How Dave Went from Broke, Living in Grandma’s Basement to Rental Millionaire

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15:48Brandon Turner:So I imagine this cost savings allowed you to start saving a lot of this money that you were making. And so what was the next step? What was the next deal?

15:57David Greene:I didn't buy my next deal until 2014. It took me four years to figure that out. And so that one, I did house hack. I was like, I got to get out of this basement. So I wound up buying a three unit one block away from my four unit. That was like a big appeal to me. I was self-managing both of these. And so I could walk from one property to the other. I love telling this story about finding this deal because I looked for quite a while to find deals. And eventually I walked into this place. It was marketed as a two unit. It was supposed to be one three bed and one four bed, super nice units. And at that price, I was like walking around this property.

16:41David Greene:I was like, okay, it's pretty good. And then I opened this door and there's a staircase and I walk up there and And there's an amazing, recently built, renovated, permitted one bedroom apartment. And I'm like, no wonder no one else is looking at this deal because they're just completely mismarketing it. And I wanted a house hack. And I was like, this one bedroom is like a perfect place for me. And so I just tell this story because people think on market deals you can't find. They're mislabeled. They're mismarketed. They're mispriced all the time. This was sort of an extreme example of that. But that's how I found that deal.

17:20David Greene:Wound up moving into that and house hacking there for over two years.

17:24Brandon Turner:That's almost exactly how I found my first house hack.

17:27David Greene:Seriously?

17:28Brandon Turner:I did not know that. Absolutely. It was a mislabeled property. A hidden unit? It wasn't hidden. It was there. But it was just listed as a single family home. And there was no mention of an ADU. And this was before the BiggerPockets house hacking craze. So no one called it house hacking yet. but I knew I wanted to live in a duplex, but I was at work. And this is when I worked at Walmart and I overheard a guy in the restroom just saying, man, I just can't seem to get my house sold. People, they come and they see it and they just don't want the extra unit. They just want a house.

18:07David Greene:You just like pop your head over the stall and you're like, I'll buy it. Look, I had some tact, okay?

18:11Brandon Turner:I waited outside of the bathroom door like a normal creeper. And as soon as he came out of the bathroom, I was like, hey, tell me about that house. And he told me all about it. He gave me his agent's phone number. I went to look at it. It was just listed as a single family home. She said the same thing. Nobody wants the second unit. And I was like, no, I want the second unit. And so I bought that house. And that was my house hack.

18:33David Greene:Oh, that's awesome. Wow. That's great. I love that we both had mislabeled. Honestly, it still happens. It's still a thing. It still absolutely happens. it's pretty rare for an entire unit to be missed, but opportunities for a lock off to create, you know, to create another unit. People mislabel bedroom counts. People mislabel square footage all the time. Like absolutely these things happen. So just throwing that out there that those things are possible. Okay. So you bought this house hack. What'd you pay for it? How'd you finance it? So prices in Denver had gone up a lot in just those couple of years, I guess four years between buying deals.

19:11David Greene:So I financed it with another partner. I actually was a minority partner in this as well because I didn't have enough capital to put in. So I split it with a partner and then paid, I think it was$720 for a three unit. This is again in a prime location in Denver though, like really good walking distance area.

19:32Brandon Turner:I assume you mean walking distance to like libraries and research facilities at all the things you were very interested in.

19:38David Greene:Yeah, museums and cultural experiences. No, there was a sandwich place called Snarf's down the road. I was very happy with it. There was a grocery store two blocks away, a dive bar with a couple of pool tables and darts. I was in heaven. Honestly, I look back on it. I think the two years, the most fun I've ever had was those two years house hacking in that house. I had a great time. And it was a great deal. I still own that place today. It's one of the best deals I've ever done for sure.

20:06Brandon Turner:So your second deal was a house hack. You were having the time of your life. When did BiggerPockets come into the picture?

20:12David Greene:Yeah, so that was 2014 when I bought that deal. And then towards the end of 2014, 2015, the tech company that I had started, it was profitable. It was doing okay, but decided to wind it down. It was just not taking off in the way that I wanted to, a whole other topic. But basically, I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do next. And I decided two things were really interesting to me. I really like data analytics. Shocking for everyone who listens to this podcast. I know. So I decided to go back to grad school and I wanted to stay in Denver. So I got into grad school there for data analytics.

20:50David Greene:But then I was realizing that I just loved real estate. I really enjoyed doing it. I found that I was going to open houses even when I had no money to buy anything. I would just go and look at them. You know, I had a friend who was a real estate agent. I would just go look at deals. I was just having fun. I really enjoyed it. And so I decided to see if the next job I could get was like both tech and real estate. That's what I was looking for. And I literally just Googled like tech companies, real estate, and went through a bunch of them and found this company called Bigger Pockets. I had never heard of it before.

21:26David Greene:And I was like, this is really interesting. This is kind of what I've been doing. What are these words like house hack? There are forums where all of these people who are doing what I'm trying to do are talking to each other. I was amazed. And so I looked at it and the office was one mile from where I was house. It was just like complete luck. And I looked and reached out. There were no jobs for me. And so I waited. I think it was nine months from the first time I reached out and they put up a job that I was qualified for and I applied. And thankfully, I got interviewed first by Scott Trench, then by Josh Dorkin, then by Brandon Turner, then by all three of them together sitting on a couch, all three of them and then me sitting on the other side.

22:13David Greene:But luckily, I got the job. And that is when I think I started seeing myself as a real estate investor. Like that, you know, joining BiggerPockets sort of changed my whole trajectory from wanting to be in tech, which I still did. Like I still like working at tech companies. But that's when I was like, oh, man, I should grow a portfolio, take this thing a little bit seriously, start setting goals, get a little bit more sophisticated about it. And that really sort of changed my trajectory as an investor forever.

22:41Brandon Turner:So can you give us maybe some specifics about how BiggerPockets helped you become maybe a more structured or a more intentional investor?

22:51David Greene:I was still investing in Denver at that time. I started to see all the equity that I had saved up in these first two properties that I was really proud of. Like I was like, oh my God, I've got a couple hundred grand between these two deals, even being, you know, a partial owner of these, like that's my nest egg, that's my life savings. And I think the big, you know, honestly, the big thing was like, oh my God, I should have reinvested that years ago into different deals. I sort of like realized that I had been going much slower than I needed to. And then, you know, sort of having that realization, learning about doing refis effectively, using equity for one deal to build into others.

23:29David Greene:From 2016 to 2020, it allowed me to just do way more deals in Denver over the course of those couple of years.

23:36Brandon Turner:Can you give us an example of how a deal you did now that you were a more experienced investor with a little more strategy was different than maybe one of those first two deals?

23:47David Greene:I'll just give you an example of the third deal I did, which is I realized that I could take money out of one of my first two deals. I think it was the second one I did a refi on and wound up doing my one and only off-market deal. I think I've told you this story. But I was just learning about off-market deal finding. I was learning about buying in the path of progress. I was learning about how real estate investors research areas to buy. This is obviously my thing. I had just gotten a degree in data analytics. I'm good at this stuff. And I was like, I'm going to find the best block to buy in Denver and go out and find an off-market deal.

24:28David Greene:And that's exactly what I did. And I would have never done that years ago. You know, like I was just buying on-market retail prices. Things were easier to buy back then. And then I was like, no, I'm going to like really get good at this and figure out exactly what corner, what pockets to buy and where I'm finding the deepest value and just like really getting good at the analytical side of things. And so that one deal I probably bought for 70, 80 grand below comps because I bought it off market and I knew all these things were coming to the area and there's all this infrastructure spending. And so like I just started thinking about it in a really different way and was able to finance it without having to wait several more years to build up for my next deal.

25:12Brandon Turner:What were some of the characteristics or things that you were looking for in the neighborhood to let you know that this is where you needed to buy?

25:19David Greene:Denver at this time was just growing like crazy. And the city was struggling to keep up with infrastructure, like cities, roads, railroads. And so they announced this light rail. They were storing the major train station in downtown and it would connect to the airport, which if you've ever been to Denver Airport, is in the middle of nowhere. And so you needed a train to get there.

25:42Brandon Turner:It's fair.

25:43David Greene:And so I was like, I'm going to figure out where the stations are. And I actually went to city planning meetings myself to try and figure out they were coming up with different routes that they were thinking about doing. But there was like two neighborhoods that had common stations in them. Like either way that they did it, there was going to be a station in this neighborhood. Then they announced that they were going to tear down this whole street and build a park alongside it. And I was like, OK, this is the place I got to be. They're putting a ton of money in here. Denver, people love to bike.

26:15David Greene:They love to walk. So it was like a bike lane going in there. And I was like, I got to buy this. And literally, the friend you were joking about before, well, my friend who is a great real estate agent, and I went and we literally like marked off on streets like where they were going to be doing eminent domain, which were the houses that were going to be closest to this park. And we figured it out. And I called, I'm one for one on cold calling on off-market deals. I called one guy. You're batting a thousand on cold calling? And then I quit. I've never done it again. I was like, I did this once and I got this deal off market and then never did it again.

26:54David Greene:It was honestly one of my first days at BiggerPockets. I was like, I got to do, I was like so stoked about all this stuff I was reading. I remember like walking into the hallway and being scared.

27:02Dave:Like Josh was going to be like, why are you not at your desk?

27:05David Greene:And I just called this guy. He picked up and I was like, how about, I think I bought it for like 4.30. I was like, how about 4.30? He was like, okay. I was like, really? And I bought it. It was great. House hacked that too.

27:18Brandon Turner:So you paid$430 ,000, you moved into it. What did you rent the units for?

27:22David Greene:So that actually became my primary residence. I still own it as rental today, but that became a primary residence because I figured out that I could move out of the apartment I was living in, rent that out for about$1 ,500, which is great. That was like gonna cover basically my mortgage on this new property. And also at that point, just life stuff. My wife and I, now wife and I, I wanted to move in together. And I was like really stoked about this house. She was less stoked about this house. But I was proud to have a place that I owned for us to move into.

27:57Brandon Turner:And you still own the property today. Were you correct in terms of the park and the infrastructure that was coming? Oh, crushed it.

28:05David Greene:Yeah. You know, I bought it for$430. It's probably worth$800 now. Nice.

28:10Brandon Turner:Nice.

28:10David Greene:And I didn't even renovate it. That was not even a Burr deal. I just, I bought that straight up from a flipper.

28:16Brandon Turner:Before we move on to the rest of your journey, is there some sort of tips or strategy or resources you could give people who want to do similar market research to determine where the path of progress is or what may be coming?

28:28David Greene:People always ask me this because you can get really analytical about it, but I honestly think the best thing to do once you've picked a market is go analog, go old school, go to, I think the best things that I still look at Every market I invest in, I subscribe to the local business journal or if there's an economic development area. See where businesses are moving and also just understand where you would want to live. People pay for walkability. People pay for convenience. They pay for access to jobs. These are the kinds of things that you can learn by talking to your tenants, talking to your agent, talking to local people.

29:05David Greene:I honestly still think that is better than any analytical thing that you can do. That's how I learned about it is I was just like, hey, they announced they're building a train. I'm gonna figure out where the train stops are gonna be. Like it wasn't online. I had to literally go and look at the renderings that they were building. And I like wrote down the addresses and the cross streets and then just figured it out from there.

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32:43Brandon Turner:All right, I think this story's been super interesting, and I'm learning a lot about you that I didn't know, so I hope our audience is also learning a lot about you that they didn't know. But one thing I do know about you is that you just up and moved to Europe out of the blue is what it seemed like to me. And so when did that happen? Why did it happen? And how did it change or shape you as an investor?

33:07David Greene:Yeah, so it happened in 2020. And I'll say that in 2016, when I started getting serious about investing and when my wife and I moved in together, we actually made a goal. We had some financial goals, but one of our goals was to move abroad. It was always my dream. I love to travel. It's probably my greatest passion. Even more than sandwiches, it is my greatest passion. And so I really wanted to do that. And I had no idea how it was going to happen. And then in 2019, my wife's job, they were like, you're getting transferred to Amsterdam. And we were kind of like, cool, this is it. We've been waiting for a chance to do this.

33:48David Greene:and it fell into our lap. And I was pretty nervous, but Scott Trench, who was the CEO at BiggerPockets at a time, let me go. And it was cool, but I was self-managing at least 10 units at that point. And so I really had to figure out how to become a more sophisticated investor. At first, I sort of did a hybrid strategy where I had a friend who was kind of a maintenance guy who would pick up the phone if there were emergencies, but I was still doing the leasing. And then over time, I just started to realize that I should just hire a full-time property manager. And then I sort of had this realization then.

34:27David Greene:I was like, now the whole country is open to me. All kinds of investing are open to me. It was sort of forced into this way of thinking, you know, I can't be hands-on no matter what. There's no way from Amsterdam. It was an 18-hour door-to-door flight back to Denver. You know, like, how was I going to do this? And I just started really learning about everything else. I was learning about commercial real estate, syndications, passive investing opportunities like private money funds. And I also started thinking, I'll start to invest in other markets. Now, because of COVID, I actually wound up not buying any active deals for like three years, I think until 2023.

35:09David Greene:But I actually think the experience made me a much better investor. I just learned all of these different skills that I did not have when I left Denver. And that's really opened me up to having a much more diversified and I think sophisticated portfolio now, even though I'm back in the United States.

35:28Brandon Turner:I think out-of-state investors have a strategic advantage over backyard investors. And I'm a backyard investor. And what I mean by that is out-of-state investors are forced to build an automated business that operates without them. They don't have the luxury of being in the backyard. And so they have to build systems. They have to have tools. They have to have people to do things for them in order for their business to function. And I think that gives them an advantage because at some point, all of us decide, hey, maybe I don't want to be as hands on. And most of us, like myself, who invest in our backyard, I now have to go build those things that somebody who invests out of state just inherently structured their business to be able to operate.

36:10Brandon Turner:And so I totally can see how that would just make you an all around better investor.

36:15David Greene:There's trade offs. There's like total pros and cons. But given where I am in my investing career, I've been doing this now 16 years and I've fortunately, you know, built up a lot of equity and I'm like transitioning from what like Chad Carson would call from the growth stage to the harvesting stage. And I am grateful for those skills now. Now that I'm in this sort of era where I don't need to buy a lot of deals, I can buy deals, but I'm more thinking about sort of an endgame and how to reduce risk and build just a rock solid portfolio that is highly automated. The skills I learned when I moved to Europe and was forced to offload a lot of this stuff are coming in handy right now.

36:59David Greene:I'll say that.

37:00Brandon Turner:With that being said, what does investing now look like for you? And what is the plan, the end game, as you say?

37:07David Greene:So I basically, my overall portfolio, I think of it in three, in thirds. So one third, yasp for people who are hearing this, but I invest in the stock market. So I do actually diversify, unlike a lot of real estate creators. I put about a third of my net worth into the stock market. I have about one third of my wealth into what I would call actively managed properties. I'm not self-managing, but they're things I own directly. They're not like funds or syndications. And then I have about a third in funds and syndications, which is split between multifamily syndications. And I actually have put quite a lot of my net worth into lending funds recently, private credit.

37:49David Greene:It's a great way to make cash if anyone is interested. So that's what it looks like right now. And I've started, you know, buying actively again, since I've been back in the United States in the Midwest. And I think I've told you this, but my goal in the short term is to keep buying those deals, but getting better at value at investing. It's been a weakness of mine for 15 years. You know, I did do BRRRS in Denver while I was living there, but never structural. Like I've added units, I've added some bedrooms. I've done some lock offs, that kind of stuff, but never the kind of stuff you do or what James does.

38:26David Greene:And I don't really want to get there, but I just want to get better at construction. I think that, you know, in 16 years, I think I've learned that that is the one way to make money in real estate that doesn't really change with market conditions. You can always make money if you're a good value add investor. That's very true. And I want to get good at that. And so that's why I've been a part of three flips. I've kind of done two in the last year. Not because I want to be a flipper. That is not really my goal. But it has taught me so much about construction. And I want to do it to just be able to take on bigger burr projects is kind of what I'm moving towards.

39:00David Greene:But I'm still doing, I really like passive investing. So I'm going to keep doing that as well.

39:05Brandon Turner:All right, Dave. I was thinking about letting you off the hook, but I think I changed my mind. I got a couple of good ones for you.

39:12David Greene:Okay. Well, I don't even know what you're talking about. Let's go.

39:16Brandon Turner:All right. First one, we'll start off easy. What's something that people may be surprised to learn about how you actually like to spend your free time?

39:26David Greene:Okay. I guess, I don't know if this is surprising or not, but I am a exercise freak. I'm like one of those people who has to go to the gym or do something active every day, or I actually go crazy and lose my mind. So I definitely do that every single day.

39:42Brandon Turner:Okay. Makes sense. Cause you said you needed a gym when you came to visit.

39:45David Greene:I mean, I sit in front of a computer all day. So if I don't, you know, the rest of my day, usually either doing real estate stuff or working for bigger pockets. So if I don't do something physically active, I become a psychopath.

39:57Brandon Turner:Next question. Are you one of those morning routine guys? Like, do you have a morning routine every morning that you follow and you don't?

40:05David Greene:You can't function? Absolutely not. I actually made a whole reel making fun of this trend because I think it's so silly. People are like, oh, if you don't get up at 5 in the morning, you can't be successful. like honestly i do wake up early i wake up at like 5 30 not because i want to if i could sleep till 9 a.m i would i just naturally wake up that early no i'm not one of those people who is like super regimented in like the time i do stuff like i work a lot but i'm pretty loosey-goosey on when i

40:37Brandon Turner:when i do different things are you do you have a morning routine no no i my day is different every day i don't yeah the only morning routine thing i have is i take my daughter to school every morning

40:50David Greene:that's like a nice one it's not i wake up every morning and do an ice bath then i do 15 minutes of journaling about why i'm the best guy in the world about why ice baths are awesome then i eat 150 grams of protein and nothing else not a single carb since 2022 then i intermittent

41:12Brandon Turner:and fast until 6 p.m. and eat two crackers.

41:16David Greene:No, I actually like to enjoy my life. That's part of why I invest in real estate is to not have to live some completely stoic lifestyle. So no, not me.

41:25Brandon Turner:All right, now we're going to get a little spicy. Tell us your wildest tenant story as a landlord.

41:33David Greene:Oh, I actually have a fun one. So I was house hacking, I told you guys, in this three unit. I had a really good relationship with these people living downstairs who lived there for four or five years in the main unit. We got along really well. And then when they moved out, they just straight up didn't clean the apartment. And so I paid a professional cleaner to go in and clean it out. And they got really mad about it that I deducted it from their deposit. And it's truly one of the two or three times I've ever gotten a disagreement with a tenant. I was personally upset with this. We hung out. We were friendly with each other.

42:08David Greene:And we had this like blow up fight. And I was like really upset about it for like a while. And I sort of like forgot about it. And then I was living in Amsterdam and Jane and I had a party. We invited over a bunch of our friends. Some of them are American. And my buddy, Joe, was like, I'm going to bring some friends of mine. Like, can they come? And I was like, yeah, of course. And in walks my tenant in Amsterdam across the world. This was eight years later, across the world, walks in and she was like, hey, Joe told me you were going to be here. And I just wanted to apologize. I was really immature about that.

42:47David Greene:Can we be friends? I was like, yeah, we can be friends. And we hung out. We had this cocktail party. We stayed up and drank and reminisced. And we're now friendly again. So it came full circle. That's hilarious.

42:59Brandon Turner:Your life seems to be just a smattering of randomly unusual circumstances.

43:06David Greene:I have plenty of awful situations, but I'm going to now answer that with a positive story because that was a good one.

43:13Brandon Turner:All right. Have you ever been recognized for being on the show in some sort of weird or unusual place or doing something you wish somebody hadn't recognized you?

43:23David Greene:Yes, a lot. More and more recently. I think I got to tell the one you were there for, which was so funny. So before BP COD, Henry, myself, Henry's wife, Jessica, and a friend of mine, Andrew, were going out. Henry suggested the steakhouse. We booked it on open table, right? Like no special connections, just like went out on open table. We get there and they seat us at a table for four. And it's this beautiful table looking out over the strip. It was a nice place. It was a nice restaurant.

43:54Brandon Turner:It was a really great view.

43:55David Greene:It was a great view. And so we're sitting down and the host or server says to us, you know, you guys must be pretty important to be able to get this table. And completely jokingly, like, no, I was just joking around. I was like, what? You don't know who I am? And he goes, actually, I do know who you are. You're the host of the pockets. And I was like, well, now I look like such an asshole. You look like a giant douchebag. I did look like a huge asshole. I just I'm not used to actually getting recognized but it was so funny at the moment

44:30Brandon Turner:hilarious it caught us all off guard because it was it was clearly the best table in the house and he brought it up on his own he was like oh you guys must be special and it was like don't you know who I am yeah yeah bro I do you're yeah you're a giant jerk yeah Oh, classic.

44:50David Greene:I'm still embarrassed thinking about that. But yes, that happened.

44:55Brandon Turner:All right. Have you ever been around or seen somebody that you were starstruck by?

45:00David Greene:Oh, my God. Yes. Okay. I grew up in the suburbs of New York and had an internship when I was in high school. I was filing cabinets and I'd go to New York City for it. And I got in the elevator one time by myself and in walks Liv Tyler. And I'm like, you know, this is probably 2001 or two. You know, this is she was just in Lord of the Rings, Armageddon stage, you know. Can I tell you Armageddon secretly one of my favorite movies? It's everyone's favorite movie. It's the best movie. I've seen it at least 25 times. It's so good. so I'm like I guess I was probably like 15 or 16 years old and she walks in she's very tall she's taller than I am and she's just like comes in and is like super nice to me she's like hey how's it going and I did not say a single word the entire time we went for like the 40th floor to the first floor probably a full minute I just stared at her probably drooling out of my mouth and then she was just like okay bye i haven't thought about that it's so long but yes first of all you nailed it congratulations yeah i really nailed my chance with live tyler too because i'm sure in 16 i had a chance uh or now ever had a chance with live tyler but yeah that's hilarious that was pretty cool.

46:35Brandon Turner:All right. Well, that's hilarious and a great way to end the show. Thank you for sharing your story with us, your investor story, but also thank you for getting a little vulnerable with us both in the story and then answering these random questions at the end. It's been a good time. And I think the audience enjoys learning about our journeys, but also you've got a lot of lessons in your journey and I appreciate working beside you and I love how you treat investing. And I hope other people learn from this and can treat investing very similarly.

47:04David Greene:Well, thank you. I hope what people have learned is although I talk a lot about math and people think I'm smart, I'm just a normal idiot. And if I can do this, any of you can do it as well.

47:13Brandon Turner:That should be the takeaway. If Dave can do this, anyone else could do this too. All right, folks, thank you so much for listening to this episode of the BiggerPockets podcast. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode.

47:26Dave:Do you ever notice how every passive investment somehow turns into a very active lifestyle? Active spreadsheets, active phone calls, active stress. Here's a better question. What if you could buy brand new construction homes, 10 % below market value in the best markets across the country without making real estate your second job? That's exactly what Rent to Retirement does. They're a full service turnkey investment company handling everything for you. In some cases, investors get 50 % to 75 % of their down payment back at closing, plus interest rates as low as 3.75%. They've partnered with BiggerPockets for over a decade, helping thousands invest smarter.

48:04Dave:If you want to do the same, visit biggerpockets.com slash retirement to learn more. Attention, passive real estate investors. Make sure you have the Passive Pocket Summit on your calendar. Better yet, plan on attending it in Denver, Colorado from April 30th to May 2nd. This conference is built exclusively for the LP or limited partner. It's a great place to network and talk current deals and current strategies for accredited investors investing in real estate deals right now. Go to PassivePockets.com forward slash summit for all the details and use a coupon code podcast to save you$50. Hope to see you in Denver.