In short
Bloomberg Business of Sports - Episode Summary
Episode Title
FBI Arrests NBA Players, Coaches in Sports Gambling Scheme
Hosts
- Michael Barr
- Vanessa Perdomo
- Damian Sassower
Episode Overview
In this episode, the hosts discuss a major illegal sports gambling scheme involving NBA players and coaches, including Terry Rozier and Chauncey Billups. The conversation highlights the implications of the arrests and ongoing investigations, touching on broader issues of corruption in sports gambling.
Key Highlights
- Illegal Sports Betting Scheme:
- Incident: Terry Rozier allegedly informed a friend about his intention to leave a game early due to injury, enabling the friend to gamble $200,000 on Rozier's points underperformance.
- Arrests: Rozier and Portland Trail Blazers head coach Chauncey Billups were arrested among 30 individuals connected to the scheme.
- Charges: Federal prosecutors allege involvement in insider trading and organized crime related to betting practices.
- Federal Investigation:
- Scope: The investigation spans multiple states and involves current and former NBA players and coaches.
- Prosecutor Statements: U.S. Attorney Joseph Nussela indicated that the scheme defrauded through betting on insider information, including player injuries.
- Expert Insights:
- Guest: Bloomberg senior reporter Myles Miller provided in-depth analysis of the scandal.
- Implications: The scandal represents a significant breach of integrity within the NBA, prompting discussion about the league's prior investigation that found no wrongdoing.
- Organized Crime Links:
- Connection: The investigation reveals ties to organized crime in New York, suggesting that the gambling scheme extends beyond the NBA.
- Methodology: Allegations include rigged poker games controlled by mafia families, showcasing a systemic level of corruption.
- Ongoing Investigations:
- Future Probes: The conversation raised the possibility of further investigations into other potential corrupt practices within the NBA and the impacts of sports gambling on major sports leagues.
- Public Sentiment: Discussions included the potential fallout from the investigation, with public and media scrutiny expected to increase.
- Controversy in the NBA:
- Kawhi Leonard and Clippers Investigation: The episode also covers emerging controversies regarding the LA Clippers and allegations of salary cap circumvention.
- NBA Commissioner Challenges: Adam Silver is faced with the challenge of maintaining league integrity amidst these controversies.
- Partnerships and Future Growth:
- Carlyle and Oracle Red Bull Racing: The episode concludes with insights into Carlyle's investment in the Oracle Red Bull Racing Team, highlighting the growing intersection of finance and sports sponsorships.
Conclusion
The episode emphasizes the serious nature of illegal gambling practices in the NBA and raises significant concerns about integrity and governance within professional sports. The hosts and guests provide expert commentary on the ramifications of these events, both for the individuals involved and the broader landscape of sports management.
Key Takeaways
- The importance of transparency and integrity in sports.
- The growing influence of organized crime in sports betting.
- The need for robust regulatory frameworks to combat corruption and maintain public trust.
- The evolving relationship between sports and financial investment, as seen in sponsorships and partnerships.
Listen to the Full Episode
For more insights into the ongoing developments in the sports industry, listen to the full episode of Bloomberg Business of Sports.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00I'm Barry Ritholtz, inviting you to join me for the Masters in Business Podcast. Every week, we bring you fascinating conversations with the people who shape markets, investing, and business. CEOs, fund managers, billionaires, Nobel laureates, traders, analysts, economists, everybody that affects what's going on in the market. Whether you own stocks, bonds, real estate, commodities, crypto, you really need to hear these conversations. Sometimes it's behaviorists like Dick Thaler or Bob Schiller. Sometimes it's fund managers like Peter Lynch, Bill Miller, Ray Dalio. Sometimes it's authors, Michael Lewis, author of The Big Short, and Moneyball.
0:45Regardless of the conversation, these are the folks that move markets each week. That's the Masters in Business podcast with me, Barry Ritholtz. Listen on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the Business of Sports. Sports are the greatest unscripted show on earth. The next generation of players really grew up with tech and believe in tech. Your face is your ticket. Your face is your wallet. Your face is your access to a club. These are such iconic and important buildings for businesses, for fans. COVID was one of the best things that ever happened to golf. The NFL is a bulletproof business.
1:24Racing is unique because there is absolutely no reason why we can't compete with the guys. Come on, is pro pickleball real? Are people really going to tune into this? If you're playing Moneyball with a huge bag of money, you're going to be really, really good. Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr. I'm Damian Sassauer. And I'm Vanessa Perdomo. Coming up on the show, we talk a little left for one. And our colleague Danny Berger from Bloomberg Television got a chance to sit down with Carlisle CEO Harvey Schwartz and Oracle Red Bull Racing Team principal Laurent Meckies about their new partnership and the Oracle Red Bull Racing Team's recent success.
2:08We'll hear a portion of Danny's conversation with Schwartz and Meckies from the sidelines of the Formula One Grand Prix in Austin, Texas. All that and more is on the way on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. But first, we've got news this week of a major illegal sports betting scheme going on in the NBA. That's right, Michael. More than 30 people across 11 states were arrested in connection to a sprawling gambling scheme that involved current and former NBA players and coaches. That's right, Vanessa. Miami Heat guard Terry Rozier and Portland Trailblazer head coach Chauncey Billups were among those arrested as part of two separate criminal gambling schemes.
2:43Now, according to the allegations, one scheme involved using non-public information about players and teams to make bets, and the other involved a nationwide scheme that allegedly used special technology to rig poker games. Both of these schemes went far and beyond the NBA and involved organized crime families. On Thursday, FBI Director Cash Patel held a press conference announcing the bust alongside several federal officials, including interim U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of New York, Joseph Nocella, who detailed the schemes. Between December 2022 and March 2024, these defendants perpetrated a scheme to defraud by betting on inside non-public information about NBA athletes and teams.
3:31The non-public information included when specific players would be sitting out future games or when they would pull themselves out early for purported injuries or illnesses. That is U.S. Attorney Joseph Nussela in an FBI presser on the massive illegal gambling scheme of allegations involving both former and current NBA players. For more on what we know about the scheme, we welcome Bloomberg senior reporter Miles Miller. Miles Miller, welcome to the Bloomberg business of sports. I wish it was on a happier note, but this is very serious. And you know it's serious when the House Minority Leader, Hakeem Jeffries, says that this is a case that is stunning and should shake NBA fans.
4:14Tell us about it. Yeah, so this is a criminal indictment that charges that NBA players, current and retired, were involved in two separate schemes. You've got the one scheme that involves NBA players being involved in sports betting. and basically you wouldn't say throwing a game, but removing yourself from a game early so that another party is able to make money off of that. In this instance, we're told by Brooklyn prosecutors that the Miami Heat guard, Terry Rosier, was one of the people who was responsible for this. And it goes back to a game he played when he was on his former team. Back in 2023.
4:58Exactly. And he went out saying that his ankle was hurting, his foot was hurting. But prosecutors say in this case, the truth of the matter was that, you know, he knew someone was placing a bet that would go a certain way. And the only way to facilitate that happening would be for him to leave the game. You may be thinking, why are federal prosecutors in Brooklyn interested in this? And, you know, the reason is this goes back to 2023. We're going back to the case involving Jonte Porter. Now, the reason why he is so central to this case is because he had said that he had a gambling addiction. And that was the reason why he had gotten involved in some of these illegal sports betting schemes.
5:43And then what happens? You know, you know a good thing is going on, so you bring your friends into it. And that is what prosecutors are alleging. The reason why these NBA players were involved was because, you know, they have a central link in one NBA player. It's really unbelievable, all of the moving parts to this story. And like you had mentioned, this incident that happened with Terry Rozier in 2023, he was under investigation at the time in 2023. And the NBA found that there was what their conclusion was nothing illicit had happened at the time. But now it comes back around. When you found out this new information, was there any indication that it was this big and there were so many moving parts to this?
6:21Yeah, you should have seen. I mean, if you saw the press conference, you saw how many people were involved in the case, right? This was a wide ranging case that started in 2019. So they've been working on this case for quite some time. To your question about this, it boggles the mind that the NBA says that they closed their investigation and they found no wrongdoing. when you see very clearly the wrongdoing that was found by federal prosecutors here. The one thing that's important to note is that federal prosecutors have said that the NBA is cooperating in this case. But how is it that you hire an external law firm and you have folks look into this?
7:01I mean, there was an independent firm that looks into sports betting irregularities and found the bet and found the specific amount of money tied to it. So how the NBA was not able to find this is beyond me. Does that then bring up the conversation of do they now have to look at every investigation that the NBA has taken place of? Now we're talking about the Kawhi Leonard and Clippers investigation that's going on right now about cap circumvention. Do they then have to look at all the things the NBA has said that they've investigated and come up with no conclusion? You know, the U.S. attorney, I think, was very clear this is an ongoing investigation.
7:36And I thought what the FBI director said was really interesting. that this is a major scandal and historic when it comes to the NBA. This is not the last we'll hear of this investigation because it's very clear that if the NBA is led to do their own investigations into this and it leads to nothing, and then you've got all of these feds standing up there and saying, we found something. And it involves, in one instance, the four of the five crime families in New York, you You know, I'm talking about organized crime, the mafia in New York. There is much more to this. And it didn't just, it's not just these three players that are named here.
8:14They're going to continue doing this investigation. And it is clear that an FBI agent's retiring. You're going to have people retiring from the Eastern District who worked on these cases. They'll probably go join the NBA. They'll probably go join some of these law firms to start looking into these sports books and figuring out just what's happening as it relates to players and how players are using the sports books. Miles, is this only the beginning? Are we just scratching the surface of the impact of sports gambling on major sports? I got to believe that the NFL, Major League Baseball, they too have had, quote unquote, reports that, you know, maybe this player was taking himself out of games or they were doing some, I mean, referees, etc.
8:50You know, is there more coming? Oh, there's certainly more coming. And certainly from the Eastern District, right? I think it was important to note that this happened in Brooklyn because of the prior case. And all it shows me is that it's going to continue to happen. We asked about college basketball and college sports, and they said college sports wasn't involved in this. But that's not to say that this kind of scheme won't happen when it comes to college sports. He said that the sports books are the victims in this case. But it's going to be incumbent on these sports books to figure out who's making these wagers and figure out if there's any corruption happening when these wagers are happening.
9:33One more thing that's interesting. The Waterfront Commission was involved in this. The Waterfront Commission is one of the oldest law enforcement agencies in the country, really focused on the mob. They're involved in this investigation into NBA players who are doing bets or who are involved in bets where they take themselves out of games or go sick or can throw a game. That is something that should not be overlooked. And this is more than just prop bets in the game. I mean, this, the allegations of that are bad enough. This goes now into the underground poker games where you've got x-ray machines that they're alleging here.
10:17They've been used to read cards. I mean, and the mafia families made millions off of this, according to what the officials are saying. Yeah, I've got them in my bag. I should have brought them with me, the court documents here. literally you can see through the table and they had cameras under the table so basically you're playing on an x-ray machine and you could see what cards were being dealt they're watching hand signals, they've got surveillance in the room, they've got manipulated card machines, all of this happening on Washington Street down west side of Manhattan and on Lexington Avenue not far from where we are So it's really interesting that organized crime, and they say Italian organized crime, that's what they're calling it, is still alive and well in New York.
11:09And how are they able to make their money? By running these rigged games. And in some of the cases, you see people saying, hey, listen, what you did was wrong. You took my money and that kind of thing. And these people who are losing tens of millions of dollars, what do they do? what's the first thing they do they call the FBI and they say hey listen I was taken and here's who did it and here's how I how it all came together and all the text messages are right there plain as day showing how the scheme worked and and Vanessa during that press conference they were saying one person got taken for 1.5 million dollars in a poker game and they were like hey wait a minute what's going on here and then when you didn't pay according to the allegations the crime family, they got tough.
11:55They became the crime family, right? Yeah. So, Miles, can you just connect the dots there on how that organized crime and the poker games relate to this NBA investigation? Right. The easiest way to explain it is that Damon Jones, a former NBA player, is connected in both schemes. He was connected to the scheme that involved non-public information and players going out on injuries or illnesses, pulling themselves from games. And he was involved in the card situation where you could see cards on x-ray machines and all of that kind of stuff. He's the link between the NBA and organized crime in this instance.
12:40He's the one who was the connector of those dots. In addition to that, when it comes to the card games, they would use these NBA players to get high-quality folks in. Oh, you've got this NBA player who's going to be sitting in the game. A face card. A face card, right? Oh, I'll get to take a picture with him, and I'll get to spend time. Maybe I'll have a drink with him. And then also trying to use these NBA players to basically enforce when they lose all this money to say, hey, you need to pay these guys back. It's not all right. And, you know, if you have a big celebrity telling you to do that, you know, you're going to find any way to do it so that you're, you know, you're not in any more trouble.
13:23Our thanks to Bloomberg senior reporter Miles Miller for joining us. Up next, we stick with the NBA and some controversy surrounding Clippers star Kawhi Leonard. For Damien Sassauer and Vanessa Perdomo, I'm Michael Barr. You are listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports, Bloomberg Radio around the world.
13:46I'm Carol Masser. And I'm Tim Stenevec, inviting you to join us for the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Now, every day we are bringing you reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead. We've got insight on the people, the companies and trends that are shaping today's complex economy. That's right, Tim. We're all over global business, finance, tech news, all as it is happening in real time. And we've got complete coverage of the U.S. market close. Gotta say, basically, if it impacts financial markets, if it impacts companies, if it's impacting trends and narratives that are out there, we are on it.
14:15We also have a lot of fun doing it. Bloomberg Business Week also brings you the analysis behind the headlines through conversations with our expert guests. And we are doing this all live each weekday. And then we bring you the best analysis in our daily podcast. Search for Bloomberg Business Week on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or anywhere else you listen. Check it out on your way home from work to catch up on the conversations that you miss during the business day. And on the weekend, check it out for a complete wrap-up of your business week. That's the Bloomberg Business Week daily podcast. I'm Carol Masser.
14:44And I'm Tim Stenevec. Subscribe today wherever you get your podcasts.
14:51This is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr. I'm Damian Sassauer. And I'm Vanessa Perdomo. On top of the illegal gambling probe we learned about this week, there's also some controversy brewing in L.A. with Clipper star Kawhi Leonard. The NBA is investigating whether the Clippers were able to work around the league's salary cap to get extra money to Leonard. Oh, dear. Joining us now to talk about it is Bloomberg News Global Sports Business Reporter Ira Budway. Ira, welcome back to the Bloomberg Business of Sports.
15:27Good to be here. You said in your article NBA Commissioner Adam Silver has a Steve Ballmer problem. Explain that. Well, the league has recently launched an investigation into Balmer and the Clippers over allegations that they have circumvented or tried to circumvent the salary cap. And that is a big deal in the NBA. It's kind of, as Commissioner Silver once called it, a cardinal sin. And so he's going to have to get to the bottom of this. But it's a very tricky situation when you're dealing with disciplining owners in any sports league because you work for the owners as a commissioner. So he's in a bit of a pickle.
16:05I mean, it's interesting because he came into the league, Adam Silver, I mean, when he came into the league and was, you know, started as commissioner, he essentially came in and fired one of the owners, banned them for life, banned Donald Sterling for life, which is the team that Steve Ballmer then buys. but he did that pretty swiftly and without any issues right kind of seemed like everyone was on his side donald certainly was in the wrong but this is very different do you think this is probably the hardest thing he's had to deal with and trying to make a decision on this if he is found guilty i mean it is very different and we should be clear that sterling got in trouble for making racist comments that were recorded which is a lot different than trying to get around the salary cap But I think it's interesting going back to that moment 11 years ago when Silver banned Sterling for life, which led to Sterling having to sell the Clippers and the buyer was Steve Ballmer.
16:59That was interesting because at the time, even though nobody thought Sterling was in the right or really should own this team, it was a question whether Silver had the authority to force him to sell. And he was just three months into his tenure and he figured out a way to make it happen. And it was pretty bold. First, he did the lifetime ban, and then they switched the ownership to Sterling's wife, and then that led to the sale. So he managed to force a sale without sort of forcing this question in front of the owners of whether that was allowed. Now he's got a thing where Balmer is the wealthiest owner in the league, and he's been very active.
17:34He's a huge fan. He's front row. He's always loud. He's very well-known, former CEO of Microsoft. He just spent$2 billion of his own money to build a new arena for the Clippers, the Intuit Dome. That's supposed to host the All-Star Game in February. So it's a very tricky thing because salary cap circumvention is a big deal. Because if teams are doing it, then your salary cap kind of doesn't really exist. Well, Ira, we're talking about the integrity of the league here, right? And so, you know, you're bringing us back to the Sterling's Dome in 2014. I want to bring you back to 1999. I want to bring you back to the Joe Smith fiasco.
18:07because that, to my knowledge, is the last time we had salary cap circumvention. And the penalty, if I remember, on the Timberwolves was absolutely massive. I mean, I think they took four or five first rounders. If they do that in today's day and age, which I'm not suggesting they would, but there is precedent there. I mean, that could just pummel the team for a decade. As the David Stern era. Yeah. So, I mean, like, so is that really what's at risk here? I mean, that is a mess. I mean, Clippers are one of the most, forgive me if I'm wrong. I don't know the number, but valuable franchises in the NBA, right?
18:40I mean, top 10 for sure. So, I mean, what would that do to that? I mean, it's got to be not a good thing. Yeah, I mean, Silver has broad liberty to penalize the Clippers. And there is a set of penalties outlined in the bylaws in the collective bargaining agreement that includes stripping draft picks. And Joe Smith, you're right. They took away five first-rounders. Timberwolves got some of those back later. But, yeah, they can do a lot. And also Silver has liberty under the NBA rules to punish owners just for doing things that act contrary to the interests of the league. So it really depends what this investigation discovers.
19:18So right now they've got Wachtell looking into it. If they come back and they show very strong evidence that Ballmer was aware of this, that the Clippers somehow directed this, and this is a side contract or an endorsement contract with Kawhi Leonard that's under question, that if the Clippers were involved, then, yeah, I think the punishment could be pretty severe because you have to disincentivize this behavior. So you could be talking about lost draft picks. You could be talking about millions of dollars in fines. And you could be talking about voided contracts. So there's a lot of ways that they can go.
19:52It could really damage the Clippers. So let me ask you this. Back in 1999, did David Stern consult with other owners about that penalty? I mean, I don't know the answer, right? And because my question is, Silver works for the 30 NBA teams, not just the Clippers, right? So there are 29 other owners out there, all of whom might want to see Bomber get the max penalty, while others might not because it might have an impact on their own franchise valuation. So my question is, do you think that Silver would at least take counsel from some of the other team owners with whom he works for? Yeah, you know, it's a very tricky question.
20:29I think right now he's probably saying let's let this investigation play out. He needs that to say we paid for this independent investigation. We want to see what it says. What is the evidence beyond what's been publicly presented by Pablo Torre in his podcast? And can we corroborate that? And can we figure out what's really going on here? But, yeah, what's interesting is the other owners are also torn, I think, right? Because on the one hand, they are Balmer's competitors. They are his rivals. They want to beat him. Cap circumvention is a form of cheating. They would be pissed about that in theory.
21:05On the other hand, they are Balmer's partners. They all share one 30th of an interest in this league. And they don't necessarily want the league to be damaged. And they also don't want a precedent where the commissioner has a free hand to punish owners because they're an owner too. Right. And so as his partners in the business, they might like to see this go away with a slap on the wrist. As his rivals on the court, they might like to see the full weight of the law brought down on Ballmer. So that is, I think, exactly the dynamic that Silver's going to have to navigate in this moment. I had forgotten until you had written it that the NBA salary cap has been in place since 1984.
21:48Now, today, it is at$155 million per franchise. Quite frankly, Ira, that's not much in today's league. Yeah, I mean, I think if you look at how much money some of these owners have, right? Balmer, an estimated net worth$175 billion. So for him, you could look at the salary cap as a nuisance, right? He really wants the Clippers to win. He can only spend$155 million. And you can go over that through various exceptions. You can pay the luxury tax and so on. But you're really limited in what you can spend. And that is why the NBA has salary cap circumvention rules because they know that these incentives are in place, that Balmer and other owners might really want to spend more than they're allowed to win, right?
22:34And so, yeah, that is the trick here is can you enforce your salary cap, which is there for competitive balance and to control costs for the league and for owners. Ira, I'm curious, like, if this is really, what are they looking for? What is harsh evidence here? Can they actually find it? Do they want to find it? Or is this going to be something like we've seen before that makes huge headlines, but nothing really comes of it like when the Astros got caught sign stealing and they kind of just skated over it? Yeah, I mean, it's really interesting. I do think the league wants to get to the bottom of it.
23:10What's at stake here is there's this company Aspiration. It's now bankrupt. Its leader was brought up on federal charges for fraud. One of its co-founders, he's agreed to plead guilty. But this company Aspiration that did like climate finance, they did a deal with the Clippers to be a partner in the Intuit Dome. And Ballmer invested$50 million in them back in September of 2021. And then after that aspiration, did a deal with Kawhi Leonard, an endorsement deal for four years,$28 million. What's fishy about that deal is Leonard never really did anything in public to endorse aspiration. Right. And so it looks like pay to play potentially.
23:54And it said he had to stay a clipper. Yeah. According to Pablo Torre, who broke the story on his podcast, the contract allows him to not do anything. As long as he's on the clippers, he gets paid. um and so what walktell is going to have to figure out here is why did aspiration do that that's the central mystery well wasn't kawaii leonard a supermax to begin with so he was on a four-year 176 million dollar contract extension with the clippers which was an interesting choice he signed that in 2021 he could have done a shorter deal he could have to get to a bigger contract sooner he could have done a bigger deal at that moment so it was sort of a middle path um but yeah so he this side deal, if it is in fact a side deal, and that's what we need to figure out.
24:42Is Aspiration doing this on behalf of the Clippers? Is it a way to pay Kawhi off the books? Or were they just doing what looks like a really stupid endorsement deal? Or a smart endorsement deal from the perspective of Kawhi Leonard. Right. Kawhi Leonard, yeah, why not take it? It's$28 million for what looks like a no-show kind of arrangement over four years. But I think that's what you got to solve here is there another explanation for why aspiration is doing this deal now this is a company that did do a lot of fraudulent stuff including some some funny dealings with influencers and other celebrities so maybe there are other explanations here it's also possible and this is just me speculating like that aspiration wanted to do this for the clippers without the clippers knowing it right that they were like oh they would love it if we did a deal with kawaii and we paid him more than he's worth because that would, you know, but the Clippers never asked for any of this.
25:39What Ballmer has said is, I made the introduction, right? I was an investor in aspiration. Kawhi Leonard's my player. I put the two together and they went off and made a deal that I didn't know about, that had no control over and I didn't know the terms. So that's what we got to sort through. Now, I should add, first of all, that Mr. Ballmer said that, look, I didn't do anything wrong right clippers are saying we didn't do anything wrong and kawai leonard saying saying the same thing i didn't do anything right and even adam silver when it came out in the press conference afterwards said look the burden of proof that something went wrong is on the league yes i mean i don't forgive me for using a it's like a perry mason case you know it's like okay You've got to prove that this actually happened, the bad dealings.
Read the full transcript
26:31Yeah. So he said basically the mere appearance of impropriety wouldn't be enough here. And so that is really the question. It's kind of like what is the – it's not a legal case in the sense of it's just up to the league enforcing its own rules. So what are – how much evidence do they need? What are they – what is the burden of proof? Is it beyond a reasonable doubt? Like this is all basically what – silver is going to have to look at what they come back with and make those choices. You know, it's not a court of law. It's it's a it's an NBA commissioner. Well, we've been talking a lot about what would happen to Steve Ballmer in that decision.
27:03But if this is found to be true, what would happen to Kawhi? Like, is there something that would happen to him? I mean, theoretically, they could void his contract, I think. I doubt that would be the outcome here. I think they'd want to punish the franchise and the owner. You know, that's just my guess. Our thanks to Ira Budwe for joining us. He's Bloomberg News global sports reporter. You can find his reporting on the terminal and online at Bloomberg.com. Coming up, we turn to F1 and a new big money partnership between Carlisle and the Oracle Red Bull Racing Team. For Damien Sassauer and Vanessa Bernomo, I'm Michael Barr.
27:38You are listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports and Bloomberg Radio around the world.
27:47This is Caroline Hyde. And I'm Ed Ludlow, inviting you to join us for Bloomberg Tech, a daily podcast focusing exclusively on technology, innovation and the future of business. Every weekday, we bring you the top headlines from the world's biggest tech companies. From finance to defence, AI to entertainment and from startups to the magnificent seven. We highlight the latest stories of the people and companies pushing the tech sector to new frontiers and the politics that shape global tech markets. We do this all every weekday, then bring you the most important conversations and analysis in our podcast.
28:20Search for Bloomberg Tech on YouTube, Apple, Spotify or anywhere else you listen. Join us every afternoon on your commute home and stay ahead of the tech news cycle. That's the Bloomberg Tech Podcast. I'm Caroline Hyde in New York. And I'm Ed Ludlow in San Francisco. Subscribe today wherever you get your podcasts. This is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Thank you for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports, where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barnes. I'm Damien Sassauer. And I'm Vanessa Perdomo. Carlisle recently announced a new partnership with Oracle Red Bull Racing, becoming its exclusive investment management partner.
29:03It is the first ever partnership between a Formula One racing team and a leading global private markets firm. And joining us now to talk more about the deal is Danny Berger. Danny! Hey, welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports. Thank you so much. Oh, my goodness. Now, you did an interview recently where you talked to Carlisle's CEO, and you also talked with the Oracle Red Bull Racing Team principal. That's right. Tell us about that. Well, Carlisle, for an undisclosed amount of money, but probably a very large sum of money, has become a sponsor of Red Bull Racing. Typically, when you think about the sponsors, a lot of tech companies, Oracle, for example, is one of the main sponsors of Red Bull, 1Password, a lot of tech companies.
29:49Rarely do you get capital coming from financial giants like Carlyle. But Carlyle nonetheless signed this deal. They became a title sponsor of them. So I went down to the F1 to interview both of them and basically ask one, why would you do this? Why would you spend so much money on something incredibly flashy? And just generally to ask Red Bull, hey, what's going on with the team? How are you thinking about 2026? And same goes for the Carlisle CEO, too. And Vanessa, Danny did that interview and we have a clip of that. Let's give a listen to it. The last 30 years, you've seen a remarkable development of private markets.
30:26Private markets are really the primary source of capital for many companies. As that capital continues to grow, the market has just evolved to a place where wealth, retail, the breadth of what we do globally is just evolved also. And this is just part of the natural evolution. While it might feel unique now, I think it's actually not revolutionary at all. It's really just quite evolutionary. And why move that way with Red Bull specifically? That was pretty easy. Everything about Oracle Red Bull Racing is about performance, execution, excellence. So that part was very easy to see and very easy to relate to as a firm.
31:09The sport, F1, is also global and growing dramatically, as we know, as our private markets. And so that all aligned. What made this really special was when Laurent and I spent time together, the team spent time together, and it was almost like this sort of very, I don't know, uniquely natural affinity where we all just became best friends really quickly. And so, hey, it's got to be fun, too. But it is about performance excellence, first and foremost. I was going to say, Laurent, given what Harvey is saying, that the finance world in general has been more interested in sport, more interested in F1.
31:42Have you been fielding a lot of calls before this partnership from Harvey's peers who wanted to get in like he did? You know, in reality, no. It felt very natural straight away with Carlisle, with Harvey. You know, it's this moment where you realize that the person you are talking with are the best at what they do in the world. And, you know, we feel we are quite good at what we do. And what we see with our partners is that we go and try to partner with companies that are the best at what they do. And we had a lot more points of connections. We had these performance obsessions. We have this data-driven approach in our very different business.
32:21But together with that quest for perfection in everything we are doing, it felt like a very, very natural connection. To be fair, Harvey, there have been some outspoken critics about the move for private capital to do sponsorships, to get invested in sports. Josh Easterly of Sixth Street said at a conference a couple of weeks ago, it's representative to him that firms are more concentrated on fine tuning their brand than on the returns themselves. What do you say to that criticism? Our business is exactly the way Laurent just described it. It's first and foremost, always about performance. Performance drives everything.
32:55If you have performance, you have success. Again, you think about everything they do at Oracle Red Bull Racing. It's all oriented around success. When he references data, we think about data. It's different data, but these are organizations driven around performance excellence. If you don't have performance, you don't have success. In terms of the partnership here, yeah, this is important to be able to reach a global audience. You mentioned sport before. There's a real desire in the world for people to come together around sport. And this is truly one of the fastest growing sports in the world.
33:29That's Bloomberg TV host Danny Berger speaking with Carlisle CEO Harvey Schwartz and Oracle Red Bull Racing's Laurent McKees. Danny, I'm curious. In your interview, you talked to Carlisle about them being forward facing and how that was kind of different for them. And this was a different opportunity. And we've seen private equity come into sports a lot. But it's a different way, right? This is sponsorship. This isn't investment necessarily, equity. So what did you gather from that part of the conversation? That is just spot on because to your point, usually when we think about private equity in sports, it's that they want to make money out of it.
34:04This is literally the opposite, right? Like they're throwing money at it. And it's a very different Carlyle and a different industry in general because usually you think private capital, it's this exclusive club. It's hard to get into. You have the biggest institutions in the world, be it pensions or sovereign wealth funds coming to them to buy their portfolios. Now something has changed. They want to sell it. They don't want it to be a product that's bought. They want it to be a product that's sold. And they're trying to sell, OK, maybe not everyday people, but everyday people who have lots of money.
34:34They're trying to sell it to high net worth individuals. They're hoping that 401ks will open up to private equity, too. So all of a sudden they're realizing it's not enough that this sovereign wealth fund in the Middle East knows who we are. We need more everyday people to know who we are. So when they're thinking about, OK, I've got extra money, usually I just put that in ETFs. Maybe instead I go to my wealth advisor and try to get into a Carlisle fund. So all of a sudden, to your point, they're really front facing. They're trying to show a more friendly and maybe more sporty face. And it's not just them doing it.
35:08Blue Owl, for example, they sponsor tennis players. They sponsor golf players. Apollo also sponsors golf players, too. So you're seeing this start to become a trend in the industry. Well, Danny, let's put some numbers around that. Oracle, who is Red Bull's main sponsor,$60 million a year, Vanessa. Can you believe that? And they've got Honda, they've got Ford, Visa, and that's just the tip of the surface. Now, you know, this is the business of sports, so let's talk about it, right? F1 just did a deal with Apple TV where they got their media rights up to$140 million a year over five years. So clearly there's something there, right?
35:39I mean, that's a huge increase. It's a huge bump up. But, you know, so Carlisle, David Rubenstein, I mean, these they know how to, you know, get around a deal table and they know what a good investment looks like. So they must see something here now. I think it's kind of key that they did this deal after Christian Horner left. Christian Horner left not because of controversy, but he left in a fog of controversy with accusations of sexual misconduct. And it'd be hard to imagine a scenario where even though that was investigated by the team and nothing came out of it, that you'd have a private capital giant like Carlisle be comfortable with investing in the team.
36:18And in Laurent Meckies, you have a team principal. I was there. I saw the two interact. You kind of got the feeling they were almost friends, even though they were so different. I mean, Harvey Schwartz cutting his teeth on Wall Street at one point being floated as the next CEO of Goldman Sachs. Meanwhile, this French engineering nerd, it's not exactly a combo that you would expect, but the two of them really got along. And they kind of love to say, look, completely different businesses, but we're obsessed with performance. We're obsessed with data. So you have this feeling that Carlyle is being really deliberate in how it puts its brand out there.
36:51And they were really deliberate in choosing Red Bull, which I should say, even though they're not leading the pack with F1 right now, they are getting closer with their driver Max Verstappen kind of wearing down the gap between them and the McLaren drivers. Well, you just took the words out of my mouth. They are fourth in the constructors now this year, right? I mean, behind, you know, obviously McLaren, but Mercedes and Ferrari as well. And Verstappen is now three in the driver's rankings, although that win in Austin obviously ranked them back up. He's now contesting again. I think he has enough chance.
37:18Yeah, he does. And obviously it was because of my interview with the team. Of course, of course, right. He gave him inspiration. Without question. So, I mean, so again, you know, there is a lot of value there, I guess, is the point. So, Carlisle actually sees that, Michael Barnaud. Yes, you are exactly right. So, when you're thinking about it, and after talking with them, do you see the link between Formula One and private equity? Do you see the value in this sponsorship? I think it's interesting because, okay, so people when they – I talked to people after this sponsorship, and they said, what a weird move from Carlisle to go after F1.
37:51They want to reach more people. Well, aren't F1 fans just the typical billionaire class and people they already have? F1 has changed so much. I myself am a huge F1 fan. I watch every single race, and I am a woman in my 30s. I am maybe not what you typically picture for the F1 fan, but I am increasingly becoming what the F1 fan looks like after the success of Drive to Survive on Netflix. The F1 fans are more female. They are younger. So it's a really interesting type of person that Carlisle is actually capturing here. And I think in that vein, they do see a unique opportunity because of the growing audience.
38:29And Damien, you mentioned Apple getting the rights to F1. There you go. A whole new audience, too, potentially coming in. It is a growing sport and a growing audience base. Well, Danny, I'll just give it to you right now. Riyadh, Singapore, Abu Dhabi, Dubai. I mean, the list goes on. Baku. The list goes on and on. So for Carlisle to penetrate some of these international financial markets, yeah, I get it. I see the benefit of it for sure. Now let's just see if they can bring it to the track, right? Michael Barr? Oh, see, you know what? I'm old. And you reminded me, you said, I'm a lady in my 30s.
39:08Well, I don't even want to know how old it is. Someone snowed on my head. But I remember when Jackie Stewart, and I know you're going to say, who the hell is that? No, Jackie Stewart, man, one of the greatest racing drivers of all time. That's right. And he had a car that had six wheels on it. He really did. It was like two, four in the front, and then there was the two in the back. That's how far I go, which brings me to how far has F1 changed since old man Barr got into it? Well, do you want to talk about the car or the business? I mean, did Harvey Schwartz promise us a team kit? Michael Barr could use a nice little team kit to wear to the office.
39:52I'm sure we could arrange that. They would be so thrilled if you wore a Red Bull hat that said Carlisle on the sideline. I think they would absolutely love that. The sport has changed so much. You could talk about the audience, the money behind it with this, with other investments in there, with the type of audience, but also the cars themselves. They have changed so much and they change every year. And I think one thing that they've really concentrated on is the safety of the car. They now have these halos around it to make sure if the car rolls over, the driver is safe. Literally every single aspect of this has changed.
40:21And I think one of the biggest changes, again, is the American audience. We had, again, Austin. There's Miami. There's Vegas, which is an insane race and is literally the most American thing you could think of because of the spectacle behind it. But, yeah, literally every aspect of the sport is changing and changing fast. Danny, you are a friend of the show. Happily. And you can come back anytime you want. Michael, again, I mean it. I'm honored. Thank you so much. Come back and help us, Danny, please. Yes. Save us for Michael. I need to make some money. Our thanks to Danny Berger for joining us.
40:55And that does it for this edition of the Bloomberg Business of Sports. For Damian Sassauer and Vanessa Perdomo, I'm Michael Barr. Tune in again next week for the latest on the stories moving big old money in the world of sports. And don't forget to catch our podcast on all of your podcast platforms. You are listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world.
41:26This is Scarlett Fu. And I'm Paul Sweeney, inviting you to join us for the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Every day, we harness the power of Bloomberg Intelligence to bring you deep dives into the companies that are moving markets from publicly traded companies like Apple to those that are privately owned but known by everyone on Earth like OpenAI. Now, I helped to build Bloomberg Intelligence to what it is today, Scarlett. And now our analysts are the best in the world, covering more than 2 ,000 global companies. That is your legacy, Paul. And we speak to those in-house experts every day. They are Bloomberg's go-to authorities on sectors, companies, and legal processes.
41:58And we do it all live each weekday, then bring you the best conversations in our daily podcast. So be sure to search for Bloomberg Intelligence on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or anywhere else you listen. Listen in the afternoons on your way home from work to catch up on the market news you missed during the business day. That is the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. I'm Scarlett Fu. And I'm Paul Sweeney. Subscribe today, wherever you get your podcasts. you
From the publisher
Join hosts Michael Barr, Damian Sassower and Vanessa Perdomo for a look at some of the latest headlines and stories in the business of sports.
Professional basketball player Terry Rozier told a friend in 2023 that he planned to take himself out of a game early with a minor injury. The friend, Deniro Laster, used the tip to place more than $200,000 in bets predicting Rozier would fall short of his usual point total.
By the next morning, federal prosecutors say, the two men were counting their winnings together in Rozier’s home. The athlete, who was a guard for the National Basketball Association’s Charlotte Hornets at the time, played just nine minutes against the New Orleans Pelicans and checked out.
That incident, described in a federal indictment unsealed on Thursday in Brooklyn, now sits at the center of one of the most sweeping sports gambling cases ever brought by the US Justice Department — one that stretches from locker rooms to underground poker clubs controlled by New York’s biggest mafia families.
Rozier, now with the NBA’s Miami Heat, and Portland Trail Blazers head coach Chauncey Billups were arrested Thursday morning and charged as part of two separate criminal schemes related to illegal sports betting, federal prosecutors said.
Soon after the arrests, Rozier and Billups were placed on immediate leave from their teams.
FBI Director Kash Patel and Brooklyn federal prosecutors said at least 30 people were arrested across 11 states, including current and former NBA players and coaches.
On this episode, hear from:
- Bloomberg News senior reporter Myles Miller for more on the massive NBA gambling scandal
- Bloomberg News global business of sports reporter Ira Boudway on another NBA controversy in which the LA Clippers might have found ways to circumvent the league's salary cap rules
- Bloomberg TV anchor Dani Burger for a portion of her conversation with Carlyle CEO Harvey Schwartz and Oracle Red Bull Racing Team Principal Laurent Mekies on their new partnership
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
