Dallas Mavericks Fans Suffer Through Lost Season; Atlantic 10 Commissioner Bernadette McGlade

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1:13I'm Michael Barr, along with my colleagues Damian Tassauer and Vanessa Berdomo. Scarlett Fu is on assignment. Coming up on the show, we talk college basketball with Atlantic 10 Commissioner Bernadette McGlade ahead of March Madness. The timing is right for the student athletes to be able to monetize their name, image and likeness. And I'm happy that it's finally here. It certainly is going to change the landscape of Division I college athletics, but I think it's going to change it for the better. Plus, we talked through reporting from our very own Vanessa Perdomo, along with Bloomberg News reporter Jenna Hawk on the growth of women's sports and the hope that players can start to finally cash in.

1:52All that and more is on the way on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. But first, we have to check in on Dallas Maverick fans. Michael Barr fans are not happy with the team after they traded away superstar Luka Doncic. But that isn't all. Now they've lost Kyrie Irving for the season due to a torn ACL. And it looks like, my goodness, Anthony Davis, who they traded for, might very well be out for the season. It is the Spencer Dinwiddie show in Dallas. Michael Barr. And to top it off, season ticket prices are slated to go up almost 9%. Joining us to discuss the state of affairs with the Mavericks is Bloomberg Dallas Bureau Chief Julie Fine.

2:31Julie, welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports. Thanks for having me back. Man, the Dallas Mavericks, you talk about something rough going. We're going to get more into it in a second. But right now, the Maverick fans are being hit with an 8.6 % price hike after trading Luka Doncic to the Los Angeles Lakers. Can you please tell us the pain the people in Dallas are going through? It's not a good situation. I mean, especially for them when the Mavericks basically came out and said, you know, as you look at what they said about it, They said it basically had to do a little bit with fan engagement.

3:14So obviously this is, if you look at the exact quote, it's ongoing investments in the team and fan engagement. That really was the explanation for this price hike. So it's just been a rough road. I mean, for fans that come, and as you know, I mean, basketball fans here, they're a loyal bunch to the team. Very upset. Luka Doncic was really well-liked here. I mean, he was extremely well-liked in the community. Obviously, there were questions about the team was saying the questions about his fitness, whatnot. But in the community, he was really well liked and he is a global star. So fans here, the anger is not subsiding.

3:52Julie, the interesting thing for me there is how can they possibly, you know, justify saying that it's because of fan engagement that they're able to raise the prices. But right now, seemingly, all of the fan engagement is really negative. And a lot of people ended up canceling their season tickets after Luka was traded. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure when fans saw that quote that we all had, it was even more frustrating. It has been one frustration after another for Mavs fans. First, Luka's gone. Then you get Anthony Davis. Then he gets injured. Then you see Luka go to L.A. and Dirk Nowitzki went there as well to cheer him on.

4:33Now, Dirk, of course, obviously saying he's a Mavs fan for life. But I mean, just for Mavs fans, it's just been heartbreaking now to have to deal with spending more money to see a team that's disappointing them. It'll be very interesting to see how this affects the bottom line for them when it comes to season tickets. Well, Julie, let's just crystallize it for our audience here, please. I mean, the Lakers are in second place in the West, OK? Okay. By comparison, the Mavs are in 10th and fighting for their playoff live. But, you know, what really caught my attention was the quotes by Adelson's son-in-law, Patrick Dumont.

5:04You know, when he announced the ticket increase, he says, quote, ongoing investments in the team and fan engagement. That's the reason that they're raising the price. I mean, are they just moving the team to Las Vegas? I mean, Julie, what is going on here? I mean, how do you throw that in your fans' face after the record and, you know, the blowback since Luka? I mean, is there any truth to that rumor? Well, they've been saying that all along. But I sat down with Patrick Dumont when he was here, I mean, months ago, obviously not recently. And they said they are committed to Dallas and they are committed to being here.

5:36So, you know, they're saying all along that they're committed to being here. But of course, fans are curious about that. Of course, they're wondering about it. So they can say it until they're blue in the face. But again, this is just another thing that fans are dealing with. Now, again, I'm going to get into a little Texas politics here. I mean, as you know, online gambling, casino gambling, that is not legal here and it is not making major headway in the legislature. So in terms of a destination resort, I don't see that happening in Texas for some time now. But again, they have said over and over that they are committed to Dallas and they're committed to the fans.

6:14The person who I think has a lot to wonder about right now is Nico, the general manager. I mean, look, we could talk about Nico all we want. I mean, they're calling for his head there. But let's just talk the numbers here. The Mavericks are valued, I think, according to Forbes, at$4.7 billion, right? So, you know, that's up from, you know, just, you know, two and a half billion in 2020. So it's not like the team hasn't doubled pretty much almost its market value in just the last five years. Right. So, you know, I mean, what is moving to Las Vegas really going to get you an incremental value? I mean, what am I missing here?

6:47I mean, can you I mean, where does that argument, I guess, hold any ground, Julie? Well, I think what you're missing here is the same thing that people have continued to be curious about. what is the point of moving them. But again, they say over and over, they are not interested in moving the team. But I see, I'm buying what you're selling there. There's a major question about that. But again, like they're doing well here financially. This is a city that loves its sports. It really does. I mean, people say, oh, we're not necessarily one of the biggest sports towns. Now I tend to disagree with that.

7:22But again, I happen to live here in Dallas, but each of the teams here has very very very close fan bases that continue to follow them even the stars I mean the stars look they're doing great they're heading into the playoffs so in terms of why move them that's an open question but they continue to say over and over that that is not what their interest is now and I know Damian and everybody you know when you think of the Dallas Mavericks the first thing that comes to mind is Mark Cuban but let's let's bring up some history here the casino billionaire the family of miriam adelson they bought control of the mavericks from cuban that was what in 2023 yeah so that's what's kind of fueling the fire i guess yeah that's another thing that's fueling it so and in case you forgot nba fans the mavericks were in the nba finals last year so julie i i guess this is another reason why people are ticked off at the Mavericks.

8:23Well, and I think you have to remember, though, Mark Cuban is no longer running the Mavericks. Sure. He still owns a big piece of it, but he is not running the Mavericks. So this is not a Mark Cuban decision, you know, with Luka. Now, how he feels about it. I mean, he has not come out and said Mark is an excellent businessman, businessman, as you all know, but he is not. I mean, this Patrick Tumon is on the board of governors. I mean, this is the this is his team. Julie, one of the things, you know, obviously that Mark Cuban said when he sold the team was that the way that the NBA is moving towards real estate and things like that, he felt like that wasn't, you know, his area of expertise.

9:01I mean, that was the reason he gave, right? That was the public-facing reason and felt that, you know, the Adelsons were going to be able to secure a new arena. Can you tell us about that and what's going on? And there's even some movement moving the team to Irvine. Is that correct? Let me know about that. Well, I mean, they've discussed moving the team out of downtown, but it's interesting because in downtown, they're in an area called Victory Park and literally right across the thruway there is where they practice. Irving is where the Dallas Cowboys used to play before they moved to Frisco, but there's plenty of space there.

9:34Irving also probably has more space for some sort of destination resort if they wanted to do that. But then again, you get back to the gambling aspect of it, which is a totally different ballgame here in the state of Texas. And that may have to go on the ballot, even if they make any type of progress with that in the legislature. But Ehrmink, by the way, is like 20 minutes outside the city. It's not very far. But at this point, nobody's broken ground on anything. There hasn't been any of that. I think right now they're just sort of catching their breath from this period of time that they're going through.

10:08You know, Julie, I mean, you mentioned Nico Harrison and, you know, we kind of all don't want to talk about it because it's just so bad. But but, you know, I wonder, you know, you're on the ground there. I mean, talk to me about what what's the word coming out of Jason Kidd's camp? I mean, has he commented at all since the Luka trade? Yeah, I haven't heard much from Jason Kidd. I'm not following all of his pressers every day, so let me be the first on that. But I haven't heard much from his camp. Yeah, I haven't heard much from his camp. I mean, Jason Kidd also works for Nico Harrison. So, I mean, he's you know, he spoke very honestly.

10:41I mean, listen, you all saw the day they spoke about the trade and then you all saw what Luca's reaction was when he was in Los Angeles, when he was introduced. I mean, the whole thing was just mind boggling. It's still in a way it's very mind boggling. I mean, you got SMU is obviously one of our colleges here. And at a basketball game, their fans at a basketball game, there were screaming fire Nico. I mean, this is not like things have gotten easier for Nico Harrison. But again, you know, he really thinks this is what is going to help this team in the long run. Well, look where they are. They're almost in the playoffs.

11:18So now, again, I do want to add, though, the Mavs have been just destroyed by injuries of late. And, you know, that's certainly not helping the situation either. Like, it's really the worst of all worlds for this team. But it will, you know, it'll be interesting to see what happens with Nico. I mean, I don't think, you know, you're going to see anything in the next couple of months. And clearly the Dumonts like him and trust him or they wouldn't have let this happen. Julie, one of the things I'm interested in is obviously, like you were saying before, Dallas is actually kind of a really incredible sports town.

11:50Does the downtick in the Mavericks right now change that as a whole? Do you think it has any effect on the town itself? Well, I mean, I think they're going to, you know, I think we all know from our fan bases, you get frustrated with your fan bases at times. Like, listen, I'm from Buffalo. I remember when we were two and 14, I'm still a Bills fan. You know, you kind of get through it, you push through. So I think it's a frustrating time. But there's, again, with a city like Dallas, too, there are so many sports here. I think we get overlooked in that respect. You know, there's so many different sports here.

12:23We have WNBA. I mean, we have so much going on that I think while people are frustrated with the Mavericks, eventually they'll stick it out. And there's still plenty of great sports for people here. Yeah, I think what the wings are supposed to get the number one draft picked. Is that right? Yeah, they're supposed to get the number one, the new Caitlin, the new Caitlin Clark. So that's always exciting. And, you know, seeing as now we can say that this was brought to you by the Dallas Chamber of Commerce, I can again say we really are a great sports town. Our thanks to Bloomberg Dallas Bureau Chief Julie Fine for joining us.

12:58Up next, we're marking International Women's Day this weekend with a conversation on the rise of women's sports and whether leagues can capitalize on recent momentum and start paying players their due. That is straight ahead on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. For my colleagues Damian Sassauer and Vanessa Perdomo, I'm Michael Barr. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. It's a great time to apply for an Apple Card. You'll love earning unlimited daily cash on every purchase. That includes 3 % daily cash when you buy the latest iPhone, AirPods, and Apple Watch at Apple.

13:40Through this special referral offer, when you get a new Apple Card, you can earn bonus daily cash. To qualify, you must apply at apple.co slash getdailycash. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch. Offer may not be available elsewhere. Terms and limitations apply. This is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports, where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr, along with Damian Sassauer and Vanessa Bergdommel. Scarlett Fu is on assignment. The WNBA is coming off a great season, powered in part by the rise of superstar Caitlin Clark.

14:18Clark the steal. Mitchell the knockaway. Clark's three. It's good. It's part of a larger rise in popularity for women's sports across the board. but the players still earn a lot less than their male counterparts. Our very own Vanessa Perdomo and Bloomberg News reporter Jenna Hawk did some reporting on how players are seeking a bigger cut of the billions of dollars now flowing into women's sports. And Jenna joins us now to discuss. Thanks for having me. You know, I get frustrated because I get tired that it's taken this long for this to take place. why so blasted long um well the short answer there is um sexism i would say um you know so that's really the short answer there michael but i i think that the reason why you know we we've decided to write this piece was because of everything that happened last year so we really have this thesis of 2024 was the year of women's sports but they still didn't get the chunk of the money that was, you know, what we were seeing with the investment coming in.

15:26So we wanted to look at what's at stake for them to really get that money this year. Now, you guys got to correct this one for me because I didn't know the statistic. Is that right? That of the men's and the women's NBA regular season that was consumed in 2024, it was 60 % men's, 40 % women's. Is that right? So in terms of the revenue generated, it's 60-40 split, yet you guys point out that part of the revenue sharing for the players. It's only 3 % to the women. Is that right? Yeah, Jenna, can you get into that? Because there was that, like, more, there was so much more about that revenue sharing that we weren't really able to get into the piece.

16:03It's really in the weeds. Jenna, can you explain that? Totally. Yeah, so basically the NBA and WNBA have recently inked this new media rights deal that's considered historic for both leagues. Right. Unfortunately, it's not equal or historic in terms of equal pay. So you're exactly right that the WNBA over this entire last season has and compared with the NBA, the WNBA has captured around 40 percent of the ratings. Wow. In terms of money that they're actually getting to pay players and to actually fund the league, that's only around 3 percent of the money. So there's still this, even with these kind of historic media rights deals that they say are some of the best kind of deals for women's sports, it's still not at all equal or even close to equal.

16:53There are so many women that are out there that are kicking butt and taking names. But in 2024, there's one name that just ker-pow. We are now, hello, we are arriving, Jenna, and it's Caitlin Clark. Oh, yes. Ms. Clark. Can you explain to the audience her impact and what she has meant, not just obviously to the WNBA, but to women's sports in general? Totally. So Caitlin Clark obviously had a historic record career in college basketball. And so then when she arrived to the WNBA, she was able to convert so many college basketball fans to the W. which then brought in a flu of corporate sponsorships, extra media partnerships, all these other deals.

17:47But also, it shed a light again on this pay and equity. So, Caitlin Clark, when she arrived into the WNBA, she only took home$76 ,000 in her first season. The number one draft pick for the NBA, so basically the exact same male counterpart for the NBA, Victor Wimbenyama earned more than 100 times that salary in his first season. I mean, I'm not – listen, you make$76 ,000 and you're out there and, you know, you're trying to do a job. That's one thing. But compared to what you just said to Victor Wimbenyama, I mean, that's ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah, people were comparing her salary to an entry-level accountant, which I think is very funny.

18:32No, but Michael Barr, I mean, you haven't even scratched the surface. Listen to this statistic that Jen and Vanessa pull out of this article. Volleyball, okay? Professional volleyball player, right? And volleyball, you know, come on the scene. You know, we've had John Patrikov, John Soros on this very show talking about Athletes Unlimited, but Pro Volleyball Federation and League One Volleyball pay on average a minimum salary to their players of something like$60 ,000. Yet that's just$6 ,000 below the minimum salary paid to a WNBA professional basketball player. That is, am I getting this right?

19:05Correct me if I'm wrong, girls. I think it's$16 ,000. No, it's$16 ,000 less than Kaitlyn Clark's, but it was$6 ,000. It doesn't matter. It doesn't even matter. Oh, minimum salary. The minimum salaries were about there, which is exactly that. So the point that we were bringing across there and that I brought in volleyball into the conversation because it's this next sport, this next women's sport that people are pouring a lot of money into. Now there's going to be four professional leagues in the U.S., four women's professional volleyball with$100 million pouring into each league. So the reason why they're able to have this$60 ,000 minimum is because there's only about six to eight teams in each of those leagues.

19:42Right, so less players, more capital to go around. Totally get that. But it's their first year. This is volleyball first year! That's exactly my point. I mean, you can't even, it's apples and oranges. It's just a different constellation entirely. And yet only six, for minimum weight, that is just, anyway. So that is obviously, and Jenna, correct me if I'm wrong, why you have these new leagues like Unrivaled that are coming on the scene where women players are getting paid. Talk to us a little bit about Unrivaled. What's their business strategy that they're able to pay so much more to your average player?

20:13And do you think there's a real possibility that that league could even unseat and take some of the talent away from the WNBA? Totally. So Unrivaled started actually as a spinoff created by a couple of current WNBA players, some of the biggest stars in the league, Brianna Stewart and Nafisa Collier. And their whole ethos was that players shouldn't be going overseas in the offseason. They need to keep being seen by an American audience. They need to keep being able to improve on their game while also having access to new media opportunities, to new corporate sponsorships. So let's give them a platform to pay.

20:49And, you know, they were able to shore up a ton of investments. They raised a ton of capital. And they're guaranteeing all their players will make way more than they make in the W for about a third of the season. And also, Nafisa Collier, who's one of the co-founders of the league, they ended up doing this really fun in the middle of the season, you know, one-on-one tournament. She won it. She won$200 ,000. And she said, in 30 minutes of play, I won the equivalent of my WNBA salary. I mean, that is crazy. Well, remember now, this is kind of what got Brittany Griner in trouble. Because she had to go over to Russia to play.

21:25And then, well, we all know the story of what happened. But the point is, she had to go to Russia to go make more money than she would have been at the time in the WNBA. Absolutely. So many players were traveling to Russia, to Turkey, to China, to Spain, to South Korea. and they were making essentially like three to four times their income in a WNBA season alone. Yeah, mind you, like about seven figures, Brianna Stewart, I mean, Brittany Griner was making overseas in Russia, and that's why there was that, you know, inkling to go there. Diana Storossi one time got paid by them to not play in the WNBA, you know, so, and it still hasn't gotten to that level, but that's where this new CBA is coming into play this year, which is a lot of the reporting that me and Jenna did this, you know, did this on this article was this new CBA for the WNBA is really going to be make or break in this conversation.

22:19Well, that's exactly where I want to go. I mean, when do we see that CBA negotiation take place? What comes next? What's the lead up look like into that, you know, into that actual decision? I mean, I mean, I haven't heard much about it. I mean, who's who's in the room? You know, who's making these decisions? So last October, the union opted out of continuing the existing collective bargaining agreement, Which was with the men, right? Or am I wrong? That's different. So they opted out of their own collective bargaining agreement last October and are basically taking all of this entire year to negotiate with the league to strike a better contract.

22:58And from the union side, the executive director, Terry Jackson, kind of told us it's like preparing for battle. They have hired tons of great lawyers. They hired a Nobel Prize winning economist, Claudia Golden. They've hired communications people, media people to basically just staff up and be able to say, here are the financial documents. Are we being undervalued? What do we need to be asking for? Here are meetings with the players. Here's what they want to prioritize. How do we make this work so that we can strike a contract that's good for everyone? I want to give a shout out, since we're talking about the WNBA, to Serena Williams.

23:36He just invested in the new team in Toronto that will hit the league in 2026. And it's amazing to see Serena come into the league in that way, especially because I've actually had conversations with her husband, Alexis Ohanian, because he obviously invests a lot in women's sports. He's invested into the NWSL and track and golf. But he said he wasn't sure if he would get into the WNBA. So now Serena is stepping into that market, which is incredible. And I think even more impactful to have someone like her come into the league, come into a new team and say, you know, I want to be a part of this.

24:12And obviously it just brings in more eyes and building in a new organization, new expansion. I mean, there are so many more expansion teams that are coming into the league in the next couple of years. So it's exciting. So, Jenna, they renegotiated in October of last year, and now they're going to spend all this year in talks on a new contract, which is expected to take effect, I guess, next year? January of 2026. Okay, so we'll probably hear by Q3 or something as we get into there. I don't know. I mean, is there any expectation on when we're going to hear that they've been making progress, that they're closed on something?

24:47Probably. I mean, is it going to be right up until, I don't know, December 31st? I mean, what are your thoughts there? Yeah, I think it really depends on how much each side is willing to compromise. We know that they've met a couple times already. And from the W side, they have announced that they've had productive meetings with members of the union, with advisors, players, etc. It's definitely still early right now. But things are hopefully looking good. again when we spoke to the executive director she had this tone of hopefulness and she was like I feel really excited and I'm ready to do this big challenge and I'm ready to stand with these players and yeah there was just an aura of hopefulness around her.

25:30The reality is too for the W they want it to be the best deal that they've ever given. Which means they want to do it as late in the year as possible. I'm speculating here because this is where I'm going. I mean you've got Caitlin Clark. This is going to be year two of Caitlin Clark. It's going to be another big year you would think. So if I'm the owners and I'm thinking about my wallet, I'm thinking let's get something done sooner rather than later before the numbers start to come in. But maybe I'm just speculating. But that's kind of right. I mean, that's got to be what you're thinking right now if you're on both sides of the playing field, I guess.