In short
BiggerPocketsMoney episode on 13 financial independence (FIRE) mistakes that can delay FIRE, split into 5 “obvious” errors and 8 subtler ones.
Guests
No episode guests. Hosts are Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench.
Guest backgrounds
Not applicable (no guests). Mentioned community members include Lee Rowan (entrepreneur) and James Keefe (pharmaceutical industry, 20 years), plus Long Angle members (8,000+ entrepreneurs/executives/investors).
Key claims
Start investing earlier; track spending and net worth; avoid buying too much house/car early; prevent lifestyle creep; don’t confuse income growth with progress (savings rate matters). Subtle mistakes: plans requiring “rational forever,” treating healthcare as generic, blind faith in the 4% rule without spending certainty, underestimating identity/purpose risk, wrong account contributions (tax/optionality), ignoring tax liabilities/RMDs, insufficient diversification, and not exercising “spending muscles.”
Notable examples
Scott’s duplex “house hack” with ~$1,550 mortgage vs ~$1,150 rent; healthcare premium risk rising with age; 4% rule risk tied to volatile spending (kids/daycare, college, healthcare).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOIntroduction to Financial Independence Mistakes
0:00 to 0:45
Hosts discuss the importance of recognizing financial mistakes on the path to independence.
“When you're ready to start your business, Northwest Registered Agent helps you do more than just file paperwork.”
Introduction to Financial Independence Mistakes
1:46 to 2:15
Hosts discuss the importance of recognizing financial mistakes on the path to independence.
“I think that filing my taxes is among my least favorite activities on earth.”
Introduction to Financial Independence Mistakes
2:58 to 3:18
Hosts discuss the importance of recognizing financial mistakes on the path to independence.
“Is selling a bunch of stocks to buy real estate right before the market goes up 10 % in a given year count as a mistake?”
First Major Mistake: Delaying Action
3:18 to 4:00
Starting early is essential for building wealth and achieving financial independence.
“Before we get into those mistakes, I'll let you know that we're breaking these out into five very obvious ones.”
Second Mistake: Not Tracking Finances
4:00 to 5:56
Tracking spending and net worth is crucial for financial success.
“I mean, starting early just is such a it's such a basic building block of personal finance discussions.”
Third Mistake: Overextending on Housing and Cars
6:21 to 7:26
Avoid excessive spending on housing and vehicles to maintain liquidity.
“The third mistake is going to be buying too much house or too much car too early.”
Strategies for Keeping Housing Costs Low
7:26 to 10:01
Explore strategies like house hacking to reduce housing expenses.
“When I met you, you were working at Bigger Pockets and you owned a duplex and you rented out half of the duplex and lived in the other half.”
Fourth and Fifth Mistakes: Lifestyle Creep and Income Growth Misconceptions
10:01 to 11:39
Learn about the dangers of lifestyle inflation and confusing income growth with progress.
“I don't think that privacy in my 20s would have been worth the incredible reward that that choice and others like it compounded into here in my 30s.”
Subtle Financial Independence Mistakes
11:39 to 14:00
Discuss overlooked mistakes in financial planning and the importance of adaptability.
“I'll also say that after you reach FI, there is a switch that needs to be flipped to some degree, which is you probably do need to spend more, right?”
The Fallacy of Perfect Withdrawal Strategies
14:00 to 17:31
Explore the unrealistic expectations around decumulation and tax optimization in financial planning for early retirement.
“a$2.5 million, for example, FIRE portfolio to sustain your spending.”
Show all 19 chapters
Understanding the Limitations of the 4% Rule
17:32 to 18:59
Learn about the misconceptions surrounding the 4% withdrawal rule and its implications for early retirees.
“I think there's like levels of like understanding of the 4 % rule in the finance world, right?”
The Importance of Knowing Your Post-Retirement Purpose
19:00 to 21:03
Discuss the risks of retiring without a clear sense of purpose and how it affects financial independence.
“declines depending on where you are in life.”
Avoiding Common Investment Account Mistakes
21:03 to 28:05
Understand the pitfalls of account contributions and the importance of diversification in retirement savings.
“I like the way that this is worded, Scott.”
Understanding 401k Contributions and Tax Liabilities
28:05 to 30:51
Learn about the risks of maxing out 401k contributions early in your career and the importance of tax strategy.
“And there could be a real consequence there.”
Diversification Strategies in Investing
30:52 to 32:46
Explore the importance of diversification in investment portfolios and the common missteps investors make.
“Yeah, I mean, your money is going into investments.”
Balancing Enjoyment and Financial Discipline
32:47 to 35:05
Discover the importance of enjoying life during the journey to financial independence without compromising long-term goals.
“What's a good decision and what's a good outcome?”
Evaluating Career Promotions and Their Impact
35:06 to 36:30
Understand the implications of accepting job promotions on personal life and financial goals.
“Take a job that is a little bit more flexible.”
Awareness of Common Financial Independence Mistakes
36:31 to 37:56
Review the key mistakes in the financial independence journey and the importance of proactive financial planning.
“Is any of them surprising or any ones you think people are missing?”
Awareness of Common Financial Independence Mistakes
37:57 to 38:10
Review the key mistakes in the financial independence journey and the importance of proactive financial planning.
“So we wanted to just introduce these mistakes.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Mindy Jensen:When you're ready to start your business, Northwest Registered Agent helps you do more than just file paperwork. You get all the tools to build a real business identity from day one. A business address, website, phone number, operating agreement, free guides, and more at no extra cost. Northwest Registered Agent has been helping small business owners and entrepreneurs launch and grow businesses for nearly 30 years. They are the largest registered agent and LLC service in the U.S. with over 1 ,500 corporate guides. These are real people who know your local laws and can help you in your business every step of the way.
0:33Mindy Jensen:With Northwest, your business is set up to stand on its own from day one. That means your home address, personal email and phone number stay private. Don't pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for what you can get from Northwest for free. Visit NorthwestRegisteredAgent.com slash money free and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at northwestregisteredagent.com slash moneyfree. There's a version of financial success where you've done everything right and still feel like you're figuring it out alone. The peers who could actually help you aren't easy to find.
1:07And most communities built for that stage aren't really built for that stage. Lee Rowan had heard about Long Angle from entrepreneurs he respected. He says this about Long Angle. What Long Angle has offered me is a level of depth and engagement that I didn't expect. There were no stupid questions. I've been able to expand my learning, expand my strategies, and learn how to raise my family, run my business, and invest better. Long Angle is a vetted community of 8 ,000 plus entrepreneurs, executives, and investors across 45 countries, comparing notes on the decisions that matter across borders and decades of experience.
1:38Membership is free for those who qualify. Apply at longangle.com slash money. That's longangle.com slash money. I think that filing my taxes is among my least favorite activities on earth. That's why we've partnered with a new tax planning firm here at BiggerPocketsMoney. They're a tech-forward, AI-integrated CPA firm that works with high-income business owners and professionals year-round, helping you find tax savings and plan ahead instead of just showing up when it's time to file. If your income is getting complicated, but not so complicated that you can justify$10 ,000 in accounting fees every year, our new partner in Gelt is worth a look.
2:15Go to biggerpocketsmoney.com slash FI Pro to learn more.
2:19Mindy Jensen:That's biggerpocketsmoney.com slash F-I-P-R-O. Mindy and I are so grateful for the following sponsors who make BiggerPockets money possible. If you're chasing financial independence, you've probably optimized your savings rate, cut your expenses, and invested consistently. But one of the biggest things standing between you and financial independence isn't your income, it's your mistakes.
2:49Mindy Jensen:Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the BiggerPocketsMoney podcast. My name is Mindy Jensen, and with me as always is my has-never-made-an-investing-mistake co-host, Scott Trench. Thanks, Mindy. Is selling a bunch of stocks to buy real estate right before the market goes up 10 % in a given year count as a mistake? If so, I think I've made plenty of mistakes and some big ones here. We're going to break down the five biggest mistakes that many people make on their way to financial independence today. The ones that quietly cost you years of freedom, hundreds of thousands of dollars, and a whole lot of stress.
3:18Before we get into those mistakes, I'll let you know that we're breaking these out into five very obvious ones. These will be no surprise. You've heard them before. Then we're going to talk about eight more subtle mistakes that I think are largely ignored, debatable, or really, you know, more kind of under the surface, more insidious than the ones that are most obvious to the fire community. So without further ado, Mindy, do you want to kick us off with the biggest mistake?
3:44Mindy Jensen:Waiting too long to start. Scott, you've heard about financial independence and you're like, oh, yeah, that sounds like a good idea. And then a few months or a few years go by. You hear it again and you think, oh, I'm going to do that down the road. Start. Start today. Yeah. I mean, starting early just is such a it's such a basic building block of personal finance discussions. The compounding journey makes such a difference. You've all seen the math or heard the math, I'm sure, from anybody who's been around in the finance space for a long time talking about the huge advantages that someone who starts investing even small amounts in their early 20s or even before can have over the course of a lifetime.
4:19And it's not really even just there. The compounding journey begins in your career at an early age. It begins in high school with the grades you get, college, whatever those first jobs, what you do in your free time. All that stuff makes such an enormous compounding difference. and the game can be very easy, relatively speaking, for young people who get a big jump out the gate and benefit from that from the rest of their lives. And it can be conversely really hard to catch up later in life. The second biggest mistake is not tracking your spending and net worth. This is a game, right? This is a competition in a relative sense to your best life.
4:53And you can't play a game if you don't have a scoreboard set up, right? This is how much I make, how much I'm spending and how my asset and portfolio is growing. Am I moving towards that number that represents financial independence for me?
5:06Mindy Jensen:Yes. And this is something that continues throughout your journey. You don't just track your spending at the beginning and say, oh, I'm set. You need to know how much you're spending because as your life progresses, as we just go further down the calendar years, things get more expensive. You don't want to make the mistake of thinking that you're spending$36 ,000 a year and that's how you calculate your fine number. And then you get to retirement and you think, oh, I'm actually spending 60 or you realize you're actually spending 60. Your retirement number is going to change. Keep an idea of what you are spending is, what your net worth is.
5:45Mindy Jensen:And this doesn't have to be an every minute thing, but you want to have this in your mind so that you are progressing down the actual path that you need, not the path that you think you're on. Absolutely. By the way, you can track these numbers in a spreadsheet. You can track them in a free app, or you can go with the BiggerPockets monies partner, Monarch.com, which is what Mindy and I use to track our spending and net worth. And that is, we have a deal with Monarch where if you are listening to the show and you use the code Pockets, P-O-C-K-E-T-S, you will get 50 % off your first year, which I think is$99 or$100.
6:18So go check that out at Monarch.com. That's the tool that I use with my wife, Virginia, and Mindy, you and Carl use to manage your finances. All right. The third mistake is going to be buying too much house or too much car too early. This is the real liquidity killer. Everyone talks about, oh, don't buy a cup of coffee or whatever, how much that habit can cost you over the course of decades. And that's real. There is a very real dynamic component in the context of aggregation of marginal gains and not overspending on the day-to-day items. But really, the liquidity killer is going to be how much you're paying for rent, what your mortgage or fixed housing costs are, what your car payment is, or how much you shell out on that car.
7:00If you can keep those expenses controlled, the game gets so much easier to build wealth. I mean, it just fixes those costs at very low levels and allows all of that to go towards either discretionary spending or investing. You might even be able to live a higher quality of life in a relative sense in terms of the little enjoyments that bring you true pleasure every day and build more wealth if you keep your housing and vehicle costs under control.
7:25Mindy Jensen:Scott, let's play a little game. When I met you, you were working at Bigger Pockets and you owned a duplex and you rented out half of the duplex and lived in the other half. What was your mortgage payment for the entire duplex? I believe the mortgage payment was$1 ,550. The other side rented for$11.50 and I had a roommate paying$5.50. So there was a very, very low housing outlay there. I wasn't for free because those costs didn't account for maintenance and utilities and those types of things that came up, but it was pretty close. That particular property was in an up and coming neighborhood, not in a amazing neighborhood.
8:02Mindy Jensen:If you were going to go rent an apartment back then, you could have very easily paid $1 ,500 for the rent on an apartment. a decent apartment, not an amazing apartment. Would you say that's fair? Well, before that, I lived in an apartment for$1 ,200 before I bought the duplex, right? And I had a roommate. So that made it fairly cheap. Ah, you did have a roommate. So your choice to purchase a property instead of continuing to live in a property with a roommate changed a lot of your finances because essentially your rent, your housing expenses every month were almost zero or actually zero, not including maintenance and all of that.
8:44Mindy Jensen:But you don't have maintenance every single month. The house hack is an ideal way to do this in many situations. It's harder now in 2026 than it was in 2014 to find those opportunities, right? This was not a very popularized term, the house hack in 2014. So I was relatively limited in my competition. You could buy a duplex and pretty much make it work or come pretty close with, you know, 5 % down. And I think it's a much harder dynamic in 2026. But still, the question is, how do I keep my housing costs low, right? And I think that if you're asking that question and making the most reasonable choice in your context, that is going to be make a much bigger difference than almost everything else.
9:22And the same thing goes for your vehicle.
9:25Mindy Jensen:Yes. And it's not about just house hacking. You can be the tenant in somebody else's house hack. That's a way to keep your housing costs lower than if you have your own apartment and you're paying the entire rent yourself. Just because housing costs have gone up since Scott did this in 2015 doesn't mean that's the only way to keep your housing costs low. Have a roommate, live with your parents, live with somebody else's parents. Is it fun having a roommate? Yeah, sometimes and sometimes not. But keeping your housing costs low and taking that money and investing it, getting started today is going to be your best bet.
10:00Yeah, I'll tell you this. I don't think that privacy in my 20s would have been worth the incredible reward that that choice and others like it compounded into here in my 30s.
10:10Mindy Jensen:And, you know, tagging off of that, Scott, is lifestyle creep before you reach financial independence and even after you reach financial independence. Lifestyle creep is described as as your income grows, your spending grows to your lifestyle could have creeped up by graduating from college and saying, I don't want to have roommates anymore. I have my first real job as an adult. I deserve to have my own place. And I deserve to have a place that has a doorman and a pool and a hot tub and a gym inside and happy hours on Friday night and free breakfast every morning. It's not free. You're paying for that in exchange for the amount of rent that you're paying.
10:49Mindy Jensen:So your lifestyle didn't creep up when you were in your 20s. And And frankly, mine didn't either, but it was because I wasn't making any money. I think that with lifestyle creep, there's two dynamics to it, right? One is when I was 23, like I was a fool to think that my lifestyle was not going to increase if I wanted as I did. And we eventually got married and started a family. But of course, that's a different dynamic than when you're a single man leaving college, right? And biking around town. But I also think that if you can fix your spending at any point, once you kind of got settled into that more permanent lifestyle, that is the big catalyst for FI.
11:24Even if it's fairly high in that initial baseline, because career progressions, because some components of that spending might be fixed, like your home mortgage payment, for example. If you can just stop moving the goalposts, you can make FI that much more realistic and achievable. I'll also say that after you reach FI, there is a switch that needs to be flipped to some degree, which is you probably do need to spend more, right? A lifetime of pursuing wealth to achieve financial independence can wire your brain to be overly frugal and not spend the wealth that you have amassed on there. And so I think that Mindy, this is something that you struggled with to switch over to a spender.
12:02You haven't moved the goalposts and you probably should move them now that you are fine. Your portfolio withdrawals can support a much, much greater spending level of spending than you have in your life. I will say that this has not been a problem for me in the same way as many in the FI community. So trench household is free and clear from this particular concern.
12:19Mindy Jensen:It has been difficult to flip the switch on the spending. One of the things is me asking myself, how can I use my wealth to make my life better? The last obvious mistake, I think, is going to be confusing income growth with progress, right? This is not obvious to a very novice personal student of personal finance, but it's obvious to anyone in the FIRE community who's listened to more than a handful of podcasts, right? Wealth accumulation is a function of your savings rate. And if your income is going up, but your savings rate is not, you're not accelerating your progress towards financial independence in any meaningful way, right?
12:55So income growth matters in the context of personal finance because it allows us to increase our savings rate if we keep our spending relatively constant or at least see a fat rise slower than our income growth.
13:07Mindy Jensen:Yeah, that's a really good point, Scott, that I don't think a lot of people really take into consideration. OK, let's look at some of the more subtle FI mistakes, those sneaky ones that kind of creep up on you while you're not paying attention to everything. Number one, building a plan that requires you to be rational forever. And clearly, this is something that you wrote down, Scott. Explain rational forever. I've been going crazy in the last few weeks and building this like super app. It's not ready for publication yet. That like that talks about how retirement withdrawals and early retirement all map to keeping a low income tax bracket and optimizing for ACA subsidies and those types of things.
13:46We've talked to Cody Garrett and Sean Mullaney, authors of tax planning to and through early retirement. We've talked about decumulation strategies and portfolios with Frank Vasquez. And so as I put all this together, I'm realizing there's an optimal path to withdrawing from a$2.5 million, for example, FIRE portfolio to sustain your spending. And it's ludicrous. It's there. You can do it. It's not insane to say that this can't be executed for a year or three. But to have your plan hinge on optimal decumulation across decades in a changing tax landscape and health care landscape is ludicrous. It's not a good plan to say I'm going to be this tax optimized genius for 30 years until I get the traditional retirement.
14:33And I think that's the failure of a lot of FI discussions out there is we're talking about this idealized state and not the practical, messy reality that actually maps to the vast majority of people's portfolios. So this is not a mistake for the small handful of people who are truly able to execute an elite level forever and DIY a lot of it. But I think it is too much to ask of me, for example, on here. And I've put the 10 ,000 hours into studying this subject in already. So that's what I mean by building a plan to be rational forever. There needs to be more margin of safety. There needs to be more flexibility built into the plan than these assumptions around perfect withdrawals.
15:09Mindy Jensen:Oh, perfect withdrawals. Yeah, there is no such thing as perfect. Another sneaky FI mistake is treating health care like a generic expense. Oh, health care is going to be X. Health care isn't going to be X. Health care is going to change every single year. Scott, did your health care go up this year? Mine did. I think on average, 26 % health care costs increased. And that's just the premiums. That's not the actual going to the doctor and your co-pays and your prescriptions and all of the everything else. Health care needs to be a real thought in your mind as you are progressing down your FI journey.
15:47And I hate to be a party pooper on the fire movement kind of best practices and core assumptions here. But I think that the health care discussion is a very real threat to a significant portion of the fire community's baseline spending plans. I think that it implicitly relies on receiving low income tax credits for health care subsidies for decades, which I think is a bad political bet to rely on. It's not bad to take those subsidies. It's bad to rely on that as your foundational assumption that that's going to carry you through an early retirement. And then I think that a lot of people don't understand the basic reality that today, forget inflation, forget health care inflation.
16:26This is not an argument that health care inflation is going to outpace CPI. You can have that argument with somebody else. This is just a fact. If I was going to go and get a health care plan on the Obamacare exchange, the Affordable Care Act exchange right now for my family, I would pay almost double if I just changed my age in the input field to 60. That's not a inflation thing. That's a today's price for that same healthcare plan. And that I think is not factored into people's plans. It is not a generic expense. You cannot say that your spending is$40 ,000 a year or$100 ,000 a year. And healthcare is 17 ,000 of that unsubsidized and we'll stay there.
17:04It will go up, it will go up to 35 or perhaps$40 ,000 for a household like mine in Colorado by the time I retire without assuming any excess healthcare inflation. So that's a real subtle mistake that's made in the fire community. And you must, I think, internalize that or understand how to model those out if you want a safe or realistic plan for your family. Absolutely. All right. Next up, we have blind faith in the 4 % rule without spending certainty. There's a lot of debate. I think there's like levels of like understanding of the 4 % rule in the finance world, right? The first level is, I heard somebody say that's an answer to like how much you need to retire early.
17:41The second is, wait a second, the 4 % rule is not 100 % secure. It does not survive all the scenarios in history. And in fact, 4 % of scenarios, it ran out of money, which is the point. The point of the 4 % rule is here's a scenario that resulted in not running out of money over any 30-year period. The next level is, wait a second, early retirement is longer than 30 years. I should probably think about that in the context of the 4 % rule, which was designed for a 30-year portfolio. So the next level beyond that, now we're starting to get into more expert territory is, oh, right, the 4 % rule does have these drawbacks, and it also doesn't account for the flexibility that is in practice common in many FIRE scenarios, like the ability to earn some kind of part-time income, the ability to reduce spending targets, and those types of things.
18:25But I think there's a level beyond that level of understanding that is still eluding the FIRE community at large and needs to be addressed. The risk in the 4 % rule is not around investment portfolios, which is a known variable if you're relying on the 4 % rule. The risk is around spending. It assumes that your spending is going to be constant relative to inflation, and it won't be, at least in the context of healthcare, for an early retiree. That changes once you get past traditional age. Spending does begin to drop over time after a traditional retirement age. The risk is, in many cases, in some aspects of your spending, you will see periodic boosts or declines depending on where you are in life.
19:07Are you sending little kids to daycare? Are they going to public school? Are they going to college? What's your healthcare costs going to look like? That is something you have to lock in. You need to know your spending if you're going to use the 4 % rule. And you need to be confident not only that you are able to project it for your family, but that it's going to not be very volatile. Volatile spending also kills the 4 % rule. Those are the real risks, the real subtle risks that can blow up a FI journey and make a mistake in your plan. And that is what I want to, again, I'm a big proponent of financial independence and FIRE.
19:37Believe it can be achieved. These are not killers. These are things, mistakes that people make that can have real life consequences over time. There's a certain set of challenges that come after the financial ones are mostly solved. Questions about what comes next, how to think about the life you're building around your wealth, not just the wealth itself. Most people find that they don't have anyone to talk to about that part. James Keefe spent 20 years in pharmaceuticals building toward that stage. When he found Long Angle's community, something specific resonated. Here's what he said. It's a community of primarily first-generation wealth builders.
20:07We all feel like we've gone through some sort of rite of passage. You'll end up trust a little sooner with that. It's clearly a group of people that also care about you as a person. Long Angle is a vetted community of 8 ,000 plus entrepreneurs, executives, and investors, mostly self-made, all navigating the same complexity on both sides of the financial equation. Membership is free for those who qualify. Apply at longangle.com slash money. That's longangle.com slash money. You know that feeling you get when checking your finances means logging into five different apps? That's why I use Monarch.
20:38Setup takes about 10 minutes. You can link your accounts and everything you own and owe lands in one clean dashboard. Banking, cards, investments, even keeping track of recurring charges. After that, you can stay on top of your money in just minutes, not hours per month. Monarch saves you time and actually helps you use it wisely. Use the code pockets at monarch.com to get your first year of Monarch core half off at just$50. That's 50 % off your first year at monarch.com with the code pockets.
Read the full transcript
21:08Mindy Jensen:I like the way that this is worded, Scott. Blind faith in the 4 % rule. We in the Phi community call this the 4 % rule, and that's where we stop, but we've abbreviated it. It isn't the 4 % rule. It's the 4 % rule of thumb. And rule of thumb means something very different than rule does. And I think that there are a lot of people who have heard it. They've read the article. They see that this works and they hear 4 % rule. Stop thinking that rule is where that phrase ends. It's the 4 % rule of thumb. Yeah, Mindy, I can't help myself. So I want to go into one more level of depth on this because I'm such a nerd on this in this world.
21:49Remember that healthcare example I used, right, that healthcare cost surging from 17 ,000 unsubsidized to 35 or 40 ,000 unsubsidized by the end of an early retirement from age 35 to 60, for example, that's a real risk to somebody in the lean fire or traditional fire space in terms of the percentage of their overall spending. It's incompatible with a 4 % withdrawal sequence. However, that risk in many cases, for example, with a family of$100 ,000 in household spending would be completely offset if they have a house right now with 20 years left in the mortgage because the mortgage won't rise with inflation and then it will roll off entirely right when those healthcare premium, the risk of spanking healthcare premiums rises the most, right?
22:31And so the 4 % rule in that particular case, a fairly normal common scenario, a house that's firing in their 30s or 40s and has a house with 15, 20 years left in the mortgage, those two things completely offset. I don't like the 4 % rule accidentally being right in my plan. And that is a problem, right? If that family does not have a house as a renter instead, now that all of a sudden that risk is there, you have to have, actually have those offsets, those flexibility dynamics, or those other income streams, or the inheritance, or the social security coming in at some point to offset those risks and the 4 % rules spending categories in order for it to apply.
23:08And I think that's poorly understood by a lot of folks and accidentally correct in many cases. And that's fine for a lot of those folks, but I really worry about lean fire folks who do not internalize these concepts.
23:17Mindy Jensen:That is a really great point. I worry about lean fire folks. Scott, next up is underestimating identity and purpose risk. And just in a nutshell, this is, what are you retiring to? You're not retiring from your awful boss. And if that's all you're doing, then that's not the right choice. You want to be retiring to something because you don't wanna get to early retirement, quit your job and then sit around and be like, OK, now what? Start understanding what it is you want to be doing after you no longer have this 40 hour or more obligation on your time. Number five, unintentionally contributing to the wrong accounts.
23:59Mindy Jensen:And Scott, this is the middle class trap that we talk about or the LaFoff. Well, we'll give a shout out to our friend Brad Barrett. Brad Barrett from ChooseFI has given us some strong feedback that he does not like the term middle class trap. and many people agree with him. This is fair. So we like the term middle-class trap, but we have conceded that we will stop using the middle-class trap quite as frequently. And instead, we have come up with the LEFOFT, the Liquidity First Optionality Framework, the LEFOFT. Here's the issue, right? When we're talking about optimal early retirement approaches, the answer to where should my money be is we're generally aligning as a community to it.
24:38It should be in multiple places. There should be a balance. There should be some in our Roth. There should be some in our pre-tax 401k or equivalents that are for retirement accounts. And there should be some in after-tax brokerage. And the reasons for this have to do with tax brackets. So there's a 0 % long-term capital gains and qualified dividends tax bracket. That's a really powerful tool that we don't want to waste by having everything, for example, in a 401k. We want to have some of that in our taxable brokerage. Obviously, if it is good to have some things in a taxable brokerage, it's even better to have that same money in a Roth in many cases from a pure tax optimization strategy.
25:17So first, there's an argument to me that balance should be a goal and not concentration in a single one of these buckets or lack of attention to all of them. The second that I think is a very powerful argument and is more qualitative, right? This is something that's a little harder to prove mathematically is there's a real power in having after-tax liquidity that gives you optionality in your 20s 30s 40s and 50s long before you actually begin withdrawing from your portfolio a household that spends 100 grand a year and has two working individuals making maybe 175 to 200 000 in household income they're going to feel trapped if they've got even 750 000 or a million dollars in net worth, but it's all in their home equity and 401k.
25:58If two or three hundred thousand dollars of that wealth is actually in an after-tax brokerage account that could be harvested today, that's going to create optionality for one spouse to stay home, to start a business, to invest in a rental property, to house hack, whatever those look like. And those are real investment opportunities that have the power to provide optionality or actually get you what you want from your financial position and or may perform as well or even better than passively managed index funds in a stock market in your 401k. This also doesn't account for the fact that many 401k plans have expensive funds with high fees that offset the advantage of being in that 401k over long periods of time to some degree.
26:39So anyways, I think that the argument here is that if you're unintentionally optimizing for current tax benefits, you could be costing yourself both in real terms, it may be truly tax inefficient to just max out your 401k blindly across several decades. And you're also going to be missing the subtler and more arguable benefit that we believe there is to having some after-tax liquidity.
27:03Mindy Jensen:That kind of rolls into the next one, ignoring tax liabilities, both now and in the future. You run the risk of setting yourself up for very real, large RMDs down the line if you are contributing to your 401k, constantly contributing to your 401k. And then all of a sudden you find yourself with a larger than intended pile of investments, A, because you're not spending as much or B, you just had a really great growth segment of the stock market. And all of a sudden you're in these tax brackets that you have no control over because RMDs start when they start And you can't say, oh, I'm not ready to sell my stocks.
27:48Mindy Jensen:The government says tough. I think there's smart people who will say the RMD worry is overblown. And I think that I totally agree with them for most people. And I disagree with them if you're listening to this podcast. The BiggerPocketsMoney audience is particularly high income earning and particularly wealthy. And they're particularly concentrated in their 401k. And so for this particular audience, someone who's got several hundred thousand or approaching a million in their 30s, for example, in a 401k or tax deferred account, you are at real risk of this dynamic if you just continue maxing it for the next several decades.
28:21And there could be a real consequence there. And I will also say that this problem gets harder as time passes because let's, you know, the typical career, you earn more and more and more, right? Like that's a typical career progression as your career progresses, right? Your earnings go up. That puts you in a higher and higher income tax bracket, which makes the math for contributing to a 401k that much more compelling in the present. And so my argument comes back to these tax liabilities, you know, thinking about that really hard early in your career and saying, hmm, I'm going to max my 401k for most of my career.
28:51But at some point, I'm going to have to choose when and where I'm going to do that. And it might make sense to not max my 401k in the very early part of the career, if I agree with this balance dynamic and max it out in the years when I'm in the higher relative earning tax brackets. So those tax liabilities are fundamentally bets and assumptions that you have to make. And I think that I at least am arrogant. And I think many BiggerPocketsMoney listeners may share this arrogance where they think they're going to win. They think their career is going to go nicely and result in them earning more and more income over time.
29:20Just something to be said to actually bet on what you think is the realistic outcome for your situation.
29:25Mindy Jensen:Yes. And I think that there's a lot of blind faith, to use that phrase from a moment ago, in maxing out your 401k. We're definitely not saying don't put any money into your 401k. We're saying, make sure you understand the tax liabilities now, the tax benefits now versus the tax benefits in the future. And it could be just a back and forth. I max out the match, and then I put in the after-tax accounts this year. And next year, I max out the 401k and put less into the after-tax accounts. But regardless, it's because you're thinking about your strategies. you're not just doing something that you heard somebody say one time.
30:06That's right. I think that a great exercise to illustrate this point is to say, I'm shooting for this two and a half million net worth number at some point in the future. That's the midpoint of what Bicker Pockets Money listeners say they need to achieve financial independence. What I don't want when I get there is for that to be$1.75 million in my 401k and$700 ,000 in my home equity and$50 ,000 in my emergency reserve, right? That's not a good situation. that is going to help us maximize our tax benefits. A better situation might look like having that wealth spread across a 401k, a TAFTA tax brokerage, and a Roth.
30:41There can be an argument about how big each of those pieces of the pie should be, but it should be more balanced and less concentrated, in my view, if we're going to make the optimal decisions in many common FI journey scenarios.
30:52Mindy Jensen:Yeah, I mean, your money is going into investments. It's just where the investments are held, the different tax obligations of each different kind of account. So this is where a conversation with a CFP could be greatly beneficial to you. Absolutely. All right, Scott, again, tagging off of those is diversification missteps. Investing only in one sector or one index or going into bonds too early because you heard that they're a good hedge or going into something that you know nothing about, like crypto. Make sure that you're not diversifying just for the sake of diversification. I think that what we're learning here is there's tons of different ways to perform factor investing in the market.
31:35There's an argument that's emerging, and I'm not sure if I'm convinced yet, that alternatives to the S &P 500 or a total market index fund, like a tilt towards value stocks or international growth and value and those types of things, could either outperform or perform differently or reduce volatility and draw down cycles over the index funds that are the most popular vehicle in the FIRE community. And I'm not sure I get by completely into that, even after talking with Paul Merriman. I think there's an argument for simplicity and a lot of people have done very well with those total stock market index funds.
32:08And I think there's more debate to be had there, more thought. In the context of retirement, though, and truly transitioning to FIRE, that is where there is a big gap between known best practices and actual behavior of the financial independence community. The financial independence community is so used to and has been rewarded for so long by investing in all equity portfolios, that they're not moving. They don't actually move, at least in large numbers, large percentages that we can measure in our polling to diversified portfolios that include bonds or risk parity style portfolios that include different assets that are not tightly correlated and perform differently in different cycles.
32:47And I think that's a misstep, right? There's a good bet, right? What's a good decision and what's a good outcome? and there's a bad bet and bad outcomes. And then there's sometimes bad bets with good outcomes in there. And I think the FIRE community and people listening to this should understand if they're being rewarded for a bad decision, that good result, bad decision, or if they're making a good decision and seeing that pay out for them. And I think that's a hard question you should ask yourself if you were truly at or near your FIRE number. Did you actually transition to a portfolio or does your strategy involve some kind of ongoing source of income that obviates the need for that diversification?
33:21Yeah.
33:22Mindy Jensen:And again, this goes back to thinking about what you're doing with your money, not just blindly following your same strategy over the course of your entire investing and growth career. OK, last one here is going to be not exercising your spending muscles during the financial independence journey. Mindy, do you know anything about this one? I have heard a little bit about this, something about being frugal with your nose to the grindstone and not enjoying your life at all ever, ever, ever, ever. Yeah, that can actually be a real hindrance to your FI journey, because if you're not having any fun at all, you could decide, you know what, I'm done.
33:58Mindy Jensen:I'm not going to do this anymore. Keeping the things that are enjoyable in your life are what make life worth living. So if you cut out everything enjoyable just so you can get to a point where you quit your job, you're not going to have very much fun. And what's the point of doing this if it's not to just enjoy the life that you are moving towards while you're on the path to that life? Another way of framing this mistake is people think that they need to grind for 15 years and needs to be misery. And then they're going to be free and life is going to turn as soon as they they leave. And that's not how it should go.
34:31The journey to financial independence should be a continuum that gradually increases your optionality and therefore, on average, your happiness, the ability for you to control your time and day across that continuum. And I think that's the right answer to the financial independence journey. And the wrong answer is I'm going to grind it out and be miserable for the next seven years. I'm going to finally finish the play. Now, in practice, that could be different, right? You know, you got your RSUs vesting at your company and they're going to come due in two years. Grind it out, finish the play. But, you know, in a situation that does not have these kind of golden handcuff types of scenarios, I think that there's a, hey, take a step back.
35:05Say no to the promotion. Take a job that is a little bit more flexible. Spend a little bit more on that journey if it delays your journey by one year, but make your life that much better. Those are all, I think, reasonable pullbacks from the extreme origins of the fire community, you know, a decade or two ago.
35:21Mindy Jensen:Yeah. Don't take that promotion. I love that idea, Scott. I was offered a promotion at a job and I didn't want to do the job that they were offering me. That wasn't something that I was interested in. That would have cost me more time with my family. Like the money wasn't worth the elevated time I was going to have to be at work. And for a promotion, I didn't even want in the first place. Carl had also turned down a promotion. He was offered to be a team lead. And he asked, well, what does that entail? Less coding. Well, I want to code. He was a computer programmer. All he wanted to do was code.
35:58Mindy Jensen:He didn't want to manage people. He didn't want to do these other things. He just wanted to code. So accepting a position that has reduced coding and more management was absolutely not what he wanted to do. It doesn't matter about the money. It matters about what it is you want to spend your time doing. So not all promotions are a great idea for you personally. Just know what you're getting yourself into before you get them into it. And I took every promotion that was offered my way until I became the CEO and did the exact opposite of all that. So with that, I think we've covered all of the mistakes in the financial independence journey here today.
36:31Mindy, what do you think? Is any of them surprising or any ones you think people are missing?
36:35Mindy Jensen:Nope, Scott. We covered every single mistake you could possibly make in this episode. However, if our listeners think that they have found another one, we would love to hear from you. You can email Mindy at BiggerPocketsMoney.com or Scott at BiggerPocketsMoney.com. Let us know what other mistakes you think people make on their financial independence journey. I'm looking for these mistakes right now. I'm having the time of my life, Mindy, these last few weeks, just like obsessing over like the next level of like modeling out early retirements and thinking about each type of spending, what's flexible, what's not, how portfolios interact with that, which income streams do.
37:10I'm shocked at what I'm finding and that I'm relieved at, oh, well, I'm finding this thing and it's a real risk and it's completely offset by this other thing. And so what I think is really the underlying observation across all of this is there's a real danger for some folks in portions of the FIRE community for missing some of the mistakes that we're talking about, especially in the subtler world, when the stakes begin to really matter about when you're leaving a job for a very long period of time. And there are also many, many offsets to those mistakes that form in practice. And so this is not a reason to panic, but it's a real reason to turn your brain on and do that next level of analysis across your financial planning journey, especially as you are seriously getting ready to pull the trigger and move into financial independence and stop wage-paying income that is likely your best option for generating income.
37:56Mindy Jensen:Yeah, and I think that people are following a path without veering. So we wanted to just introduce these mistakes. If you identify with any of these mistakes, start thinking about how you can change them. For free resources or to sign up for our newsletter, go to biggerpocketsmoney.com. You can also follow us on YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram at BiggerPocketsMoney. All right, Scott, should we get out of here? Let's do it. That wraps up this episode of the BiggerPocketsMoney podcast. He is Scott Trench. I am Mindy Jensen saying bye-bye, blueberry pie. The further you get along financially, the more you realize how rare it is to find people who are both at your level and asking the right questions.
38:33Dan and his son, Adam, noticed something unique about Long Angle. The people here all seem to be curious and interested in others. That's hard to find in people who are successful. I started for the financial angle, but the non-financial pieces, whether it's relationships, trips, family, wellness, that's brought me a lot of value. Long Angle is a vetted community of 8 ,000 or more entrepreneurs, executives, and investors who came for the financial conversations and stayed for everything else. Membership is free for those who qualify. Apply at longangle.com slash money. That's longangle.com slash money.
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From the publisher
What are the biggest mistakes people make on the road to financial independence? In this episode of the BiggerPockets Money Podcast, hosts Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench break down the 13 biggest FIRE mistakes that quietly delay or derail your progress toward early retirement. From starting too late and ignoring spending habits to misunderstanding the 4% rule and overlooking healthcare costs, these common financial independence mistakes can cost you years on your journey to FIRE.
You’ll learn how to avoid lifestyle creep, optimize your savings and investment strategy, reduce tax inefficiencies, and build a flexible financial independence plan that can adapt to real-world risks. Whether you’re just starting your FIRE journey or already investing for early retirement, this episode reveals the most co
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