After Venezuela, Is Greenland Next?

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1:02Bloomberg Audio Studios. Podcasts. Radio. News. We start getting emails. We start hearing things that the president has started making comments about Greenland. President Donald Trump has wanted to gain control of Greenland for years. And after the raid on Venezuela and the capture of President Nicolas Maduro on Saturday, Trump started talking about the idea again. We need Greenland from the standpoint of national security. And Denmark is not going to be able to do it, I can tell you. Other figures in Trump's orbit started talking about Greenland, too. Stephen Miller, who works in the White House, his wife, Katie Miller, tweeted out a picture of Greenland with an American flag draped all over it, which stirred up a lot of controversy.

1:49And then Stephen Miller himself came on later, I believe it was on CNN, with one of the reporters, Jake Tapper. So I know you're treating this as breaking news. The president has been clear for months now that the United States should be the nation that has Greenland as part of our overall security apparatus. Some Trump administration officials have since tried to walk back some of the most aggressive rhetoric. Secretary of State Marco Rubio told lawmakers the goal is to buy Greenland from Denmark. But it's a hard bell to unring. I think the fact that these comments came right after the raid on Venezuela that got officials in Denmark and Greenland really worried.

2:32Sana Vaz covers the economy and politics of Denmark and Greenland from Bloomberg's Copenhagen Bureau. She says the substance and the timing of the Trump administration's Greenland comments are being taken very seriously by officials across Europe, who are members of the NATO Joint Defense Pact alongside the U.S. Suddenly it's gotten Europe worried because Greenland kind of could fall under Donald Trump's reinterpretation of the Monroe Doctrine. Venezuela illustrated to everyone that Trump is willing to do things we thought he wouldn't do. He's willing to break international law to achieve his aims.

3:17The question has been now for years, like, is that really what they want to do here? It's a fair conversation to have, especially from the point of view from Danish officials. Like if one day you wake up and the president of the United States is saying we want to own this territory that is actually under your flag. Right. It's not just rhetoric to them. It's not just. Yeah. Words mean something. Like even even if Donald Trump is loose with words, they always mean something. Joe Doe covers economic and corporate statecraft for Bloomberg. He spent a lot of time reporting on Greenland. You have the Danish premier saying if there's an attack that would effectively end NATO.

3:55So you're starting to get into the territory that, like, if we take this all very, very seriously, I mean, these are some massive, massive issues.

4:08I'm Sarah Holder, and this is The Big Take from Bloomberg News. Today on the show, what the U.S. attack in Venezuela and escalating White House rhetoric mean for Greenland. And where it all leaves NATO as it faces the prospect of a newly emboldened Russia.

4:30Donald Trump has been talking about taking over Greenland since 2019, when he first floated the idea of the U.S. buying the island as part of a large real estate deal. And he picked back up at the beginning of his second term. And I also have a message tonight for the incredible people of Greenland. We strongly support your right to determine your own future. And if you choose, we welcome you into the United States of America. In his joint address to Congress in March 2025, Trump made clear that having control of Greenland was still a priority. One way or the other, we're going to get it. I asked Bloomberg Sanavis and Joe Doe to remind us why Trump is so interested in Greenland.

5:18Officially, Trump says it's all about U.S. national security. The island basically sits right between the North Atlantic and the Arctic, and it essentially puts it right in the front line between U.S. and Russia. The U.S. already does have a military base in Greenland, and it's had a presence there for decades. The U.S. had dozens of installations, military installations, in Greenland during the Cold War, and then decided to scale back. What's changed now is climate change, for one thing. The Arctic ice is melting. It's opening up to new sea routes, but also potentially hostile ships and submarines having easier access to move through the region.

6:01Russia and China, they're expanding their Arctic presence. And Trump really sees Greenland as a potential weak spot in the nation's defense. The melting of the ice caps, right, and kind of the freeing up of essentially the Arctic circle is absolutely critical here. And I think from a defense department, from a Pentagon perspective, that is mission critical. And the U.S. could conceivably just set up more military bases in Greenland, right? They have a fairly easy path to do that under this 1951 treaty with Denmark. Why doesn't the administration see that as enough from a national security standpoint?

6:40I mean, that's the question that Danish officials and Greenlandic officials have been asking all along. Their point is that the U.S. can achieve their aims in terms of national security without taking control of Greenland. All it has to do is come and set up some more military bases. All it has to do is talk to Denmark about what it is that it needs there. We'll talk to Greenland as well about the possibilities. And Joe, so what are some of the other reasons that Greenland might be strategically interesting to the Trump administration? So critical minerals have been a key priority of his current administration.

7:20You marry that key priority with the fact that there is a wealth of critical minerals in Greenland. It's nearly impossible to unlock at commercial scale right now. But you've had a number of people trying to work out a way to make that work. I mean, the majority of the island is permafrost. You can't build anything in permafrost. I think what you have is there's a defense angle. There's a national security angle that's very real. And then you also have people trying to find out how to make a profit. Right. You know, I think on some of you just have people saying, OK, well, let's let's see if we can get ours.

7:54And it's so crude. But I think it's important to point out to people that that's out there as well. I mean, you're seeing it with Venezuela. You're seeing it with Ukraine. There is money behind all of this. We've heard a lot of variations from the Trump administration about how they could actually bring Greenland closer. There's the option of force, business deals. Trump urged Greenland's voters to choose the United States. People in Greenland, many of them say, you know, listen, some sort of independence sounds like a good idea. We'd like that. But the idea that like we would trade one European nation for a North American nation who, quote unquote, rules us, that's equally as bad.

8:35They want independence. They want independence. Is there a new specific plan here that's emerging? Joe, what is your latest reporting on how the U.S. might pursue closer ties with Greenland or a potential takeover? My reporting so far has shown, according to people familiar, nothing has changed. Nothing's changed. Donald Trump mentioned Greenland again. A month ago, I was in Washington, D.C., catching up with my sources there, and I asked among the many questions. This was very much the end of the conversation type of questions to these sources. Who would know? Where is Greenland right now in the pile of priorities?

9:16And the overwhelming response was Greenland. I mean, it's at the bottom of the pile. Nobody's talking about it right now. And now he's mentioned it multiple times in the past week. So in less than a month, we went from like, this is not a priority of the administration. They're not talking about it to Donald Trump is talking about it seemingly every day. And we go back to the reporting that we had, which was when he announced it, White House staffers were scrambling. You know, you got to present something to Donald Trump, to the president of the United States when he says, I've got a thing behind this.

9:51OK, so your latest reporting is that what these officials are looking to present are potential business deals that could give the U.S. a greater footprint on the island, like rare earth minerals mining projects or hydroelectric power ventures. And at the same time, Rubio reportedly told lawmakers this week that the U.S. wants to buy Greenland. How could something like that even work? Well, first of all, for a transaction to happen, you have to have a seller and a buyer who are both willing to transact. And right now, Denmark has made it very clear that they're not a willing seller. So if the supposed seller is not even at the table, like, then there's no transaction that can occur.

10:36And if we go back to this idea that like the U.S. is not going to use force, then we're just kind of at the same standstill that we've been the whole time. You know, I guess the to be sure on this is it goes back to the Stephen Miller interview where he said, you know, basically like we're not taking anything off the table here. Right. But then he also said, why would we take Greenland by force? If we want it, we don't have to take it by force with the idea being that you just show up on the shores and you just say, OK, it's ours now, you know, assuming that nobody is going to resist. I mean, then I don't know.

11:15You get into such uncharted territory. It's such a hypothetical. It's almost like dangerous to even like contemplate what we're talking about here. Yeah. But on Tuesday night, the White House issued the statement saying, quote, utilizing the U.S. military is always an option, unquote, when it comes to Greenland. Sana, what are we hearing from Danish officials about all of this? How are they interpreting the White House's intentions and what path forward do they see as the most likely at this stage? They've reacted very strongly. I mean, the Danish prime minister has been out several times in the past week telling Trump to stop issuing threats against Greenland, reiterating previous points that it is up to Greenland to decide its own future.

12:01At this stage, Danish officials hope that they can talk to Trump and dismantle some of the arguments that he has for taking control of Greenland. They believe that Trump is painting a completely wrong picture of the situation. Trump has said that Chinese and Russian ships are everywhere around Greenland. Denmark says that's wrong. Trump has said that Denmark hasn't invested in Greenland's defenses. Denmark says that's wrong, too. So they're really hoping that they can help clarify things and talk about a diplomatic solution going forward. It could be that they would enter a deal over the U.S. expanding its military presence in Greenland under existing treaties.

12:52So it could do that without getting into too much trouble with NATO. So that's not a scenario that Danish officials are necessarily hoping for, but they have said that they're open to the U.S. expanding or boosting its presence in Greenland. There's an idea coming from the Trump administration that a U.S. takeover of Greenland would benefit NATO, the Western military alliance intended to keep Russia in check. Stephen Miller made that case to CNN's Jake Tapper. The United States is the power of NATO. For the United States to secure the Arctic region, to protect and defend NATO and NATO interests, obviously Greenland should be part of the United States.

13:35And so that's a conversation that we're going to have. After the break, how NATO is responding to the White House's Greenland messaging and what it all means for European security and global geopolitics.

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14:53In the more than 75 years since NATO's creation, never has one member threatened to take territory from another. So Bloomberg Sanavas says the White House's comments about a U.S. takeover of Greenland have raised existential questions for NATO. Danish Prime Minister Mette Fragsen has said if Trump decides to attack a NATO ally, That would essentially mean the end to NATO. What I also think is happening now is that Trump is really testing EU unity, European unity. The big question mark is what happens if he actually moves into Greenland? It would force Denmark to turn to its EU partners for support, but essentially then force European countries to choose between protecting Greenland or maintaining relationships with Washington.

15:49And Europe doesn't really have the military strength to take on the US. So it would create a massive dilemma for many countries and it would really, really test the EU's strength and unity. I mean, even if the U.S.'s rhetoric doesn't rise to the level of military action, what kind of damage or questions has this raised for the organization moving forward? I mean, in Denmark, there is a big frustration that NATO countries are focusing all their energy on these internal conflicts. I'm sure Putin is following this closely on the sideline and just waiting for NATO to completely break down. Even if Trump doesn't do anything about Greenland, the threat is just creating internal conflict that will be an advantage for him.

16:45And Denmark has faced a lot of issues, Russia's shadow fleet and drone attacks that is now being investigated as possibly coming from Russia. Russia is obviously under its own pressure for its incursions into Ukraine. How is Russia reading this? Does it embolden Russia? I think there's probably a couple ways to look at it, which is one, there's a vacuum where Putin sees this as some sort of justification that you can kind of do what you want to do. I think this was a concern among geopolitical experts in the weekend over the U.S. removing Maduro from physically removing this man from Venezuela.

17:27I think there's another world where you look at it from like the Donald Trump hawk point of view, which is we are flexing muscle and showing our power all the way down to our special ops. Right. I mean, this is kind of an incredible extraction since the signal to Vladimir Putin and in Russia. I mean, I think Donald Trump, even during his first term, he he uses kind of a strong man rhetoric. Right. And he he's also in some ways backed that up. Right. The bombings of Iran back in the summer. This action. Right. On some level, it does it does show to important power players what the United States is capable of.

18:12Does it work? I don't know.

18:17Sana, for Greenland, where do things go from here? Denmark and Greenland, now they've asked Marco Rubio for a meeting, and that's for sure something that we'll be following. According to Greenlandic officials, they've been trying to get a meeting with him for the past year, but without any luck. I mean, Greenland's Prime Minister Jens-Farlick Nielsen, he's been out telling his people not to panic. He has said that Trump's comments are disrespectful and unacceptable. And he has also made it very clear that Greenland does not want to become a part of the U.S. And most, a large majority of Greenlanders agree with him on that.

19:00But he's clearly also treading carefully. And in his statements, it keeps on saying we are open to dialogue. We're open to business. The Greenlandic economy, it is under strain. They would really like to trade more with the U.S. They would like to get more investments from the U.S. So they may also, Greenlanders may also see maybe some opportunities not to give up control of their country, but to enter some deals and actually gain some economic benefits that way. The biggest challenge to this happening now is that Donald Trump's threats have made Greenlanders afraid. So it's really making it challenging for Greenlandic politicians to enter into any negotiations or dialogue with Donald Trump.

19:54Denmark has said we will do what we need to do. You tell us. You can put more bases on Greenland. Just talk to us about it. I do think we're in uncharted territory and you do have to start kind of connecting dots because like Donald Trump himself is not telling us. And I mean, as our reporting says, like, it seems like White House staffers don't even really know. So how are we, like, how is anyone else going to know?

20:28This is The Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder. To get more from The Big Take and unlimited access to all of Bloomberg.com, subscribe today at Bloomberg.com slash podcast offer. Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.

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