Kamala's Tech Agenda, Drunken AI Spending, Meta’s Open Source Necessity

27:56Maybe YouTube was earnings expectations. Maybe YouTube was a little bit slower than expected. But should we take a moment to appreciate how well Google has handled the moment? And maybe some of that was luck because people haven't gone to Bing instead of Google and that search business remains strong. I mean, this quarter it grew 11. It grew at search business 11%. Last quarter it grew at 13%. And we're not talking about small numbers, right? This is from the Wall Street Journal. Alphabet reported Google generated$64.6 billion in ad sales April to June, an increase of 11 % in the same year. And so, yes, it's spending more, but it has to spend more.

28:40And it's good that it's spending more as opposed to giving up. But it's growing its business at an incredible clip. It's no longer sort of a laggard, I would say, in AI. and the competitive pressure from AI is just not hitting it the way that we expected. So is this a moment where we should like stand up and say, holy crap, Google did it? I'm sorry, Sundar. I'm sorry for ever saying you should be fired. I don't think we called for his firing. I just think we discussed it very seriously. We discussed it. We said, should Sundar stay or go? And the fact that that wasn't even in conversation probably six months ago, I agree that they've even in aggressive measures I don't know if you saw like in part of their deal with Reddit uh now only Reddit search results will only be allowed to show up in Google and not other uh search engines like DuckDuckGo like they're still playing hardball they're playing aggressive they are pushing in the whether that's good or not is a different question but uh look at all the money they're making it's great no no whether it's good for the internet and society is a different question but it's good for google i'm kidding no no they do seem thoughtful though they're that they're pushing hard and yeah on in in the whole generative ai space i mean they are like amazon is actually the one i think on the enterprise side aws and i mean i know your conversation from a couple weeks ago was actually the first time i heard a clear vision of what they're trying to push and how they're thinking.

30:16But I don't know whether they're just avoiding that public conversation. And in one-on-one sales meetings, this is all being communicated, but Google certainly is telling their story, showing numbers on the cloud side, and it looks in a decent space, at least relative to where they were six months ago. Yeah. I think I'm writing about that this week in big technology, just like Google survived and it's a big deal. The other, but hold on, because OpenAI is coming after them. So this is from a story from the Wall Street Journal. OpenAI is launching a search engine. It's called Search GPT, taking direct aim at Google.

30:59And this is from the story. OpenAI is launching a test version of its long-awaited search engine, which it says will cite sources of information, including news from business partners like the Wall Street Journal and the Atlantic. A tool called Search GPT will summarize the information found on websites, including news sites, and tell users to let users ask follow-up questions, just like they currently can with ChatGPT. It's its most direct challenge yet to Google. Since the release of ChatGPT in 2022 caught the tech company flat-footed, Google this year widely rolled out its own AI search feature that synthesizes information from multiple web sources.

31:38and of course told people to eat rocks for a minute, but then ultimately that faded and we haven't heard anything about AI overviews since. So do you think this is a real challenge? I mean, couldn't you have like asked ChetGPT about the news already? No, no, but they would actually, they were very careful and cautious about the types of answers and saying I can only search up to a certain date or I can't find real-time information. I think this could be big. I think this could be a threat, but to me, this is almost more of a threat short term to a perplexity. Yeah. Again, I've seen even more and more still when it's informational, I go to perplexity.

32:21When it's something more kind of analytical or I know is going to be more of an in-depth conversation, I go to a Claude or ChatGPT. If it's something more, Gemini actually is not bad in the informational space. But I think this was definitely perplexity is the leader in this space. And it could be a huge threat to them if it's done well. But I still wonder, this is not an enterprise product. This is a consumer facing product. And OpenAI as a company, is this what they really need to be doing? Or do they need to be building out their API and working with companies and building out an enterprise sales team and figuring out how to get people to trust them versus another cool consumer facing thing that already exists.

33:09Maybe both. But I would also say that this is probably tied into what we were talking about before, which is it's spending all this money and losing money. And it might be scrambling now to try to find new business applications and search is a fairly straightforward. I mean, with AI, maybe not, but there are keywords in there. It seems fairly like like a straightforward business to add on to like your more experimental businesses. And I'll add one more thing, which is that I am scratching my head and saying, is this a sign that OpenAI is fundraising? And I'm sure all these companies are always fundraising, but are they seriously fundraising now?

33:46Because you sort of show that, hey, we have a search business. And in your PowerPoint presentations, you say this is the total addressable market of search. and we've now tacked that on to our broader ai market and so we have near-term and long-term revenue potentially coming in search gpt give us the cash what do you think that's not a bad uh that's not a bad theory because there is part of like the reporting that came out was you know they're burning tons of cash and their runway could be shrinking i think i saw like 12 to 18 months out there wow um so i mean if you're losing 5 billion and i think they've raised 12 13 um obviously it will catch up with you at some point.

34:29So I like this theory. I think that could be the case. You throw out a couple of different business models to add slides on in the fundraising deck, and maybe that can help you. I do think, though, when we say search is a good business the way it is for Google, I don't think AI search is a good business yet. Because, again, we have talked about this. No one has figured out the model perplexity said. We'll put in some like suggested results and links and stuff like that. But we don't know if this is a good business. We know it's an in-demand business and someone will or could come up with the right business model, but definitely we don't know what that is yet.

35:13So another story that I think is really worth mentioning here when it comes to talking about whether these companies are going to have a lead, whether this is going to be commoditized, right? Because that's what we've been talking about. Is OpenAI and Anthropic going to be able to survive? Is it big tech? How about this? So Elon Musk said that he's built what he calls the most powerful AI training cluster in the world. And we got into it a little bit on the Wednesday show with GitHub, the GitHub CEO. But I think that, you know, I've thought about a little bit more. And I think that this is massive news, totally underappreciated.

35:44And Elon says he's going to use it to create the world's most powerful AI by every metric by December this year. And it sounds like typical Elon Musk bluster, but this is from Tom's Hardware. He's going to call it the Memphis supercomputer. To put the Memphis supercomputer, super cluster, sorry, Memphis super cluster, to put the Memphis super cluster compute resources in some context, going by scale, it's easily outclasses anything in the most recent top 500 list in terms of GPU horsepower. So the world's most powerful computers, such as the Frontier, which has 37 ,000 AMD GPUs, Aurora, which is 60 ,000 Intel GPUs, and Microsoft Eagle, 14 ,000 NVIDIA H100 GPUs, seem to be significantly outgunned by the XAI machine.

36:38And we're going to talk about the meta open AI, sorry, the meta open source model fairly soon. But their Llama 3.1 was trained on 16 ,000 NVIDIA H100s. So Elon Musk is putting together a supercomputer that's going to do multiples of that 100 ,000 GPUs and 100 ,000 H100 GPUs. And you put that all together, if this is really a scale game, does he have a chance later this year to create, by far the best, most capable large language model in existence? I think he has a chance. I don't think, like we've talked a lot about this, is scale the only game? And I don't think it is. I think making a bold claim, especially when your main company's earnings aren't coming out well and your stock drops 12 % the next day is not unheard of from Elon.

37:32And I think like, it sounds exciting, but I genuinely don't know if it is. Because I think it's still, again, is this purely a scale game? What kind of large language model can truly be generated? Because even there's been a lot of talk around like, does Moore's Law apply for generative AI? And I think it'll be interesting to see, one, does this really happen? And two, what the actual impact of this would be? I mean, who knows? Maybe XAI does build the world's most powerful LLM and then Grok gets a sweetheart deal and turns into the chatbot that we all use and beats Claude and ChatGPT and everyone else.

38:16But as with many other things, Elon, I'll believe it when I see it. Yeah. Okay. That is definitely a fair caveat, but I'm also surprised this didn't get more run this week, especially like think about what would have happened, what would have happened if OpenAI or even Meta would have said that they're building a supercomputer. I think it's a genuine fatigue among the press with Elon. That it's like, this could be exciting. But again, the moment it's real, the moment it's seen, the moment he's showing it to reporters or showing the output of what they can produce, then people will be excited. But otherwise, I think people are just taking things with a grain of salt.

38:58Yeah, I guess he's earned that. And he's also talked about whether Tesla should invest$5 billion. in xai most of his twitter followers say yes so maybe that happens i don't know i would not be happy with that if i was a tesla shareholder that stuff i can't even look at because it's like from just a capital markets uh standpoint and just the fact that this stuff is happening and again like as your company your revenue is slowing your margins are collapsing you're talking about you're throwing up Twitter polls about whether you should divert more money to like a like internal deal basically is is bothersome to me but listeners can understand where I generally stand on at least the kind of dealing business dealings of Elon yeah Tesla even with a run-up in the most recent month is down 11 % on the year and S &P 500 is up 13 % okay one more bit of AI news you know, we're in this kind of moment of, we're not quite a disillusionment yet.

40:04We're not quite at that trough, but we seem to be peering over the edge. But that being said, we're in this moment where we're going to have, I think, less and less enthusiasm about AI coming from the public, but also more and more impressive breakthroughs. And I'll put this development from DeepMind in the latter category, right? An impressive breakthrough where they have created a model. It's called Alpha Proof, and it specializes in math reasoning. And they also have this new one called Alpha Geometry II, which focuses on geometry. And this is from Bloomberg. The program aced four of the six problems featured in the International Math Olympiad, an annual competition in which students tackled topics such as algebra and geometry.

40:52Okay, here's why I think this is significant. I think there is a reasoning element here, which is that like with a typical large language model, you ask something and it just like combs its massive amount of information and then spits back an answer. With these math problems, you actually have to work through step by step. That's how it works. And the fact that this thing was able to answer four of six questions correct is, I would say, extremely impressive. What do you think? I think it's definitely impressive. I think, again, that barrier between showing genuine reasoning and where we are today, where it's clear that LLMs don't actually think, they're basically analyzing and just predicting next letter, next word.

41:37I think if that could be shown, we've talked about this a lot, agentic AI and building AIs that can actually perform a network of tasks and be able to reason at every step of the way without having a predefined choice or behavior given to them. If that gets solved, it really will be massive because that will be the kind of like step change in terms of how effective this could be at solving problems. So I think this stuff is interesting. I kind of like how you said. To me, I'm actually excited by the fact that overall enthusiasm is going down while real improvement is happening. Honestly, that's where I want Gen AI to be right now.

42:24You're a trough man. That's really where you stand. I'm a trough guy. I'm a trough guy. The trough is where we do our best. That's true. The trough is where we're all at our best. Respect the trough. Respect the trough. Respect the trough. We should get to hats that say respect the trough. Again, for people unfamiliar, trough of disillusionment is part of the Gartner hype cycle. Get your Gartner right, people. Yeah. All right. Let's talk about the meta open source model and Southwest Airlines canceling or ditching open seating right after this. We'll take a quick break and we'll be back momentarily.

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44:08You're used to hearing my voice on the world bringing you interviews from around the globe. And you hear me reporting environment and climate news. I'm Carolyn Beeler. And I'm Marco Werman. We're now with you hosting The World Together. More global journalism with a fresh new sound. Listen to The World on your local public radio station and wherever you find your podcasts.

44:36And we're back here on Big Technology Podcast, Friday edition, breaking down the week's news. I'm here with Ronjan Roy of Margins. We're going to talk a little bit about this meta open source model. So this is from The Verge. Meta releases the biggest and best open source AI model yet. It's called Llama 3.1. It's the largest ever open source AI model. it is bit trained as we talked about on 1600 nvidia h100 gpus um verge says meta isn't disclosing the cost but it's safe to guess it's in the hundreds of millions of dollars it has a very big context window 128 000 tokens it has support in english spanish portuguese italian german thai french hindi and it's available on aws azure google oracle and then there's companies like Scale AI, Dell and Deloitte that are going to implement it.

45:28So basically the argument here is that this is a frontier model. It's one of the most capable AI models. It's open source. It's largely free to use and Meta is releasing it. And they are basically saying we're committed to open source. So you might be paying, you know, OpenAI per token when you use its models, but you'll pay us nothing and you can customize it however you want. Talk a little bit about the significance of this move, Ranjan, and where do you think this leaves the AI industry? Where do you think it leaves meta? All right. I think this is a huge deal. I think this is kind of like masterclass, brutal Zuckerberg at his best.

46:11Because what's happening here in my read is choosing open source as their path forward. I want to get into the blog post Zuckerberg wrote about called Open Source is the Path Forward. But basically, Meta realized that trying to compete for consumer or enterprise dollars when you don't have a consumer subscription business, when you don't have an enterprise cloud business, would be a massive uphill battle for them against everyone already in the market. it. So instead, go open source, undercut everyone, make this thing free. And the fact that Llama 3.1 is outperforming GPT-4 in a lot of cases, it's as good as anything else out there.

46:59And it is free, is it's just a massive deal. And it's going to, especially at that enterprise level, I think pose a genuine threat. If people start thinking about things that I actually have an open source route to this, especially if it's more customizable, if I have more control over it, that really is a shot across the bow of like everyone, whether, I mean, for open AI, it's a huge problem, but even Google, Microsoft, Amazon, it's a problem as well. That's right. And I think that like, there's been some discussion of like Meta's open sourcing this model because it wants to sort of mess with Google or mess with Amazon and can do it for free, but it's also very expensive.

47:41And Zuckerberg in this post, and they've always been pro open source, but he talked about why it was so necessary for them and did it in like the most direct language possible, which I thought was like very interesting and worth sharing. So he says, one of my formative experiences has been building our services constrained by what Apple will let us build on their platforms. Between the way they tax developers, the arbitrary rules they apply, and all the product innovations they block from shipping, it's clear that Meta and many other companies would be freed up to build much better services for people if we could build the best versions of our products and competitors were not able to constrain what we could build.

48:23On a philosophical level, this is a major reason why I believe so strongly in building open ecosystems in AI and AR, VR for the next generation of computing. So basically he's saying, I don't want to be approved by any other platform. I don't want to be relying on any other platform to build. And I am going to just build the underlying technology and open source it. And everybody in the open source movement will help me improve it and gatekeepers be damned. And I think that this is pretty interesting. All right. This one got me pretty hard. And first thing I'm going to say is Zuck's public PR image has been pretty amazingly transformed from sitting in front of Congress pale and like nervous to wakeboarding and wearing like a T-shirt and a chain and looking cool and like hot Zuck memes going across the Internet.

49:17So that PR makeover has been successful. But I honestly think this kind of like developer PR makeover, no one's talking about it might be the bigger story. Because when I was reading this, I was like, okay, some of the things he has in headlines, why open source AI is good for developers. We need to protect our data. This is coming from Facebook. He says, we need to control our destiny and not get locked into a closed vendor. Anyone who is an advertiser understands that Meta is a closed ecosystem. And we want to invest in an ecosystem that's a standard for the long term. And the quote you used around our formative experiences were being constrained by Apple.

50:03anyone who was in tech in the late 2000s early 2010s if you remember farmville and the all the facebook apps and the thriving developer ecosystem that they built with the promise that you will all get to build and do you know zynga going public like facebook was the ecosystem and then they just shut it all off they just cut off everything decided that they didn't want it it was the most arbitrary i mean for them good but for their entire ecosystem bad so the idea that suddenly you have been pained by apple but you care so much about open ecosystems when you run meta i think is a bit rich but this is different though yeah sorry go ahead caveat and then i'll what i last thing but talking to a number of friends or developers they're like bought in they're like, oh my God, did you read this from Zuck?

50:59This is, it's beautiful. This is what I believe too. And so people, so it's working. And that's why, you know, we talk about credit to his like cool guy PR team, credit to whoever's writing these blog posts and who's coming up with this story because it's working. Well, here's what I think that it's different. And this is maybe a maturation because he really has been messed over by Apple. Apple shut down their internal app. People can book conference rooms for a while because of Apple's anger with them. And of course, Apple is a nemesis of Facebook. So I would just say that I think he's generally angry about this.

51:37And they've also given up the ecosystem play within Facebook. They've made a lot of changes to Facebook and Instagram over time. Now, there's still a walled garden. I won't argue that. But they're a different walled garden than they used to be. They're not really all about developers building experiences there because they realize that the platforms are not going to be the entire internet. They're specifically used for a certain thing. And when it comes to AI in particular, if you open source it, it's not going to be everybody living within the meta ecosystem. The idea is here's the underlying technology and you build on top.

52:09I get that argument. I get the idea that, again, they are a different ecosystem than they were before. To me still, you can't forget that that did happen. But I still think that the idea that like it's this, I don't know, the idea that AI is something significantly different, if at any point it is in Facebook's existential business interest to then close off the entire ecosystem and somehow change everything around and try to actually bring everything in house and try to, you know, screw over developers, I think they would in a heartbeat. And I think this is, I don't know, the idea that this is like a genuine vision versus I think it's a brilliant cutthroat business move to go after all your competitors in a way that I think could work, like could work really well.

53:05You take your money from Instagram and Facebook or their advertising is back. People are spending tons of money on it. uh you're still you have you what is it it's like 2.2 billion people use their products every day so i think you're in a pretty good position funnel reality labs lost 3.4 billion dollars last quarter you can afford that you can uh build some open source tools and then kneecap your competitors so i still think that's what it is and i think it was a good blog post i just don't buy Okay, so I can tell you I'm fairly certain that Zuck is freaked out by the consumer adoption of AI tools, or at least was in the beginning, which has led him to build these AI tools, but that's also tailed off.

53:51So I do think that maybe you're right. Maybe part of this is just like him seeing a competitive threat from Sam Altman, who he did needle in interviews talking about how he's building closed models as open source AI and open AI. And Elon Musk's like, yeah, Zuck, you tell him. and yeah go ahead no this is i enjoy watching this this is like business battle at its finest and this is where zuck is is in this in the cage match that we never got someone to be feared because uh i think like the way they've approached this entire thing is is brilliant and i agree i think yeah they probably they sat down they saw a threat and they had to decide how is this gonna to impact our core business?

54:38Is it going to affect messaging, social networking, photo posting? And I think they realized it wouldn't, that TikTok was the only real threat there. So then, okay, what do we do about it? It could at some point pose a threat. So let's mess with their business. Yeah. Okay. One more thing about this, and then we're going to talk about Southwest briefly. The China thing. I know for a fact that everyone is freaked out, not everyone, but a lot of people within the tech industry are freaked out at the fact that meta has open sourced llama and a lot of the chinese ai companies are building on top of it and learning from it and may eventually exceed it when you think about the amount of compute that's going to be available in that country if they want to pull their resources they can have some central planning that can get them into a really good place and this is what zuckerberg says about china our adversaries

56:01And I read that, I'm like, okay good argument but we'll see like i oh my god that that is a great argument i'm telling you whoever he has media training him on these answers i i don't i think this is actually zuck writing this stuff but go go ahead and nick click it never yeah nick like okay maybe it's nick like but he's more involved than i think that you're you're realizing he's very hands-on in that company and especially with messaging i think he's involved but i come on that is so good that if he has the time to write this, I'm worried about him not taking care of the rest of the business because what a brilliant answer.

56:38That's Clegg probably, I would imagine. It's Nick Clegg. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's about small businesses, universities. It's about the little guy and helping them. Yeah, I think they're doing well on the communications front right now. And if Lama, I'm going to try to experiment with it soon. If it gets interesting, it could completely change the economics of even how I'm using these things. Yeah. Oh, I got to give you this opportunity to talk about your cloud experience. Speaking of how I'm using these things, I got to say, so cloud, the other day I was doing a revenue scenario analysis in Excel and something that would have involved hours of building a model.

57:27I was like, you know what? And it's taking like a funnel in e-commerce. And I was like, let me just put this into Claude and say, Hey Claude, I'd like to build an app that allows me to take these numbers and do revenue scenario planning. So it'd be like, I want to change the headline revenue number. I want to change different steps in the funnel. And again, normally you'd have to build a complex, find it like model around this. And instead, Claude's like, let's build an app together in React. And so it starts giving me code and I start testing it within the Claude. They have this new window called Artifacts.

58:03And I'm in there testing it, saying, actually, I think this is a bug. You're not doing this right. We're improving the code. Then for me, the magical moment, and I will expose myself a bit, even covering tech and being very involved in tech. Like on the development side, I've always known basic HTML and CSS and can do some things and I'm somewhat comfortable. But anytime I get into the command line and I have to deploy any kind of code or like deal with GitHub repositories, I would just get stuck. And this has gone on for years. I would just be like, all right, I don't have the latest version of Python installed.

58:39I don't know how to do this. This is getting too complicated. I literally would just give up. it just walks you through step by step copy this copy this copy this and then even so i'm testing things something something breaks i upload the code base to claude claude finds oh you added an extra bracket on line 233 no let me update that for you here is your new code copy this into this file, upload it. And then I'm like, okay, the actual core of the app is working. Then I'm like, let's style this. Here's a color scheme. Can you add a button here that says this? Then it writes the CSS file. Like it's doing all of this.

59:22And then I deploy it and it's live. And I can even share a live internet link with other people. Like I've made an app from in 90 minutes, just playing around with this. And again, super basic, simple thing. But suddenly I'm, I personally, I'm like, I want to build apps. I want to test this stuff, things that I never would have wanted to do before. And I would always just be like, all right, I'm going to pass this off to someone more technical. And that to me, I'm going to say, I've been trying to document my wow moments. Right now, I think I have first time using ChatGPT, first time using MidJourney, first time using Suno for music.

1:00:02I'm going to put this up there as my fourth, the most magical generative AI moment where you're like, this changes everything. This really, to make people, to democratize the ability to actually not just code, but to actually build things is completely different, especially if you want to just experiment, build small experiences. And I think I heard the GitHub CEO saying, like he built an app that only tracks all of the flights he's ever taken. So something that no one would ever want to build. And for him, it was in the time to drink a glass of wine. For me, it was 90 minutes here. He is the CEO of GitHub.

1:00:43But I think it was crazy for me. It was fun. It was exciting. So why I hope Anthropic doesn't go out of business and Claude is here to stay. So how do you think this changes everything? You said it changes everything. Yeah. No, no. It's to me, so ChatGPT, what it changes is anyone who could not string together words, anyone who is a non-native English language speaker can now market in English, can now have business communications in English. Like it just completely transforms what skills are necessary at a basic level. And for the same thing with images, the way you can now create, you can run an entire e-commerce business.

1:01:26You can do anything around image generation now with code, especially, and not just code, because GitHub Copilot I tried to use, but it's so developer focused. Now you have someone walking you through how to build something. So if you want to, anyone, like I already was thinking about what stupid little things do I want to have an app for that I can actually run on my phone that I do? You know, like what weird little, you can make apps for your family. You can make experiences. You can make just like cool digital things. And then, so that's obviously just making cool little toys. But then people actually getting into launching businesses, it really was that next layer of, okay, this really makes it more accessible for anyone, anywhere.

1:02:11And again, that idea you had spoken of with the GitHub CEO of could you have a one person billion dollar business doing everything? it doesn't seem that far-fetched to me, given how these tools super give you like supercharge you doing things that you never would have been able to do otherwise. Amazing. Yeah. I'm sure we're going to hear more examples of this. All right. So finally, let's talk about the Southwest airline situation where they were hit, I think in this CrowdStrike thing, which has been like this sort of shock moment for so many airlines, like Delta said, they're going to do away with unaccompanied minors.

1:02:47being allowed to fly on their planes. And now Southwest is like, yeah, screw it. We're going to be a normal airline. And this is from the journal. Southwest Airlines is ditching open seating on flights. It will soon assign seats on flights and sell some with extra legroom, making sweeping changes in a bid to broaden its appeal to passengers and boost revenue. The push comes as it fends off an activist investor looking for an overhaul of its leadership and operating strategy. And of course, that investor is Elliott Management, which effectively pushed Jack Dorsey out of Twitter. And this is from the journal, Open Seating has been a hallmark of Southwest flight since the airline got its start more than 50 years ago as part of a business model that produced decades of uninterrupted profits and democratized flying in the process.

1:03:34But Southwest executives said the company needs to adapt to what today's customers want, making what might be its biggest ever shift. Just a quick rant for me. I saw someone say, listen, and people don't want to fly on a bus with wings. They want to fly on an airline. I'll just say my, you know, okay, I'll just say, knowing that Southwest Airlines is going to do away with open seating plans just lights up my heart and makes me so happy. I've flown the airline exactly once and was boarding towards the end. And it was the weirdest situation I've ever experienced on a plane where as you went on, you looked and the rows just filled with one person on each side, right?

1:04:16Aisle and window. And then the middle seats were just left open all throughout the flight. And basically the people coming in had to come in and just file in a middle seat, middle seat, middle seat. I think it gave you the illusion that you were in control, but you weren't. And I found it to be a miserable experience. So rest in peace, the open seating plan of Southwest Airlines. you are not loved in life and you will not be missed in death. I agree with you on that. I think open seating on flights was another Southwest gimmick that I think it's time to move on. And hopefully for anyone out there who has not enjoyed the service of airlines, especially Delta customers, hopefully things start to improve pretty soon.

1:05:00They won't. not if uh pete buttejage or transport secretary uh has something to say about it well yeah i maybe even still i'm flying in a couple weeks and i'm already you know nervous of the delays or what sort of cancellations might arise but such is the peril of flying in the summer all right ronjan welcome back to the u.s great speaking with you as always and we'll do it again next week see you next week. All right, everybody. Thanks so much for listening and we'll see you next time on Big Technology Podcast.