If You’re an Entrepreneur Afraid of Failure, You HAVE to Hear This | Claire Coder

0:00When you listen to a show like this and you see a guest like Claire, you say to yourself, well, Claire's a Forbes 30 Under 30 recipient. She's a Peter Thiel Fellow. She's raised over$16 million. She is currently dominating an industry that she created. Those are the reasons why I should listen to this show. Now, I'm not going to say those are bad reasons to listen to this show, but there are some other elements of Claire that are not obvious from the outside looking in. You should listen to this show because you are going to hear the way that a business mastermind thinks. The way that she calculates risks is fundamentally different from anything you have ever heard.

0:38Remember, we have been doing podcasting for over 10 years, 1 ,800 episodes, and the thought processes, the approaches, the mindsets that you are going to hear from Claire Coder today are like nothing you have heard before. I've had the pleasure and privilege of calling Claire a friend and we've worked together in various capacities. So I've seen this journey from the very beginning. And so I can tell you firsthand that you are in for a treat because in this episode, you're going to learn what it takes to build a business, create a market, dominate the market. And you'll also get the shocking answer to one of the most powerful tools that she has used to get to where she is today.

1:20And I guarantee you, you are not going to see it coming. I wanted to ask you if there is any skill that you were born with it that no one taught you that was crucial for the success in your career. I mean, Kwame, we have something in common. We both have. My friends, you are in for a treat because today you are going to hear the story of Claire Coder. And welcome to Big Swings Only. Today's episode is brought to you by Shopify, Granola AI, Quince, and the Anxious Achiever podcast. Stay present in your meetings. Get three months of granola free at granola.ai slash Kwame. For your gift list, shop quince.com for free shipping and 365-day returns.

2:05And make sure to tell them that Kwame with Big Swings Only sent you. Subscribe to the Anxious Achiever today on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Do you have an idea that you want to live for the holidays? Launch before Black Friday at Shopify.com slash Kwame. Let's start off with the starting. Because usually with my guests, I don't start off chronologically. But I think for reasons that will become obvious, starting off chronologically is notable for you. Let's go all the way to the beginning with the inception of this idea. that has now germinated into something that is a global phenomenon.

2:49Take us back to the start. Where did this all begin? Wow. Ten years ago. Call me, we knew each other then. I know. So 2016, living in Columbus, Ohio, I'm studying comparative religion at The Ohio State University. and I was at an event and I got my period unexpectedly as 86 % of women do. And in the bathroom, I realized that I didn't have a tampon or pad. And so I'm looking around and I see a quarter operated dispenser for period care. And I don't have a quarter because no one carries coins. and as I am sitting in the stall MacGyvering my own tampon out of toilet paper I look to the left of me and then there's this metal bin with a brown paper bag that I'm supposed to throw away my period product in Kwame have you seen these before you know these like okay okay like I don't know what they're supposed to fit like you have pins like they definitely don't fit in diapers they don't I don't know what they're supposed to fit um and in this moment I'm thinking oh my gosh There are billion-dollar companies solving toilet paper, soap, paper towels, urinal screens in commercial bathrooms.

4:08But no one is doing anything for dispensing for period care and disposal for period care. At 18 years old, I decided that I was going to be that person to figure that out. Incredible. Well, first of all, it's refreshing to know that I'm not the only person confused by those small bins. Confused too. Everybody's confused. Like what is like you're supposed to touch it. There's a brown paper bag that doesn't fit. None of it makes any sense. It's not just you. OK, good. Very good. And it's this is the start of so many great entrepreneurial journeys where you say there's a problem. nobody's fixed it i guess it's me and so from this moment where where did you go let's go to the next steps because one thing i admire one of the many things i admire about you is that you move quickly i move quickly even with a ruptured achilles i'm still moving fast um so i after that weekend i went to my guidance counselor at ohio state i said hey i'm going to be dropping out of college to pursue this business idea.

5:20The very nice guidance counselor said, honey, don't you want to like take a leave of absence? You know, maybe come back if it doesn't work out, right? Because like 99.9 % of businesses fail. I said, nope, they're already against me. So I got to put all my eggs in this basket. We're going all in. So that I was only at college for a semester. I didn't come back for the second semester. I started renting a place in Columbus, downtown Columbus, and it was a three bedroom. The two other bedrooms, I started an Airbnb enterprise so that I could start paying for my rent. I got a waitressing gig and all the money I made waitressing, I poured into this business concept.

6:03I mean, at the time it was like, how could we make this better, right? There was no business. It was just a problem that was blatant that needed a solution. And that's where I started hustling, trying to make ends meet and really putting my full body towards a solution for this problem that I would experience literally every time I went to the bathroom outside of a home. Wow. Okay, let's let's take a step back. Let's go into this mentality. Because you, let's say you zigged where many other people would zag. And in this situation, you said, okay, the odds are against me, so I better go all in.

6:41Most people would say the odds are against me, so let me hedge my bets. Can you tell us about that fork in the road mentality? Because it seems natural to you, but there's so much sophistication behind it. I want to make sure people don't miss that. Right. Mathematically, if you have 0.01 % chance of success, and then you are splitting that chance of success even further by diversifying, then your 0.01 % turns into 0.0001%. So simply mathematically for me, it made more sense to optimize for the best opportunity. That's the way that I looked at it. I think there was also another level of consideration.

7:24I was 18 years old. Nothing to lose. I had no lifestyle that I had to maintain. I had no children I needed to support. I had the privilege to be able to go all in. I recognize that that is something that I could have when I was 18 years old that I might not have later. So mathematically and situationally, that's why it made sense for me. This is brilliant because for me, what I love about this is that people often say it's not logical for me to take this risk because the odds of success are so low. But really, you created a very logical decision matrix that went very quickly to the other side.

8:10Totally. Some people say like girl math. I'm like, this is Claire math. it works it works it's it's brilliant because people often create a self-fulfilling prophecy where they say the odds of success are so low let me hedge my bets and then it fails and say well see i'm glad i hedged my bets because it did succeed but they never tested the hypothesis of what it would look it look like if they actually went all in that's my perspective and i see all sides i certainly do but But my hit rate has been pretty good on this one. I would say so. I would say so. And there's also an advantage of starting sooner, too, that I've recognized.

8:55I don't know about you, and I tell this to my son all the time. I had friends all the time who were saying, I want to start a business. I want to start a business. The amount of them who have actually done it, I mean, like meaningfully tried, it's next to none. And what I've noticed is that the golden handcuff starts a lot older, a lot younger than people realize, because I remember some of my friends would say, OK, well, right now I'm making$70 ,000. So I would need my business to make$70 ,000. Then I'll jump. And then they get a promotion. And then and now I talk to them. This is another math equation that will never math.

9:31Entrepreneurship on paper does not make mathematical sense for the first decade. I and I'll just share a point blank here right my first five years for AntFlow my first three years I didn't pay myself anything my fourth year I was rich because I paid myself$24 ,000 a year and then by year five you know whatever so now 10 years in I pay myself a salary I'm still not the highest paid person at AntFlow but I'm comparable to some of our other leadership team members But if I did stay in college, mathematically, I probably would be at a higher salary. And if we look at the full decade, I would have had more salary coming in.

10:14That said, I am optimizing for outcome. And I truly believe that one, by building a product that is necessary, changing the world, and truly transformative to how every person goes to the bathroom, we'll have a meaningful outcome. But mathematically, most entrepreneurial endeavors in the early days does not work financially. It doesn't make any sense. So if we're going to go back to the numbers, this is clear math, not real math. And I think that's a big consideration. Oh, for sure. And clear math involves other things that I think makes the calculation more holistic. Because you said you're optimizing for impact.

10:56That's clearly one of your key values, your key motivators. What are some of the other things that might be less obvious or more intangible that go into your calculations when you're considering risk? hmm well generally when i when i consider business risk if if i'm making a decision that doesn't make sense on paper right like real risk is something that doesn't make sense on paper somebody will do all of the math and they'll be like oh that's risky it's like no no i'm doing something risky if you can't even make it make sense like right like no like that's risk an An example of that was when in the middle, in February of 2020, we were planning to implement our first dispensers for on-flow period care solutions, right?

11:46We rely on people menstruating outside of the hall. And in February of 2020, I started getting phone calls. Hey, Claire, we're not going to return to the office. So menstruation didn't stop, but my business opportunity did. And so I made the risky decision, because it didn't make any sense really at the time. It was February of 2020, really early. I made the risky decision to wire essentially all of the money in our bank account to retool our pad production to make FDA-approved three-ply masks. in a matter of 12 months, we generated over 12 million in revenue, 3 million in profit. We became the number one supplier for the Department of Defense, state of Michigan and state of California for our PPE.

12:29We launched Workflow, which was a subcompany of Onflow, and that supported and drove our business and added additional profits into our company that was non-dilutive capital so that when we did go to market in 2021, we were set off for success. but those are those that's what I consider real risk and for me when I am making a real risk decision something that doesn't make sense on paper my body forces it like I there's not another option like there's no like there's no other way to describe it other than maybe you just felt so certain. And for non-entrepreneurs, I feel like the most common thing is kids.

13:16Some people just know so innately that they want children. And when you poke into it, you're like, well, really, why do you want children? They're like, their whole premise crumbles. Like, there's no, like, what do you mean you really want to spend an extra million dollars on a thing that's going to take all your time and they're like you can't explain it that that i feel like is real risk and that's what i feel when i am making those business calls wow okay first of all as an entrepreneur and parent that hit that hit that was really good it's like i don't know i feel this need to procreate like the guani like it's it's so expensive the kid's really taking a lot of your time imagine all the business value you could create if you weren't putting it into that game like you know and then it's just like crumbles yep no you're absolutely right and it's funny you you preempted me because i was going to say tell us about your gut because it's clearly you're somebody who has who has trained their gut because that's one thing because sometimes people just have random feelings.

14:21Okay, cool. And then they make bad decisions. But you are somebody who you, there's a deeper understanding that leads to these, the capacity to make these instinctual calls. So how did you cultivate it? Can describe a little bit more so people can maybe figure out how to tap into it themselves. And maybe this will go, we'll go back to the kids example. To some extent, when you make these hard calls, they're so big and they're so intense that they have to work out, right? It's like, once you have a child, you got to figure it out. Once you wire all the money in your bank, you got to figure it out.

14:55And so to some extent, I think, for me, my gut decisions, when they are so big, and they are so monumental, my whole body forces, it's a forcing function to figure it out, right? When we make these big calls, and they are one way doors, right? You can, the door closes once you made the decision, you figure it out. And, um, I think that that's ultimately what I check in on. If I say, okay, if I'm going through this one way door, am I really ready to have it shut hard on the way out and figure out the downsides? And, and I generally get more comfortable with that. That's, that's, I think how I've thought about it.

15:46I've also had scenarios where I feel like my gut wavers. I've had scenarios of betrayal from previous team members. I've had lots of challenges with that. And those are moments where I'm like, oh, no, I trusted you. And that shakes that gut feeling. so I'm still crafting it I'm still considering it but I do really think about that one way or two-way door scenario and once I drive through that door and that door shuts real hard behind me I'm like okay we're figuring it out the baby's here right yeah you're absolutely right and you have to you have to be meaningfully committed to what it is that you're doing and I've always found benefits in burning the boats you know the classic entrepreneurial uh saying burn the boats just strictly commit.

16:39And it's been liberating. And that's one of the things that drives me because, yes, impact. Of course, I love changing the lives of people. I like seeing people's lives better as a result of interacting with my content and teachings and all those things. But there is a value that I have that I recognize that's been a through line in everything, and it's optimizing for freedom. And freedom is one of those core values. I hate the feeling of being owned or Or feeling like I'm not in control of my own destiny. And when it comes to the way that you have run your business, how has that concept really played into the way that you've navigated your career as an entrepreneur?

17:22Interesting. I think the reality is I haven't really had a job side of this. And so I don't know. And I worked with a waitress. And so I had that experience, but I haven't had that other side where perhaps, Fami, as you were saying, optimizing for freedom. Maybe I would say that if I knew what feeling trapped felt like. Wow. And perhaps I just have this beautiful privilege of being in a world that I have created. And so I do have a lot of opportunity there. And for me right now, what I am optimizing for is spending time doing the things that bring me the most joy. In 10 years of building Aunt Flow, I've had the same title.

18:14No title promotions here. Founder and CEO, 10 years straight. But my role has changed significantly through those 10 years. And certainly as an entrepreneur, I was doing things that I hated. I hated managing payroll. I hate building out our annual employee handbook. I hate that stuff. And now I'm really in a moment in time where I can be optimizing for the things that I really like to do, which is hanging out and chatting with you, Kwame. evangelizing the business evangelizing what we've built and how accessible period care changes the world focusing on sales yes i said it i love sales um and and that's really what i'm focusing on right now is the thing doing the things that i love that drive enterprise value for the company that's beautiful that is beautiful hey what a what a statement to make like you've never had to yearn for freedom because you created it from the inception of your career.

19:20That is great to not know how it feels. So that's really, really good. Here's something that I've wondered, and this goes down into my psychology nerdiness and persuasion nerdiness. When you started, because you launched at OnFlow when you were 19 at the time, right? 18, 19, same thing. Something young at the time. When you were starting to raise funds and get buy-in for this business, because it was a big vision and it was like nothing else, especially in the Columbus, Ohio era that we've ever seen. And it's very novel on the national level too. How did you get buy-in at such a young age for people to take that bet on you?

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21:55Well, back in 2016, there was no policy around accessible period care in the United States and very nascent globally. And so when I first started talking about this concept of accessible tampons and pads in bathrooms and hygienic disposal, people told me, Claire, there is no market for B2B period care. employers aren't going to buy yet another thing to offer for free in their bathrooms which I thought was odd because I'd go to offices and I saw like kombucha was on tap and a ping pong table was available so that felt that there was a idiosyncrasy there that didn't seem to line up because people were paying for stuff but but that was the initial feedback there was no market and And so really for the first five years of Aunt Flo, we focused on advocacy and we focused on demonstrating the importance of offering accessible period care.

23:01And now today and years later, I am proud to say that 27 states require and fund schools to offer free period care in school bathrooms. We've proven that offering tampons and pads at no cost in schools increases attendance amongst girls. We now have international policy where Canada became the first country to have federally regulated employers to offer free period care in bathrooms. That includes banks and fisheries and coal mines, of which AntFlow stocks many of them. And in 2023, when we raised a Series A financing, our large investor was JLL Spark, which is the corporate venture firm of the publicly traded global real estate firm, JLL, and they helped us market map that this market that didn't exist 10 years ago is now a$2 billion category in North America.

23:55And so it was a journey of helping people see the vision and understand the importance and demonstrating that there is a market. You're just not paying attention to it. I'm going to make it. And then therefore I'm going to win it. We have the right to win it because we've developed this market. Yes. And so for the people who are listening, you can hear the passion. And I believe that is one of the things that makes you stand out too, because you're not saying, hey, you know, I think maybe this could work. There is a lot of energy and conviction in that too. Let's dig deeply into this, because this is something that I've noticed people struggle with, where, you know, we talked earlier about hedging in terms of not going all in in your decision making and your commitment to to entrepreneurship but i believe sometimes entrepreneurs have this this challenge where they sound like they're hedging when it comes to their competencies their capabilities how does can you tell us the the strategy you have how much of it is intentional versus innate when it comes to speaking with such conviction and the the effect that it has on other folks

25:13well to some extent i do think that if you're an entrepreneur you have a level of delirium to believe that at 18 years old you can create an entire market for b2b b2b period care convince people to invest 16.6 million dollars into the company and then implement 70 000 bathrooms with accessible period products like I certainly had a level of delirium. That's also entrepreneurship. And so from a conviction perspective, I've never thought about it because for me, there just had to be a solution. I mean, the existing scenario of not having period products in bathrooms or being gated by a quarter-operated dispenser or having biohazardous material just sit around in a bin that doesn't fit anything and then having janitors have to unclog toilets and wonder why women throw product down the toilet because the bins don't fit anything and then cause billions of dollars of clogged toilet costs annually like you know it's like when you say it out loud it's like of course i have conviction like the whole scenario without our solution is diabolical Now, for me to believe that I'm the right person to change it, that's where we get that level of, wow, like at 18 years old, I hear that, but that I think is some level of entrepreneurship.

26:43But from a business perspective, you know, it has to be true because the current solution just doesn't make any sense. Yeah. When you lay it out like that, it really does seem like that was dumb what was happening in the past, just like silly. and let me say this too one of one of my favorite things to do now is when I'm out going to the bathroom and I'm just seeing your stuff everywhere and I remember before it's it's so cool to see because I remember seeing the dispensers I remember those big old clunky dispensers I don't see those very much anymore I see I see your products out and that's really great yeah and for me since I've known you for so long and we work together in different capacities.

27:31I was really moved by the role that men play as allies in what it is that you're trying to accomplish. And from the outside looking in, it's not very obvious. So can you speak to the role that men can play and have played? And let's give a special shout out to all the other flow bros out there. The Flow Bros. That's exactly what we call our guys that support AMP Flow. You know, what's interesting is our primary customer persona is a man. It's a head of facilities, a head of janitorial, a head of custodial. Oftentimes those roles are held by the Toms, Jims, and Joms of the world. And they might not be menstruating.

28:20And it's our job to help them get really comfortable talking about a topic that maybe they've never had a conversation about. But everyone loves someone who menstruates. Full stop. Your sister, your mom, your daughter, everybody loves someone who menstruates. And so that's where we start. And we work with our heads of facilities and our heads of operations. And we say, hey, this might not be something that you need, but this is something that half of your workforce needs. This is something that half of your student body needs. And sometimes those buyer personas are women and they have experienced this moment of, oh my gosh, I got my period unexpectedly.

28:59They get it. They implement AntFlow. They see the value. But much of our jobs at AntFlow is education and helping people feel really comfortable talking about this conversation because they might not have had that platform before. So Kwame, very grateful to have you as a flow bro. and having that dialogue because it is really important. And everybody can be a part of that change for accessible period care in bathrooms. Definitely. No, I agree 100%. And you are still - Kwame, I actually have a question for you real quick on that. Yeah, go ahead. So people might think, oh, well, that's just for the women.

29:37But Kwame, have you ever had a scenario where you had to leave an event or had to go get period products for your wife? I did. Yeah. Yes. Yes. It's very awkward. Well, see, it's not just the women's issue because you were implicated in one of these scenarios, right? Like, wife gets period unexpectedly. You have a scenario, right? And this is an example of why over 50 professional sports venues or venues have implemented Aunt Flo. because if you're cheering on Kansas City Chiefs, Kwame, you don't want to have to go leave that game because your partner got their period unexpectedly. Now, thankfully, their venue does stock AntFlow, so all of those fans don't ever have to worry.

30:28But that's an example of why it should be a conversation for everybody and why we love to have that. Yeah, it makes so much sense. And what's funny about this is that the sign of a brilliant insight is that it seems obvious in hindsight. Once you explain it, it's like, duh, this should be quite obvious. But that's why we need folks like you advocating for this. And so let's break down this strategy, too, because what I'm hearing is that there's not just the standard business strategy. There's also the advocacy strategy. So there's a lot of communications built into this, public policy work built into this.

31:11Is it a bridge too far to say lobbying? Do you have to? Yeah. So let's, can you talk about how the challenge of addressing all of those things within your startup? Yeah. You know, if anybody is thinking about starting a business, it's much easier to start a company where a market's already created and defined. Then you can save like$10 million in market creation. but at Aunt Flow we play on hard mode we had to create a market convince people the market existed convince people to talk about a thing they don't want to talk about and then sell them the thing that is our business which has turned out to be incredible right we stock 70 ,000 bathrooms all 50 states three countries we have 2 ,000 customers ranging from you know a thousand schools four million girls grew up with Aunt Flow like it's turned out to be worth a worthwhile endeavor But if somebody wants to do it a little bit easier, I would say cut out some of those steps.

32:07As a result, you're right. We do have many components and dynamics to our business. On our website, there's advocacy resources because anybody that's listening to this podcast could advocate who bring Aunt Flo to their gym, to their workplace, to their alma mater, to their kid's school. And that is genuinely how we make the change and the impact is somebody saying, oh, yeah, you know, I listened to this podcast, Big Swing. And, you know, I'm thinking maybe we should have this. We should have Aunt Flo in the bathrooms. And that's a component to our business strategy is the advocates. That's for you, listeners.

32:52And that's really important to us. For sure. And so, Simone, let's make sure that we put links in here. so people can easily advocate. Because I started to think, I said, wait, are you in Lifetime's fitness? You should be. We should be. Yeah, so I'll talk to the general manager about that. So that would be good. Amazing. That's so cool. One of the things that really helped on Flow to take off is the fact that there is a true spirit of generosity that fuels this, that is genuinely novel today. Can you talk about the impact donations that you have done over the years? Certainly. What I think is really incredible is our business is inherently impactful.

33:39Every time you go to a bathroom that has implemented AMP Flow, you are feeling the impact. You are feeling the change of accessible period care, and you can stay at an event longer. You can go back to your classroom. That said, there are one in four students in the United States that can't afford tampons and pads. Period products are not covered by SNAP or by WIC. And so it is actually sometimes a gating factor for people to even go to those places and spaces. and so that's why since 2021 we have donated over 7 million period products to girls in need in the United States Canada and the UK to ensure that people don't have to worry about getting their period in public they can go to those places and they can then you know if they do get their period have ant flow in the bathrooms but they can get to the place in the first place which is really meaningful and important yeah that's changing so many lives in ways that again for speaking for men is just, it's not on our radar.

34:45And so this is, it's so impactful. So thank you for doing that and kudos for that work. And something that just came to mind, are you familiar with the organization 50-50 Women on Boards? Oh, tell me more. Oh my goodness. Simone, we made a connection. So Heather Spilsbury, she is the CEO of 50-50 Women on Boards. Their whole goal is to get more board representation on publicly traded boards. So I'll connect you. Yeah. Love it. That would be perfect. Listeners, you see, that's how the world works. Yes. Connections. Live. Making it happen. Yes. It's matchmaking. It's like, I think you two would vibe.

35:27Let's do it. I think that this is what's so powerful about you as a human and generally people. I've run across people who kind of gate their networks. And I truly believe that generosity can live for AntFlow, certainly with a donation perspective, but also with your network. Sometimes people say, oh, I don't have things to give. I get it, right? Like maybe you don't have financial means to give right now, but you can give an introduction. You can advocate for ant flow in your bathrooms. There are so many steps that can be taken that don't cost anything. And I view network and connections as one of the most meaningful things that people can give.

36:13And you are very generous in that way. So thank you, Tommy. Thank you. Thank you. Well, I mean, it goes back to how we met. You were speaking at COSI, right? And I was like, I need to meet her.

36:30Now here we are, still friends. So cool. So cool. Before we go into the next section, let's talk about your network, though, because you've always been good at networking. But I don't even want to call it networking with you. Networking sounds like boring and slimy. How do you view relationship building? How do I view relationship building? It's a fascinating question and something that I am adjusting later on in my life. I think early on, I was candidly more transactional, right? Everything felt so finite. I had to make connections so that I could raise the round of capital. I had to make connections so that I could close the business deal.

37:17But now I'm realizing that most people that I meet have some form of value that I can give them or value I can receive from them if I get really creative. And historically, I used to be pretty like, like, you know, tunnel vision on what that value was. And so now for my network creation, and people that I want to spend time with are people that I vibe with, like, Who do I want to spend an hour in a podcast with? Those are the people that I want to stay and network with. Those are the people that I want to text with, right? So I think that's a good gut check. And it turns out, Kwame, you're on that list.

37:59Here I am. I love it. What do you say in the first 30 seconds to a male procurement officer who clearly doesn't want to have this conversation? I can tell you don't want to be talking about this right now, John. So here's what we need to do. I need these three pieces of information. I'll send you a quote. I'll get you the product that you need. And we will never have to talk about tampons and get pads ever again. Wow. That's great. How do they have the new John? That buyer persona is kind of my favorite. There's no conversation and we close the deals because poor John knows he has to do this. And I'm on the phone with him.

38:39And so if he just gets me the information very quickly, which I really appreciate, then we can move on and we can close the next deal. That's brilliant. I mean, you're essentially leveraging their discomfort for the exact information you need as efficiently as possible. Oh, so good. So good. What is the most common investor objection and what is your answer to that objection? historically it was no market no market for b2b period care then it was claire hardware's hard i don't really know you have a you know you have a hardware business and i don't know about that um more recently what we have recognized is that investors although they say they really like to invest in contrarian ideas.

39:36They are all pattern matching. And so even though AntFlow has a brand, we are not CPG. We are B2B, but we're not SaaS. We are hardware, but we're not IoT enabled. And so we don't pattern match any of their archetypes. I'm a dropout, but not from Stanford. I'm a Teal fellow, but I don't live in San Francisco. And so we are disrupting their brain synapses that are trying to connect things. And that, I think, is the number one new reason why folks aren't around the table or decide not to because they don't know where to put us. Yeah. Now, that makes a lot of sense. Okay, I want you to think back to the Claire who was studying comparative religion to the Claire who is founder and CEO of Aunt Flo.

40:33What are the similarities and what are the differences? Try this. Pull up your notes from a meeting last week. Do they still make sense or do they just seem like random notes that only the old version of you could decode? That used to be me. And as a negotiator, that's a real problem because my job is to listen, not type or write notes. That's why Granola has been one of my favorite tools, period. It's an AI-powered notepad. I jot my usual rough notes, and then Granola securely transcribes the meeting in the background. And when it ends, I get clean, structured notes that still make sense a week later.

41:09Decisions, owners, next steps, everything that I would need to feel good about going forward. And it works through your device's audio too, so there's no additional setup or any annoying AI joining your call. Just your normal meeting, but with superpowers. If meetings are eating up your day, Granola is a no-brainer. You can try it totally free for three months. Just go to granola.ai.com. That's granola.ai.com to get your time back. Get three months free at granola.ai.com. Every year, I swear that I'm going to get ahead of holiday shopping. This year, it started with a Quince cashmere sweater that I bought for myself.

41:46It was so soft, so well made, and my first thought was, who else on my list needs one? Quince makes high-quality staples with 100 % Mongolian cashmere and Italian leather. And their cashmere sweaters start at just$60. All of it is 50-80 % less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. As a negotiator, I know a great deal when I see one. This is luxury quality without the luxury price tag. I use Quince and you should too. Give the gift of quality this season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or just go to Quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.

42:26Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Kwame with Big Swings Only. That's the best way to support the show. the similarity part of the reason why i was fascinated with religion is a bit controversial but i do think that religion is the best business um candidly talk about evangelism market creation category creation and convincing people to do things. That's the best business. So I was intrigued with that originally, and I am still intrigued with that now. So that is certainly a similarity. The difference is when I was studying at the Ohio State University, I really felt like I needed to fit in.

43:22I would wear that Ohio State logo. I would try to go to parties and try things out. But I really didn't want to do that. I wanted to be in bed by 10pm. And now I am so delighted in my self confidence to be able to just say, I'm turning into a pumpkin. It's 930. I'll see you all tomorrow. That's great. Fun fact, when I was at OSU, I had this rule, I said, I just said to myself, bad things don't happen before 10 p.m. So I will be home at 10. Right, right, exactly. That's another thing of how I feel about networking or any business deals. People are like, oh, we got to do the business deal at the bar.

44:05I'm like, okay, maybe. But when I have tried that methodology, they don't remember what they had signed up to the next day, which feels like a flouncy business deal to me. I've heard that so many times. It sounds like a great idea. Oh, yeah, I've never. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That is, that, no, no. We could do top golf or putt-putt, something like that. Yeah, yeah. How did that go? I'll tell you what. We always have a 4D chess move, right? And our 4D chess move for this golf outing was I said, you know what? I will not be golfing because I don't want to be trapped with three other random people that might not be relevant to me and then stuck with them for five hours.

44:54So what we'll do is we will sponsor one of the holes and it'll be the ant flow hole. And they are required to hit the ball off of a tampon tee. And so we put a little tampon up instead of the tee and they had to hit that ball off that tampon tee. And that was the whole. And so all these facility and janitorial people were required to participate in that. And that worked out quite well. But that is my version of golf. See, one of the things I love about you is that if the game isn't working for you, you just change the game. You don't ask for permission. You're just like, this isn't working. We're doing it differently.

45:33And I love that. New chessboard. New game. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay, so Teal Fellowship at 22. First of all, tell us what that is. And then what sacrifices did you need to make in order to make that happen? Peter Teal, who is most known as the co-founder of PayPal, for the past roughly 13 years, selected up to 20 kids to invest$100 ,000 in them personally to drop out of college and to build their companies. I received that fellowship. I received$100 ,000 and left university to start building what is now known as Aunt Flo. I had actually started applying for the Teal Fellowship when I was 14 years old.

46:18I was looking for alternatives to college because I didn't think that college was for me originally. But I didn't get it until literally six years later. But perseverance pays. I applied every year. Some years I got interviews and still got declined. And so eventually I got it. And for me, it was really transformative to meet some incredible founders who are building incredible businesses. Very nice. Very nice. What role is, if any, is AI playing in AntFlow right now? all over all over the good news is is our business isn't being disrupted by ai we did do an ai disruption assessment by we i mean our investors did a whole assessment of which of their portfolio companies are getting disrupted by ai and flow turns out is really safe for them because so far ai isn't coming for menstruation or good.

47:25So that's great. That's in terms of business disruption perspective. But in terms of us utilizing AI, we've certainly found a lot of use cases ranging from being able to respond to tickets faster, some of those basic components. But we are still very much a human-centered business and applying where it makes sense to meet people's lives a bit more efficient. Nice. What is the best piece of advice that you ignored and what happened? Um, things that have not been discussed. I ignored the advice that I should stay in Ohio, because it was cheaper, more affordable, and financially made sense. Once again, another on paper decision.

48:11But Claire's math led me to moving to New York City for a period of time to be able to raise capital, build connections and really elevate and accelerate our business. But on paper, certainly my rent were axed compared to what my cost of living was in Columbus, Ohio. Yeah, I remember when you made that decision because that was a big one. Because for the listeners who are not in Columbus, you have to understand Claire is a Columbus all star. She is like one of the gems of entrepreneurship in Columbus. And so it's like the queen of entrepreneurship is leaving. That was it was it seemed like there was a little bit of an idea.

48:47The queen is back. Royalty has returned. Yes. Back in Columbus. So good to have you back, too. But I remember there was like a bit of a tension there where it's like, oh, man, I've been like dominating this ecosystem for so long. Now I'm going to one of the most competitive business environments in the history of humanity. It's a completely different vibe. Yeah, it's the big fish, small pond scenario. I and Kwame, we've joked about this. We both are recipients of Columbus's 40 under 40. I received that when I was 20 years old. And that is scary when you're receiving the city's most prestigious award and you're not even half the age requirement.

49:32So I knew that I needed to expand my life perspective, world perspective immediately so that I could bring those perspectives back to the community that helped raise me. And I'm so grateful for all that Columbus has given me. And I'm so grateful for all that it continues to give our business. But I needed to be able to be a small fish in a big pond. For sure. For sure. And let's make sure that the listeners know that you have Forbes 30 under 30 as well. But OK, last one. Last one of the lightning round. One word for what it feels like to walk into the bathroom and see your dispenser on the wall.

50:15Oh, my gosh. It feels so good. But classic founder mode. I immediately go into product testing. I'm like, I pull out my measuring tape and have my backpack right here. I have my measuring tape and my keys with me at any given time. I'm measuring, is this placed in an ADA compliant position? Because if it's more than 48 inches from the ground, it is not ADA compliant. I pull my key out. I check how the gears are. I look to see which version it is. So I love it. It gives me so much joy, but also classic founder mode. I'm like, what model are we on when did they order like I can tell all of that from their internal panel so it's a joy but also people are like Claire you just spent like 20 minutes in the bathroom are you are you okay okay now I have a follow-up question have other women seen you investigating the mechanics oh totally totally they're like miss do you need a tampon I have one I'm like no no no We got a whole bunch here.

51:14Do you need a damn bunch? I got a whole bunch. That is great. That is great. Okay, Simone. So, Simone, you've been waiting patiently. What's coming for you right now? I've seen some good entrepreneurs and some good people that work for enterprises, but they have very different profiles. So I wanted to ask you, and to ask Kwame as well, if there is any skill that you have, that you were born with it, that no one taught you, that was crucial for the success in your career. If you were going to take a big swing this holiday season and start a business, what would you build? Maybe it's that one idea that you can't stop thinking about.

51:59I've built a business from the ground up, and I can tell you that the hard part isn't the idea. It's getting it live. That's where Shopify comes in. You can sell everywhere people shop, online, in person, across social media, even in AI chats. And Shopify checkout with ShopPay converts up to 36 % higher than the competition, so more of the people who show up actually buy. Plus, Black Friday is when more people are already shopping and ready to buy, so the sooner you're live, the better. If you're ready to launch your business before Black Friday, go to shopify.com slash kwami to start your free trial.

52:36That's shopify.com slash kwami. Go to shopify.com slash kwami to hear your first... Every year, I swear that I'm going to get ahead of holiday shopping. This year, it started with a Quince cashmere sweater that I bought for myself. It was so soft, so well made, and my first thought was, who else on my list needs one? Quince makes high-quality staples with 100 % Mongolian cashmere and Italian leather. And their cashmere sweaters start at just$60. All of it is 50 to 80 % less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. As a negotiator, I know a great deal when I see one.

53:15This is luxury quality without the luxury price tag. I use Quince, and you should too. Give the gift of quality this season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or just go to Quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Kwame with Big Swings Only. That's the best way to support the show. Beer.

53:44Oh, that's a good question. You want to go first? Ladies first? I mean, Kwame, we have something in common. Hmm. We both have pretty privilege. That's something we were born with. Oh! Wow. It's not pretty. It's real. That is true. That is, that's really interesting. That's really, go deeper on that because now I'm reflecting. Oh, this is good.

54:18So something that we were born with that wasn't crafted. I mean, right, like personality, boldness. I think those were things that were crafted over time. I was blind when I was in fourth grade. And so I was really used to overcoming adversity from a young age. And so what was I born with that I think has helped me is pretty privileged. And I see it. I am grateful that I've been able to get into rooms, right? There's early days for AntFlow. I wasn't able to afford any of the conferences. So I would reach out to people and ask if I could volunteer to be, you know, their help desk or their, you know, person that would allow people to come into the conference.

55:03I would offer to volunteer as like one of the badge, like giving out people's badges. And they'd always include my photo on my signature. Wow. Wow. You're the first person who has admitted that, you know, because I think people know. but they haven't, like they don't say it. And that's real. Because one of the things that I tell folks all the time, bias, the psychology of bias is an integral part of all of the strategies that I create. When it comes to the biases that exist, I think about the ones that are against me and I want to like snipe those preemptively so it doesn't become an issue. And then the ones that could work with me, I want to try to reinforce those as ethically as possible.

55:48And so it's funny because when I did the TED talk, I had a bit of a dad bod at the time. So I was like, I got to start working out. And so I started working out because I needed to look good on that stage. And so there were two major benefits. One, cognitive function and energy. I was really surprised at how much better I felt, how sharp, how much sharper I was, how much more energy I had. But then I also recognized that people started treating me differently. And so I cut a lot of wait to get to the TED stage. And then I said, well, I wonder what would how people would react if I start putting on more muscle.

56:25And it completely changed the way that people interact with me. It was really quite striking. And it makes you stand out too. So you're absolutely right. Your appearance will have a significant effect on on the way that you are received. And I think that that still can be crafted, right? Like I'm in physical therapy and my physical therapy appointments are always in the middle of the day. They're so inconvenient, but that's when they're available. available every time. I wear my business outfits because it's in the middle of the day. I'm told you are the best dressed physical therapy patient that we've ever had.

57:10It's overwhelming. That's just my outfits. We can all do that. We can all just do that because most people just show up in sweatpants and I get it. Also, my PT is paying extra attention and giving me extra time because I put a little bit of extra effort in personally as well. Yeah. It's recognizing the intangibles that actually have a measurable impact and accepting that because sometimes that is not easy to accept. This is a game that I know what game I'm playing and I will continue to play it. This is a game that some people decide they don't want to play. right? They don't want to lean into these like specific aspects, right?

57:55Like, oh, I don't want it to come down to my personality. I don't want it to come down to my looks, whatever. I recognize I'm going to look, I started when I was 18. I have a lot of things going against me. So if there's one thing that I can take that's going for me, I will take it and I will play that game. I will do it. I'll play the game. So Claire, before we wrap up, I know we have a really good idea of what the first 10 years of your entrepreneurial journey have been. But when you look at the next 10 years with AntFlow and otherwise, when you think about the impact that you want to have, what is on the horizon for you?

58:29Oh, well, there are 10 million female commercial bathrooms across the US and Canada. We're in 70 ,000 of them. So our focus is breaking 1%, then getting to 10%, then getting it all, right? We created the game and it's our turn to win it and that's our focus additionally we obviously stocking bathrooms with period care but these are we are launching a new product to continue to make disposal for period care better those metal bins with those nasty wax paper bags that's getting solved next and we're really excited to be launching that product to make sure that everybody has a clean and hygienic experience when disposing of products.

59:17Incredible. And that's really exciting. That's really exciting because that could be huge. And it's coming from your gut. So we know it will be huge. Yes. Butt decision for sure. Yes. So for the folks who want to learn more, want to follow you and keep up with what comes next and hopefully work with you to stock their bathrooms, what's the best way for them to keep in touch? Yes. Aunt Flo, go Aunt Flo on all social media platforms, Instagram, TikTok, etc. But I love connecting with people on LinkedIn. So send me a note. Claire Coder is the name. And if you're ready to advocate to bring Aunt Flo period products to your favorite bathroom From outside of the home, there are tons of advocacy resources that are available on our website.

1:00:07And Kwame, I understand, to be linked in the show notes. Yes, that's right. You're stealing my lines. You're stealing my lines. This is great. Claire, always a pleasure having you on. Keep on crushing it. Thanks for coming on the podcast. We will. Hey, everyone. I want to tell you about a podcast I'm really excited about. It's called The Anxious Achiever, and it's hosted by my good friend, Maura Ahrensmele, and it's part of the Yap Media Network. Here on Big Swings Only, we're all about going after the big stuff. But anyone who's taken a real swing knows anxiety usually comes along for the ride.

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