BONUS: WWE's Logan Paul & Goldin CEO Ken Goldin

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1:31Bloomberg Audio Studios. Podcasts. Radio. News. This is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Ken and Logan, thanks so much for joining the Bloomberg Business of Sports. I'm so excited to have you guys here. Glad to be here. I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks. So Ken the new season of your show Just came out on Netflix this season And I tuned in It's so good it's so interesting There's all the different human stories Of it Logan you come in You lure him in with you know Trying to break in some boxes Trying to find some rare cards Logan I have to you know jump right in here You have the card around your neck now The Pekus 2 illustrator Ken has been trying to buy it from you Why is now the right time Yeah, I appreciate how you said the card.

2:19The, right. It is the card, and that's how I reference it. Yeah, now's the right time for a few reasons, mainly because the Pokemon market is hot. It's hotter than it's ever been. There is actually a Bloomberg article that came out recently highlighting that Pokemon has outperformed the stock market by upwards of 3 ,000 % in the last 20 years. Luckily for me, I heavily invested in Pokemon. And this card was my heaviest investment. I spent$5.3 million for it back in 2022. And given that the market's hot, given that I just spent way too much money on my wedding, but it was the best experience in the world, so totally worth it.

2:57Given that I just bought a new house, have a daughter, it was like the perfect time in my life and Ken gave me a deal I could not refuse. Ken, did you just lure him in with the idea of you were going to find a rare card and then you were like, really, I really just want, I want you. Yeah, I know he's like a kid opening up boxes. He gets very excited. And the opportunity to try to find a card that we were looking for worth$6 or$7 million. And then the hidden opportunity that nobody knew until they started watching the show about opening up the T206 cards from 1909 got him. But quite frankly, it's always better if you can get in front of somebody and talk face-to-face and figure out, okay, what is going to make this deal happen?

3:46What are they looking for? And how can I help them accomplish that goal? And that's what I did with Logan. Yeah. You know, it's interesting as we're obviously we're talking about sports. And when I think of trading cards, I almost think of it as a sports entity and a sports industry. But really, Pokemon does dominate the trading card industry. Why is Pokemon so hot right now? Why is it still sharing so much of the market? Because Pikachu can't tear his ACL. Pikachu won't whip out a Glock on Instagram Live and get his brand destroyed overnight. It's Pikachu. He's the most beloved, most famous character of all time.

4:23Pokemon is the highest grossing franchise of all time. And so it sits at this intersection between community, culture, and collectibles that happens to be at the very pinnacle of what this entire industry is. I love the way you said that, for sure. At the epitome of everything, right? The intersection of everything. Ken, building on that, what do you think it is? And are they different collectors, sports collectors and Pokemon collectors? Some are different. There are a lot of people that collect both. I mean, people who want the buyer of that card, to me, is more likely going to be somebody who spent, you know,$5 million on a sports card before.

5:02And they simply want to own the absolute single best item that they can get, not just in Pokemon, but in the world's largest franchise. And the other thing that, you know, I notice is, you know, Pokemon started 30 years ago. So you had, you know, maybe nine-year-olds, 12-year-olds, 15-year-olds that were playing it, you know, late 90s, 2000s. Now, you know, except for Logan, you know, they're, you know, in their 30s and 40s and maybe and somebody even older is in their 50s. And they have disposable income. and they're now spending it on all the stuff they couldn't afford when they were younger because this to them is their life.

5:52But buying, whether it's a sports card, whether it's a Pokemon card, whether it's an autograph or a game used item, these collectibles capture moments in time. They're history. And when you own something like that, it brings instant gratification. It brings instant recognition to you and to anybody that sees it. I remember that or this is what this represents. And I told one person one time, they said, what do you do for a living? And I said, I sell happiness because people have a crappy day at work. Their kid gets bad grades. They get into a fender bender, but they go home and they look at their collection and it makes them happy.

6:32Yeah, you sell happiness until you lose the auction against Drake. Exactly. I was bidding on a Bob Ross against Drake. I didn't realize it was Drake. I was like, this person is outbidding me. who is this? You had no clue. Meanwhile, Ken's behind the scenes like, oh my God, it's Logan versus Drake. I gotta call Logan and tell him he's not gonna win, but he can't do it. He was the happy one that time. He was the happy one, but yeah, I was very sad I didn't win that day. But there is that emotional connection to it, right, Logan? Like he was saying, you're a big collector and you had mentioned about vastly different things.

7:01For when you're collecting, what is it that you look for, that emotional connection? And also, I know you had said on the show, for you, it's not about the return, really. You just like to have these things as collectibles it's true i i always try to keep the return in mind you don't want to be making like absolutely ridiculous purchases which i have done but for me it's it's it's best in class assets like like what is something that i can buy that is captivating in a way and my interests are vast that is the best in the world i bought wayne gretzky's last championship game hockey stick. There's not going to be another one of those.

7:39He's the greatest hockey player of all time by a mile. It's number nine. He's the great one, Wayne Gretzky. To me, that's a no brainer. Game worn Kobe Bryant jerseys, game worn LeBron's. These are athletes that are generational. And so when I'm investing in things like that or buying a triceratops skull, it's like, okay, it's art. It is a collectible that will hopefully hold and maybe even appreciate it in value. And I like it. I mean, like, dinosaurs are the coolest thing ever. Kobe Bryant, LeBron James is like, these guys are generational icons. And so if I can have something, you know, that means a lot to me and meant a lot to them, I'm in.

8:19Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things I loved on the show is that moment you had talked about. When you're looking for that Onus Wagner, when you're looking for that card, but you had also just found a bunch of rare cards. You'd found the Hulk Hogan rookie card. So you guys were on this ecstasy high. and then Logan ends up on the floor when there's nothing in the pack. Tell me about what it feels like that as a collector. Does that just encompass everything that it feels like to be a collector, Logan? It's the ride. For me, it's the ride. I mean, like when we hit, it's fantastic. And that high is the highest of highs.

8:50But also when you miss, it's not the lowest of lows because like to me, that's the name of the game. And that's almost just as much fun. Like it's the chase for a reason and it's a thrill and you're not always going to hit. And you have to understand that part of collecting is sometimes winning and sometimes losing. That's the name of the game. What about you, Ken? That feeling for a collector.

9:14You have to, if you're going to open up boxes, you know, it's kind of like they say baseball. Baseball is a game of failure, okay? Opening up boxes sometimes is a game of disappointment because not every box is going to have the$1 ,000 card or the$50 ,000 card or what I call the Willy Wonka golden ticket. I'd say most times, actually. Statistically speaking, actually, most times opening up a box is not worth the return on investment because even if you do open up a box and you hit that grail card in the box, you have to hope it gets graded a 10, which is a whole other part of the process. And grading meaning the condition assigned to the card that is the main thing that determines a card's value.

10:01And to get a 10, which is obviously the best grade you can possibly get, meaning the best condition that you can get. Which is where you have yours. Which is what I have around my neck, 101, is really hard. I think like a subset, like 5 % to 15 % of cards get assigned 10s. So even if you hit the card in the box, which is not very likely, you have to hope it gets graded a 10. and the little nicks and the damage that will get this knocked down from a 10 to a 9, an average person would be shocked. If I showed you the little bit of whitening on a corner or a blemish on a surface that can knock it down from a 10 to a 9 and make it a multiple of its value, you would be shocked.

10:41It's a crazy market, huh? Logan, Ken, thanks so much for joining the Bloomberg Business Sports. Super appreciate it. Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me. And again, everybody, Netflix, King of Collectibles, The Golden Touch, Watch season three. If you want a season four, go watch season three. Let's go. I'm coming on season four, kid. Here we go.

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