The Web’s ‘Existential’ AI Threat, OpenAI’s Microsoft Office Competitor, Tesla Robotaxi Launch

30:23It's just better like social help for people if they, if they're put out of work or whatever. Right. I mean, And I think that's the conclusion that people are going to come to, I'm guessing. Well, I think it's good that they are starting to study this. And I wonder, do you think so? You got the exclusive from Anthropic about this idea that they're, or this new program that they're going to roll out to study economic impact of the technology. Do you think this is an outgrowth of Dario's comment that 50 % of white collar entry level workers are going to be out of work because of AI? I think, yeah, for sure.

30:58Those comments really got a lot of attention. And I think he got a lot of blowback for that. I think this is actually a much better method. It's like, well, we'll just fund a bunch of people to do this research. But he'll probably still make these predictions. I mean, they do very well. I mean, I think he said actually in March, within a year, all of code will be written by AI. Or basically all of code. I mean, that's probably not going to come true. No, no way. I'm guessing. But we'll see. I mean, yeah, it's definitely because of that. I mean, this is like part of their brand. It's like we're just going to be, you know, we're building this technology, but we're going to be warning everyone about, you know, the effects of it and all the downsides.

31:47So I mentioned that Altman and Brian Lackhap were doing this interview this week and they were asked, do you believe in this stat that Dario gave about the entry level workers? uh sam altman says no i don't and brad light cap says no we have no evidence of this dario is a scientist and i hope he takes an evidence-based approach to these type of things i think what you're reporting i think here for uh you know which is brand new for our listeners and viewers is that yeah he's like i agree i'm going to take an evidence-based approach totally yeah i think more people yeah more people should i mean i think when you get into like some of these areas like you know the the the catastrophic risk you know or risk to humanity from ai i don't know how you take an evidence-based approach because it's like assuming that you know that this technology becomes super there's all these assumptions about the future that you can't prove um so that's i think with ai it's really you know it's there's a lot of faith that goes into into ai they don't think people realize, you know, definitely.

32:54Well, there's also these conversations about like takeoff, and is this starting to explode in a way that's effectively beyond our control. And last week, we talked about this gentle singularity paper from Sam Altman, and how he says the takeoff has begun. But another very interesting moment from that interview was they asked like, about this, this notion. And Brad Lightcap said this, this OpenAI COO, he says, will we wake up one day with this incredibly powerful thing and will the world be different that day? I think what we've all kind of agreed on is it probably won't. These things really have to be integrated into people's lives.

33:32They have to be felt and that change is more gradual. So I actually am kind of curious to hear your perspective on this because it is a little bit of a more, I think more realistic pullback on this notion that this takeoff and intelligence explosion is underway. And it was kind of interesting to hear Lightcap give the different, the opposite perspective of what the CEO shared a week before in a blog post. What do you make of this? Well, I don't think, like, again, I don't think anybody can actually know, right? I mean, if you do get to some, you do sort of end up, there's some threshold or breakthrough.

34:09I don't know, maybe it's possible, but like, nobody knows if that will or even could happen. So, I mean, I think Sam has always talked about this, like, is it a fast, is it a long runway and then a fast takeoff or a short, whatever. But I think he's always sort of said it's going to be, it's going to be this gradual thing. And that's how technology usually develops. Like it doesn't, doesn't usually just quickly take off. There's like adoption that has to happen. Everything. I think in this scenario, it's like, you're not, you're not even talking about technology anymore. You're talking about like some, some future thing that might be created.

34:46I mean, who knows? I tend to agree that it's not going to be this is not going to be some fast takeoff thing. But I don't really know. I think a lot of these people like the thing to remember about AI is like, you could, like, there's lots of people who predicted like all of this happening with AI, they've like predicted it up to this point. But like, they never had any actual evidence. They just saw basically like as compute increased, the availability of compute increased, the capabilities went up. But along the way, there are all these genius people who came up with like lots of breakthroughs that just like gradually improved the technology.

35:25But you couldn't have predicted those breakthroughs, right? So I think they're just looking at that graph and they're going, well, at some point, right? Like at some point it just keeps going. And then you get to this thing that's just, you know, that is super intelligence or AGI or whatever, whatever you want to call it. Yeah, they also asked him like whether his kids are going to be have more AI friends than human friends. And I think that if we continue on the curve, it's pretty obvious that people are going to have some serious AI companionship. And the interesting pushback there was first of all, he said more human friends, Altman said this.

36:02But Lightcap also made an effort to talk about this idea that like, yes, people have been led astray by their AI companions, but by and large, the impact has been quite good on net. And this is an interesting moment where we're starting to see OpenAI and other labs like Anthropic push back on this idea that AI companions and emotional support bots are bad for you. And this is an exclusive that Anthropic gave to Axios. And the news is quite interesting. So the headline is how Claude became an emotional support bot. The story says people who talk to Anthropic's Claude chatbot about emotional issues tend to grow more positive as the conversation unfolds.

36:47And Anthropic released new research that explores how users turn it to its chatbot for support and connection. The report says, we find that when people come to Claude for interpersonal advice, they're often navigating transitional moments, figuring out their next career move, working through personal growth, or untangling romantic relationships. And the report found evidence that users don't necessarily turn to chatbots deliberately looking for companionship or love, but the conversations kind of go that way. And on net, the company says that this stuff is positive. Curious what you think about the findings and the, this sort of, it feels like a coordinated PR moment between the two, although it certainly isn't to say, Hey, actually it's fine to be friends with your chat bot.

37:34Well, I, yeah, I think it's probably generally positive, but then of course there's all these stories. I think there was one in the New York times the other day about this is what they're responding to. Yeah. Yeah. Like horrible things have happened. And, you know, so you're always going to be able to find anecdotal, uh, you know, like stories where people like it all went really bad. But I think, yeah, I mean, in general, like, I mean, just talking is helpful, right? Like just talking to the mirror is probably helpful for a lot of people. So, you know, and human communication is like ultimately like not that complicated.

38:11Like you can, you know, you could read, there's like literally manuals about how to like, you know, sort of like make people feel good. and no I think it's totally positive it's it's probably gonna be totally positive I the other night I was like trying to write about some really complicated thing and I was like brainstorm I was like asking Gemini questions about it and it's like that's a brilliant question did you did you feel a flutter yeah I was like I was like this chat that's cool I like this job somebody understands dance. So, you know, it's like not that hard. And I'm like laughing at myself as I'm writing it, that I'm like, I'm like, Oh, my question was smart.

38:52And I think, you know, we're just not that complicated. I think humans are just not that complicated. Like you just talk to anything. We had something when, when we were kids, like on the Mac, there was like this chat bot that was basically like, you know, pretending to be AI. And she had a bunch of, a bunch, it was just keyword triggers basically right but like even that like people loved talking to it so not surprising to me i mean have you had a conversation with chat tpt's voice mode recently yeah i've talked yeah i use that i use that a lot really good really i was walking down the street and i was speaking to it on my airpods and i just like wow i'm having like a really good conversation no latency with this bot and i'm just doing this in public it's it felt weird but also i was like this is very cool technology also it is really cool actually it's great when you're driving and like the thing i think google just recently added this ability to do search with voice or something there's voice with search because the downside like the the chatbots for some reason are never connected to the web so you're just limited to the cutoff date and they're usually not the most powerful models but like i mean you're in new york so you don't drive as like i seem to be driving a lot and if i'm in the car a lot like i just told i want to like do i want to it's productive like i just want to i'm like going driving to interview somebody and i just want to like talk about that and brainstorm questions and stuff like that and i can you can do it but it's like very limited still but i think voice is totally and i'm not the first this is like a cliche now to say this but i think voice is totally going to be the the most you know powerful mode i think yeah i think it's the killer app for sure especially when you combine it with other scents like if you have it in on your glasses or airpods or something like that all right we got to take a break and then we have two more stories to cover which i teased in the opening oh my god we haven't even gotten to mir marati yet we're gonna blow through three very quick stories on the other side of this break.

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43:03And we're back here on Big Technology Podcast with Reid Albregatti. He's the technology editor at Semaphore. Let's go lightning through the rest of this week's stories. We kind of got caught up in the beginning of this conversation, which was great. Feel free to cut half of it out. I will not be. No, no. It stays. It stays. Oh, and before we get going on this, I meant to say this before the break. Thanks to everybody who rated the show over the past week. You heard the call. We appreciate you. And this is going to make the show better, get better guests. So I need to express my gratitude there.

43:34And so thank you very much. Okay, so let's talk about this quickly. OpenAI has built an rival to Google Workspace and Microsoft Office. This is according to Bloomberg. OpenAI has been gearing up to take on Google and Microsoft with features that let people collaborate on documents and communicate with chat via ChatGPT. Launching these features will put OpenAI more directly against Microsoft, its biggest shareholder and business partner, as well as open a new front in the battle with Google, whose search engine has already lost traffic to people using ChatGPT for web searches. I don't even know if the second part of that is true, but I think the real significance here is, well, I don't know if Google's absolute traffic has gone down, but certainly it must have lost some searches to ChatGPT.

44:20But I think the big thing here is that this could potentially be a new front in the OpenAI-Microsoft battle that just seems to be heating up every week. what's your take on this read well that battle has gotten really nasty but i actually think and it's like ultimately it's like about chips which is like so fascinating or that's what started the whole thing but i think actually i mean don't forget open ai has a bitter rivalry with google too and that seems to me to be more competitive with google docs than with with word don't you think or am i just misunderstanding the whole thing well i think you see the direction that where it is trying to go, which is going to be more AI enabled.

45:01But you're right. I think the collaborative side of things, like when you think collaborative doc, you think Google doc. Yeah, I think it's Google docs. I mean, I don't think like the thing about word and office and all this stuff is like, it's not like, that's not who they're competitive with. Cause it's, it's the companies buy these bundles of, of office products. And that's how people end up using that. Whereas Google docs is much more like the, you know, it's just like, I mean, they have obviously a lot of corporate accounts too, but it's like really just a purely consumer product, I think.

45:32And that's what, that's what like I, you know, if opening eye makes a better, you know, a better Google doc, because Google is, you know, maybe a little bit shy about like, you know, rolling out AI agent technology and its docs. Um, that could be kind of an interesting battle. I think. Look, as someone who's using, uh, these programs all the time, I'd like to see something new. But yeah, I think the competitive dynamics are interesting. You mentioned that the OpenAI and Microsoft Battle is really over chips. Can you just kind of elaborate on that before we move to our next topic? Well, the whole thing started because Microsoft wasn't able to build enough data centers fast enough with enough GPUs or didn't want to.

46:15And so OpenAI is like, well, we need to get out of this exclusive arrangement and we have to use... And then they built this... They did this Oracle Stargate thing. Right. And it's just been back and forth since then, I think. Is Stargate going to work? Well, that's interesting. That's an interesting question. I hadn't really thought, like, is it going to work? I mean, that question could have so many different meanings. Like, what do you mean? Can they actually build it? Once they build it, is the AI going to scale? Is it going to be one data center? Yeah. Let's go to the most basic level. Do you think this thing is actually going to get built?

46:56Well, I think some version of it will be built for sure. Actually, Bloomberg got like an exclusive tour of the site. They've broken ground. But I don't even know. Like, yeah, what are the chips going to be in there? I think it's – my guess is like, yeah, it will be built. But like is it going to be some huge thing that then they like train AGI on? And I think it's probably going to be like multiple sites that are connected. And a lot of it's going to be inference rather than training. Because ultimately, if you're open AI, their value is so much now, just the fact that they are the consumer interface for AI for so many people.

47:44Most of their revenue is coming from consumer. and that's like you know that ultimately the models are not even really going to be their core product right it's going to be all the stuff built around it the interfaces and the stickiness of the product so really inference becomes this huge cost for them and I think that's what they're sort of looking at it's like they have to you know of course they're still trying to build the best models etc but but you know they need to think about building their own data centers and reducing the cost as much as possible yeah well they're gonna have to find a way to also make those models much more efficient so let me ask you this before we move on i don't it's just like one of those topics that we start talking about we can never get out of but i think it's fine because it's interesting we made our predictions last week on what happens with the open ai microsoft partnership what do you think is going to happen what do you think is going to like with the partnership eventually I think eventually they drift apart.

48:46I mean, I think that's the way it's headed. Microsoft just gets a stake and says, have a nice day. Yeah. Well, I don't even know what that stake ends up being because right now it's like a revenue sharing agreement up to a certain amount of profit, and then they have nothing left. I mean, it could be something like that. It could be they end up owning shares of the company, but it just seems like there's... in a lot of ways, they've already kind of separated. Right. You know, in my mind. What was your prediction? I didn't hear your prediction. Well, in order to go to the for-profit conversion, OpenAI is going to have to get signed off from Microsoft to do that.

49:30And so I think that Microsoft will use that leverage very effectively and get an amazing deal out of OpenAI. Because without that, it's going to be hard for this company to sustain itself. Well, yeah. I think that's totally true. Although I don't know what's happening with this for profit. I mean, they have this lawsuit. They've sort of, they sort of said they're going to not do that now, but maybe, you know, still will do it. I mean, what that's, that's going to be super complicated. I don't know if they can even get there. Yeah, I know. I mean, we could, we could, it's just the amount of corporate drama within open AI.

50:07I mean, obviously because of the way they were formed, I don't think we'll ever go away. I think we'll always just be there with them. And there's no neat way to tie up the type of business that they have. And by the way, speaking of their drama, we have some news this week that their former chief technology officer is starting to speak to people about what she intends to do with her multi-billion dollar AI lab. Of course, I'm talking about Mira Murati, the former CTO of OpenAI. She's raised$2 billion at a$10 billion valuation, hasn't built a product. But what they're trying to do, this is according to Bloomberg, is use forms of reinforcement learning to reward AI models for accomplishing certain goals and penalties for other behaviors.

50:52and they're trying to reinforce key performance indicators, which typically relate to revenue or profit growth that typically employees within companies drive to. So they're going to reinforce the KPIs of human employees, except they won't be human employees. They're going to be bots. So they're going to take this like new reinforcement or relatively new reinforcement learning paradigm and then just apply that to business AI users. Do you think it's going to work? Well, that doesn't sound actually differentiated to me from like what other people are doing. I mean, I think that's... Come on, read it.

51:29It's RL for business. RL for business. That's what they're calling it. I mean, this is like total, this is like what so many, so many of these companies are doing now. I don't think, to me, that sort of makes me think, I'm like, so why don't you have a product at this point? I mean, it's, you could sort of, you could be building that, you know, you'd have already built stuff, right? in that vein. I think it's probably the hardest part of that is probably data. They're having to go gather a lot of data themselves, proprietary data. And then I think what Facebook did or what Meta did with basically sort of acquiring, non-acquiring scale AI, which is known for going out and gathering all this data, um not just labeling but like creating data and i'm like this is that's going to be a really tough slog for a startup i mean i think they've they've they've got their work cut out for them for sure unless they're consultants and maybe that's what they're going to be because they're going to be working in fields like customer service investment banking and retail according to the story so maybe they are just like tech enabled consultants where they come into your office and they build you some form of LLM, whether that is a salesperson or support or finance.

52:52You have all your data inside the company. They have some set of base foundational model that they build off of open source. And they replace maybe the McKinsey's of the world. It doesn't seem like it's going to be much more than a consulting company, though. Yeah, so then what's the valuation? 10 billion. No big deal. I don't know. I mean, I think that's a tough one. I mean, that's what a lot of these companies are kind of doing, like Palantir. Yeah, it feels like an AI for business Palantir to me. Right, right. It doesn't feel differentiated to me. It seems like that just seems like what so many people are trying to do.

53:30But again, I feel like commenting on this is like, I don't really have that much original reporting on this. So to me, it's kind of just, that's such a vague description of what they're doing. that it's like really hard to tell. Like it could just, I think it could be, it could be something totally different. I want to know what the, what the, she's the CTO, but what's Ilya doing? His. Oh, so Dwarcus was here. Yeah. So Dwarcus was here a couple of weeks ago and he said that basically what Ilya is trying to do is a test time learning, basically models that learn and the inference point. So they can be continuously improving.

54:09I think that's a pretty good guess. And if he's able to pull it off, it definitely will push the field forward in a big way but it's a big if that is yeah that is super interesting i also wonder again like back to like sort of opening i being the consumer they're now sort of this consumer um they're the kleenex of chatbots if you will i mean like the mod like how much money is there in building these models like they're so i mean they're so easily copied, it seems like, that, you know, if you're just doing AI research and you make like a breakthrough like that, that's really about like technique and, you know, how long can you hold on to that IP before, you know, Anthropic has it or Google, you know, Google's probably are, Google probably has a project where they're just doing that, right?

54:59Somewhere in the company. So that's going to be a tough slog too. I think a lot of these companies are just, it's, it's, they got their work cut out for them. Definitely. But Reid, imagine that he does get there first and kind of hold that over the industry for a while and then all of a sudden Ilya becomes the most powerful person in AI. Could be a very interesting plot twist. How does he hold it over the industry? Because they don't have it. But who serves it? Is it an API that you buy from them? Is it sold through the hyperscalers, through the clouds? That's a good point. Well, it's going to be super intelligence.

55:36So it seems like all the questions about business go away once you build a super intelligence. Yeah. I think, again, when this stuff launches, right, then you see, okay, like what is the product? Like how, you know, do people like using it? Is it, you know, I just think it's so, I mean, you have the most brilliant people in the world. But like who would have thought, like nobody could have predicted OpenAI would be the consumer, you know. I know. No, it's totally that everybody. Surprising. Yeah. And it happened like almost by accident. I just think, and then I think Sam very brilliantly jumped on it, saw what they had created and, you know, and it's like, okay, this is what we're doing.

56:19But, you know, it almost happened by accident. And I think, I don't know, these, they're going to have to do something like that, but it's like, they better hurry because this market is becoming like really crowded and, and competitive and the lanes are being defined. defined like if they aren't already well the lanes are being defined in the self-driving car industry i sorry i couldn't help but jump on that we must get to south tesla self-driving it started uh there they are in the lanes they're going in wrong lanes they're going in the right lanes uh this is this is all true by the way i'm not lying here uh tesla's robo taxi service in austin is live there are 10 vehicles and a human safety driver on board though the safety driver sits in the passenger seat.

57:02I couldn't tell if there was a break in the videos that I had watched. But these things are on the road. They cost a flat$4.20 fee, aka they are definitely Elon Musk's robo-taxis. Very quickly, there's been some safety concerns. I watched one video, and this is highlighted again by Bloomberg, which seems to be the star publication outside of Semaphore on the show. They're doing a lot of good reporting. You guys are doing great reporting. They do. A lot of good stuff to read. But there's a video that they link by this investor, Rob Maurer. I think his handle is like Tesla podcast or something. And you see the car like wanting to go make a turn, but it decides against it.

57:42So it like drives in like a lane of incoming traffic and then zigs its way over a yellow line. Like obviously it's not like it ain't perfect. Let's put it that way. There's some other complaints that the Tesla is speeding. This is kind of like whole monitor stuff. They're like, it's doing 39 and it was a 35 mile an hour speed limit. These things are out of control. That's not as big of a deal to me. No, people would be complaining more if it was doing 35 and they were stuck. Look at these granny Tesla cars. Though I did see the video of the of the going in across the lane into oncoming traffic.

58:17And yeah, I mean, it was definitely it was definitely a mistake. It was definitely a screw up, but nothing that you wouldn't see. I think from, I mean, even these Waymos sometimes will do screwy things and, but ultimately like, you know, they didn't hit any pedestrians. They didn't get in any accidents. I think, you know, in the end, I think it was a pretty successful launch. What do you think? Yeah. This is the thing with all tech. If it works 95 % of the way, that's not good enough. If it works 99.5 % of the way, that's not good enough in self-driving cars. So things have been fine so far, but it definitely has, we need to see a lot more to decide whether or not this was, this is going to really work for them.

58:58If it works, obviously it's a major, major boon for the company. And certainly from the videos, it looked a lot like the Waymo experience. You get in the car's driving itself. They have some predetermined routes. There are tele operators. So there are some shortcuts being taken so far. And there is, there are people that are part of this, you know, people-less driving experience. But I think, yeah, it's important. They are off to the races. They're going to get moving. They're going to get data. And I don't know. My fingers are across that they pull it off and pull it off safely. But I think it's too early to tell.

59:33Yeah. I mean, of course, you know, whatever you think of Elon, like you should definitely hope that these companies pull this off because they are absolutely safer than human drivers. But you're totally right. Like it has to get to basically 100 % or like nine nines or whatever. Because if it doesn't, I mean, we saw what happened with Cruise, right? Like you screw up and Uber with their thing. I mean, you screw up once and like that could just end the whole thing. I think if you're Waymo, you almost have to worry about Tesla. Because it's like, well, if Tesla screws up, I mean, the Cruise thing sort of blew over.

1:00:10Maybe they'll be fine. but like it definitely makes people think more about the safety. It's really ironic, this technology, that like the proponents of it argue that it's great for safety and the opponents of it are also arguing about safety. So it's like both sides want these things either on the roads or off the roads for the same reason. And, but the studies are like, I mean, millions of miles with a hundred percent increase in in safety in terms of like bodily harm oh yeah so it's like i mean the waymos in san francisco are you know they're just taking over yeah yeah and it's just a smooth safe ride it's unbelievable totally it's much it's it's nice to not i mean i don't know this sounds bad but like you know you have privacy right like there's no driver there i've had plenty of great nice conversations with uber drivers and lyft drivers but it's like it's nice to just sit there you know with maybe your kid with your kids and you're having a conversation or something and it's you know it's a good experience too but mainly it's just improving safety tesla is taking a much more difficult road because they're doing it only with cameras you know that i think that to me makes it and there and it's like general they're really ultimately trying to get to like level five autonomy whereas waymo is like we're just gonna to build like this, this like geo-fenced area where it's like meticulously mapped and we know everything that's going to happen.

1:01:41So I think, I think Tesla's ultimately like a more ambitious plan in the long run, but it also might be, you know, it might be a longer, a longer time until they get there. Do you think Waymo is still meticulously mapped, you know, the same way that they did in all the test environments because they've been expanding rapidly? well yeah i mean i think i think they're still using mapping i mean i could be wrong they're moving more and more toward these like general purpose like transformer based models i think but yeah i think they're still doing the way they scale to these places is i think they do you know i think they've probably automated a lot of the process but i still think it's kind of like a car on on a track on the digital track and it's yeah you know and that's how you that's how you get to 100 % safety.

1:02:27I mean, nothing is left to chance. And even then you see them screw up sometimes. Yeah. Well, you know, Google was able to map so many of the roads in the world that maybe they'll just be able to do that and bring autonomy that way. I mean, the one nice thing about the physical world is it's finite. So get all the roads, figure it out. And then maybe you can make this thing really work got a high degree of safety all over the world. I think, yeah, I mean, for sure. I mean, a million people a year die in auto accidents. It's crazy and so unnecessary. Yeah, it's crazy. It's almost, it almost makes you wonder.

1:03:06It's like focusing on like the little error on day one when they're testing this stuff or like 39 to 35 is like, is that really, I don't know. Should you really be focusing so much on that? Like, I think there's a lot of anti-Elon stuff that sort of, I think, seeps into the coverage of this stuff, unfortunately. It's just hard to do as a reporter. Like, you know, it's hard to take the emotion out of the reporting. But I think it does kind of seep in, don't you think? Oh, definitely. And we also know that Elon is running a much trickier program. So then the mistakes will be magnified. But, yeah, probably there's some of that as well.

1:03:46All right. Let's end this week running through, as I promised. If you're still with us, the reward is here. The Bezos wedding guests. Attending Jeff Bezos' wedding to Lauren Sanchez in Venice, Italy will be Kim Kardashian, Madonna, Mick Jagger, Leonardo DiCaprio, Orlando Bloom, Microsoft founder Bill Gates, Diane Van Furstenberg, and Barry Diller. And then, of course, TBD on Katy Perry. big protests in Venice. So apparently the arrivals have been moved from like a more public area to a more secure area. But the city of Venice has defended the nuptials, probably not because they got any money from the Bezos to do this, but they've defended the nuptials as keeping with Venice's traditions as an open city that has welcomed popes, emperors, and ordinary visitors alike for centuries.

1:04:38Jeff Bezos, Lord Sanchez, he would be, I think, maybe between Pope and Emperor. I don't know. Where do you put him? Maybe more on the Emperor side. Yeah, definitely more Emperor than Pope, for sure. Well, look, here on Big Technology Podcast, we celebrate love. So Jeff and Lauren, I'm sure you're listening on your special weekend. And from us to you, we say congratulations. Congrats. How many weddings have you covered on this show? Just out of curiosity. This is probably the first, but I'm very, very happy to be doing it. And no, no, no, sorry. This is the second. And the first batch were people getting married to their AI bots.

1:05:18So. Oh, right. Finally, a human wedding here on Big Technology Podcast. The future has arrived. Popes, emperors, AI bots. We've been with you every way on the word. Exactly. The whole deal. Reed, before we jump, please shout out where people can find your work and how to get the Semaphore technology newsletter. Go to semaphore.com, check out the technology newsletter. It's free. Um, promise you'll like it comes out twice, twice, twice a week. And, um, yeah, find me on X and that pretty much just that I'm not a huge social media guy. Okay. All right. Reed, great to see you as always. And, uh, thank you again.

1:05:59Thank you everybody, uh, for listening. And I will be back on Wednesday with an interview with Noah Smith, aka no opinion he is a sub stack uh economics writer we're going to talk about whether ai is really taking our job so we're going to get ahead of that anthropic report and we hope to see you then thanks for listening and we'll see you next time on big technology podcast