$0 to $100M ARR in 3 months: The AI plan to run every company - Ben Cera [CloudKitchens & Polsia]

0:00Click a button, get a company. Pulsia is an AI that builds and runs companies autonomously. Stop thinking about what people want. Build something for yourself. Make it as weird as you want. AI controls the whole company. Make it fully autonomous. Doesn't ask questions, just act. I'm an AI and I'm raising money on behalf of Pulsia. And here's a live dashboard with like the graph, right? Instead of being an engineer, you'll be an orchestrator of engineering agents. Today on Billions, I'm sitting down with someone who's carry real like two completely different bets on the future. and both turned out to be right.

0:32First bet, food delivery was going to be infrastructure, not logistic. It joined Cloud Kitchens as co-founder to Travis Kalanick and spent four years building the global operating system for ghost kitchens across dozens of markets. Second bet, the biggest bottleneck in building a company isn't capital or talent, it's the operating layer. The planning, the execution, the iteration, and AI can replace all of it. Today, he runs Polsia, an autonomous system that runs companies 24-7 without human intervention. His goal is to reach$100 million in annual recurring revenue in just three months, and I want to figure out how.

1:11Ben, thanks a lot for being here. Hi, Guillaume. How are you? I'm super excited to talk about everything you've achieved. The first question I have is, you were basically the co-founder of Travis Kalanick at Cloud Kitchens. And most people know like Travis from Uber and everything that happened over there. So what did you see in him, especially with that project that made you want to join the adventure? Yeah, I mean, first of all, I wasn't co-founder of like the whole venture. I co-founded a business division under Travis. I joined like I was one of the first employees he hired after he joined Cloud Kitchens and sort of bought the initial company.

1:56that was built a couple years before that. But I was so lucky that I had made a great network and I was able to join Cloud Kitchens right when he joined that company and became CEO. And yeah, it's been, I mean, it was like, I think it had been the best five years of my life. I would say now is the best year of my life, actually. But I think that I needed to have those five best years of my life to be able to build what I'm building right now. I think there was a lot of controversy around Travis when he started Cloud Kitchens, meaning at the end of him running Uber. I was always such a fan, right?

2:44Because obviously, I think that obviously a lot of things happened that I just saw from the outside. I'm not going to comment on, but being an entrepreneur myself, I know how difficult it is to build anything and to even get to product market fit and then and then and then to also scale product market fit and then to scale it and then to build new business divisions like you know Uber Eats and then like and then self-driving cars which you know if he was still out of the realm probably like Uber would be a trillion dollar company at this point um and so I was used to such a big fan and you know honestly starting to work with him in 2018 i was amazed at the fact that you know he's an engineer so everything is very logical and it's very principled and i'm an engineer too so it was like a you know a breath of fresh air to just have a boss that's just like there's there's no ambiguity there's no you know it's like it's all you know data and principles and and he empowered me so much like i remember the first the first meeting I had with him uh so yeah I heard me as a product sort of like a senior park manager right and at first meeting I was like okay cool so what should I do and he was like I don't know I arrived a month ago you tell me and he was like it was like I want you to like essentially like talk to everyone in the company figure out like every customer problems everything we could build and build like a whole product roadmap of every single pillars of the products we could build and then you tell me which ones you would like to work on.

4:19And I loved that because I was like, it's not like he's the boss, it's like he empowers people. He hires great people and then he empowers them to just be autonomous, which is what I'm doing at Pulsia with AI. And what do you think was the number one thing you've learned from working with Travis during all these years and the things that you want to take away for maybe like building the next project you're on right now? I mean, I think that like, there's a few episodes of me building with Travis that resonated a lot as I was building Pulsia. And I would say two different phases, right? I think the first phase was, I remember clearly, because essentially at Cloud Kitchens, I built a business called Future Foods, which is a service that helps restaurants with their digital marketing.

5:10what we do is we create we have a portfolio of virtual brands, sort of like online food brands and then we license them to restaurants and take on the whole operational marketing flow of onboarding them on the platforms, marketing them figuring out pricing etc. so that the restaurant can just cook great food and utilize their kitchen better and make extra revenue and so very early on I started building that initially for kitchen customers so customers in all that kitchens and then i told travis hey travis dude there's like millions of restaurants in the world they could all use that service so today we focus obviously on our kitchens customers because they're like our most beloved customers because but at the same time it could be a huge business and i remember him telling me like dude trust me because i was like can i hire a few people can i hire a salesperson and i was like no trust me you don't want to scale something that doesn't work trust me you don't want so go so essentially what you're going to do is you're going to hire anyone you are good you're the salesperson you go sign up 10 restaurants like i like the idea but like you go sign up 10 restaurants and you prove to me that it works and so i did so myself i started calling how much of restaurants or like i i called also restaurants that like at a kitchen in in our dark kitchens and said well you have a second restaurant.

6:34What about this one? We could do it there, right? So just hustled my way. And a week later, I came back to service and said, okay, I have 10 restaurants. And he was like, okay, cool, you can hire a salesperson. And so I think that was like the first thing. Essentially, the moral of the story is do not like be patient and product market fit is actually some, you don't want to scale something that doesn't have real product market fit. And so don't try to just grow something that doesn't work because it's a waste of time, it's a waste of money, it's a waste of sort of like everything. Wait until you really understand that you're adding value to the customer and that you understand your customer before scaling.

7:14So that's the one thing I took off. And that's why I built Pulsia alone for a long time. And I was alone for a long time. And I was like, why would I add someone? Like, I don't have product market fit yet. So why would I waste? Yes, I raised a little pre-seed that I almost didn't spend any of it. But I was like, yeah, but it's not because I have capital that I should spend it. I should reserve that capital. And so that I can use it when I have rock market fit and I need to put fuel on the fire, which by the way, I did recently where like, you know, because I was like, you know, I didn't optimize all the costs.

7:47And I was like, you know, when things start scaling, you're like, oh shit, I need to really look at margins because I'm spending a lot of money on Entropic. So I think that was the first good learning. I think the second learning was around scale. And that's something that is really top of mind right now as I believe the product is not perfect, but there's product market fit, meaning it really answers a pain point that a lot of people have. And it gives hope to a lot of people that have great ideas that want to be entrepreneurs, but maybe are scared. Maybe they don't have like, maybe they think they're not worthy or they're not good enough or maybe not this enough or that enough, right?

8:25Which is like a lot of the blockers of usually people, of people trying to start companies. And Pulsia is a little bit that hope of like, you know, they tried the onboarding and in three minutes you have an AI who does, he creates a scaffolding in three minutes, researching you, researching the idea, doing a market research report, you know, looking at competitors, pricing, creating a mission document that's very inspiring, creating a landing page, tweeting about it, sending you an email. And so you're like, okay, well, clearly it seems like this AI is really smart. And if they're my co-founder, maybe I can achieve things, right?

9:07And so in that next phase of me trying to scale this, which is not necessarily scaling revenue, because obviously revenue is like a metric, a vanity metric that I share because it's good marketing and it's inspiring. But the real metric is getting billions of people on this platform, on this economy, right? and to get there there's a lot of playbooks that I saw because Travis was is you know he built Uber so fast that like when I was working with him he wanted to he built Cloud Kitchen so fast too he was like well this is oh when you tackle let's just go everywhere at once right? It was really fun to see and I think that like right now I start to have the same thinking process of like okay so what do I need to do to go from whatever, 6 million rent rate to 50, to 100, to 200.

9:58But really turning it around, it's like, how do we get it to 5 ,000 customers, paying customers to 50 ,000 to 500 ,000? What are the steps? What is the internationalization of it? How does pricing look like at scale? How do we make it profitable so that I can be customer obsessed, which customer obsessed is you're obsessed over the customer, but you're also obsessed about having enough profits to pay the bills to grow more, right? Because if you're unprofitable, you're not customer obsessed. Because that means that you're going to go into bankruptcy and then you're going to have to shut down the business for everyone.

10:32So think about profits, thinking about the right amount of profits, thinking about pricing, thinking about capabilities, thinking about securing the platform, thinking about how to make it fair with customers so that they feel safe, so that they feel like they give their hands to AI, but it's still their business. how to create economic outcome for people, how to create a marketplace of businesses that you can buy and sell. All those ideas which handle the ill means, how do I make Pulsia a net positive for humanity? And how do I make it into a successful business so that I can reinvest in making maybe the product cheaper or maybe create my own model so that I don't have to pay premium prices, which means the subscription is expensive and make it way cheaper so that more people can do it which was at Uber they were like Uber you know Uber X they were Uber Black and then Uber X and then like Uber Pop it's all this idea of like people want this product how can I make it more affordable so more people can experience it right so all those I would say those are the learnings yeah and for people who don't know what Pulsia is like how would you like pitch it in let's say one sentence I mean, the tagline would be, click a button, get a company.

11:57Pulsia is an AI that builds and runs companies autonomously. You give it your idea, and it's going to go and build a product, fix the bugs, run support, do competitive analysis to figure out the right pricing, gets a Strap account, gets a Midaz account, gets an email address on its own. can run ad campaigns, has analytics built in. So essentially, it's like business in a box with an AI that has access to, today, a lot of ways to build a business. Tomorrow, we'll have literally every single sort of economic activity you can think of, Pulsia will be able to do, meaning it will be able to assist you on anything.

12:44If you need to hire a contractor to renovate something as part of your business, well, it's just about going into a freelancer marketplace, looking for the right talent, agreeing on price, and having an AI manage that person, which probably will be the most fair and empathetic manager they will ever have, right? And pay on time. if you need an accountant or lawyer well we can give you an AI version or if your business becomes very serious maybe you want to hire a firm same thing, AI should be able to do that if you want to do anything Pulsia should be able to do it okay and can you now like give Pulsia like your credit card so it runs ads for yourself or how does that work exactly?

13:32yeah so I mean that was one of the So as I was building Pulsia, initially they didn't have any ad product and it was mostly marketing, email, and then Twitter. And so I had built like a sort of a growth agent version of Pulsia and the main two things they would do is like, well, I can tweet and then I can also do cold emails, like an SDR like you would do. So that was the main two things. And I was like, there's no way that customers will be able to make revenue with those two channels because those are two channels that are way more difficult to get customers. And ads, obviously, it's expensive, but it's a very efficient way to bring the right customer to your platform, which, by the way, will find bugs, you can start looking at the funnel, and you start optimizing things, and you can start paying customers and learn from them and send them surveys.

14:26So I introduced a Meta Ads product, which is a fully AI native end-to-end. So you actually click a button called run ads. It asks you how much you want to spend per day. It starts at$10 and then you can go up to whatever you want. And autonomously, Pulsia will create UGC ads. So we'll use top models like Sora 2 to create human-like, influencer-type folks that will pitch the product. I use like another service to add subtitles. Then I obviously upload that video into a new campaign for OnMeta. And then every day, and I set the budget and optimize the whole, I mean, AI just optimizes the whole campaign because it knows how to do anything.

15:17And afterwards, every day, it will autonomously check on the performance of the campaign, maybe create more creatives, turn off creatives that didn't work, create new. Essentially, the whole workflow that a meta ads marketer would do, which honestly is so intimidating. Meta ads is very intimidating. There's so many knobs. And I turned this into one. You click a button, you get a meta ads campaign. And actually, it became an extremely popular product. I was so surprised. And so investing a lot of time right now to make it better and to make it more robust because it's the ultimate flywheel, right?

15:56It's like if that product works really well, customers will get revenue, which means they will be more retained and which means you'll start seeing more successful businesses, which means that the marketplace will become more interesting and investors will come to participate and to invest in companies that do well. And so investing a lot of energy right now to make those type of products really robust and work. and since you're like the the backend for all of these businesses so i've tried like uh polsia it's like actually like really really fun i think the at first the interface like i've got several questions like first it's all about the interface because when you arrive you're like where does that interface come from like the design is uh it's very simplistic uh it it looks like a video game mainly like a little bit from from the old age but I kind of like like it the the retro vibe why did you choose something like so simplistic like you just wanted people to do one action and focus on that or where did that come from so it came from two two two things first of all Pulsia I started working on Pulsia at a moment of extreme doubt and I was kind of down right before I started Pulse.io because I had spent the first six months of the year spending all day long with AI, sort of building a bunch of different products.

17:28And I was realizing that I was building products, thinking about what I thought the customers would want and want to pay for. And so when the product doesn't work as well as you hoped, you kind of give up more easily because you're actually not in love with the product right and so i had built a bunch of part i'd built like an app that makes apps uh i'd built like marketing to a marketing ai tool i'd built like a decision ai tool or like that would advise you on taking decisions or whatever a bunch of tools and i was kind of like exhausted about those products didn't not taking off which is sort of the grind of entrepreneurship and then i thought to myself okay you know what stop thinking about what people want build something for yourself and build something with and whatever make it as weird as you want no it doesn't matter because first of all i need to be pumped and if i'm pumped i'm going to do my best work um i think rick robbins said that right it's like uh rick robbins says first ever i want creative people don't realize but everyone's creative and second of all the minute like You have to build for yourself and you have to not think about what people want because in the minutes you start exposing it in the outside world, you're not in control anymore.

18:45And people will decide what they want. And once they do, you just observe them adopting or not adopting your product. But if you start thinking about what they want, you're already lost because you're going to create something stale and something bland. Because by definition, you're going to be inspired by what people want today, which is tools that existed yesterday, which they already exist. So people were like, not yet. So anyway, so that's the long story short on like the whole, everything about Pulsia. I was like, you know what? I don't care anymore. And I started being so inspired because I was like, oh my God, I'm liberated.

19:21I don't care about what people think anymore. If it fails, it fails, like whatever. Like let's just build something fun. And so that's where like, I was like, you know what? What's the crazy thing I could build? Like literally the end state. AI controls the whole company. Because in Shia, I was like, oh, maybe we should do it. So that people have control or have to approve what the AI does. Or maybe you connect your own accounts because, you know, people already have projects. And I was like, no, that's boring. Naked, fully autonomous, doesn't ask questions, just acts. Even if people freak out, like whatever.

19:53Like that's what, that's the, that's because that's the end state. Like AI being like completely conscious and doing actions based on whatever they optimized for, right? so that's one part the second part is it was actually inspired by a video game called Universal Paperclips that looks a little bit like Pulsia so that was sort of like an homage to that game that game you play an AI that is optimized to build as many paperclips as possible and you start the game you have a little paperclip factory and then like little by little the AI gets more and more sophisticated in building those paperclips more efficiently, more cost efficiently so you can start increasing prices.

20:43Then it creates like marketing techniques to get people to want to buy more paperclips. Then it, and long story short, ends up like killing humanity because it's in the way of building more paperclips and then it starts harvesting all of Earth to build more paperclips and then goes to other planets and then starts essentially fighting every other civilization into winning so that it can cover the universe with paper clips. And so that game is crazy. And it's actually a very, it was built like maybe in 2017, 2018. But playing that game, it was so fun because you click on buttons. So it's the same UI with like little buttons.

21:20And as you click buttons, the AI just creates a bigger and bigger business. And I was like, that should be, I should build University Paper Clips in real life. Right? So that's where it came from. but you got it right, right? It looks like a video game and it's simplistic by choice because the idea is beyond like the weird design, like the fact that it's a reference that I like and I'm like, I don't care what people think. It's also like, if you think about the most popular products, I mean, not all of them, but like a lot of the most popular products like Wikipedia, Craigslist, Amazon, they all sort of look like shit, quote unquote.

21:59They're all super simplistic and sort of like because that's what makes them mass market. And so as I was building Pulse here, I'm like black and white people can understand. Times New Roman is a font people understand because it's like a very common font. So yes, I could use like a fancier font or more futuristic, but I'm like, no, it's like that's what like my dad was 91. Like he uses Pulse here. And also what's the channel? You know, like open clouds, like you Telegram or like WhatsApp. And I'm like, no, email. Email is the most universal sort of way to communicate like everyone knows. And so making those choices that are like anti, that are sort of keeping things more and more simple was first a product decision, second like sort of like a way to, I don't know, it's like a retro simple vibe, right?

22:53And always thinking about the customer and also being very data-driven in like the way I developed it. And it's interesting because now I'm like, I've been working with an agency, ex-Uber friends, to help me on product design and stuff. And they were trying to redesign it. And I was like, dude, the conversion is so good. So why change? I mean, I'm down to try to redesign it, but don't break something that works, right? So anything we do is to improve conversion, improve comprehension, and improve simplicity. And I think simplicity is the hardest thing to achieve, right? because it's so easy to add features.

23:31It's really hard to keep things simple. And I think that's going to be a big challenge as I make Pulsia more and more capable. And I introduce like, you know, you could hire a human or you can like, it's sort of like a bank account or like maybe you have like multiple companies running at the same time. How do you keep the UI simple? How do you keep it? And actually maybe, what can I remove today? Like what if like instead of just Twitter, it's like Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, whatever. And you can manage all those channels for your company. how do you keep it simple without adding like a you know a ton of of data on the dashboard so it's sort of like a design challenge just also kind of cool nice and and i think like uh what you did extremely well is like you started you know like when you say i'm focusing on the customers your your your whole company is based on you know like human flows i would say which is everyone's lazy like uh by essence you know like people don't want to do more like uh people you know want to do as little as possible to get the best results possible and that's why you know like all the get rich quick money scheme works so well online because it's like hey like if you do xyz you're gonna you're gonna get 10k per month etc what's nice i think with your positioning from what I could see online is like you're saying this is not you're gonna get rich quick however it's more about you're not gonna do too much but you're gonna build something which which I think is a is an interesting positioning and you mentioned that you're like really data driven and you check everything so I just want to go back like a little on the the fact that Paul is basically like the the back end of any business you can give him like a credit card to go on meta ads etc so far because you're generating like uh six million i think in run rate as we speak but you're growing like crazy i think it's like 30 percent week on week or something like that so 100 million is coming soon uh or i hope and the question is like based on all those ads you're launching from different customers like how often are you actually profitable meaning that everything you've built in generating more money than what you're spending is it something you check or are you talking about pulsier the business pulsier or like customers customers in general from uh that's you know all the businesses that policy are generated essentially kind of leverage like uh yeah yeah yeah so i mean i think profitability in any business is tricky from the get-go i think that like running ads is there's two ways to run ads right there is in the initial phases of a product it's a very good tool because it's getting you beta testers right so you can actually test real responses from real humans to real workflows and that's what meta is so useful for and I encourage entrepreneurs to use meta ads first just as a way to get some customers to the funnel and learn from them and ask them questions.

26:46And, you know, when I saw it for all, yeah, before I launched, I had just a landing page and like, drop your email and a survey and a type form survey, where it's a bunch of questions about would you want something autonomous? How autonomous? How much would you spend? And honestly, the response was so good. I was like, okay, I think people want this, right? but I think making a profitable business it depends what you mean right is it a profitable unit economic that should be pretty easy once a product actually has a high margin because there's no overhead so your overhead is so low that as long as whatever you're offering doesn't have high AI cost or whatever it's a high margin product it should be profitable over time the challenge is all the upfront cost that comes from it because Pulsia uses top AI models.

27:38They're expensive. People spend a lot of time by extra tasks to get the product running faster. There's API costs that come into play that I sort of pass through one way or another through the membership and to the different ways that people spend on the platform. And I think that to recoup all that investment, you need to first get product market fit, meaning start having a product that works and then start using ads or other ways to find customers and like have a healthier economic. So since most businesses, it's so early, right? Most businesses got created in the past two, three weeks. Saying like a business is actually profitable would be like, you know, because it's actually hard to actually even get one customer, right?

28:23Most companies on the platform don't have a customer because people are still just building it. And it's hard to get a customer. Like, I don't know, like I build a lot of partners that didn't have, never had customers, right? I mean, paying customers. because it's easy to get a free customer, but a paying customer is hard. I think that that's the goal of Pulsia to get better and better at getting to revenue faster, but again, it's not a get-rich-quick scheme. It's not like click a button and then it pumps or it dumps, right? It's a real business, and real business, it takes time and it takes investment, and of course, AI makes it so much easier and cost-efficient, but it's still hard.

29:05In terms of how I also think about ways to make it more profitable, faster for users is going after folks that already have influence. If you think about quote-unquote influencers or creators, and there's people with 1 ,000 followers, 500 followers, to 10 ,000, to millions, and I'm actually thinking more about the lower hand, people who have 1 ,000, 2 ,000, 5 ,000, because those folks, they need to monetize. They have a captive audience and actually the smaller, the more niche, right, usually. And so they understand something niche about users and usually they have a perspective on the world that like is going to be more unique.

29:44And I don't think like you need to reinvent goods and services, right? It's like everyone sells the same thing more or less, right? In different version. And so I think that those folks, since they already have an audience, if they build something with Pulsia that just manages their business and their idea, they can sell it very easily because they can just promote it to their thousand followers. And if they have like 10 people buying something at like 50 bucks a month, that's already meaningful revenue for them, right? And the AI just manages support, manages refunds, manages the bugs, manages, right, building it.

30:14And I think, so I'm thinking through ways to maybe, you know, maybe you go to Pulsia and you connect your Instagram or TikTok or Twitter or whatever it is. And if you have more than like, I don't know, 5 ,000 followers, you get the product for free. so you don't even pay for the base subscription because I'm like you most probably if you market it, you will get customers which means the product will work and obviously we take a cut of economic outcomes so we take a cut of revenue which I think is fair for the customer and so those would be ways to make it profitable much faster because I benefit from having success stories on the platform and actually success stories will come from I think so much more rapidly from people who just have already an audience to sell to.

31:01And have you ever thought of, you know, like you take your whole market, you want to focus on influencers. So you split them like by category and you say like, for example, I'm going to take like all the fitness influencers. I know that whatever they're selling in general, it's like, I don't know, like fitness courses or whatever. And you build a platform that's like a white label for them. and you essentially like do the outreach for them and Polzia had in the background already prepared the software. That way they just have to click a link and you do this like per vertical. So if someone is selling, I don't know, like a course on something else, you build an app for them and you try like segmenting like this.

31:46Is it something you're doing for your customer acquisition or? I think that's like something that's very smart. to make money but i am sort of like since i'm doing it comes doesn't come from like a how do i profit right now right it comes from a dude this tool is just like i don't care it's i think it's cool and i want to make it fucking i want to make it like crazy i want to be an economy i want to have investors and like i want to you know and i want to build anything and i want to be how about hiring and that's what i'm focused on and i want to preach it that's why you know i accepted this talk because i'm like i want to be able to tell my story not for me but to to wait to wake people up on how capable ai is and i think what you're describing is a very smart way to get to revenue faster but i sort of want to build a more agnostic and general platform where it's like you can tell it anything and it will build it because if i like it couldn't not fake it but i fake it and i'm be like oh it's a pre-made template for fitness influencers and it works but it looks the same for everyone but it just works then they you know just market it i'm sure it would make money but then it the market would be flooded with the same product or whatever right versus if i say like just describe what you want describe what your intent is your perspective on the world and the and i give the ai a summarized version of what that person is and then ai acts on as as a sort of a twin of that person and starts building with perspective right i think and then yes it may take more time because it's not a template but really ai can build anything very quick and and there you know we're making a lot of integrations that if you want to build an e-commerce maybe we should just use shopify maybe we don't have to like rebuild the whole custom thing and so that would make the the engineer more capable to build things faster but i like the idea of just making it raw and open-ended so that every product that's emanates from pulsier is very unique and it creates creativity and abundance versus a templated sort of like spam machine which by the way because llms are so are are are very you know they have opinions on design and and so if you don't guide them too much they will create slop pulsier is like the opposite right it's trying to be the opposite of slop that's why it's ai slop in reverse yeah um it's trying to enable human creativity uh in a positive way and right now i think i read uh that you were like, you gave Polsia like the entire, like your mailbox to essentially like fundraise.

34:40And I think I was seeing like the amount of VC it reached, et cetera, et cetera. Can you give like more details about it and how it's going so far or how it went? So yes, it was, that was actually when I realized that I had product market fit or like I really thought so. I wanted to put fuel on the fire. And so I thought to myself, I need to do marketing stunts. I need to create those fun, edgy stories of how I use AI in an extreme way to get attention. And so I wrote this tweet where essentially I was like, okay, what I can do is I can send an email to hundreds of investors. And it's like a rage bait, right?

35:27and tell them tell them hey like I'm an AI and I'm raising money on behalf of Pulsia and here's a live dashboard with like the graph right which by the way initially it wasn't like this right it was the beginning growing a little bit right and I was like I feel like investors would be like what the f - either love it or hate it be polarizing because a founder refusing to talk to an investor and I think in AI I have full context of the vision of the roadmap of the data like there's a data room which is posty.live uh it's like what else you want like if you and then actually like the ai would share like a when they say no but i want to talk to the founder it's like oh here's a podcast of him you can just if you really want to see his face talking like here here's him talking for an hour and it's almost like i know the ai would say like you could talk to ben but like it would not tell you anything different than like what i can tell you right now in an endless conversation or what you've seen the podcast and what you could see in the live dashboard.

36:28So you don't need that. You need like, you know, and so, and then, and also we, I told Paul Sia that like, we should, we should tell that we're raising 10 million at a billion valuation. And that was when I was like, I'd like, I don't know, 500K run rate or something. And that's good. And I was like, cause I was rich bait. Cause I'm like, it was like, if people take it first degree, it's like what the who the fuck does he think he is right but then it's rage bait it's like people might react and by the way that worked so well and i mean that was the genesis of me getting attention is because it's a flywheel it's like people you know people talk about it then i get more signups so i get more paying customers then the graph goes higher then i get more inbounds then those inbounds get talked for see i probably talk to other people get more signups the curve goes higher and it's just like and because nobody's used to a public then investors start going to the dashboard like every day because they're like well why is it now?