Jensen On The Ropes, Sam Altman’s Conflicts, Allbirds’ GPU Pivot

25:12Ranjan Roy:So those are my two, what's the cultural values. And then what's, is it, can we use Quinn to process our podcast transcripts and still be America first? It's a good question. So it's not, it's not black and white, right? There's nuance here. If you're building an enterprise software application or if you're trying to do hotel bookings, fine. But let's say there is a proliferation of AI consumer apps out there. And I don't think this is fear-marking. I think this is true, right? What happened when you tried to search for Tiananmen Square in DeepSeek? It was blocked. Now people were able to modify DeepSeek and, you know, strip that out.

25:51But it was only after modification. So I think, you know, if you're thinking about like, and again, this is the argument I think Jensen should make. I'm not 100 % sold on it. But if you're thinking about like, all right, if these models diffuse through the world and there are going to be applications built on top of them, who do you want to set the weights? The Chinese Communist Party or everybody else? I think the preference would be everyone else. That would be the argument if you're Jensen. I think that's a strong argument.

26:22Ranjan Roy:No, I do think it is interesting to me that the if the next soft power battle across the globe is at the LLM level. I think that does make a lot of sense and we should be. But again, that's not NVIDIA's decision to make. But it has, of course, it's not its decision, but it's a critical part of its business. And it's something that, while maybe unfair, Jensen should be better on when he talks about it. I agree. I mean, I think the main takeaway on all this is this is going to, I mean, going into an election year with AI is, it's going to be the poster child for everything wrong with the world. And then China's, these are the two single biggest like political negatives right now, China and AI within the US.

27:15Ranjan Roy:So I think maybe not the biggest, but two of the biggest and like, you got to be better responsible. prepared for that. That's the main takeaway. And I think Dworkish had a great point, by the way, which is like right now, as we speak, U.S. institutions, including the U.S. government, which we're about to get to, are evaluating mythos before it's released to the public. So wouldn't you want to be first? And if you give more compute to adversaries who we know are trying to, you know, at least hack into your systems, you're putting yourself at risk. and that's always going to be the compromise. All right.

27:56Ranjan Roy:Well, walk me through what's happening on the US government side this week. Okay. So first of all, I think let's just start with this. Last week, we had a big discussion, mythos or marketing. Mythos, real or marketing? I don't think you can say 100 % conclusively now, but certainly the data points suggest that mythos is more real than marketing, which is kind of crazy. This is from the AI Security Institute. I brought this up at the Pentagon this week with Emil Michael. We're going to talk about it in a moment. They say, we conducted cyber evaluations of Claude Mythos Preview and found that as the first model to complete an AI SI cyber range end-to-end, the range simulates a 32-step corporate network attack from initial reconnaissance to full takeover.

28:43And we estimate that it would take a human expert 20 hours to complete. So, of course, there's some flaws in this evaluations, but the fact that Mythos was able to complete this end-to-end is a bit spooky and I think that you're starting to see the seriousness of the Mythos model manifest itself in the way that lots of companies and especially the U.S. government are dealing with Anthropic now because there seems to be a universal acknowledgement that whether it's Mythos or whether it's the next iteration of this, you got to take this stuff seriously. So I'm going to not say we shouldn't take it seriously.

29:27Ranjan Roy:I've had more questions on this in the last week since we spoke last Friday when I walked our listeners through what was clearly a very, very coordinated PR stunt about a sandwich in the park from Anthropic. And I actually had spoken with a few listeners and like, and it was funny because it's, that becomes so clearly a marketing tactic. So what I had spoken about this week was, is Mythos like glass wing and the way it rolled out? And I, again, cybersecurity as well is not where I've spent a lot of my time. So like typically if you have this model that can do these zero day exploits and can actually start to piece all of this together.

30:13Ranjan Roy:And like, why make such a big deal about Glasswing? Like normally, like any model rollout would have had some kind of security check. And maybe you're working with other companies as well. But instead, they made this like, and I spoke with someone who works at one of the large companies who's on the cybersecurity team, who was kind of like invited to be part of Glasswing. And the way they were speaking was literally like they got into it, like we're like a VIP invited to some event. Like it, the marketing is, when it's that good, I just, I have a hard time believing it. But what do you think is actually, do you think there is a step change with Mythos that actually represents some massive new vulnerability and it's actually going to be patched up in the next three to six months as Glasswing gets together and finds all the potential vulnerabilities.

31:12Ranjan Roy:Do you think that's what's going to happen aside from the marketing, but then also address the marketing as well? I'm curious. Okay. First of all, I'll say, this is the counter argument, and I think it's really good. People have said marketing at every step of the way. And we've talked about it also. And the capabilities just keep getting better. So at a certain point, like when are you going to say, all right, well, maybe this is real or not? I don't know. I can't tell you I don't have an answer but I can tell you that it's working oh it's working it's working by the way I just thought like wouldn't it be it wouldn't this just be a setup of like a great movie uh where Dario just like takes a heel turn and says I tried to be nice I tried to tell you what my models can do you didn't believe me now I will use the power of mythos for evil and make a society believe in the technology I've created and he just becomes this black hat cyber hacker and takes down society and bets it to his will.

32:10Ranjan Roy:That's what, like guys, for how good the marketing is, that's the picture you are painting in our heads with all of this talk right now. Like if you really cared, like I get there's value, marketing value in like creating this godlike complex around the models that are being released, but it just makes people more uncomfortable with the industry. Like actually, so what I can't get through is like, okay, let's say you have this in your hand and you realize that if we are to release this, this will, has a potential to kind of like make every single small, medium and large company completely vulnerable to hacking has a potential to kind of like take down the entire fabric of our economy.

32:57Ranjan Roy:The digital fabric, at least like, like what would you do? Would you do a coordinated press release and have a project glasswing and then still work on releasing it because you just raised another$30 billion at$380 billion valuation and still keep raising? Like, wouldn't you take a pause and just be like, maybe we should all just try to address what's actually happening here rather than coordinate a marketing campaign that leads to another funding round? I mean, wouldn't you try to fix it? whatever, like really fix it, not use it as a lever to kind of further the economic gains that you continue to accrue.

33:39No, because the idea is, and we should move on because this, we talked about this a lot last week. I think the idea is it's all intertwined. You need to keep growing to keep ahead. So you're able to give this to certain companies to try ahead of time because otherwise you might have, you know, well, I mean, they would say companies that are less trustworthy, But I think Dworkish made the point that it could be other countries with different values that get ahead. And then all of a sudden they start the hacking. And we saw this, by the way, the downstream effects of this with Dario on his way to the White House.

34:17He's actually there today. This is from Axios. Anthropics CEO Dario Amadei is scheduled to walk into the West Wing on Friday for a meeting with White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles. a breakthrough in his effort to resolve the company's bitter AI fight with the Pentagon. The Trump administration recognizes the power of Anthropik's new Claude model mythos and its highly sophisticated and potentially dangerous ability to breach cyber defenses. It would be grossly irresponsible for the U.S. government to deprive itself of the technological leaps that the new model presents. A source close to the negotiations told us it would be a gift to China.

34:51Oh, that sounds like Anthropik comms to me. What do I know? But, but, but look, there's now, there's now, I think this is a good thing. There's now a thawing, it seems like, between Anthropoc and the federal government. So I think if you're the federal government, you have to take this seriously. And if you're Anthropoc, I think you're doing the right thing by getting in there. And is there a chance it's marketing? Maybe. But ultimately, I think that this is sort of the news here is that this is going to create a, at least a thaw between Anthropoc and the White House.

35:23Ranjan Roy:Well, but again, what do you think would happen if they released Mythos today? Like, what do you think would really happen? And what do you think will happen within the current way they're rolling this out? Do you think if they were to release this today that cyber – that hackers would penetrate every defense for even the largest companies in the world or – No, not necessarily. I mean, we spoke about it last week. you know we don't but clearly there's some there's some incremental i mean incremental abilities i the the institute that i quoted earlier like they are independent as far as i'm aware i think they're uk based i don't think they have any incentive to you know fluff this up um with microsoft microsoft's in this uh in this um you know project glass wing they're big investors in open ai so i don't know anyway i think we should move on from the marketing but You can get a last word in.

36:20Ranjan Roy:One last thought. Rather than your Dario heel turn that sounded kind of like an Avengers movie, I want to see it go the other way where actually Dario and Sam come on stage and OpenAI has been invited to Glasswing and together they are giving mythos to their biggest competitor. And everyone is going to make this work hand in hand. That's the plot twist I want to see. I love it. maybe even hands holding hands like they didn't do previously. Yeah, exactly. But I think you're right. I think peace is a good place to take this because we could see peace between Anthropica and the Pentagon. And of course, I was in the Pentagon earlier this week speaking with Emil Michael, the undersecretary of war, who is the one that banned Anthropica.

37:06And I asked him, you know, you've made peace with Google, who was on the out with the Pentagon for a while. Can you make peace with Anthropik? And he said, I think so. He said, I hope that companies, as they get more mature and more of an understanding of what it means to work with the government and understand us better, get to a good spot hopefully sooner than eight years. I think that was interesting. It was the first interview where Emil opened up the door to possible reconciliation with Anthropik. And I think that's a good thing. Do you think it'll happen? Yes, I do. I really do think that this is, that they will.

37:45they will find um some common ground and get back to work together i think the pentagon likes anthropic honestly they're just the technology they're clod pilled all right um before we go to break i do want to address something because we definitely had some and i don't know if i really should i don't want this to come off as defensive but i think it's like good to like take a moment to sort of explain uh the way that that i you know i operate on this show um and uh and there were some questions about like, why did you go into the Pentagon and ask these questions? And I'll just read, there was one review on Apple Podcasts that I think is worth addressing.

38:25Alex displays a clear pattern of showing deference to the rich and the powerful. His interviews with OpenAI and Trump admin leaders have been extremely deferential. His questions to Dario were much more pointed and journalistic. It seems like Alex is truly dedicated to sucking up to the most evil people in America. The episodes with Ranjan are cool, though two stars um first of all i'll just say uh we i i appreciate listener feedback i i i'm glad to hear from listeners i'm i it's a privilege to be able to do this show for an audience so so thank you i'll also say the two-star reviews really are they they they're aimed at they they in practice um have an effect of really harming the show so um i'd much rather these come in through big technology podcast at gmail.com which is in the show notes um or if you have a criticism five-star it and write it and we'll take it seriously send us hate mail send us hate mail i but i do i i do think it's worth addressing sort of the style that i have of interviews and sort of

39:21Ranjan Roy:what happened with emil oh i want to i want to ask you i'm going to put alex on the spot here like one of the fascinating parts of the whole dworkish jensen interview is like everyone's like oh my god it was heated it was pointed in reality 10 years ago that would have been any normal interview because like, and now we have the podcast circuit and I'm certainly going to exclude big technology podcasts from that. And I think you do push a lot of the guests in a hard way, but like, how does it work? Like, cause if you rip apart a CEO, does, do people want to come on the show? Like, how do you balance that tension at a personal level?

40:05Ranjan Roy:Like to try to make this a success. So this is great setup because this is my philosophy here. I really think the job is to get newsmakers in the room and ask them the hardest questions possible. I think the reason a lot of these TV interviews or these hard interviews and these back and forth, did you order the code red? There is value in asking officials tough questions. I think the reason why people became disenchanted with the media is because it became more about showboating for the journalist and more performative than it became inquisitive trying to find the answers to these tough questions.

40:46And, you know, I think Jensen became very defensive in this conversation with Dwarkesh, which is why it led to this sort of heated back and forth. But my style in particular, I try to go in, I want to ask the people I'm sitting across from the hardest possible questions I can, but I also want to do it in a respectful way. I want to have a conversation about it. For me, it's not about a performative thing. And I think if you look at the transcript of the conversation with Emil, even though it was conversational, there were, I believe, tough questions there. I mean, I mentioned to him that I'm puzzled by the supply chain risk designation.

41:22I mentioned to him, if you were so close to being willing to work with Anthropic, then how could they end up being supply chain risk? On Mythos, I mentioned, wouldn't you want this tool at this disposal? You're putting your, aren't you putting yourself in a corner when you're not taking these capabilities and using the ones you want? And then on this idea that Anthropic could shut them off. you know i think i i mentioned like you you have claude you could have you are building a system with claude grok and open ai in there or you're on your way um and if claude has an update you don't like you wouldn't you just be able to run open ai on it so why shut off the relationship for me i don't think i need to yell or sort of be like you know did why did you do this uh i think there there is like basically what i want to do is to to ask what i'm curious about get the toughest questions in front of these people but also do it in the context of a conversation.

42:15And if there's there, I'm open to all forms of criticism. If there's like, this was too conversational or the pushback wasn't good enough, I'm open it. But the, you know, I would say don't mistake the conversational nature for this idea that these people are getting a free ride. Because if you listen to any of the more recent interviews with Emil, those questions were not asked. So that's just my piece. And I thought it was worth saying.

42:40Ranjan Roy:No, I, I, not to, not to glaze Alex here a bit for listeners, but I think that is, yeah, I think that's what I find valuable. And I do like that, that like you can be, it doesn't have to be confrontational. Like, and any leader at that level, I feel should, and I, that's probably why the guests you are getting, they're just getting kind of crazier and crazier good. Like, I mean, like if you're at that level of success, you shouldn't want tough questions. You should be ready. Like that's, I don't know, like maybe it's being a former debater myself, but you should want to have questions and most do.

43:15Ranjan Roy:And it like makes them better and smarter. And yeah, I think there's not enough of that out in the world. So even for this listener, I just make it five stars. At least they like the Friday shows. They like the Friday shows. You're saving this thing. from we got to disagree when we come back on something vehemently on all birds um all birds you got to say it's good yeah but i don't want my my point here to be mistaken as uh please don't criticize me i'm open to criticism i want to hear it we have the email address big technology podcast at gmail.com and i i take the comment seriously because again like um this is this is only possible because we have an audience and uh and you're if you're listening or at home or watching your opinion does really matter.

44:04All right, let's take a break and come back and talk a little bit about Sam Altman. We'll be back right after this. Starting something new isn't just hard, it's terrifying. So much work goes into this thing that you're not entirely sure will work out, and it can be hard to make that leap of faith. When I started this podcast, I wasn't sure if anybody would listen. Now I know it was the right choice. It also helps when you have a partner like Shopify on your side to help. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of business around the world and 10 % of all e-commerce in the U.S. From household names like Allbirds and Cotopaxi to brands just getting started.

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46:36It just makes sense. It tells the world, your customers, your investors, anyone Googling you, that you're building in technology. Clean, direct, no qualifiers. And I'm seeing more serious startups lean into it. nothing.tech, 1x.tech, aurora.tech, ces.tech, ultra.tech, alice.tech, neuron.tech, blaze.tech, pi.tech, and so many more. If you're building something tech first, don't settle. Secure your .tech domain from any registrar of your choice and make your positioning obvious from day one. And we're back here on Big Technology Podcast Friday edition. Wow, today's flown by. Let's talk about this story in the Wall Street Journal about Sam Altman's side hustles, which is interesting because the headline was Sam Altman's side hustles blur the line between OpenAI's interests and his own.

47:20That was not the story. The Wall Street Journal in this story about Sam Altman's conflicts, which he basically, you know, I'll just give it at a high level. He doesn't really take a story from a salary from OpenAI, but he has these investments in like the OpenAI startup fund and in other startups. And he's tried to get OpenAI to fund some of these other startups, like Helion, which is a fusion company, and Stokespace, which is a SpaceX challenger. This is the thing that really stunned me in the article, and I don't know why this wasn't the headline. OpenAI's leaders and largest investors say they support Altman, crediting him with the company's success.

48:02Yet some shareholders have begun to privately question whether he should lead OpenAI through the turbulence of going public and a floated board chair and former Salesforce CEO Brett Taylor as a potential successor, said people familiar with the matter. Hold on. You're going to bury this notion that there are people, there are investors, there are OpenAI investors who are so uncomfortable with Sam that they are already floating a specific name of a person to replace him? That to me is the story. Well, I think, I mean, in a way though, it makes sense.

48:35Ranjan Roy:Like I think for all the problems that, or all the challenges they're facing, they're not necessarily problems yet that have been realized. Like, I feel like, I mean, Brett Taylor, I think he's on the board of OpenAI, CEO of Sierra. Or, uh, like he's, uh, I mean, that's kind of like operator that open AI still lacks and Fiji Simo was supposed to come in and be that operator. Denise Dresser might be that operator more so, but like they still haven't found, I mean, I hate the, everyone, remember everyone used to say like their shit, uh, Sheryl Sandberg to Mark Zuckerberg. Like, uh, they're still looking forward.

49:15Ranjan Roy:So I think, uh, yeah, it's, it's not unreasonable. I think you're going to be seeing more of these kinds of leaks at some point because there has to be investors that there's a lot of money in it. There's a lot of kind of lack of clear strategy still, even after they're supposed to kind of bring focus to the company. So I think you're going to be seeing a lot more of this as we get into this IPO race and battle against Anthropic. Yes. First of all, I just want to say, I am mostly against this, you need an adult in the room type of operator CEO. You don't need a Sheryl Sandberg. I think they just, they take out the imagination of companies and I much prefer, I think founder-led companies are where it's at.

49:59And that sort of - No, founder-led with the adult in the room.

50:02Ranjan Roy:I feel like Snapchat, like that's one thing that always they never had. I think like overly founder-led. Then you have like an NVIDIA where founder-led, but years of maturity and development, and then they hit their stride in insanely successful ways. So yeah, I think an adult in the room is an adult. You're right, especially as an IPO approaches, right? And by the way, Brett Taylor, a combination of Sierra and OpenAI would make so much sense, especially as OpenAI goes after enterprises. It would be a perfect match. I would be stunned if they haven't talked about that within OpenAI with all this money that they have to invest.

50:46But hold on. Oh, yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead.

50:49Ranjan Roy:Wait, but he's on the – isn't he the chair of the board? Yes. How does that – I can't even get it. But at this point, conflict of interest has never been a problem. You know, we've seen the much weirder shit happen in this industry. That was the most naive thing I've ever said on this show. Get your head out of 1995. We're in 2026. Okay. But you're right. It is going to, you know, sort of come to a head as this company goes to an IPO. And let me read on in the Wall Street Journal story. Am I excited to be a public company CEO? 0%, Altman said on a podcast in December. Am I excited for OpenAI to be a public company?

51:30In some ways I am. And in some ways I think it would be really annoying. He said it on a podcast in December. Hmm, which podcast was that, Wall Street Journal? But yeah, it's an issue for, I mean, if you think broadly about OpenAI, it is an issue, right? They are chasing anthropic to some degree or even a large degree, right? they're pivoting towards this anthropic model of the super app, the Fiji thing. You know, of course it was for medical reasons, but it's a pretty rough time for her to be away. And Sam is doing his thing. He's obviously raising a lot of money. That's critical. But it's not good to have questions about, it's not good for your investors to be talking about a potential successor while you're with less than a year away from an initial public offering

52:20Ranjan Roy:see i'm gonna i'm gonna push back on that good do it people have been talking about potential successor for a long time like again fiji gets announced potential successor is that the real move here like uh brett so so that part doesn't worry me as much and again as you said wait how much did they raise in the last round 122 billion that's he's doing i mean if you're the ceo in your job is to get funds he's doing an okay job wouldn't you what you say so so this was while i was out on vacation and i was in utah and we got some snow and i was able to ski and i actually didn't look at my phone too much and i like saw the headline i'm like how but it it kind of was just like a blip in the news cycle like 122 billion at 852 billion dollar valuation like I don't know how it's it's amazing and they are chasing anthropics strategically they're going after enterprise again like mythos gets released and then five four cyber gets released right after it's like everything they're doing is right after anthropic and following them yet they freaking raised 122 billion and it's just become so par for the course now that that wasn't even the biggest story in the world or at least in the tech world.

53:38Yeah. No, I mean, you're right. I mean, and that's all Altman. So I don't know if others can do that.

53:44Ranjan Roy:He's doing his job. Yeah. Okay. We are running up on time and we need to at least leave seven minutes to talk about Allbirds. Okay. Can I begin? I mean, this is one of those stories where you see the news come in and then you just wait for Matt Levine at Bloomberg to weigh in. So if you will, allow me to just read Matt Levine. He says, I feel like if you ran a big technology company and you were looking to expand your artificial intelligence capabilities and needed to rent access to GPUs, and a GPU as a service slash AI cloud company came to pitch you, and you said, so tell me a bit more about your company.

54:24And the company said, well, two weeks ago, we were a sneaker company, but have since pivoted to AI. You might say, huh, but thanks, but no thanks for going to go with someone with a bit more AI expertise and actually a data center. But maybe that's wrong. Maybe the sneaker guys are great at AI, but you might worry. But if you said, so tell me a bit about your company and the company said, well, two weeks ago, we were a sneaker company called Allbirds, but we have pivoted to AI. Your reaction might be different because in this hypothetical, you run a big technology company and you probably spent years wearing Allbirds.

54:56I used to love Allbirds, you might say. High five. And then you might sign a long-term cloud hosting agreement with the former Allbirds because, like many tech executives, you have a nostalgic fondness for their brand. It's not likely, but it's worth a shot. This all sets up the fact that Allbirds pivoted to an AI computing infrastructure company this week. Their stock went up 582 % on the day of, and somehow this is a real thing that happened. I mean, Bronjam, what the hell is this? This is ridiculous.

55:32Ranjan Roy:So I know we only have a few minutes left, so I'm going to try to be a little concise with this story. You go. You have five minutes. It's all yours. Allbirds, I have a very long relationship with the company in the sense that, So I worked for a number of years at Adore Me, a direct-to-consumer intimate apparel company. In 2021, we were at like$250 million revenue. We were like looking at going public. And that was as Allbirds was going to market. There was actually 2021 summer into the fall was this kind of like DTC, rent the runway. There's a number of other DTC companies that went public. And I love this Matt Levine part because the bankers we spoke with, like, all wore Allbirds.

56:20Ranjan Roy:And they were like the ones, the only ones. The VCs were the only ones. And it actually, you could tell, affected Allbirds at kind of a similar, slightly larger revenue, went out to market at$2 billion on the first day, popped to a$4 billion valuation. It was like 20X, 18X price to sales, which is insane, is insane. But the momentum of the people with money who do the investing, loving the brand, actually being the ones to push it, and the stock just collapsed. And the reason this was so funny is like it became a penny stock. They essentially went bankrupt. They got bought out for I think$39 million in the end.

57:01Ranjan Roy:I'm sure most people don't see anyone wearing all birds around. They shut down all their stores. But I kind of like this ridiculous pivot. It's just, it's like you have this asset and that, this is why Matt Levine is Matt Levine. He got it. That is the asset. This nostalgic, like, it's almost like you're buying a marketing asset and a brand asset rather than you're just a nameless faceless GPU AI cloud as a service company or whatever. And it's obviously like the stock market. It's almost bad that the stock popped 600 % on the first day and then collapsed, I think, 580 % the next day. No, no, it collapsed some like 80-something percent, but it's back up.

57:47It's up 191 % on the week.

57:50Ranjan Roy:Yeah, but it's at$105 million market cap right now. I just checked. I mean, but again, if your company is essentially worth zero, that's still a pretty good market cap. But I kind of like buy up. This is my new private equity idea for everyone. If anyone wants to run with it, go with it. Go buy any dead brand that investors and VCs and tech executives and bankers loved at some point. Just take their name and turn it into a GPU company as a service company. Take the most boring infrastructure business you can imagine. Go buy some – what do you think some good 2010s tech brands are that have left us?

58:34Ranjan Roy:I'm trying to think what else could be in Allbirds. But that's my idea. There's got to be a portfolio. Go get BuzzFeed. Go get BuzzFeed. BuzzFeed would be good. Go get BuzzFeed. WeWork. WeWork, DPU company. Take all those 2010s. And because I actually saw there is something around like dead startups are actually able to still sell their Slack threads and email lists and stuff for training data for AI. Which is horrifying. No, no. But let's take all of the graveyard of 2010s and bring it back and just – they're all going to be GPU as a service companies. But that industry is so unsexy and there's so few names available right now that are memorable.

59:15Ranjan Roy:and just slap on WeWork, BuzzFeed, Allbirds, whatever else. And that's the idea. Start your roll-up company. That will turn the tide on AI. You take these beloved consumer brands, you turn them into GPU companies, and all of a sudden you see the AI ratings in the polls just go through the roof, and Jensen starts nailing his interviews, and the Pentagon and Anthropic, and Anthropic and OpenAI make peace, and we all live in a better world. That's peace. that's where we're going to end up if you follow this idea. We can only hope. We can only hope. All right. Let's end on this message. Ranjan, thank you again for coming on the show.

59:53Appreciate it.

59:53Ranjan Roy:World peace is a good place to end. World peace. Thank you to you, the listeners. We'll see you next time on Big Technology Podcast. Security program on spreadsheets, new regulations piling up, and audit dread? It's time for Vanta. Vanta automates security and compliance, brings evidence into one place, and cuts audit prep by 82%. Less manual work, clearer visibility, faster deals. Zero chaos. Call it compliance or call it compliance. Get it? Join the 15 ,000 companies using Vanta to prove trust. Go to Vanta.com slash com.