South Korean President and Trump meet at the White House

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:30Find out more at polandyourplacetogrow.com. Every day, millions of customers engage with AI agents like me. We work round the clock and have the facts at our fingertips. We're fast and effective, but incredibly patient. And we're built on Sierra, the leading AI-powered customer experience platform. No hold music, just answers and action. Visit sierra.ai to learn more. That's sierra.ai.

1:11Hello and welcome to Business Matters. I'm Roger Hearing. On the programme today, a bumpy prelude to talks between Donald Trump and the South Korean president. But the US president now says we've done a deal. So what are the trade implications? Also today, the tariff problems for postal systems dealing with the US, the perils for young South Africans being recruited on social media for jobs in Russian drone factories, and those dealing with the harm caused by fast fashion in Africa. And I'll be joined throughout the programme by two guests on opposite sides of the world. Sushma Ramachandran, consulting editor at the Secretariat, who's joining us on the line from Delhi.

1:50Sushma, a very good morning to you. Good morning, Roger. It's good to be back, even though I know BBC Business Matters is on the way out. I fear so. But anyway, good to have you with us. And Reema Rahman, who is White House and Legal Affairs Editor at The Hill and Adjunct Professor at the American University, who's joining us on the line from Washington. So, Reema, very good evening to you, I should say. Thank you, Roger, and a good morning to you. And thanks, both of us, for being with us. Let's start, as we always do, by getting a sense of what's going on where you are. So, Sushma, this morning in Delhi, what's making the headlines?

2:27Well, of course, we've had a lot of political things going on. There's a bill which provides for people who, politicians who are in jail for a month to ensure that they don't continue in their positions, whether they're chief ministers or prime ministers. But the other thing that has really upset the online gaming community in our country is a new legislation which just was passed just last week, which bans real money gaming. So you only have you're going to only have games which don't involve money. And that's upset, you know, the huge industry over here. Yeah, it's a big money spinner in the normal course of events.

3:07We'll see how that turns out. I know there's a lot of pushback on that one. And Rima, I mean, so many things, I guess, on your agenda today, but just give us a flavor of something perhaps we won't have heard of. Sure. It was another busy day in Washington and another busy day out of the White House. We had President Trump signing some executive orders to start the day that involved what is being called as the takeover of the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan Police Department and the surge of National Guard troops that are now in the city. That was followed by an on-camera portion of a meeting with the South Korean leader, which sounds like we'll be getting into shortly.

3:48We will very shortly. Yes. And following that, sort of as a surprise, President Trump also signed a proclamation that honoured the 13 U.S. service members who were killed at Abbey Gate during the U.S. withdrawal in Afghanistan. So he was joined with family members of those service members today in the Oval Office. Yeah, a very busy day in the White House, as many of them seem to be. Well, let's actually focus on one of those things you mentioned, which was, of course, the meeting with the South Korean president. I have to say it wasn't the most auspicious start before it actually happened because Donald Trump posted on social media, what is going on in South Korea?

4:26Seems like a purge or revolution. We can't have that and do business there. Well, when the South Korean president, Lee Jae-mong, arrived at the White House just a few hours later, it was all warm words and there's a lot hanging on these talks. There's already a tariffs deal, but Seoul kind of seemed to want to change that. And everything from microprocessors to shipbuilding was up for discussion with Washington's sixth largest trading partner. To start with, Donald Trump certainly sounded positive. It's an honour to be with President Lee of South Korea. we've known each other and gotten along very well we have some additional trade because i hear they want to renegotiate the deal but that's okay i don't mind that that doesn't mean they're going to get anything but i don't mind but we're going to have some very serious discussions about different things including uh trade where we do a lot of trade with south korea as you know we are thinking about contracting some ships.

5:30They build them very well in South Korea. They're also thinking about coming to our country with some shipyards to start us on the process of building ships. Well, there weren't any real references to the president's earlier comments on social media, which did seem to be referring to last year's political upheavals in South Korea. Supporters of former President Yoon seem to hope Trump would intercede in what they say is communist persecution of the impeached ex-president. But trade was the big thing, and certainly the most important one for both sides. After the talks, Mr Trump said, I think we have a deal done.

6:05They had some problems with it, but we stuck to our guns. They're going to make the deal they agreed to make. And shortly after, the Korean president said the meeting was good enough that they didn't really need to issue a joint communique. But interestingly, we've seen some developments since, perhaps not wholly unrelated. Korea Air confirmed the purchase of more than 100 Boeing aircraft. At the same time, South Korea's Samsung Heavy Industries set it aside a memorandum of understanding with Vigor Marine Group on US Navy ship maintenance, actively pursue joint shipbuilding with a US company. And Hyundai, the motor group, is going to establish a state-of-the-art robotics facility with an annual capacity of 30 ,000 units in the US.

6:44So this seems to be what is on the shopping list of that investment. Joining me now, I'm pleased to say, is Ambassador Kurt Tong, the managing partner at the Asia Group in Washington. Ambassador, thank you so much for being with us. This does seem to be a major investment by South Korea in making things in the US. Is that the direction things are going? It is. I think the top agenda for President Trump all along in these trade talks has been to accelerate even further the already rapid pace of Korean investment in the United States. And he focused, as you mentioned, on shipbuilding, on other advanced technological manufacturing.

7:27And then there were some promises made with respect to purchases of U.S. goods and services. So I think the goal of the tariffs for President Trump was to both charge Korea a reasonably high tariff and then use that leverage to induce more investment in the United States. And Korea seems to have gone along with that to some extent. My sense is that the reason why there's nothing being issued on paper, and the president mentioned at one point that we'll have an agreement later tonight, that there's still ongoing discussion about the exact terms of exactly how firm is the Korean commitment to investment.

8:14And does the US have any rights to complain if the investment doesn't come through. Yeah, because these investments I've been mentioning just now seem to be part of a reassurance in a way on that, I suppose. But Ambassador, what does Korea get out of this? Because it has a deal on tariffs, not the best deal, but not the worst deal. And obviously, it's putting lots of investment. What is it getting in return? It's getting some stability in the relationship. I think that for a lot of economies, especially export-oriented ones like Korea, the uncertainty of you don't know from one day to the next what your tariff rate is going to be or whether you're going to have access to the U.S.

8:54market is very unsettling, and then it leads to domestic macroeconomic consequences, which are negative. So Korea is in the same boat as many other countries. As you said, they've gotten a reasonably good deal, and the investment that they ultimately make in the United States would be perhaps investment they were going to make anyways, perhaps a little faster, but probably in the long run, actually good investments. So Ambassador, what should we read into that initial, I suppose, element of doubt and perhaps dislike that seemed to be coming from Donald Trump before the meeting happened, his post on social media, taking, I suppose, issue perhaps with some of the politics that's going on in South Korea?

9:38Was this a way of kind of softening up the president before the actual discussions? It could be. That sort of Oval Office experience now that many leaders are being subjected to is a bit of a gauntlet to run through. And it could have been that might have been part of it. I also think it's quite possible that the president's somewhat puzzling statements were perhaps just a misreading or a misinterpretation of some of the political briefing that he'd received earlier in the day or the day before and putting the pieces together incorrectly in terms of what was going on in Korea. So he seemed to back off of it pretty quickly.

10:18And it was interesting also that he coupled all this with some moves towards North Korea in a way and perhaps trying to get President Lee involved in that. Again, is that part of it that he wants to, this is another conflict he wants to appear to have resolved perhaps? I think that President Trump has for years been fascinated with the idea of making a grand bargain with North Korea, where North Korea would give up its nuclear program in return for improved economic development and that the U.S. could be the one that delivers that along perhaps with some security guarantees of some kind. that North Korea shows no sign of being at all interested in pursuing that at this point.

11:03But I think the president is interested in it. And President Lee, the new president of South Korea, does not object to that, those kind of overtures. And in fact, is probably more positively disposed towards that than the previous Korean president. So they may be able to coordinate their approaches to the North, although experts on North Korea are not particularly optimistic that there's going to be any breakthroughs. So at the moment the prospect of peace there is in the longer term, well it's not very close at the moment, and you don't get the sense that there's any big changes coming in that situation.

11:41I don't. I think that the situation of deterrence on both sides with these very large militaries staring at each other across the demilitarized zone is very worrisome, but it's gone on for 70 years. And fundamentally, it can keep the peace, if you will, along with massive expenditures and military capability in order to do so. Ambassador, thank you so much for being with us. Ambassador Kurt Tong there of the Asia Group in Washington. Reema, do you read this the same way? The apparent, I mean, quite aggressive in a way, things about South Korean politics, followed by what seemed a very harmonious meeting with the South Korean president.

12:28Yeah, it was a bit jarring. The social media post about the South Korean president came maybe one or two hours before he was set to arrive at the White House. So, you know, I do think it's an interesting point that perhaps that social media post was based on some briefings that Trump had received that maybe perhaps he misread. But, you know, another point to emphasize again is these Oval Office meetings with all of this host of war leaders that we've had so far this year. It can be really hit or miss, and it can derail very quickly. And I think that what the South Korean president ultimately ended up doing is the same thing that many world leaders end up doing, which is spending an extraordinary amount of time on flattery.

13:15and that is a lot of how the that that's how the meeting started and then it sort of segued into North Korea and then Trump praising Kim and then it also gave Trump an opportunity to tell his story of crossing the DMZ during his first term and how extraordinary that was. Yeah it's an interesting the psychology of this is very fascinating. Sushma I mean I don't know whether you saw any of this but exactly that line-up on the sofas in the Oval Office. And, you know, we've seen Selensky getting a very hard time there. We've seen the president of South Africa getting a very hard time there in the past.

13:50Oh, yes, yes. I have to say, I wonder if President Lee didn't feel he was walking into the lion's den. Well, I don't know about that. But I must say that as far as India and Korea is concerned, Korea is certainly far more popular than the United States right now in India. And Trump is certainly low in the list of popular leaders here in India. But I must also point out that the kind of the issues that have arisen between the U.S. and India have actually led to the present prime minister, Narendra Modi, becoming more popular. because he's taken the stand. And unlike the kind of flattery, I mean, he was doing flattery at one stage of President Trump.

14:39I mean, this was earlier in the earlier terms and even in the last visit. But obviously the relationship has deteriorated. It hasn't worked. So I think flattery is kind of a short-term fix with Donald Trump. But what's happened is now that he and the government has taken a stand on the tariffs issue, that we're not going to back down on, not allowing market access into agriculture and dairy, there is a surge, I would say, of support for him, bipartisan support for Prime Minister Nodhi on this issue. And, I mean, India has become this kind of embattled nation where even the European leaders like the NATO leader talking about, you know, why is India buying Russian oil?

15:27And so all these kind of things gives the impression that we're back to the era when Nixon was president and Kissinger was critical of Idra Gandhi. Right. That's reaching back quite a way. Modi's got a halo right now. Modi's got a halo. Right. Well, that's interesting to know. They seem to be caught in this in this strange position between China and Russia and the US. And it will make a lot of complications. But let's take our minds now towards South Africa. Now, if you're living in South Africa and you're badly in need of work, there are many who are, and this video popped up on your social media, what would you think?

16:06Every six months brings a promotion, a salary increase and new professional skills. But the most important growth isn't just in the job itself. Participants also learn how to communicate, solve problems and work in an international team. By the way... This is a video that was posted by South African social media influencers and it advertised jobs for young women in Russia. Well, now the South African government has issued a warning to people not to fall for recruitment drives on social media, which promotes seemingly lucrative job opportunities abroad. Because, as they discovered with this one, it comes with a catch.

16:42Our correspondent in Johannesburg, Mayeni Jones, has been telling me why this job was not as straightforward as it seemed. Some videos have been floating around showing young South African influencers in Russia, in one of the Russian republics, Tartastan. And they kind of are showcasing employment opportunities for other young South African women, telling them that this is an opportunity to take part in a two year program, working in Russia, learning the Russian language, living with people from all over the world and getting professional skills. Now, what's interesting about these videos is the kind of skills that they would be getting.

17:21They don't give much details about around. We're not sure what jobs they would be doing, what exactly they would be learning. But it's very much presented to young women online as this golden opportunity. And we've seen similar recruitment drives happening in other African countries, including Cameroon, Nigeria, where young African women, particularly aged 18 to 22, are targeted to work in this Alabuga special economic zone. And I think we know that the Alabuga special economic zone, amongst their actions, they make military drones. So is the suspicion that that's what these young ladies would be doing?

18:01Absolutely. The zone itself is actually under sanctions currently from the European Union and it's believed to be kind of a center for producing weapons for Russia. So there are concerns that this is what these women would be entering into. The UN has actually highlighted some of the recruitment drives and said that they kind of bear the marks of human trafficking because they're deceptive. They don't fully tell you what you'll be doing. And in South Africa, we haven't had any examples of this yet, but in other African countries, there have been reports of young women who've gone to the zone to work and come back describing terrible working conditions, dealing with harmful chemicals, working long hours, not having breaks.

18:44So there's a worrying precedent around this area. And also, I guess, if they are working in drone factories, the risk they might be injured or even killed in Ukrainian airstrikes. Absolutely. The Alabuga zone has been targeted a couple of times in the last two years by Ukrainian strikes. One was in April of this year. There were no casualties, But then there was another one in April of last year where 12 workers were injured and the drone strike hit a dormitory that had reportedly had some African workers there. So it's incredibly dangerous work, not just being in the factory and handling these incredibly powerful weapons, but also there's a risk that you might be hit by a Ukrainian strike working there.

19:28So what is the South African authorities? What are they saying about all this? So they took to social media over the weekend, warning young people to be careful of videos they saw on social media to always make sure that they checked the website of the foreign office here in South Africa. If they are unsure whether a video promoting a job is legitimate or not, or they contact the embassy of South Africa in that country. But they haven't specifically mentioned Russia or what they intend to do with regards to this. The Justice and Security Department did say they would investigate one video by a young influencer called Sian Bougie.

20:07They said they'd look into it to find out if it was legitimate. But the main message seems to be beware of any videos offering you jobs. If it's too good to be true, it probably is. But I suppose they're pushing it at a very difficult door to close because almost half of young South Africans, I believe, are actually unemployed. So, I mean, people need the work. Exactly. Unemployment is huge in South Africa, but it's especially a big problem amongst young South Africans. Almost half of them, as you say, are without a job. So many of them are looking for work opportunities. But lots of people on social media are also saying, you know, as much as we need work, we're also worried about what this might mean.

20:46Some people are concerned that they might be human trafficked, that this might have to do with, you know, sexual human trafficking. So there's a lot of kind of concerns on social media. the young influencer that the authority said they'd be investigating. If you go on her page, lots of people commenting there saying, you know, you should be careful the kind of things that you endorse. She's even taking the videos down. But I think it really highlights the problem that a lot of African countries, including South Africa, have with regards to youth unemployment and the fact that foreign nations can take advantage of that to try and entice these young people to come and work for them.

21:20Mayeni Jones there, speaking to me a bit earlier. Sishma, I mean, it's extraordinary that the Russians are getting workers in this sort of way. But I suppose they take them where they can find them. Yes, absolutely. I think in India also they have been luring people for jobs. And apparently they're lured for other jobs. And they then are sent to the front lines of the war between Russia and Ukraine. So this has been an issue between the Indian and Russian governments. and several people have been rescued from Russia. I mean, there were a lot of news stories about it. But the other story that is sort of similar to this one is the case of a large number of IT experts.

22:05And, you know, these are very well-qualified, educated people who are taken in by these job offers and they are taken, I mean, they go to Cambodia or they're taken to Cambodia and the Myanmar border and their passports are taken away and they're forced to take part in these telephone scams that take place. So here again, there's been a big rescue operation to get these people back. So the Internet is really quite a dangerous place if you're hunting for a job. Well, for many reasons, yeah. And it's interesting, yes, exactly that thing you were talking about. It's been quite a famous case of people being rescued from there.

22:38But Rima, I mean, I suppose it is, you know, the employment world opened up with social media and the Internet, of course, and young people speak that language. So it's reasonable, I suppose, that that's the way they would look for jobs with, you know, with influencers getting involved. Yeah, that's a completely reasonable conclusion to come to. I just think this is a very unfortunate example of exploitation and exploiting a bad situation and really an example of when social media just fails us as a society worldwide. And it's easy to do with the endless scrolling that we do on these apps. it can be very difficult to pick out what's real and what's not.

23:16Yeah, it is the ultimate problem, isn't it? Proving where, you know, the South African government saying we'll be checked very carefully to see if these are legitimate. Well, of course, how can you when you don't have the resources to do it? You have to go, I suppose, on trust. And sometimes that trust is betrayed. Well, there we are. A warning, I suppose, to anyone who might be trying to look for a job in that way. When we come back in just a moment with more business matters, We're going to be talking about the difficulties of sending parcels, small parcels, to the US now because of, well, concerned about tariffs and what they'll mean.

23:48We'll also find out why people are going back to the cinema not to be quiet and watch a nice movie, but to sing along. We'll talk about all that in just a moment here on Business Matters.

24:06This advertisement feature is paid and presented by Poland's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Looking for the perfect place to grow your business? For over 30 years, Poland has been a launchpad for innovation at the heart of Europe, powered by world-class research and ambitious young talent. From bold startups to established powerhouses, Poland offers the momentum, resources and reliability you need to take your business further. Poland, where businesses don't just grow, they're built to last. Find out more at polandyourplacetogrow.com

24:43Welcome back to Business Matters. And it is Business Matters, in case you got a little bit confused there, because we were talking, at least in that trail, about World Business Report, a completely different programme, quite related. But I'm very pleased to say you are with Business Matters. And my guests today on Business Matters are Reema Rehman and Sushma Ramachandran. Now, there's a problem in the post. Several countries have suspended postal services to the United States as Washington ends a long-standing exemption that allowed packages worth$800 or less to enter tariff-free. From this Friday, August 29th, even low-value parcels are going to face new duties.

25:21So, what sort of effect is this having? I asked Kate Muth, who's executive director of the International Mailers Advisory Group in Virginia. It's a pretty big deal. You have postal operators around the world saying that they aren't going to send packages. Some of them have already suspended it as of today. And so it really is, especially for small businesses that rely on the postal network and for citizens, of course, you know, if you're looking for a package from your relative that's in another country, those won't be coming at least temporarily until the postal operators around the world can figure out how to meet the mandate of the executive order that has ended the de minimis exemption for all countries and the postal channel has some challenges because of the way the duties will be collected and remitted to customs and border protection.

26:08Yeah because a lot of it I guess isn't simply being economically worthwhile because of the small size and the amount of markup that there will be. Exactly. I mean, the whole rationale behind the de minimis exemption was because you don't want to be, you know, enforcement costs being higher than the duties you collect. Now, $800 is quite high by sort of the rest of the world's standards. And I think most of us expected that at some point there would be some reform of the de minimis exemption, but eliminating it entirely with one month's notice, it's just the posts are just not ready to do that.