Why OpenAI Killed Sora, Did Apple Just Save Siri?, Meta’s Big Loss

19:31Ranjan Roy:given now you're you're the one saying that kind of like coming up with these broad agentic use cases and visions and again remember like i think this is the exciting part why everyone's so fired up is like once you feel that power just imagining all the possibilities and i think you put it well like always on connected to your data and able to take action that those are kind of the three foundations of this whole thing and again i i we don't know what no one has named it yet i've been like racking my brain it's like autonomous knowledge work open claw i don't know if it's gonna stick maybe that could be the open club but like that is the work harness hive harness hive is the let's take over i think uh but but i do think yeah it's i i fully agree it's not consumer versus enterprise every person i think will have a lot of things that they will be able to build and do with it so i agree it's the central part of the battle i just mean more like and we're gonna get into the shutdown of the erotic chatbot but like even the advertising business i was just at ShopTalk in Las Vegas all week, OpenAI, ton of talk around commerce.

20:47Ranjan Roy:Again, it becomes like one of those interesting things that it's consumer, it's also enterprise, because you have the retailers, but you also have the end consumer who will be shopping on it potentially. So I think I agree there, but I just think that overall, as an organization to start cutting these very consumer-friendly things. Are you going to be able to focus on and advertise a large advertising business when you're trying to do everything else? That's where I think there's issues.

21:17Big Technology Podcast Host:I think you will be. I mean, ChachiBT is already at$100 million annualized run rate.

21:22Ranjan Roy:Oh, that one killed me. It's been out for six weeks. Can I make one? Can no one ever say annualized recurring revenue when a product has been out for six weeks. Like it's just not ARR at that point. Let it, don't make us, don't do the extrapolation. Just say it's been out for six weeks and we've made, what would that be like nine,$10 million or whatever it is like that just, that's all it is right now. And it could be much bigger and I'll be, that'll be great for them, But reporters, please don't use ARR unless there's some kind of meaningful trend.

22:03Big Technology Podcast Host:I think I'll keep doing it on this show just to annoy you, Ranjan, but I message her loud and clear. Let me end this segment with one thing, which is this all sounds good in theory. But the problem that I have and the problem that many people have is a trust problem where I want the AI to do all these cool things for me. but I do not trust it to have access to my Gmail and calendar and desktop and all these things. And obviously, like some of the leading models, like are the leading providers, even OpenCloth likes like, we don't recommend you do this without, you know, some precautions, like running on a separate machine.

22:45Big Technology Podcast Host:Do you think that that trust barrier is ever going to be overcome?

22:49Ranjan Roy:Yeah, 100%. I mean, I see it myself. Well, actually, hold on to add nuance to it. Like I have something that just 7 p.m. every day, here's all the emails that you have not answered that are like from today and then greater than 24 hours old. And here is a suggested response based on your entire Gmail history. So I get this. I don't have it send it the email yet. Like so that so I've not gotten to where I'm actually like press button, send the email to everyone. But as you start seeing it start actually kind of like tweaking how you want the response is structured, I do think there is a world where I would just have it send the response.

23:32Ranjan Roy:So I think that the trust comes with time and quality. And the more you start to see, and the more you also start to understand what questions not to ask or where data is going to be bad and you're going to get a subpar answer, that is going to be one of the most, I think, important skills. But also, that's how people will build trust.

23:55Big Technology Podcast Host:This is why I always get emails from you at about 710, 712, right?

23:59Ranjan Roy:the claws like that's wonderful let's make sure to schedule at this time

24:07Big Technology Podcast Host:um well we're about to find out really where this is going to go because we have two major models coming from both uh one each one from open ai and one from anthropic let's start with anthropic there's a very interesting story in fortune this week anthropic acknowledged test acknowledges testing a new ai model representing step change in capabilities after accidental data it reveals, data leak reveals its existence. Anthropic is developing and has begun testing with early access customers a new AI model more capable than it has released previously, the company said following a data leak that revealed the model's existence.

24:41Big Technology Podcast Host:Anthropic's spokesperson said the model represented a step change in AI performance and was the most capable we've built to date. The company said the model is currently being trialed by early access customers. A draft blog post that was available in an unsecured and publicly searchable database prior to Thursday evening, said the model is called Claude Mythos. The company believes it poses unprecedented cybersecurity risks. Mythos has also been called Capybara. In the document, Anthropics says Capybara is a new name for a new tier of model, larger and more intelligence than our Opus models, which were until now our most powerful.

25:20Big Technology Podcast Host:Compared to our previous best model, capybara gets dramatically higher scores on tests of software coding academic reasoning and cyber security among others wow uh so we could be seeing a new class of model you know anthropic of course has its three uh sonnet opus and what's the other one um haiku oh yeah yeah

25:45Ranjan Roy:So now we might be getting cheap. Yeah.

25:48Big Technology Podcast Host:We might be getting Capybara. What do you, what's your, your quick take reaction to this? I mean,

25:54Ranjan Roy:I am a step change in models. Now that when we've been talking about this solo episode, that now we all kind of know what the battle is, I think will be very, very interesting to see. Like again, but it's still hard to understand when you both worry about, say that you're worried about cybersecurity or recognizing these risks, but then say it gets dramatically higher scores on tests of software coding, academic reasoning, and cybersecurity, it's still just, I don't know, kind of difficult to actually parse out where they're going with this. What do you think, what's your prediction on what it will feel like the first time you crank out some work on Capybara?

26:39Big Technology Podcast Host:Well, I have been thinking about this because, Because, you know, we've been like sitting here and we review like every update that seems incremental, right? Like, oh, it got a little bit better at this, got a little bit better on this, got a little bit better on this. And it's starting to feel like it compounds. You know what I'm saying? Like we started with ChatGPT in 2022 and it had all these sorts of flaws. And over time, they've been patched up in a way. And so like I just started to think about it this week in terms of like all the AI CEOs say that there is this like exponential happening.

27:14Big Technology Podcast Host:And maybe that's just the way that you get that exponential, right? Like, you know, with interest, for instance, like, all right, there's like 6 % on your investment and then another 6 % on your investment and that 6 % that you got last quarter. And then all of a sudden that starts to really grow. And it seems like that might be what's happening with these AI models.

27:33Ranjan Roy:maybe i'm being overly optimistic no no no but but that's not even optimistic that's realistic that's like right like compounding accrual of value coming is actually the way this is playing out but the marketing was done before that like gpt3 gpt4 so like that everything had to be revolutionary in a step change and then people were disappointed when it wasn't um so i do think that could be the right way to look at it. And people don't, and maybe it is just a marketing limitation that they have to make a big deal, but it would be kind of nice if everyone actually just spoke about it like that. Like here's our release notes.

28:15Ranjan Roy:It's definitely a little better. And then you can do a lot more and that's all we should really focus on.

28:22Big Technology Podcast Host:They will never, ever speak that way.

28:25Ranjan Roy:No, no, no, of course not. Guaranteed.

28:28Big Technology Podcast Host:here's another one open ai new model it's calling coming out called spud open ai ceo sam altman said the company has completed the initial development of its next major ai model codename spud he told staff that the company expects to have a very strong model in a few weeks that the team believes can really accelerate the economy he added things are moving faster than many of us expected um you know what's interesting it's like just as the and now i'm I'm going to really sound optimistic and I'm trying to check myself, but like just as the world implements today's models and is starting to find that they can do things with them that they really couldn't do with the previous generations.

29:08Big Technology Podcast Host:And that's leading to this like explosion of possibilities. It's like, wait, and they're building better models than these. Some that they say are sizable leaps. Like it is one of those moments where you like sit back and just go. This is crazy.

29:26Ranjan Roy:I mean, it definitely feels like that. But sorry, I just have to stop for a moment and say the name Spud did not jump out to you as what the hell is going on. Anthropics sitting on Mythos and Capybara. I don't know. That's kind of like, but Spud is the code name for their model. Where is this coming from?

29:56Big Technology Podcast Host:Not exactly inspiring.

29:58Ranjan Roy:No, no. He's literally, the team believes can really accelerate the economy. He's not even saying like you'll be able to do a little bit more multi-step reasoning. He's being, again, as we were just talking about, everything has to be grandiose and can really accelerate the economy. And it's called spud. I don't know. Can you imagine you're at your job and your manager walks over and they're like, got to tell you, we're replacing you with spud.

30:27Big Technology Podcast Host:that would that would hurt my feelings but it might happen maybe do you think this is it's so

30:33Ranjan Roy:bad that it actually makes me i will never forget the name versus mythos and stuff maybe it'll just kind of fall into haiku i couldn't remember off the top of my head but spud you'll remember don't even call it gpt6 just come out with our new class of models the spud family of models and spud spud but look let's let's uh let's be clear here it's just a code name it's not like open ai is going to release spud the product name spud and then i code name but again most tech project like code names that i've ever come across or been part of all everyone has a somewhat ambitious name or like it's kind of like strong grandiose big name So that's why this one really jumped out at me.

31:20Ranjan Roy:But I kind of like it now.

31:22Big Technology Podcast Host:The same people who are branding the Pentagon operations have come and started to codename the open AI products.

31:29Ranjan Roy:No, the Epic Fury would be more in line with Mythos. Spud, I don't know about that. I don't know.

31:36Big Technology Podcast Host:Well, we'll find out soon enough. All right, folks, if you are enjoying seeing Ranjan riled up, well, just wait till the second half where we talk about Siri. We'll be back with hopefully some better news about Siri's direction, but I can't promise anything. We're back right after this. I've interviewed a lot of great tech founders on this show, and one surprisingly universal challenge comes up again and again. Finding the right domain name. It's something I ran into myself when launching big technology. The names you want are often taken, and it's tempting just to settle and move on. But the founders I respect most don't settle on fundamentals, and your name is one of them.

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33:28Big Technology Podcast Host:Get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you. easily create email and social campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. It's time to turn those what-ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your$1 per month trial today at shopify.com slash big tech. Go to shopify.com slash big tech. That's shopify.com slash big tech. And we're back here on Big Technology Podcast Friday edition. Siri is on its way to a new improvement. This is from Bloomberg. Apple plans to open up Siri to rival AI assistants in iOS 27 update. The company is preparing to make the change as part of a Siri overhaul in its upcoming iOS 27 operating system update.

34:14Big Technology Podcast Host:The assistant can already tap into ChatGPT through a partnership with OpenAI, but Apple will now allow competing services to do the same. The company is developing new tools to allow AI chatbots installed via the App Store to integrate with the Siri assistants. The chatbots will also work with an upcoming Siri app and other features in the Apple intelligence platform. I'll just quickly share my perspective here and then let you riff off it, Ranjan. People were, and I initially took this as maybe Siri is saved. But then I realized that it's just going to be the same disappointing user experience that you use to find ChatGPT in Siri.

34:55Big Technology Podcast Host:So in other words, same Siri, new stuff you can access with it, not a Siri that is actually, you know, a distilled version of Claude or something like that. And that just makes me even further disappointed in what we're going to get on the iPhone in terms of AI assistant.

35:14Ranjan Roy:I will refrain and try to remain from, I will try to remain calm, but this was, this made Spud look like pure poetry of a name because when I'm reading this announcement, I agree. There's been a lot of like very promising things about Ciri that have made me question my hatred for it and think there is a possible future again. And like this got even more confusing because Gemini being the kind of base foundation on Siri and actually making it valuable is kind of exciting. This not only like when's the last time you actually use the chat GPT integration in Siri?

35:54Big Technology Podcast Host:I don't use it. I mean, why would I do anything but go to the chat GPT app?

35:59Ranjan Roy:Yeah. Yeah. But then the actual technology here, like Siri actually having connected apps or kind of, I think they called them maybe skill. There was something for many years, like trying to actually integrate specific functionality within apps has existed within Siri. so like just having that as the query i guess it'll be a little less friction if it means that siri will then be able to directly read out the answer to you or have it appear rather than opening up the target app but like i don't know this is yeah i agree this is horrifying like if this is still where their heads siri has to be able to be good enough to compete with those apps like that it just has to it should not trigger some other thing and i thought that's what they're working on so the fact that this is going to be some kind of thing and actually the last line this approach should allow apple to generate more money from third-party ai subscriptions through the app store that was the most depressing part that if this is just like well buy your gemini through the app store and then we're going to take a cut this is uh this is troubling i don't know we'll we'll see i'm still i'm gonna give them give them a chance here but not positive two months till

37:16Big Technology Podcast Host:wwdc so let's see but let's see not very enthusiastic right now about what's going on

37:23Ranjan Roy:although you go ahead i was gonna ask do you think wwdc they're gonna have like a well fleshed out vision of what apple intelligence is what series no i wouldn't be surprised if we didn't hear

37:38Big Technology Podcast Host:anything about Apple intelligence this year as well.

37:41Ranjan Roy:Well, but even the Siri overhaul and stuff, right? Like, you think they're... Nothing.

37:46Big Technology Podcast Host:No. Maybe a few minutes. They have to release products. They have to let the products do the talking. They cannot tell us again about what's coming. That seems to be my perspective, at least. Yeah.

37:59Ranjan Roy:Okay.

38:00Big Technology Podcast Host:Agreed. Let's go to our other friends over here in Silicon Valley Meta and YouTube. This is a pretty big deal, actually. A case, a court in California found them both liable for harming a young user with their futures. This is from the New York Times. Meta and YouTube found negligent in landmark social media case. It says, The landmark decision could open up social media companies to more lawsuits over users' well-being. Meta must pay$4.2 million in combined compensatory and punitive damages. and YouTube must pay$1.8 million. The bellwether case, which was brought by a now 20-year-old woman who had accused social media companies of creating products as addictive as cigarettes or digital casinos, and they led to anxiety and depression.

38:54Big Technology Podcast Host:And the court found in this person's case. And there are thousands more of these lawsuits coming through. Now, I was on CNBC just as this happened. And I was like, you don't want to lose these cases, because you're going to have others. And the other panelists that was with me was like, basically, you know, this is a win for them, because the amount was so small, it was only, I think, just a few million dollars, six million total. But when you lose, you open the door for other losses. And some might see the award and say, if they got that, we can get even more. And lo and behold, Metastock has just tanked over the rest of the week.

39:33Big Technology Podcast Host:So how do you read this, Ranjan, in terms of the potential for successive liability for Meta after this problem? After this loss?

39:43Ranjan Roy:But hold on, I'm trying to, because I had also seen that they're ordered to pay 375 million in civil penalties.

39:50Big Technology Podcast Host:Yes. So that's a separate case. They also lost this week in New Mexico, which for some reason wasn't talked about as much. And I have a theory as to why it wasn't talked about as much.

39:59Ranjan Roy:walk me through because and just to note like uh andy stone the head of comms over at met i'd seen a tweet where like basically he was like it's not that much it's a fraction of what the state sought even for the 375 million which was just terrifying to me but the part of the point is that like if

40:19Big Technology Podcast Host:you lose you open yourself to self up to further losses so that's that's to me so i guess i can sort of give my perspective here. The issue here is that the ruling is basically telling them that you can't use Section 230 as a shield anymore. It's not necessarily that you're being sued over the content on your platforms. You're being sued directly over the way that you design them. And courts are finding that, yeah, that you can't hide behind Section 230, which protects like forum owners from the content that people put on top of them. And now we could potentially see thousands of similar cases.

40:59Big Technology Podcast Host:That is a problem.

41:02Ranjan Roy:Yeah, I think, I mean, and honestly, this is something since 2015, 16, I've been hoping would be recognized. So it is, I mean, 10 years late, but still I'm very positive about it. But I think like, especially, yeah, it not only being liable, opening the door the fact that the the smaller case still found that and it said like the reporting the finding validates a novel legal theory that social media sites or apps can cause personal injury i mean that's a huge deal like it's it's that the actual being liable not like for the actual injury side of it i think gets really interesting um where how do you see this playing out.

41:50Ranjan Roy:For at least a decade, every one of these has come and gone and meta keeps meta-ing. And Instagram, every single person I know just all day long scrolls on it. They're still doing what they've always done and have been doing a very good job at it. So how do you see this? Do you see this actually affecting their business?

42:13Big Technology Podcast Host:I saw a great interview with a law school professor this week where the law school professor and his name escapes me, so apologies, was basically like, Meadows has to appeal this and they will appeal this because this is effectively setting precedent in the country for whether Section 230 can work to protect you or not. And the court just found no. So the way that this professor sees it going is that it goes all the way to the Supreme Court and then the Supreme Court rules, you know, specifically on the boundaries around Section 230. And if the Supreme Court, and I'm just saying, let's say it goes out the way that this guy thinks, if the Supreme Court rules that Section 230 is not protective, it's not just the thousands in action now.

42:58Big Technology Podcast Host:It could be even more that come in. And I mean, I guess that's somewhat concerning in terms of like, all right, if you're a content business, are you now liable? We have the Discord and luckily everybody's pretty well behaved and happily contributing there. But am I now liable for everything said, you know, in our Discord instance, it just opens up, you know, this Pandora's box that could, you know, cause damage to the internet and especially to Meta's business. And on the Meta's business, I just one more thought here. They are spending a lot of money this year,$115 to$135 billion on AI infrastructure.

43:35Big Technology Podcast Host:And the reason why the market has quote unquote allowed them to do that is because they're making all this money. If you start seeing your margin trimmed by a like sort of death by a thousand needle pokes from these lawsuits, then all of a sudden your ability to spend on innovation goes down because your margin comes down and the market doesn't give you the leeway that it might have otherwise. So that's a potential problem there.

43:59Ranjan Roy:Okay. So a couple of other thoughts. See, I guess it's just been so long where they have not been affected that it's just still, it's almost unbelievable for me to think that they will or could be. I mean, that's just, it's been years and years of, when was Mark Zuckerberg in front of Congress way back? That was like 20...

44:20Big Technology Podcast Host:2018, 2017.

44:22Ranjan Roy:2017, 18. Yeah. Like remember good memes back in the day, but like, I think... I was there. Oh, you're okay. So yeah, it was so long ago, but I think a couple of things that jumped at one, The cigarette analogy is interesting to me because like I saw like some interesting, you know, like, is that really the right analogy? I think there was an op-ed in the New York Times on this. Basically, the idea is like there is good and there's bad. So it's not like cigarettes, which I mean, maybe you can argue there's good. But like in general, I think most people are not even pretending there's any true good out of it versus like social media can be a net societal positive.

45:03Ranjan Roy:it can also be very negative to me though and i've written about this a lot like the algorithm is the cigarette or the tobacco like it's not the content it's not even like the core technology of posting a photo it's just algorithmic based content and i think if this finally gets people back to talking about that as a danger i'm very very happy about it i think it's good but But yeah, just like fixing Siri, I'll believe there is a material impact in Meta's business when I see it.

45:39Big Technology Podcast Host:I know we haven't been in the courtroom, but let's just – I'm curious if you agree with the verdict here. Because the meta argument is teen mental health is complicated. It doesn't come down to one app. You cannot blame everything on a single app. I mean, obviously, in some cases, they're contributing to teen mental health issues. But then again, there is some merit, I think, in saying that there's a combination of factors and not just one culprit. What do you think?

46:12Ranjan Roy:So I will say, and again, this has been a long, long rant, I think. It was like 2019, we'd written the margins, five ways to fix social media. One of them I still loved, which we'll never get, but it's that the timeline should be reverse chronological by default. So there's no algorithm suggesting the content. Because to me, there is one culprit. It's the algorithmic recommendation of content. That's it. Like, whether it's on YouTube, whether it's on Facebook, whether it's on Instagram, TikTok, that's the entire platform. That's what radicalizes people, makes them feel bad. So I do think there's one culprit here.

46:51Ranjan Roy:I think it is interesting.

46:53Big Technology Podcast Host:Wait, hold on. You're saying that this person's mental health issues, you would say, are entirely due to the algorithm.

47:02Ranjan Roy:I mean, that's like saying, is smoking responsible for lung cancer? Or could obesity or environmental factors and air quality? Come on. We all use social media. We all like everyone like it's just I don't know. I guess I do love like a lot of the times I have friends who are like, I'm not influenced by social media. I'm not influenced by the ads. The posts don't actually make me feel like I'm missing out on something or I need to improve my vacation. But to me, I don't know. Is that not the most centrally clear thing to you?

47:42Big Technology Podcast Host:Well, I guess this is sort of I see your point. It's like the counter argument to Metta's argument is it's not that smoking cigarettes lead directly to cancer. It's that smoking cigarettes are a known carcinogen. So your odds of getting cancer and then therefore in many ways the cigarette companies are liable for sort of the additional cancer cases that they cause even though you can't draw a straight line one to one. And maybe there's a similarity with like, are more kids depressed today because of social media? If you can prove that and it's tough, then I'm just, again, talking through these arguments.

48:24Big Technology Podcast Host:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

48:24Ranjan Roy:No, I think it's a good – like causality is very difficult to prove, which actually now that we're talking, I do think makes this really a big deal. Now, because causality, it is, especially in this case with mental health, feels nearly impossible to prove. I don't know. Maybe you could, based on their usage statistics, somehow start to draw more of a direct correlation of that specific user, especially if you're looking at individuals. but I mean anyone who has clicked on the YouTube right rail of like recommended recommended videos it's anything like it just exacerbates exaggerates like radicalizes in many cases I mean it's just designed to make you feel and the easiest way to make people feel and stay engaged is to make them not feel great maybe

49:24Big Technology Podcast Host:but they keep coming but you let's say people keep coming back I don't know I want to I call it doom scrolling and I want to doom scroll that's my choice

49:37Ranjan Roy:that's what a good addictive if you want a sports scam bet on sports if you want to vape if you want to smoke cigarettes to whatever your advice of choice might be. It's similar to me. Do you want to know one of my hot takes? Yes. So Twitter changed from reverse chronological by default in the spring of 2015 and to everyone's default feed was algorithmic. Right. And what happened through 2015 into 2016? Or hold on, let me get the exact same.

50:19Big Technology Podcast Host:Yeah, that that is responsible for the political climate globally right now? Yes. Okay. First of all, a couple of things. Number one, what you described, somebody smoking and vaping and sports gambling and spinning through reels. uh that's basically my weekend where i've got the vape and this

50:51Big Technology Podcast Host:no look i one thing i'll say about the whole algorithmic thing is that was that's always going to be weird for me personally because i was reporter at buzzfeed at the time and i got the scoop that twitter was moving to an algorithm that was on like a friday

51:08Ranjan Roy:Hold on. February 2016. So it's even more in line with my theory here. February 10th, 2016. Well, I mean, look, if you could say that Trump, I mean, out of all the candidates, he played social media well.

51:25Big Technology Podcast Host:But I think the thing that really put him in office were those debates where he just, I mean, Shane Gillis has like a pretty good bit on this. Just that like, you know, he's like, you know, one candidate's like, I'm Rand Paul and I believe in schools. And then Trump was like, you're a complete loser. And everyone's like, you could do that.

51:47Ranjan Roy:no but it traveled more because of yeah and then it traveled because you're right that's

51:53Big Technology Podcast Host:interesting yeah it's possible i'm not saying it's impossible that was a weird election year also i mean not to bring us all the way back to it but like um i definitely you know i when i was also at buzzfeed i did some reporting on trump rallies and you know got retweeted by this tennessee gop account that was like you know the mainstream media will never show you this and which was funny because a like i was part of i don't know if you call the mainstream media but the media at the time and b that that account tennessee gop which was massively followed and influential due during the election was run fromst petersburg but that's a different story like

52:32Ranjan Roy:we could talk about that another time what are good good times but here's my so i got that scoop

52:39Big Technology Podcast Host:that there was going to be this twitter algorithm on friday and then there was a big thing that happened. It was called RIP Twitter. I don't know if you remember that. Like a million people tweeted RIP Twitter over a weekend after my story came out. And that led Jack Dorsey to say, we were never planning to introduce an algorithmic feed next week. And then my mentions flooded with people saying, you're a liar. Your career is over. How does it feel to have no credibility? And I thought I was totally gaslit. I thought I was done. And then they made the announcement

53:11Ranjan Roy:that tuesday the following tuesday jack just a minute just a minute reporting on that company that was crazy all right yeah so that's that's my theory i'm sticking to it okay should we talk

53:27Big Technology Podcast Host:about um the tech stocks very rough week for the tech stocks this from cnbc the tech stocks suffer their worst week in nearly a year driven down by war worries met illegal woes i mean microsoft is 30 % off it's high. 30%. Do you think this is just war or is it like a growing uncomfortableness and unease around the spending and the lack of near-term profits from AI for these guys?

54:01Ranjan Roy:So I do think it is very important this week what's happening. And I think that the kind of like headline side of it is, yes, like the market's been getting creamed this week. Like tech stocks have been on like epic runs anyways. So like giving a little back feels a pretty like a pretty natural thing. But to me, because of all the circular financing that's at the foundation of a lot of what's happening in AI right now, because of all the kind of like follow on effects of just if the tech giants start actually being in a little bit of trouble, what does that mean for the industry at large? So I think like, and again, Microsoft, I think, could be a whole other segment just in terms of why are they not doing as well as the others.

54:53Ranjan Roy:Give it to us in 60 seconds on Microsoft. Well, I mean, I think it's clear they have fallen behind. There's nothing exciting coming out. they have the install base of everyone using copilot, but people are not paying up and converting to paid subscribers in any meaningful way. They just replace copilot leadership. So like on the whole AI thing, it is pretty crazy that they had like open AI. They were the partner at the beginning very early. And now still, they're not really anywhere notable. Like what's the last exciting thing from microsoft in ai that you can think of bing i mean they had bing like they they actually they were the first they could have pushed this through yeah i think everyone's kind of coming around it and maybe it'll just be a good wake-up call i'm sure given their install base given their like who they are if they figure this out they will be a force, but I think there the market is recognizing it a bit.

56:04Big Technology Podcast Host:Okay. Let's end this week with one of our traditional product slash feature funerals. And ladies and gentlemen, we're gathered here today to pay our respects to the short and quite eventful life of the OpenAI adult mode, which has left our world indefinitely. It doesn't seem like it's coming back anytime soon. From the Financial Times, OpenAI has shelf plans to release an erotic chatbot indefinitely as it refocuses on core products following concerns from staff and investors about the effect of sexualized AI content on society. Sam Altman's startup has already delayed the release of its adult mode amid internal discussions over whether to scrap the mile entirely.

56:49Big Technology Podcast Host:The sexual chatbot faced growing pushback over how it could encourage unhealthy attachments to AI systems and expose minors to problematic sexual content. Rest in peace, adult mode on Chachaputi. Perhaps our planet is better off that you never saw the light of day.

57:08Ranjan Roy:How do you feel about this, Alex? Companionship has been one of the cornerstones of the Cantor at school of the future of AI.

57:18Big Technology Podcast Host:Well, I don't want to be the morality police and say you shouldn't be able to have cyber sex with your chatbot but speaking of businesses that opening i shouldn't be in this seems like one of them it just opens up this whole can of worms i think this is the right choice what do you think

57:35Ranjan Roy:matter the unquestionably the right choice like we've brought this up when the moment they said enterprise i was like you cannot have erotic chatbots running around and like then uh still pretends that people are going to trust you. But again, I don't know. Maybe they could have done something interesting. Maybe. This focus, all the creativity in the industry, are we losing the weirdness of Sora and potentially erotic chatbots now that everyone's just making claws?

58:08Big Technology Podcast Host:Well, speaking of potential competition, it does open up the door for other chatbot providers to use some of the underlying technology and make this erotic chatbot of their own just because you can't use it within the chat cpt interface maybe you can use like a gpt based adult mode chatbot and you can make a pretty good pretty good startup that way question and with the

58:36Ranjan Roy:disclaimer that we are not lawyers and will not pretend to do so but given the idea around liability in the social media use case, should an AI company be responsible for the end content created with its VAPIs? They have control over the... And again, I mean, actually, this ties back to the Pentagon and the war question, but should they be responsible?

59:04Big Technology Podcast Host:For adults, no. Adults should sign off that they don't know where this is going to go and they shouldn't be liable. But for kids, absolutely. What do you think?

59:13Ranjan Roy:Well, hold on. You're saying open AI, if some other service is calling their models via API, and then it's adults having erotic chatbots, is open AI delivering that service and content? Should they be responsible for whatever happens? And yeah, definitely if then kids are using this, that's a whole other thing. And should the service be liable? Should open AI also be liable? Okay, so two separate questions.

59:44Big Technology Podcast Host:Yes. That's great. That is a great question because it's a little bit different than like the comparison is cloud hosting, but it's a little bit different than cloud hosting, right? Because it's like cloud hosting is you store your stuff here and that enables you to do what you want to do. Whereas like chatbot is like you're using this technology to do what you want to do.

1:00:05Ranjan Roy:No, no. And it's actively generating new content.

1:00:09Big Technology Podcast Host:I think it's the person that deploys it. I don't think OpenAI should be liable if somebody else uses their technology. I think they should have terms of service because they want this technology to have a good reputation. Remember, there are the polling issues. But I don't think they should be legally liable if somebody else deploys it in this way.

1:00:28Ranjan Roy:Okay. Then in the terms of service, do you think they're going to kind of like prevent others from creating erotic chatbots? Probably not. I mean, because if you think about it, it's actually...

1:00:41Big Technology Podcast Host:Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Do we have to call it, like, make our own version of this?

1:00:46Ranjan Roy:No, no, no, no. Because... Maybe, maybe, but... If we do, you know what we're calling it.

1:00:53Big Technology Podcast Host:Wait, what? What, Chad?

1:00:56Ranjan Roy:Oh, no, stop. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I was going to say something in a whole different direction about... Imagine if it's a brilliant maneuver that they could actually like see a ton of API based revenue of basically everyone else creating erotic chatbots and then put that under the umbrella of kind of like enterprise revenue and have hockey stick charts about look how fast or enterprise and API business is growing because that's technically enterprise. But I can't think anymore.

1:01:31Big Technology Podcast Host:because i mean it would be diabolical a diabolical plan and it just might work explain to anyone who

1:01:41Ranjan Roy:missed i think you have to explain to anyone who missed last week's episode the context of uh

1:01:46Big Technology Podcast Host:of what this this app name all right folks so last week at the end of the show we talked about dry chatting which is where you practice a conversation with a chatbot before you go in and do it live with a real person. And so, of course, if you don't do that or the actual live chat with a person, it wouldn't be called a dry chat. It would be called a wet chat. And it's just disgusting to think about that. But I'm just saying it would be a good name for an adult chatbot app. I've gone over the line.

1:02:28Ranjan Roy:I think we should make this our second episode that ends with that term that I just cannot bring myself to say. And then hope next week it doesn't.

1:02:42Big Technology Podcast Host:Yeah, that will be our biggest hope. We can end an episode without bringing that up. But if I had to bet, I would say I doubt it. All right, Ronjan. Thank you so much for coming on. 50-50.

1:02:56Ranjan Roy:All right. See you next week. weekend, man.

1:02:59Big Technology Podcast Host:All right, everybody. Thank you for listening and watching. On Wednesday, Greg Brockman, president and co-founder of OpenAI, is going to come on and share lots of new information about OpenAI. Don't miss it. Thank you again, and we'll see you next time on Big Technology Podcast. Parles-tu français?

1:03:16Ranjan Roy:Hablas espagnol?

1:03:17Big Technology Podcast Host:Parli italiano?

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