison of the Mind at bbcworldservice.com slash documentaries or wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
27:39you're listening to business matters here on the bbc world service with me rahul tanden we've got shushman india we've got thurman in argentina we're going to be talking about critical minerals why are they so important and who has control of them we'll be talking about golden visas in new zealand who's coming into the country and kids movies why are they proving to be so popular at the box office after a good weekend for lilo and stitch
28:12Welcome back to Business Matters here on the BBC World Service. Going to go to New Zealand in a minute. We've got Thurman Cooper who's with us from Argentina. Shushma Ramachandran who is with us from India. We want a quick chat. I mean, I've been watching lots of the IPL for people who don't know. Shushma, it is the world's most valuable cricket league, T20 league, generating huge amounts of money, huge audiences. and, you know, when the IPL is on, it is just about the biggest entertainment brand in India now, isn't it? Absolutely, absolutely. The IPL is hugely popular over here and there's a huge ecosystem which has developed around it in terms of advertising, in terms of products and everything and especially children, of course, love it.
28:56Yeah, I know. Often it's been on at exam times, hasn't it? I know some schools were saying that the IPL shouldn't be on when children are having their exams because they don't concentrate enough, Shushma? Well, I don't know if they're going to bother to do that. But I think, but of course, the aim is that, you know, children should be free to watch the program. So the other problem is that exam times differ in different parts of India, for instance. I mean, it's different in Mumbai and it's different in New Delhi. So it's very difficult for the IPL to cater to that kind of problem. But yes, it is hugely popular.
29:34And there are so many photographs of parents going with their children in the T-shirts of the teams that they're supporting. They walk into the stadium and they take the photographs and they put it up on social media to show who they're supporting. My own grandson went to watch a match in Chandigarh recently where Virat Kohli was there. he was probably the only person, he and my son, supporting the RCB from Bangalore because Virat Kohli was in it and everybody else supporting the Punjab team. Well, I'll tell you what, the Punjab team are doing very well at the moment. They're top of the table there.
30:09Hugely successful in India, really generates huge amounts of cash, one of the most popular leagues in the world coming to an end. And once again, it's defied expectations in terms of the number of people who have been watching, which has been great from Reliance, the company that has been streaming it. Right. New Zealand has relaxed rules for a so-called golden visa to qualify for residency and has seen a surge in applications. There's now no English language requirement and a threshold for investment has been reduced from 9 million New Zealand dollars, which is roughly around 3 million US dollars.
30:43I think, is that correct? Right. Erica Stanford is New Zealand's immigration minister and she joins us on the programme. Now, Erica, thanks so much for joining us. When we talk about a surge in new applications, what sort of numbers are we talking about and where are people coming in from? Oh, hello, and thanks for having me. Look, we launched our new so-called golden visa. That wasn't the name I gave it, by the way. I think that's the name that the media have given it. But look, we launched it on the 1st of April. And since then, the applications that have come in have just defied expectations.
31:15We've had 131 applications since then. and predominantly they are from the United States. We're seeing about half of them are coming in from the States, but other countries like China, Germany, Hong Kong are representing the next largest. But interestingly, most of the applications are in the high growth category, which is the$5 million investment, which is great for Kiwi businesses because that's what we're looking for. We're looking for smart people with great connections who are passionate about business and growing business and we are seeing those people interested in New Zealand. Okay, let's talk about the US for a second.
31:55Was that a surprise to you? Is that normal? Is that sort of more than you expected? And if so, why so? It is unusual. I mean, it's kind of what we would have expected, given the situation in the world at the moment. But when we've had these sorts of visas in the past, predominantly we've seen investment coming in from Asia and predominantly from China. But look, there are things happening in the world it is a very unstable place. That's why we're seeing more applications from Europe, especially out of Germany. And of course, there's a situation in America as well. So we are seeing a lot more interest from countries we haven't had in the past.
32:32People looking to build a life here. I mean, it is a beautiful, wonderful country to raise a family, to have your kids sent to school. And I think people are realising that. Yeah, I've got family who live in New Zealand. Erica, they say exactly the same as what you say at the moment. When you say situation in the US, what are you talking about? Are you saying people are leaving because of Donald Trump? Oh, look, I don't want to put words in people's mouths. We are seeing a lot of interest coming out of the state, so I'm not going to speculate on why that is. You must have an opinion. We are seeing, oh, not what I'm going to give to you.
33:06I'll get myself in trouble. You know that. Look, there are things going on all around the world. We've got instability with wars happening. We've got political unrest. And there are lots of reasons why people will choose to invest in another country and make a life for themselves somewhere else. It's happened for many centuries. And so people are making those decisions, but they're making the decision because we have one of the very best so-called golden visas in the world where it's flexible and dynamic. It means that people don't have to spend as much time on shore before they get their residence.
33:36And the types of people who are applying for these visas are global citizens. They spend lots of time in many countries doing the business that they do. And so having that flexibility of time spent in country has been very attractive as well. Stay with us for a second. Just want to bring in Furman and Shushma into this conversation. Furman, if you had enough money, New Zealand, would it be on your list? Yeah, I've never been, but who knows? We are actually, let me jump in with something back home. The government is pushing for a reform here that they want to give the residency to people who invest half a million USD.
34:14I don't know if somebody will be tempted by that, but that's quite new for us here. Yeah, we're seeing lots of countries now trying to take up this scheme. Is it something do you think the Indian government might consider at some stage? Do you think, Shushma, there's a lot of pretty wealthy Indians nowadays? Wealthy Indians, unfortunately, are going to other countries and taking golden visas. And I think, by the way, one of the countries which they are going to, Of course, New Zealand would definitely be very attractive and a lot of Indians are going there for tourism and even to migrate there.
34:51So probably their scheme might be popular. Of course, it's a bit expensive. You have a much cheaper scheme for about the golden visa of Dubai for about$500 ,000. And that is very, very popular, apparently. We don't have any numbers, but, you know, a lot of businessmen have taken this golden visa of Dubai. First of all, Dubai is much nearer than a country like New Zealand. And it has a huge Indian expat population. You know, you have a situation where there's a very large startup community also over there. So a lot of young businessmen are going there apart from the older established industrialists.
35:31So that's very popular. I don't know about other countries. OK, Erica, final thoughts from you. I mean, some people look at the golden visa and say, yeah, nice idea. Yeah, but you're just inviting rich people who already have a lot of wealth into the country. And are they going to add more wealth to New Zealand? They've got enough money already. Well, we know that they do. I mean, the research that we've had in the past shows that on top of their original investment to get their residents, that they invest another$2 to$3 for every dollar that they invest. We see it here. They are investing in local businesses.
36:03They are huge philanthropists. They love their local communities. But I tell you what, what's more valuable to us is not actually that money. It's their contacts and their knowledge. The fact that they have run huge companies and have contacts all over the world and they can help take our Kiwi businesses to the world. That's what we need. They can, but they can also come in and buy lots of properties, which puts pressure on limited housing supplies as well, can't they? Well, look, it's the same for anyone who comes in, right? What they bring in terms of their knowledge, and we're seeing it. I'm talking to local businesses who have had these investors come in, who've helped take them to the world, have invested in their companies, have imparted their knowledge and skills that we just don't have here because we're not big enough and it is so invaluable.
36:49Look, no scheme is always going to be perfect and there are always going to be people who come in and who don't do that. We can't force them to. But the types of people who are coming in are just the most extraordinarily generous and wonderful and most connected, inspirational people who are truly helping take New Zealand businesses to the world. And we couldn't ask for more than that. Erica, thank you for joining us on the programme. And we'll keep talking to you about how that scheme continues to progress. Right. Let us move on now and talk about something that we'll be talking a lot about on the programme over the course of this week because critical minerals are the building blocks to modern life, as well as being crucial to the green transition.
37:28They're in your laptop, phone, and in fact, most of the technology you can think of. But the International Energy Agency is warning that the world is becoming too dependent on just a few countries for those critical minerals. It's something Sam Fenwick has been looking at as part of a series we're running all week on our Business Daily podcast, looking at the global race for these minerals and how we're using them around the world.
37:52The sound you can hear is the blade of a wind turbine slicing through the air, a symbol of the world's push away from fossil fuels and towards clean energy. But powering that turbine and the green transition it represents takes more than just wind. It takes minerals, dozens of them. Around 50 of these elements are now officially classed as critical minerals. Critical because they're essential to modern technology, but their supply is vulnerable. So we've got a sort of hazmat suit coming out now. Oh, he's got a zip down the front. I'm going to put a mask on next. Hood on, hair tucked in, zipped up.
38:34As the world moves to electrify transport and clean energy systems, the pressure is on to produce more and more batteries. On the screen just before you enter this room, it says minus 50 degrees Celsius. Dew point minus 50 degrees. It's telling us that it's extremely dry in there. Probably drier than any place on Earth. Production lines like this one at the Battery Industrialisation Centre in the UK can be built in a matter of months. And I'm being shown around by Richard LeCain, the centre's chief technical officer. So what we have in this display cabinet are a lot of glass jars and what they have in them is the beginning materials of an anode and cathode electrode.
39:19This is this black powder here. that's nickel 60 percent, manganese 20 percent and cobalt 20 percent. So that is the active material and that is what's responsible for determining the energy of the cell. These pastes and powders might not look much but they're the building blocks for our future economies. Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem. Back in February Ukraine's President Vladimir Zelensky traveled to Washington DC to finalize a landmark deal on critical minerals with the US President Donald Trump. You're in no position to dictate that. The talks didn't go to plan, but the importance of the deal meant that negotiations quietly continued behind the scenes.
40:05And two months later, this happened. This partnership establishes a fund that will receive 50 % of royalties, license fees and other similar payments from natural resource projects in Ukraine. Washington's also struck a major deal with the United Arab Emirates. The US is also in talks with the Democratic Republic of Congo, home to some of the world's richest reserves of cobalt and copper. But why now? Well, part of the answer lies with China, which dominates the processing of many of these critical minerals. I think there's a slight misnomer right now that a trade war has suddenly begun. If you're sitting in the metals world, this has been rumbling for quite some time.
40:46Elisak Latvala keeps a close eye on all of this. She tracks the prices of critical and rare minerals at the market intelligence firm Argus Media. China has had an export control on hafnium, for example, for several years. Hafnium goes into the aerospace industry and also electronics. It can be used to make chips, the semiconductors. But then within just the past two years, China has also put export controls on gallium and germanium, which are really important for electronics. And then more recently, on the 4th of April, two days after Donald Trump did his big Liberation Day, China put an export restriction on certain rare earths.
41:28And that is a really potent export restriction that could cause huge disruption. The International Energy Agency says the world needs to act fast to build resilience, diversify supply and prepare for shocks. because right now, if something goes wrong in China, the ripple effects could be felt across the entire world. South Fennig there, and you can go wherever you get your podcasts and have a listen to that series over the course of the week. If I come to you firstly on this, because so much mining takes place in Latin American countries like Chile, and one of the problems with some of the critical minerals that we're talking about, lithium, copper, is we have seen their prices go down, have we?
42:07And that will affect South American economies. Yeah, you are exactly right. And the podcast was really good in explaining that the interest of governments in the region of four critical minerals and their expansion, expanding mining here in the region has been growing quite significantly. Most governments here are betting on expanding the mining industry from copper to lithium to zinc to rare earths. The list is quite extensive. And many countries in Latin America hold a lot of potential regarding this. However, the price fluctuation that we are seeing is not helping in that regard. We've seen many projects being announced and then canceled.
42:47And there's also been lots of social and environmental tensions on the ground. Lithium, for example, requires lots of water for that to be extracted. We have a long record of environmental catastrophes, really. I mean, it sounds strong, but we have a long, long record of that happening in the region. So people on the ground are quite distrustful in terms of expanding mining as well. So in many cases, we also have a lack of social license for these projects to actually kick in. And Fabian, one of the problems that many countries across the world are facing is that they can extract these minerals, but then they're not able to process them.
43:28A lot of them go back to China for processing. What is the situation in Latin America? Well, that's a key question, I would say. Many, many countries here only extract the mineral and just export it raw. That has been the case on all the commodities in Latin America across history, really. But it's kind of repeating itself now with critical minerals. However, the hope that many governments have, which I don't know if it's realistic, but that's the hope, to increase the value-added chain and try to do something else with the mineral here before actually exporting it. For example, Argentina is opening up its first solar panel factory this year, which in terms of costs, it's impossible to compete with China because it's so, so cheap to build them there.
44:18So that kind of raises the question. So is it worth the effort actually to try to do something here? Are you able to compete with the installed capacity that China has and the costs that China has? Yeah, it is not easy, is it? It's something that many countries are looking to do. I remember when I was in India, India was beginning to look at the issue of critical minerals, Shushma, and was looking at whether they could mine within the country themselves. Is that an area that they're still continuing to explore? Yes, yes, of course. There's a lot of interest in that. In fact, there's one mineral, which is thorium, which is being looked at.
44:55I mean, we have fairly large reserves of thorium. You know, and it is it is being viewed as an option, as an alternative to, you know, uranium for the small nuclear reactors, which, you know, the small modular reactors, SMRs, which are now being, you know, the great initiative to try and produce them within the country or import them into India and set them up. because thorium can be transmuted into uranium. And India has very large reserves of thorium. So that's an area that's being explored. And also there is now a rare earth policy. They're trying to identify parts of the country which have these reserves.
45:44But of course, as of now, we are importing critical minerals in large quantities from China, and also things like copper and zinc. There are large imports of copper and zinc because copper, especially both these metals are used greatly in industry. And as industrial development is growing, manufacturing is growing in the country, the demand for these products is growing. We have copper and zinc reserves within the country, but they're not sufficient. OK, a final thought from you, Fermi. I mean, is there still because Latin America is so rich in some of these products that eventually it is going to help grow the economies in the region?
46:25Yeah, I mean, I think there's a possibility of that happening. And I think many of the countries in the region have a lot of room to grow in the mining industry. Chile has a long track record with copper, is one of the leading exports of copper. We also see that in Peru. And we have lots of projects in the pipeline in Argentina with lithium particularly. and there's high bets of investments coming in. And I guess the question would be if the price fluctuation won't affect that much. However, the demand curve following the forecast by the International Energy Agency and others showed that the demand for critical minerals is going to rise up quite dramatically over the next few years, mainly because of the energy transition.
47:15So if you take a look at that, I would definitely forecast the growth in the industry and possible shops and investment. Yeah, it's a fascinating area, critical minerals, because you have some like lithium, where we've seen the price go down by almost 80 percent in recent times. Copper has also dropped. But we have other critical minerals where the prices have gone up, particularly as China has put restrictions in place. More on that throughout the course of the week. Despite all the hype, the stunts and the premier Mission Impossible was beaten at the US box office on its opening weekend, holiday weekend as well, in the US by a live-action remake of Disney's 2002 hit Lilo and Stitch, which itself is only second in the US sales to the Minecraft movie.
48:01We have apprehended a dangerous experiment. Where is he? There we go, that's a bit of Lilo and Stitch. for you, the film that we were talking about. And there must have been sighs of relief at Disney after Snow White. Another live action remake had something of a rocky start. But it does seem like kids' films are leading the way at the box office. Earlier I spoke to KJ Matthews, an entertainment journalist based in LA. They do seem to be doing pretty well this year. Yes, people love animation, but they love video games too. And I heard you mention Minecraft. And, you know, Minecraft is based on a video game.
48:36And I've always believed that the video game fans are larger than the animation fans. I really do believe that when it comes to box office numbers and what so. I mean, both of them have a following. You know, you're always going to find people who love animation. And especially if it's a sequel to an animated film that they love, it will bring people out to the theater. However, the video game people, they just show up in numbers, I feel like, two to one when it comes to animation. Yes. Well, when we're talking about animation, what do you make of the live action remake? This film, Lilo and Stitch, has done very well, but other films haven't done so well, have they?
49:16It's really been a mixed bag with Disney. I hear what you're saying. It really does. I mean, definitely Lilo and Stitch just own the box office. It's really trumped on Mission Impossible Final Reckoning, which is the last in the installment of Mission Impossible films, surprisingly. Because if you look back, I really felt like the Mission Impossible of Final Reckoning almost had Barbie-level marketing. I mean, they opened at the Cannes Film Festival. They had premieres around the world. They brought in influencers. Tom Cruise showed up at local theaters and was eating popcorn. The marketing was there, just like it was for Lilo and Stitch.
49:53But somehow, someway, people just felt that it was a little bit more, I want to say, family-friendly. You know, PG rating versus Mission Impossible having PG-13 rating. And it maybe just felt that it was a film that was better suited for all family members as opposed to Mission Impossible. So, you know, that's interesting. But look, Mission Impossible doesn't have anything to cry about. They still had a series best. They brought in huge numbers. $190 million it was for them. $191 million worldwide. I mean, that's nothing to sneeze at. And of course, 77.5 million domestically. I don't think they're crying.
50:31OK, but then, you know, that Lilo and Stitch, 341 million. They're not crying at all. Right. In terms of that live action remakes then, because it's been a bit hit and miss, do you think it's something Disney are going to continue with or will they look at it and think it's only going to work for certain types of movies? Well, the rest of the year, you know, they had Snow White remake. Of course, Lilo and Stitch, we just talked about remake. They still got Tron coming out and Zootopia, which are remakes. However, Disney has a new film coming out next month called Elio, which is an original animated film by three female filmmakers.
51:08And I think people are going to find that interesting. So they are trying to infuse something new in between the sequels. But, you know, don't fix what isn't broken. If people love it, you know, there's a nostalgia. That's why people love coming back to these remakes. And if they have box office success, you can't argue with that. Of course, the people who argue against it will say, you know, what about originality? We're tired of seeing the remakes. We're tired of seeing the sequels. We want something new. And that is why I think they're bringing in Elio next month. And it will be interesting to see how that does at the box office since that is a new animated film by Pixar.
51:44KJ Matthews. I was thinking about this from when I was in India. I mean, there are a number of, you know, sort of Bollywood kids films, but maybe not as many as we're seeing in other parts, you know, in Hollywood. Yeah, there are. But, you know, you have you have on on the television, you'll have a lot of these movies which have got kids. spoken there in Hindi, in the Indian languages. Like there's Chota Bheem. Bheem is a character in one of our epics, and he's been made into this little child, super child. And, you know, he has all these adventures with his little group of kids. And it's very popular.
52:24And then, of course, you have Hanuman, you know, another popular epic character, the monkey god, which has been made into many films, animation films, which are very popular. As for Lilo and Stitch, I mean, you know, what I'm reading, it hasn't got the kind of response that, you know, these kind of kids' films really get. In fact, it's Mission Impossible, which has done much better in India compared to this film. I think, as I said, you know, if you're talking about bringing children to the theatres, a lot of them like to have the language, you know, the films in their own language. so you know wherever you have that as I pointed out you have these Indian animation films they have been very very popular.
53:12They have indeed Chorabim was something that you know my kids watched when they were in India if I was to go to the cinema in Argentina would I see a lot of Hollywood films there Furman or would I see more local films? Well lots of Hollywood I would say cinema is quite strong here we have really good movies but we also see lots of blockbuster movies from the US, that's quite common to get it here. Lilo and Stitch is on the movies now, for example. Are you going to go and watch it, Firmin? Is it something that you fancy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's on my list. I saw the previous one, but I haven't seen this one yet.
53:47I think it came to the cinemas around five or six days ago, so it's quite recent. Yeah, there we go. What about you? Were you going to watch Mission Impossible, a bit of the old Tom Cruise, or more Bollywood for you, Shishma? What do you prefer? Oh, yeah, I would like to watch Mission Impossible. I think Tom Cruise is great. I mean, even at this age, he's just rocking it. There we go. Clearly a friend. I have to tell you something, Shushma. I know that some of our Bollywood movies can be long, but Mission Impossible, I have to say, it was quite long, I found. About two hours, 45, nearly three hours.
54:19Right, listen. Thank you both very much indeed. Thank you for all your contributions. Shushma, as well, for getting up early for us in New Delhi. We'll be back same time, same place tomorrow.
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From the publisher
The United States President, Donald Trump, has agreed to drop his threat to impose 50% tariffs on European Union imports and extend a deadline to negotiate tariffs with the EU by more than a month. In Argentina, the government has announced that its easing currency reporting rules to deal with dollars kept under mattresses. The Argentine government aims to unleash some $271 billion stashed away in mattresses, safes and foreign bank accounts.
And Rahul Tandon will look at how Disney's live-action Lilo and Stitch remake beat Tom Cruise at the US box office. Lilo and Stitch, which revisits the 2002 animated family favourite, exceeded expectations with takings of $341m (£252m) around the world. Throughout the programme, we will be joined by two guests on opposite sides of the world: Sushma Ramachandran, an independent journalist and columnist with the Tribune newspaper in India, and Fermin Koop, a reporter on environmental and climate change in Argentina.
