545: Fat FI by 23: Building a 7-Figure Income & 8-Figure Portfolio in 3 Years

26:33Josh, during this time period, cash was going into your life during this period, right? You were not shelling out cash in the form of investing into this cold calling or other business activities. Your bank account was growing and increasing your optionality. Is that correct? Yeah. I was probably saving a little bit of money every month. I was just getting by with DoorDash versus saving like$2 ,000,$3 ,000 when I was doing a full-time. Got it. Okay. And did you put it all in cash or did you have investments going at this point? Right. And this is your freshman year of college for context, right?

27:06Yeah. Yeah. Or sophomore, junior year. I just kind of had it sitting in cash because I was going to do something with it active. I didn't know what to do yet. Yeah. I want to call that out too here because there's a lot of talk about investing and like, I'm not going to earn any money on that, especially in like 2021, I think when this is happening, 2022. But if you are like Josh and clearly going to do something entrepreneurial or keep trying along a list of different things there. I think you're foolish to put it into a 401k, to put it into any type of market investment, to put it into real estate or anything else.

27:41You should be keeping it in cash and allowing yourself options and options at 21. You weren't even 21. You're 20, 19 or 20 at this point in time. With that level of ambition and hustle and drive, I mean, you're just shooting yourself in the foot, taking your 10 % market return. It's so much better to have a 24-year-old with 50K in cold, hard cash than 50K in a 401K if they have your mindset and are reading all these books and taking all these actions at the same time. So, I don't know. Just an observation I have there. Sounds like that's what you were doing. All right. Well, so we have our first deal.

28:22We made$2 ,500. bucks. There's a long way to go between 2 ,500 bucks and the 4 to 7 million that I'm mentally computing for your current net worth. So how do we progress from there and continue the journey here? Yeah. So the start of the new year started 2022 is when I got my license and all of those people that I called started to fall over and started to sell. Now my first 11 deals from January to the end of March, early April fell out because I was, as David Green said, which I didn't conceptualize, but he did a good job. I took unqualified buyers and unqualified sellers, and I put them in a room together and it never worked in the beginning.

29:06And all these things happened and I was losing my mind, but I was like, I'm going to have to figure this out because there's 15 people around me that have and thousands of others around. So every deal that fell out. I was like, all right, what can I do differently? And I do that to the extreme. You've got to be conscious about it. But if you can always adjust what you're doing, you can end up controlling as much as you can. So with sellers, if they don't know enough about their property, if they say, oh, the rent could be this or the roof could be this, they're probably not as invested in making a move as you are on your end trying to get the sale done.

29:47And then the buyer, if they're not pre-approved or they don't have a clear buy box, if they haven't run their numbers on their end, all of those things can cause issues down the road. So it was literally just, all right, this happened, this deal, let's make sure it doesn't happen again over and over. And then the first deal closed in April of 22. And I think I closed like six deals that month and then like 10 the next month or close to it. And it all just was rolling. And I basically just didn't stop. Josh, when did you get licensed as an agent? Yeah. The beginning of that year, January 22. Okay.

30:26So you didn't really close. You didn't make any money really until you got licensed as an agent. The whole wholesaling, cold calling didn't really contribute to your income until you were licensed and doing it basically through the MLS and taking brokerage fees, I guess. Yeah. Did you graduate college? No. So I was 70 % of the way there probably. In your case, that would have been foolish, I think, to finish that play out. What did your parents think about all this? I think that's a big thing here. You said earlier on that you weren't sure about college, but you went to the school your parents wanted to.

31:06It sounds like that was Ohio State. I hear they have a mediocre football team, at least this last year. How did you get into and then out of college? And what was that dynamic like with your parents? It seems like we're always an influence on someone prior to college graduation years, typically. Of course. And I look up to my parents heavily in many ways. It wasn't easy. I think the main thing that really got me over it was like, hey, mom and dad, I made the last 90 days what I would make if I finish my degree, right? And I'm just getting started. People had some doubts like, oh, you had one good month or two good months.

31:46Let's see, right? And my motivation was like, I'm going to have that every single month. I have to. I got to keep this up. And that's kind of what allowed me to stop doing college and have it be relatively smooth. All right. We want to hear what your first year looked like from an income perspective right after this quick ad break. For those listening, while we're out, please go search for BiggerPocketsMoney in your podcast app and follow us so you can get the latest stories like Josh's. And of course, our eternal gratitude. My husband and I have multiple investment accounts across several different companies.

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35:15This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast, Smart Move. Being financially savvy? Smart move. Another smart move? Having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto. Bundling, just another way to save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. All right, welcome back. We heard the tipping point. Let's get into the outcome.

35:49Yeah. So when did you transition? So now you're starting to have some income as an agent and started to make some stuff. What are you making in that first year? What's your income look like the first year as an agent? Yeah. So my first deal closed in April and I finished out the year right around$600 ,000. So I got it rolling pretty quick. And I bought a couple of deals and made some mistakes with contractors. Your first deal was in, what did you say? April? And you finished the year with $600 ,000 in commissions to you, like net to you? Correct. Net. Yeah. That's not a bad first year. Yeah. That's pretty good.

36:34Yeah. Yeah. And you're generating this income by getting listings. Like I'll have a buyer that wants a turnkey duplex and I'm going to go find it off market and I'll be the only agent involved and I'll just connect them and I'll try to make 6%. That's the core of the business is try to be the only agent involved. Not every deal is like that, but that's the ideal. You get to control the most. I get to represent the buyer and be aggressive to the seller. And what's the average price on these deals? I was selling more Columbus then, so probably like 200-ish. Now I'm more Cleveland, so probably like 140, 150.

37:09So how many transactions, how many do the math here, to make$600 ,000 in net commissions at 6 % on$200 ,000? I think my average commission was like 4%, something like that. But it was around 120 transactions, 17 million gross. Did you have any staff or was this you as an individual? This was me and then one virtual assistant and then a second virtual assistant towards the end of the year. And I still run the same business with the same setup. That's unbelievable. Yeah, that's unbelievable. I'm kind of like my mouth. I'm just trying to pick it up. Be like, what does even happen here? So where are you sourcing your...

37:48You said you're connecting buyers to sellers off-market deals. So you have a buyer looking at it. So where are you sourcing your buyers from? I mean, people always want to find the deals, but where are you finding these specific buyers that you want to source? So as I was calling, I was learning things. and I just started posting on BiggerPockets. So I found a ton on BiggerPockets, LinkedIn, Facebook. You actually find a decent amount of buyers calling if you approach it the correct way. It was just a mixture of that. And then almost all the deals I found were from cold calling or MLS or some pocket listings and just trying to connect the dots.

38:25I have a notepad. I write down everything I do every single day, especially in the beginning, every little thing. I send email to a title agent about this. I texted this person this. It should be like 100 plus things. At the end of the day, you want to look at it and it's like, what did I repeat? What can I delegate? What makes me money? What doesn't make me money? And write out procedures for everything, right? Because that's what allowed me to scale quickly and maintain it with little staff is I think those processes. Well, I think something else you mentioned there, the neat thing you mentioned, your calls.

39:03And sometimes in the productivity world, if you can use the same action for multiple outcomes. So you kind of glossed over it, but you said something about if you call in the right way, you can find buyers too. You're calling for sellers, but you might find buyers as well. So you are now basically getting twice the benefit of your calls as opposed to connecting these buyers and sellers. So yeah, I think that's a neat concept for people to think about when you're starting a side hustle. Sometimes there's ways to make it easier that you're not even looking at. Scott, you had something to say. Well, I was just going to say, I love that approach with writing everything down.

39:44I did that a lot more five years ago than I do today and definitely should get back into it. I just love the analysis on an ongoing basis. I want to ask if this is a, once you graduate, is this going to 40 hours, 60 hours, 80 hours? Is this an all-consuming obsession, essentially, with building the business in the first year? Where on that scale are you in terms of effort you're putting in to generate this$600 ,000 in income? and I began building the real estate portfolio. Yeah. I mean, as soon as I stopped taking classes a little before the end of junior year, this was 100 hours a week or stinking near close.

40:27I would start working at 5am and I'd leave the office at 8pm very frequently. And then I would go to the gym a couple of days a week. And then Saturdays and Sunday mornings would be about building the business, taking the notes and implementing different procedures. And then Monday through Friday, we'll be working in the business. So one of my best friends is a Navy SEAL and him and I worked out in high school and he's crazy. I learned a lot of really cool things from him. And I just kind of meant what we did and to this. So this has been a natural extension of what you were doing in high school, essentially that, uh, in terms of the amount of output of effort that is going into advancing your goals, nothing's changed.

41:10It's just been a, it's been more directed more efficiently to the accumulation of money. But is that, is that a way to interpret what you just said? Oh yeah, for sure. Like, uh, yeah, Caden and I would go swimming in a freezing lake at five 30 in the morning before school or do pull-ups. We would do MRFs. We would do all these things. And then we work out after school again, and I'd work on basketball or whatever. I just, now it's just real estate. All right. So, so, you know, this is a really interesting, I love what we've heard here. And I think it's not a stretch to understand, hey, that this system has now spit out a compounding rate of return in terms of total income and then allowed you numerous investment opportunities.

41:51You can either, once you find a deal, you can either sell it to one of your many contexts in your buyer's list or buy it and turn it into a wealth building machine through your real estate investing and rehabbing business here. So it's not hard to understand how that kind of has snowballed at the highest level. Although, you know, I'd love to cover that in great detail at some future point here. Walk me through, you know, when we talk about BiggerPockets money, I would say that the vast majority of listeners here are folks working at W-2 or have a small business that is nowhere near as explosive from an income perspective as yours.

42:28And, you know, how do we translate your life lessons here into something that, you know, someone maybe without the drive to do 100-hour work weeks and relentlessly optimize every single part of their life and, you know, those types of things? How do we translate that into something that someone who doesn't want to rebuild Cleveland from an ambition standpoint can take away as a message in the wealth building journey? Yeah. If you already have a cash flowing business or a W-2 where money's coming in and maybe you have the desire to leave, don't leave and then invest. Stay. Cut your living expenses down as cheap as you can.

43:13I still live very cheap compared to what I make. That's never changed, never will. And use all of the money you have on the side to invest. Walk me through that point real quick to interrupt. I see your background here, right? And this is not the home of a$1.2 million per year income generator, right, that one would expect. I mean, you would probably be able to pay off this home entirely or buy it in cash three times in a year would be my guess based on the background we're looking at there. Remind me, and I know you said it, you want to rebuild Cleveland essentially here as your motivation. But remind me, like, is there an intent to harvest any of this income to drive your lifestyle at some point?

43:58Or is that so far off in your mind that it just wouldn't be efficient? I bought two cars that I liked in the last year and it's fun. What are the cars? What are the cars? I got a G wagon last year and then I just got a Porsche GT3. So I got two cool cars and they're fun, but like, that's not the motivating like drive at all. It's like, I get them to look in my garage and be like, I cannot slack. Otherwise I got to give the car back. It's more like a standard setter, I guess. But yeah, I was making a hundred K a month in a$900 a month apartment, driving a Honda Civic. Like, I was fine, you know, two years ago.

44:44Sorry to interrupt you there. You're conveying lessons. You're conveying, hey, help me understand how, you know, I think what I'm hearing here and I'm reacting to is, yeah, it would have been great if I'd done this at 23. But let me ask you some hard questions here. Do you regret not doing any of the partying or some of the other social activities that maybe some peers were doing at Ohio State at that point in time? I'm trying to understand the costs associated with this incredible outcome that have come in place here. And can I pick up nuggets from you if I'm not willing or able to commit the hundred hours of just pure intensity that you've sustained now for seven, eight years to get to this point.

45:36Does that make sense? For sure. There are definitely costs. This is not all upside. I mean, you know, I had to sacrifice a lot of family time. Like I literally didn't see any friends for like two years, like nothing, zero. You know, I guess parties would have been fun. I mean, I, you know, Here and there, in this journey, you do get lonely. It's 8.30 on a Friday and I'm tired and I just worked all day every day. But I have these things that I'm trying to implement so that I don't have to do this again. So I'm just going to sacrifice that night and then I'll sacrifice the next night. Like, you know, I'd rather do it now or be really intense for a couple of years and then relax for 50 years to some degree, taking advantage of leverage of money and labor.

46:23So, but yeah, there's definitely emotional sacrifice that you have to deal with along the way. It's not all upside. Josh, I would really like you, could you reach out when you do take that foot off the gas and come back on the show? Because that's going to be – that's a super interesting – I think that's one of the things that's coming to me from this. I have no doubt – anything can happen. You could lose it all with all this. But like this, this is consistent with what I would expect to hear from the extraordinary numbers you put, you talked about and posted at the beginning of the show here as the cost to achieving that.

47:04And I just wonder, like, I'm curious about when you will take that foot off the gas and what life will look like at that point because of the ridiculous amount of options you're going to have at 25 and then 27 and how that's going to explode for you. And I'm just super curious. Like, I don't, I don't know. I don't, I don't know very many people like you. I haven't talked with Mark Cuban or Mr. Wonderful or the other Shark Tank people that probably went through some sort of parallel journey here in tech or whatever to get to this. But I'm just curious what it will take for you to feel like you can take your foot off the gas and ease up and what you're going to do at that time.

47:45I don't know if you thought about that. No, that's fair. What I'm trying to achieve is like the conflict is I can still grow my dollar per hour by working harder in terms of volume on a daily basis. And I have not mastered anywhere near people or teams or other forms of leverage or media. Like I haven't gotten to that point. I'm starting there, but that's where I have to get to in order to not have my physical hours working on something be so valuable. So that's just the conflict of being an operator, switching over to an owner, it seems. Yeah, absolutely. But I will tell you this, I run bigger pockets with all this, right?

48:33And every day at 6 o 'clock, 6.30, whatever it is, right? I stopped my work and there's always like a hundred grand activity that like has to wait till tomorrow or a million dollar decision needs to go there because like, you know, there's other things there. And it's like that, I don't know, I'm empathizing with what you went through here because the same thing was going on for me in the early stages of my wealth building journey. I was nowhere near as successful as you are at this age or three or four years into my journey, but I read a hundred books. I house hacked with all my free time. I would wake up early, read a book, go to work, after work, write for the BiggerPockets blog, research my next real estate investment or try my next side hustle.

49:19And I sustained that for a period of five years or whatever. If I started at 20 and really actually grounded out the way that you did and the way I admire, it was something different. But I'm just curious, you know, it's just a philosophical thing around there's always more to chase on it. And when you have people involved and employees and those types of things, the leverage compounds even further. And that was a hard one for me thinking about as a CEO is like, well, at six o 'clock and like, yes, I could make 50 more thousand dollars if I work through the night on this one. But should I? Can I?

49:57Is that sustainable? So anyways, something to think about. And I think that this, I don't know if I'm, if I'm really dancing around it. I just haven't explored it as much with people on the show about what this cost of the success that you're experiencing is. And I think that's it. It's that it's that there's always, there's the, the opportunity cost of your time is so high now that it presents conflict about the other parts of life. Yeah. No, it totally does. And you know, I love the gym and working out and being physically fit. And I had to sacrifice that. I mean, I wasn't like getting overweight necessarily, but I was just not making it a daily part of my life.

50:33And now I am again. And I implemented that. And it was a struggle because I'm like, man, I could do something else. We'll make money or whatever. But once you get over the hump on one thing, then it gets comfortable and then you can go on to the next, go on to the next. I was just going to say, and hearing you both talk about your journey, this is really, really interesting. Hopefully, our listeners are really getting a lot out of this. I am. So, if no one is getting anything out of it. I'm enjoying it. But like this, I'm hearing seasons of life, you know, and I think it would be really cool to have you back on Josh down the road.

51:08Because from what I've seen with different investors, different business owners, especially, there is a grind for a season. And the people that come out later in life with fewer regrets usually are better at determining when seasons change. And I, and I've seen that again and again. So I, I would, and this is, I feel like I'm like a fatherly figure, like talking to you right now or something. This is not, you know, you, you're way more successful. This is what I was getting at Kyle. This is perfect. Thank you. You like, this is what I'm trying to wrap my head around is like total aberration. And this will not continue for 30 more years.

51:47Well, yes, that's it. It can, And people do continue it for 30 years, but they pay a higher price. I think there are seasons for everything. I mean, like in families, there's a season for young kids. There's a season for just busting your tail, building a business. But if you do it till you're 35, you're going to have a heart attack. I mean, there's just... So I'm listening to this and it's so cool that the season that you're in is just like a crush it season. But I think what you're going to run into is that you have such a drive and an intellect, honestly, of like analyzing and reanalyzing for optimization that you're going to you're going to have to at some point figure out when does the season change where that optimization is not the goal anymore?

52:33Like what is, you know, when you, you know, you have, you've mentioned a big why here, revitalizing, uh, part of your city. So like where, where does that transition take place? When does that transition take place? And you always have to, there's this opportunity concept. There is, there are always trade-offs. So you will always, to move into another season, you always give something up and it, but it just has to be better. You just have to remember that you're giving up something for something better. But this is just amazing hearing what you've got going on. But that's why what you said, Scott, having you back on in three to five years and be like, okay, are you about ready to have a heart attack?

53:14Or have you figured out is the season the same or is the season changed? I think it'll be really interesting because you've got... And I think people listening to this podcast, they don't have to be going 100 hours a week to be relating to this. They might need to grind something for a bit, but be ready to shift seasons before you lose your marriage, your kids, or your life to get a little serious on it. But yeah, let's move on to the next thing, Scott, here. But I just want to wrap that in that season's thought there. I just think that is the main thing. Because again, Josh, we don't typically talk to folks like yourself on BiggerPocketsMoney because, you know, BiggerPocketsMoney is really geared towards folks trying to accumulate maybe a few million dollars and call it a day and retire and reap the rewards of that, right?

54:07Like, I think what most people want who are listening to BiggerPocketsMoney is I want to walk my dog on Tuesday afternoon at two o 'clock and not have to worry about a work call or I want to, you know, like travel through Europe for six months and hang out. Or I just want to like chill at home and, you know, homeschool my kid or whatever. And I think that that's yours is a completely different take than what we're used to on BiggerPocketsMoney. Obviously, the Real Estate Podcast has much, many more ambitious entrepreneurs like yourself on there. And I'm glad that we explored this concept because I think that's the story here.

54:50The story is, yes, you are a super talented, genius level, ruthless optimizer with your time, making a huge impact, making tons of people better off, sellers, buyers, connecting the dots, housing. You have a big goal in all this. And the cost is 100 hours a week, sustained for four or five years. Um, and you know, I, I think it's just a really illuminating discussion here. So thank you. Yeah. I know that if I worked a hundred hours every week for the next 10 years, I would probably die to a heart attack or stress or something. No, I'm not. No, I've, I've scaled it back. I'm probably 60, 70, maybe something like that.

55:34But like the, one of the biggest joys in my process is honestly like teaching people around me to do as much of what I'm doing as they're willing and wanting to do. So one of my goals was to help five people make$100 ,000 this year. I think I'm going to hit it. And then try to double it next year and then see those people help other people. And that's been one of the coolest things in this whole process, honestly. Awesome, man. Well, where can people find out more about you, Josh. You can connect with me on BiggerPockets or message me. It's Josh Janus on both and I'll respond. Do you need to do a better job on social media?

56:14I don't feel like your time on social media is not worth it. It's just a black hole anyways. You just keep doing what you're doing. Yeah, I think you're doing just fine here. Well, Josh, thank you so much for coming on the BiggerPocketsMoney podcast. Thank you for taking us down this philosophical rabbit hole here. That's not where I think I was expecting it to go. But your journey is just so extraordinary and poses some really interesting high-level questions here. Congratulations on all your success and the huge optionality you've created for yourself. And yeah, come back on when you're entering the next season of life.

56:49I'm really curious to see what that looks like for you. I could see it going in so many ways and you're going to have such good choices for whatever that looks like. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on, Scott. Pleasure, Josh. Thank you, Kyle. All right. That was Josh Janis. Kyle, what'd you think? I mean, I'm just kind of speechless. You know, this was just a lot of fun. I loved how you kind of grilled him on his financials at the beginning to just dive in and make sure that we're talking to someone who's legit. And he is like this guy is just unassuming. like hands down, get it done, analyze what I did, redo it better and just rinse and repeat.

57:33I mean, it just, this was really neat to talk with Josh. Yeah. I've, I've learned over the years to be a lot more skeptical about these kinds of claims, you know,$5 million by age 23,$4 million in equity, that's 60 % of his portfolio. What was that? Five,$6 million implied net worth by age 23. But that's why I went and we've learned to press on that because we've had a couple of folks over the years that haven't been all that on there. And we haven't gone in and seen a financial statement from Josh, but I think that he passed you and my sniff test of telling the truth about what's going on here.

58:14And I believed him. And as a bonus and just a little dig here at certain individuals, he's not selling a$50 ,000 mentorship or mastermind or whatever class around this. He's just hustling with his business and trying to sell, buy and sell real estate and accumulate as much of it for himself as possible. So I believe him and trust the guy. Maybe I'm wrong on that and we'll find something out. But congratulations to Josh. I think he's built a wonderful business and it's an awesome thing. And I think what was even cooler about today's show is understanding the cost. And as much as I admire Josh and what he's achieved here, Kyle, I'm not sure I'd trade places with him and some of those things because of what he's given up to attain it.

58:55And I think that's an awesome lesson from this. And that's not a dig on him at all. It's a compliment and an appreciation. And I admire what he's done. But I also recognize the sacrifice, you know, in not having college, not seeing friends and family and putting in those work weeks to really bust it out and get to this position. He's going to have way better options than anybody I know by the time he's 30 in life as a result of that. And so he's super successful. But I think that was a super interesting and powerful takeaway from the conversation today. Yeah, for sure. That discussion on trade-offs, it was just so good.

59:30I think that's something everyone needs to think about. We all live different lives. We all have different priorities. We all have different stages of our lives. And what works for Josh might not work for Scott or me, but it might. And it might in a different season or the same season, but that was a really neat thing to dive into what he had chose to trade off for his vision of the future. And I think that was pretty neat. Yeah. And I think another thing is if anybody's coming out there and saying, here's a hack on how to do this. Here's how to get to Josh's outcome without the cost that he put in, the things that he's given up, you should run away.

1:00:09Like that's not how the world works. That's not how personal finance works. That's not how outlier success, like what Josh has seen here, works. It is an all-out commitment sustained for multiple years. And if you go that all out, if you're smart and work, if you work that hard and that smart, maybe you got a crack at something like that, like what Josh has had. But not without that combination. Well, Kyle, should we get out of here? Yep. Let's jump on out. All right. from this episode of the BiggerPocketsMoney podcast, he is Kyle Mast and I'm Scott Trench saying peace out Girl Scout. BiggerPocketsMoney was created by Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench.

1:00:46This episode was produced by Eric Knudsen. Copywriting by Calico Content. Post-production by Exodus Media and Chris Mickin. Thanks for listening.

1:01:33We'll see you next time.

1:01:38Mmm. So update on Dave. It's up to you. We'll take the laundry. Rinse. It's time to be great.