Knicks-Spurs Finals Clash Elevates Jalen Brunson to NYC Royalty

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1:47in spending power. The nature of baseball is it is worldwide and it is global. I'm very happy for the WNBA and how the NBA has embraced them. Sportsbooks are not going anywhere and sports betting is only growing. We have a super team running this league and this league is here and it's here to stay. Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Bond. I'm Vanessa Perdomo Maglione. Let's go Gets! Let's go Gets! Let's go Gets! Randall Williams is out covering the NBA Finals this week, so he wasn't able to join us in the studio.

2:28But hey, hey, hey, wait a minute. He was able to make some time to join us this week to give us a taste of what it has been like on the ground, which is where he is in his travels on the road for the NBA Finals. Randall Williams, U.S. Sports Business Senior Reporter. Welcome back to the Bloomberg Business of Sports as a guest this time. As always, thank you for having me, Mr. Brock. Back on the other side of the mic. Yeah, I know, man. There's so many questions I want to bring up, man, with the NBA. But I'm going to start with what this means for the league itself. Because, you know, the NBA, it looks like, you know, you got a lot of interest, obviously especially in New York about what's happening when the finals between the Knicks and the Spurs talk to us about that let me tell you the difference in energy between the previous two years and this year is huge the league office and the league personnel that I'm regularly around when I'm walking around the Spurs arena or even in the day before their energy is just higher and I think it's because the NBA is hot right now whether you look at the ratings across multiple rounds of the playoffs, whether that be the conference semifinals, the conference finals, I expect the NBA finals game one will probably average 17 million viewers or 16 million viewers.

3:54They're doing very, very well. They have other issues outside of the playoffs to handle, but I think the energy is extremely, extremely high. Do you think that, you know, it's interesting that you said that the league, you know, officials are even on a different energy level. I mean, before we talk a little bit more about that i want you to set the tone for us what was it like in san antonio being on the ground and i really want to know how quiet i got in the arena when the nicks won game one so i'll go back even further in boston the traffic was so bad in boston that i got in an uber and i was maybe five minutes away and was being lazy and decided that uh i'd take an uber to the arena and i had to get out and walk 25 minutes to TD Garden.

4:39In Oklahoma City, there was increased fan presence around the arena, but because of the fact that the Spurs arena isn't downtown, there was a lot of fans outside, but it wasn't as hyped up as I expected it to be. And so as the game went on, I think the Go Spurs, Go chant was loud, but also there was a lot of Knicks fans in there. And, you know, the game went on different runs, but by the end of the game, it was not quiet. It was go, Nick's go all night long. There are so many angles I want to talk to you about. Here's one, and this is the thing that stuck in my head, and we did a story on this.

5:16New York Knicks fans, if you have a season ticket, you can resell it. Don't go to that game. Do not go to that game. Well, here's the problem. It's like a lot, like you said, a lot of people are saying, okay i'll resell i'm going to keep it because this is a once in a lifetime thing but i got to tell you if i got a season ticket and i could sell this thing for 72 000 that 50 inch flat screen tv is looking mighty fine right now randall i'm just saying that if it was me and you said 72 that's high end let's talk 25 20 that works maybe 30 or 10 or 15 like though we haven't seen an NBA Finals game at Madison Square Garden in a very, very long time.

6:05I want to say we haven't seen one in this millennium. And with that in mind, I think it's still a legendary venue. You think about all the things that have occurred at MSG since, without the Knicks being in the finals, there have been dozens of boxing events, UFC events, concerts, and so many other events that have been able to keep the exposure and the aura of Madison Square Garden alive. But let's be honest here. What keeps Madison Square Garden alive is the Knicks. And now that they are at the highest point of NBA basketball, there are people who either want to sell for an extreme price or keep their tickets and experience a once-in-a-lifetime event that probably isn't once-in-a-lifetime.

6:51That probably isn't once-in-a-lifetime. Interesting. Okay, well, a lot's been made of ticket prices, obviously, in New York City over the last couple of months with the Knicks tickets and obviously also World Cup tickets in New York are extremely expensive. Is this just a New York thing or why do you think people are so surprised about it? I'm not, personally. I'm not surprised that these ticket prices are so high. No, I'm not surprised either, but it definitely has to do, it would have been expensive nonetheless, because it's been so long since the Knicks have been to the finals. It absolutely helps that Victor Wambanyama and the Spurs are in it.

7:28Like, 1B is 7-4. You think about the attractions of the next generation of players, like, who do you really want to go see? That is, let's say, 28 and younger. I would say Anthony Edwards. You would say Victor Wambanyama. Then you might throw a couple more in there, But those two names, Anthony Edwards and Victor Wambinyama, are at the top of the list. And so if you get to see Victor Wambinyama at 22 years old at Madison Square Garden against a Knicks team that is hotter than any Knicks team has ever been, of course tickets are going to go for$5 ,000,$6 ,000,$7 ,000,$8 ,000,$9 ,000, and$10 ,000 for the Nosebleeds.

8:03Well, it's an interesting thing that you said that. So do you think this finals is the most ideal that the NBA could have imagined for this year? I think it's forward-looking, yes. You couldn't imagine the NBA Finals in terms of a stardom, a star who's young, who has so many years ahead of him. Now, obviously, every, I think, sporting organization in the world dreams of a New York-Los Angeles championship game. We got one in the MLB a couple years ago. But everyone, so long as the stars are there, if it's LeBron and Luka versus Jalen Brunson and Cat, and LeBron has the potential to retire, that game might have 40 million watchers in his last game, whether that be a game four, five, six, or seven.

8:49So I think ultimately if LeBron's last game was in the NBA Finals, similar to when MJ's last game before the Wizards' stunt was in game six in 98, it would have a huge effect too. But this is the best case scenario for the forward-looking business plan. We're talking with Randall Williams, U.S. Sports Business Senior Reporter. Ordinarily, of course, Randall would be a regular here on the show, but he went all elite because now he is a guest because he's covering the NBA Finals. Again, there are so many angles to this. I want to talk about the Knicks. They're auctioning two Celebrity Row seats for Monday night's Game 3 at the Garden when the NBA Finals return to New York, and the seats are right off center court.

9:35We're talking like celebrities like Tracy Morgan and Timothy Chalamet, who usually right alongside there. And you, of course, man, I might see you in those seats, too. Trust and believe I will be in the third level of being celebrity role. I mean, you know, this is so much the hype is going. It's like I really that is a great idea for the Knicks to do this auction. let me say that i do believe that game three game four and really potentially game six will be probably the most star-studded games in nba history like you're talking about the president is going to be there for better or for worse because he's going to make everyone's uh experience getting in and out of the game probably hellish it's just what happens when that federal official comes to the game and they have the secret service around.

10:28But beyond President Trump, who knows who could show up? What if Jay-Z and Beyonce show up? What if Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey show up? Like, you have no idea. Yes, there will be Knicks loyalist fans. You just named a couple, Ben Stiller, Tracy Morgan, Timothy Chalamet. But beyond that, we don't know who's going to be there. And it's going to be, I think it's going to look like the solar system in terms of the stardom that's going to be there. I love that analogy. So in your conversations with people, Randall, have you talked to anyone about, you know, the security around the Garden, especially if President Trump's going to be there?

11:03What do they have to do in order to get the Garden ready to host the finals? You're going to need to pull every single New York state police officer down to the Garden in order for things to be stable. And I've been to several events that President Trump has been to, including multiple UFC fights in the U.S. Open final as well. and what happens is that when he comes in at the UFC fights, he normally comes in for the main card. And so that's well after a good portion of fans have entered the arena, specifically at MSG. But for the US Open, you had fans lining up outside of the venue. So what does that mean for media?

11:38Do they tell people you have to wait? What time does President Trump arrive? I don't know how much information fans and media and the NBA alike will receive in terms of his arrival just from a security perspective. If everyone knows what time he arrives, does that make the arena secure? I don't know. But it's a legitimate question that I think everyone's going to wonder come Monday. Randall, you had said that, you know, Adam Silver has all these other things to figure out. And, you know, outside of the finals, there are other concerns for the NBA. What has he had to, you know, address in the postgame, you know, press conferences?

12:17and what else are they addressing other than, you know, being excited? Sure. So you think about the tanking dilemma that has happened. The NBA has never had more teams tanking than they did this year. And that's in large part because this rookie class for the upcoming NBA draft is probably one of the best in the last two decades, on paper at least. And so teams are looking at that and saying it's better for us to lose. And also you have fans saying, I agree with it. We should chalk this whole season and lose every game. But also that doesn't create a good product when you're watching it. And you have to remember these broadcast agreements are worth$76 billion over the course of 11 years.

12:55And that's how these teams make their money. So you can't put out a product where the best players aren't playing every night. That's one. Number two is the ongoing investigation into Los Angeles Clippers owner allegedly circumventing the cap system. That investigation has been going on for almost a year now. Adam Silver said he expects it to close soon. And so those two main things are the biggest dilemmas for the NBA. But they're so high right now that I think we won't touch on them again until the NBA draft or maybe even free agency. Our thanks to our friend Randall Williams, U.S. Sports Business Senior Reporter.

13:33He should be back on this side of the mic next week. That is straight ahead on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. I'm Michael Barr with Vanessa Perdomo-Maglione and Randall Williams. You are listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports, Bloomberg Radio around the world. Imagine home. The smell of coffee, the sound of a lawnmower, the sun's warmth on your face. Free to be yourself, surrounded by love that helps you grow. This is a place to call home. That's an American dream we all deserve. But in 50 % of U.S. states, you could legally be denied housing if you are LGBTQ+. Get the facts and hear real stories at lovehasnolabels.com.

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16:19This is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Bard. I'm Vanessa Perdomo-Megleone. Randa Williams is out this week covering the NBA Finals on the ground and speaking of the NBA finals we are sticking with that because there is nothing more exciting in sports right now. New York has become the sports city of the summer with the finals and World Cup set to potentially overlap. The eyes of the industry are on the Big Apple. Here to talk to us about the impact of the Knicks and what they're having on this city of New York is Joe Pirello.

17:00He is the founder and CEO of Props and he was the first chief marketing officer of New York City. Hello, sir. Welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports. Thank you guys for having me. It's good to be here. It's good to be in the building. You are the founder and CEO of Props. Tell us about that, sir. Props is a performance-based creator marketing platform. So essentially, we have transformed what you might think of as influencer marketing into what marketers call a performance channel. And what that means is essentially you can measure the results of creator marketing in a way that a CFO would care about the results.

17:45And that's essentially the essence of our company is we conceived influencer marketing so that a CFO would embrace it. Joe, you come from, you know, really traditional lanes. Obviously, you work with the Yankees and you were the first chief marketing officer of New York City. How does all of that go into the creator marketing and how you understood, you know, social media and trying to, like you said, how do CFOs now understand the way marketing has changed? Yeah, that's a great question. So, you know, I started understanding the advertising business, specifically direct response marketing or direct marketing, right, which used to live in the world of boring direct mail.

18:35Okay. And late night television where you could measure the results, where TV ads sort of broadly speaking, you could measure the results over a year, say, right, or six months. And what social media marketing is today, it's direct response marketing on steroids because of how sophisticated the platforms like Meta and Google and TikTok are at reaching people and understanding who they are. That's one thing. The second thing is you can, you know, we're all on digital devices. There are recording technology in every single digital device, you know, whether you like it or not. And so we can track people's behavior.

19:23and based on tracking people's behavior and who they are and who they're connected to, direct response marketing is an extraordinarily powerful way to reach people. So you asked how I got started in this. I understood advertising. I understood direct response marketing. And now I'm applying that to the world of creators. And the difference in the world of creators is that people are responding to other people rather than responding to an ad. And that's the essential difference between advertising and creator marketing. And it's based on essentially three principles, I would say. The first is that people trust people more than they trust brands or institutions, right?

20:14And this has been happening since 1967 about Pew Research has a really great study on the decline of trust in brands and institutions. So people trust people more than they trust brands. The second is that people respond to stories more than they respond to ads, which is why you're in business, right? Because you're telling stories here. Thank goodness, yes. Thank goodness. And the third thing is that, and this is where the performance marketing comes in, is that the story is only the beginning. Like if you want to really drive a business result, you've got to create a system that goes all the way through what we call the funnel, which is awareness, consideration, trial, then repeat.

21:01So the story is only the beginning of that process. So when you combine the exceptional targeting and accountability of paid media, paid social media, with the humanity of creators, you essentially transform the advertising business into something that people actually want to engage with, and it performs exceptionally well. And that's what we've done in my background in direct marketing and advertising and sports, because people care about sports more than they care about brands, all sort of lended itself to developing this. We're talking with Joe Pirello, founder and CEO of Props. And you served as the vice president of business development for the New York Yankees.

21:53And you worked directly under George Steinbrenner. I did. What was that like? It was an exceptional experience. I learned so much about, I would condense it down to the boss knows how to win. And that's really all he was cared about. That's all he cared about. He cared, of course, about his image and his reputation in New York City. But the number one thing that he cared about was winning. and if he wasn't winning he was not happy and nor were anyone around anyone could be right so if you were around him and you were and he was not winning he was unhappy and if you were around him and the yankees were winning you know he was less unhappy i would say okay and then you know I was with him when we won the World Series in Atlanta in 1997.

22:57And I've never seen a man happier. And it was such a joy to be around the boss who, you know, was tough on everyone. Right. I would say he was tough, but fair. George was tough, but fair. And so you worked under a guy who expected a lot from you, right? Held you to account, had your back if you took a big swing and missed, and would really get on you if you did something stupid, right? So he would be all over you on the details, but if you really tried hard and it didn't work out, he had your back if you were protecting the team. So seeing him in 1997 after winning and beating the Braves in Atlanta, which was so much fun, was a highlight of my career.

23:52You know, we drank scotch together. That was so much fun. That's amazing. What a story. So I want to talk a little more about that. Obviously, I mean, it's been a while since the Yankees have been able to win. why is that culture not persisted do you think the winning culture or has it and we just haven't seen the winner you know well i wouldn't call myself a baseball operations expert i i consider myself talented in the world of sports business i couldn't be the general manager of a team I could tell you that the organization has the same desire to win that existed in past generations. Certainly the fans have the same expectations.

24:43I think the competitive nature of the league has changed to some degree. I think there are smarter people that are now have now running baseball operations. And the good news is baseball is still very competitive, although I think, you know, unless there is some sort of salary cap, you know, the big market teams are probably still going to dominate and there'll be some outliers. but I know you know the players union is probably not interested in this but I think for the long haul some sort of salary guideline is the right thing to create parody like the NFL has done so successfully. Well that's what's really going to be the big conversation in the offseason right or as they go through this the next CBA from your perspective from being in those conversations beforehand and knowing the business of baseball, like you were saying, how big of a fight is this going to be?

25:52I mean, I don't know, but I know what I read in the newspaper. And on the surface, it seems like the revenue share offer is exceptional. And I don't know if it's just I'm reading these headlines, but what I heard was salary cap plus half of the money, half of the revenue. That's what I heard. Now, I don't know the details. I don't know the fine print. So I don't know. And I don't have the models to project. Is that going to make more money for us or less? So the devil's in the details here. But that seems like a great opportunity for players to participate in some of the profits of baseball. Now, the other side is the team valuations are going to skyrocket because the investor class will see that expenses are capped.

26:57And when expenses are capped, you can predict your profits. Yeah, you have to share that. So the team valuations, I think all team valuations, will go up a lot. And it doesn't sound like their offer has accounted for that part of the equation yet. So, you know, my prediction is the union's going to say no.

27:22I think, yeah, they've dropped some hints already. Knock around and leave on that. We're talking with Joe Pirello, founder and CEO of Props. And which brings me to the next point when you talk about baseball being big. What did George Steinbrenner think about the crosstown rivals, the New York Mets? Because there was the one time where the Yankees and the Mets were in the World Series. I'm just curious, what did George Steinbrenner think about that? I mean, he thought about the opponent in the same way, no matter who the opponent was. I think playing the crosstown rival was more poignant, right?

28:09Not just the boss, but everyone in the organization. You know, we want to beat everyone that we're playing, and we want to beat the Mets slightly more, if you could. But, you know, the boss just wants to win. He just wanted to win. And that it was the Mets made him want to win, you know, a little bit more. But, you know, you're measuring this on a scale where his desire to win is really high. You know, and against the Mets, it's like, okay, 10 % higher. But he just wants to win. He just wanted to win. We've talked about the perennial champions of New York, the Yankees, but we'll stick with Joe Pirello to speak about New York's potential next champion, the Knicks.

28:55Stay with us. More with Joe Pirello, the founder and CEO of Props, coming up. That is straight ahead on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. I'm Michael Barr with Vanessa Perdomo-Maglione. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports, Bloomberg Radio around the world.

29:13brought to you by capital one as a founding partner of i heart women's sports capital one is here to bring you closer to the athletes and teams you care about and with checking accounts that have no fees or minimums capital one is here to handle your banking needs too just ask the capital one bank guy it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way capital one what's in your wallet. Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank for details. Capital One and a member FDIC. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Hey, what are you listening to? Oh, I love this trend. I'm listening to Apple Card affirmations on my new AirPods Pro 3.