If We Started FIRE Over in 2025, Here's Exactly What We'd Do

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2:14Mindy Jensen:Hindsight really is 2020. Today, Scott and I are going to look back at how we both would adjust our retirement planning if we had to start all over today, both at our current ages and if we were 23. Spoiler, we might have done things a little differently.

2:36Mindy Jensen:Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the BiggerPocketsMoney podcast. My name is Mindy Jensen, and with me as always is my probably would change some things co-host, Scott Trench. Thanks, Mindy. I look forward to looking back today here on the BiggerPocketsMoney podcast with you. I'm super excited about this episode. This is just a fun kind of what-if scenario. I think there will be a couple of what-ifs, like what was our journey like? Will we have changed anything in our journeys? and then how would we approach it if we were starting over today? And I think that'll be a fun discussion here. So Mindy, can you give us the quick 60 second overview, perhaps of your journey to FIRE for folks who may not be familiar with it?

3:10Mindy Jensen:So my husband and I started investing in the late 90s, basically because we're saving for retirement. He worked in tech. So our portfolio has always been tech heavy, like up and coming tech heavy stocks. We were also live in flipping. So that's when you move into a house that is unattractive and you make it really beautiful and updated, and then you sell it. You have to live there for two of the last five years in order to pay$0 in capital gains taxes. So that is also what we did. I became a real estate agent in 2014 to help us find these properties. I had no intention of being a real estate agent, but then I started helping friends and then I started helping friends of friends and real estate agents make a lot of money.

3:53Mindy Jensen:This is a really great and fun for me way to generate a lot of income. So as Carl left his job, we weren't tapping into our retirement funds because I had the real estate agent job that was generating income, as well as finding a dream job at this little tiny company called BiggerPockets.com. Scott, how did you get to find? I love it. If I would summarize what you just said there about your journey, there's a frugality component for a long time. There's a handiness in working on live-in flips, which is a substantial boost in income over and over and over and over again that is very tax-advantaged.

4:31There's a good, maybe not incredible, top 1 % household income from Carl's tech career. And then right as he was leaving his job, or in that period, there was a little bit of overlap, but as he left his job, you had the job at BiggerPockets and this agent income that was more than enough to support your family. And that allowed this aggressively invested, well-positioned tech portfolio to just balloon to way past your FIRE number. And that's awesome, right? Is that the story in a nutshell, you think, for you?

4:58Mindy Jensen:It is, except I wouldn't characterize it as top 1 % income. I would characterize it as top 10 % income. Yeah, yeah. It was not top 1 % income. But it was good, but not incredible elite income that drove your journey to FIRE. It was these other moves in combination with enough and fridality. Yes. For me, to answer your question, I had everything go right. I graduated from college in 2013 and I had three grand or whatever cash remaining after a trip to Europe, no debt. Very fortunate. And I started my career and the playbook was handed to me. You said that there wasn't all these people talking about this.

5:33Well, they were by 2013. Mr. Money Mustache outlined everything you needed to do to become retire early. And I just had the privilege of learning all of that and learning from BiggerPockets about real estate. So I avoided making any really large mistakes with money. I didn't spend aggressively and I was able to accumulate about$20 ,000 in that first year. I bought a house hack. The market's obviously done really great over it when you take the last 10, 11 years in context for that. I bought multiple properties over time. I joined a startup at BiggerPockets, which was a rocket ship and won, the lottery, as we talked about briefly earlier.

6:08And I had the opportunity to just really make pretty good, I think, overall decisions on the spending front, on the investing front. Most of my wealth was invested in stocks and real estate and join a business that had incredible opportunity for my career associated with it. So I had all these levers we talk about, spending less, earning more, investing, and creating assets. I just got a wonderful 10-year journey of maximizing my learning and opportunity in all of those areas, basically. And that made it, relatively speaking, easy and straightforward for me to achieve FIRE over that period of time.

6:43Mindy Jensen:Scott, what I'm hearing you say is you took action. You didn't just sit around. You didn't spend every dime that came into your pocket. You were looking for a different way. You found the different way. And then you followed the different way. I think that last point is a point that we cannot beat home enough. You have to take action. It's one thing to find Mr. Money Mustache, but it's quite another to actually do the things necessary to make it to early retirement. I certainly will give myself credit for acting on a lot of these things and then thinking about them, obsessing over them, learning and trying to optimize or improve in all these areas and stay in tune with stuff.

7:20But I also did have the fortune of just like, oh, here's the obviously correct playbook. And then the wherewithal to realize, yes, that is obviously correct. I'm going to do that. I've definitely made mistakes along the way. We'll talk about those. But none of them have been major blunders at a strategic level that have really meaningfully blocked or delayed my journey to fire.

7:38Mindy Jensen:Okay, Scott. So that is how you got there starting at age 23. Let's pretend that all of your wealth has been wiped out or you never had any to begin with. And now here you are at age 35. What would you do different? Yeah, and I think context matters, right? Because I was single and 35. I'd repeat a lot of the same things in the same way, right? I know some folks who, for example, have been divorced and are starting over. And there's a lot of parallels between that journey and the journey I could take as a 23-year-old at that point in time. But as a married man with two children right now, I would say I would not be as aggressive about the pursuit of fire, right?

8:15There's things that are more important than the pursuit of fire. And I would recognize that living in a more safe or more welcoming or more nurturing environment where family memories are going to be made than a house hack in the up-and-coming part of town would probably be higher on the list. I'd probably be more cautious to leave a career. I'd be more dependent, I guess, or more willing to depend on the benefits that come with a career. I'd be more focused on that. And so I think there'd be less of an entrepreneurial itch and a little bit more. And I think I would just extend the timeline. I think I would still make frugal decisions on the car purchase.

8:46I'd look for a live-in flip, maybe something light or those types of opportunities, or maybe like a higher-end house hack. I certainly would consider those. We did, of course, live in one of my duplexes just like that for a year before moving into our permanent home here down in the suburbs. So I think I would do some of those things. And I think I would still follow most of the other playbook items, like the order of operations, but I wouldn't be saying, Oh, I'm starting from scratch with maybe a hundred, 135 ,000 household income, perhaps situation. I'm starting from that situation. I wouldn't be like, Oh, I'm going to fire in 10 years.

9:15And that situation, I'd be like, the timeline is going to be a little longer. If I'm starting from scratch and I'm going to have to really, you know, keep my core expenses low, but also balance the need to take that income and provide a good quality of life now in combination with you trying to get ahead for more traditional retirement. So I'd be aiming for something more in like my late 50s, maybe late 50s than my 40s if I was starting over at 35 and trying to build wealth. Bindi, what would you do if you were starting over today here at your current age and with your current family dynamic?

9:48Mindy Jensen:So my age, I am 53. My family dynamic is my oldest daughter is in college and my youngest daughter is in high school. With our family dynamic, I am paying for my oldest daughter's college degree. And if I was starting out at 53 with essentially a$0 net worth, I would not be paying for her college. I would have her get student loans that hopefully I could help her pay for later. But right now, I would be focusing on getting myself to retirement age, traditional retirement age with enough money to retire or close to it. That's 12 years from now is traditional retirement age for me. So I would be getting my real estate license.

10:34Mindy Jensen:I've had my license for 13 years now. I would, if I wasn't already an agent, I would get a license and I would be doing everything I possibly could to find new clients to help buy and sell real estate. My real estate partner, Libby Earthman, has a really unique way to approach open houses that generates a lot of leads for her. I would also emulate that because without the unfair advantage that I have of being a podcast host and my husband has a blog, I live in Longmont, Colorado, and a lot of fire people want to move to Longmont, Colorado, I get a lot of leads that way. But if I didn't have that, I would go and listen to episode 64 of the Agent Goldmine podcast and see how my friend Libby does her open houses because she has generated so many leads from her open house strategy that she now can't take my extra leads.

11:30Mindy Jensen:So now I have to look for another partner. But getting a real estate license, I think would be key to generating extra income. There's a lot of different side hustles that people can do. I think real estate agent is an excellent side hustle or even could be your full time job if you are generating enough money from it. And now a quick word from our sponsors.

11:55All right. Welcome back to the show. I think that what's interesting there is, you know, what I did is I went all out on financial independence when I was 23. And what I'm hearing you say is you would do the same at 53. And I think that that's right. We talked about Barb, this fictional persona we created a while back called Broke at 50 on an episode called Broke at 50, Retired at 60. You know, Barb is broke at 53 and starting over. What do you do? Well, now the context has again changed. And now there's a very real risk of not being able to live a comfortable retirement. And that fear, I think, would change everything about what I just said and make me want to go all out to build wealth and really build a strong, fortified financial position in whatever capacity I could.

12:44And then I'd be forced to be very frugal once again. and to be forced to look for all these entrepreneurial opportunities to make more money, perhaps as an agent, perhaps as some other sales role. And to be forced to consider serial house hacks and real estate. And my family's comfort, I think, would then come second again, because you're thinking more time and you have less time, right? And I would not want to put myself in a position where my adult children would then maybe potentially have to support me later in life. I'd want to take care of that now. And that would be worth the trade-off of the less stability or less consistency in that environment.

13:16That's how to imagine things. All right, is that what you're saying to a certain degree here, Mindy, with this?

13:20Mindy Jensen:That's exactly what I'm saying. And the reason is, Scott, look at your single self and my current self. You were single instead of married, but you didn't have any kids. I have a daughter in college in California, so she doesn't live in my house. I have another daughter who can drive herself, who honestly doesn't want to hang out with mom because I'm not cool anymore. So while I would prioritize still connecting with her, I'll have a lot of free time to do things to generate side income and the hustle because she's out with her friends. You as a married 35-year-old father of two small children have a very different family dynamic than I do right now.

14:04Mindy Jensen:So you want to prioritize spending time with your two-year-old and not quite one-year-old. And that's great. When I was 35, I also did that. But now that essentially my kids are almost out of the house or one of them is out of the house, I have a lot more free time to do this hustle. I don't think I would house hack, but the live and flip I might continue to do. I think the times to pull all those levers and go really hardcore are when you're young and single. And then when you're, you know, maybe a little older and the kids, you're starting to get close to that empty nest, even if you're not quite there yet.

14:37Is there a way for your kid to go to the same high school at least? and for you to house hack or find those opportunities to build wealth in every lever you possibly can to get ahead. If you're broke and starting over, that's the context we have here. Now, there's a whole sliding scale here. If you're close to fire and you're 33 and you have a little one, finish the play and go do it, right? If it's a year or two on there. But if it's going to be a real consequence to your family for a very prolonged period of time to defer the life you really want, just to retire a few years earlier, maybe I wouldn't make those trade-offs.

15:10And I think that's the nuance that's come into the discussion for me in the last 10 years. When I wrote Set for Life, for example, the first time, I had no room for that nuance at all, right? Because I was right in 26 at that point in time. And when I revised it a few years later, five years later, when I was 30, 31, I was able to put that nuance back in to the revision of it because there is that nuance, but I do stand by and think that it's so valuable to go all out in those first years out of college in particular, because college and the lifestyle you want when you're like in your early twenties is not that expensive.

15:46And as long as you don't just assume this overhead of the car and the fancy apartment or the house, I mean, you can just have all the fun and build all the wealth. Just don't make those big mistakes and go all out for those couple of years. You're going all out anyways at your career, almost certainly in a regard, regardless which direction you choose. So why not do it in a way that sets you up to become financially independent? Because it's so great to get to that point in your 30s, if you choose to, and when you start a family.

16:10Mindy Jensen:I think going all out when your family dynamic allows for it is going to be the difference between really, really generating that wealth and that income or kind of just bumping along. What would you do if you're starting over at 23? So this time you're not 53, you are 23. You're starting over today here in 2025. Okay, if I was 23 and starting over in 2025, I would, again, get my real estate license because there is just so many opportunities available to generate a lot of income as a real estate agent. I would invest in the stock market and I would create the habit of investing in the stock market starting today.

16:53Mindy Jensen:I only have five extra dollars this month. I'm gonna throw that in the stock market. I only have 25 extra dollars next month. I'm gonna throw that in the stock market. And then I'm gonna look for side hustles that I can do to generate more income that I can put towards my retirement. I want to be able to max out my Roth IRA. I want to be able to max out my HSA. I want to be able to max out my 401k, assuming that I have a traditional job that provides me with a 401k. If I don't, then I'm gonna look to the Roth IRA for that opportunity. But also if I can generate some self-employment income, I have the opportunity to contribute to a solo 401k.

17:38Mindy Jensen:And that opens up even more amounts of money that I can contribute to my retirement accounts. I'm going to look at investing in after-tax stocks so that I can generate ways to create income after I retire that are outside of my traditional retirement accounts so that I'm not falling victim to the middle class trap that I learned about on this podcast called Bigger Pockets Money. How about you, Scott? Today, 2025, you are blessed with only being 23 years old. What would you do? I'm in agreement with you on every level. I'll just frame it differently at the strategic lens. And I'd say the next 30 years is going to result in something really interesting.

18:19And I think for some people, very wonderful outcome here, right? AI is, there's every reason to believe that AI is going to increase crop yields per acre. It's going to make efficiencies come down and distributing scarce resources and goods so that real costs fall over time on there. And I think that it's going to enable this fire community. And I think that if anything, the stakes are so much higher to get on the other side of the capitalism equation early in life than they ever have been because the bifurcation between the life you're going to have at 30, 35, if you build wealth and participate in the growth of the economy is going to be so much greater, so incredibly bifurcated from the people who don't focus on those skill sets and kind of spend every dollar they have and don't really see their careers blossom.

19:08I think it's going to be so incredibly different that the stakes could not be higher. It's the difference between basically doing everything you want and have in the world as your oyster and not having a lot of options later in life and being kind of stuck and trapped into a place that's really hard to get out of treading water. I think it's the same situation that I've kind of unfolded in the last 10 years, but maybe with even a little bit higher stakes now. And so I think that the strategy is really keep those expenses low, invest in ways that will participate in that, in that economy. I think there's every reason to believe that companies are going to grow over the next 10 to 20 years.

19:39And I would be having fear in a way I maybe didn't have or wasn't as acute when I was 23 back in 2014 around the valuations of the stock market. So I might be even more inclined to really make that house hack a priority before those stock investments for the first year or two. I'd probably be saving that in cash and getting ready to do that. There's a little bit of market timing that I'll get poo-pooed on, but that would be probably how I'd be thinking about things in the current market. At least you're not buying at the top of the real estate market in a lot of these metros. And I think that I would be really interested in entrepreneurship, I'd be thinking AI is a real threat to the types of work that used to be rewarded by 10 years of experience in a company, like doing financial analysis.

20:20That's going to be really hard. The guys who are already experienced in financial analysis are probably fine, but the new guys trying to get into it are going to have a really hard learning curve to get good enough where their skillset is more advanced than what an AI can produce. And so I'd really be thinking about entrepreneurship and becoming a jack of all trades in all these different categories because those opportunities I think are going to move quickly. There's going to be a really big opportunity. You're going to make a lot of money really quickly if you're an entrepreneur skilled in AI in this area, and then it's going to close after six months or a year.

20:47And then the next one's going to open up and that's going to close. And I think that's the kind of skillset that I would be developing is how do I really get good at trying lots of experiments very quickly with this entrepreneurial hat on in order to get there? So I think low expenses, investing, like we talked about, and entrepreneurship all underscored by the sense of urgency about the stakes being very high for getting the other side of the capitalism equation and building a financially independent portfolio early in life.

21:13Mindy Jensen:I like that, Scott. I like the urgency because I want to encourage younger people to be focused on where they're putting their efforts instead of just letting life drag them along. In a more practical sense, I'll put it this way, right? It's the playbook we've talked about. We talked about this for Joe a million times, you know, for Barb. It's keep expenses low, work your job and make sure that there's a baseline there. Don't depend on it. I wouldn't model out my career growth the same way I would 10 years ago. Maybe it'll be better, maybe it'll be worse, but I'd measure it in a much more volatile fashion, right?

21:43Boom and bust for a lot of folks that are starting their careers now. And it's about keeping your expenses low and saving the booms if that comes to pass and making sure that your expenses are lower than even the really lean times in there. And I think that if you do that, there's a really good chance you become very, very wealthy very, very quickly if you play your cards right and look for those opportunities. So that's the kind of core underpinning of the playbook. And then house hacking always helps. That's a great steady flow of income, keeps your high probability flow of income or lower expenses.

22:11And then, of course, broad-based diversification across companies and participating in the growth of the economy.