MLB Pitchers Charged in a New Betting Scheme; Serena Williams at the American Business Forum

0:28This message is brought to you by AppleCard. show on her. The next generation of players really grew up with tech and believe in tech. Your face is your ticket. Your face is your wallet. Your face is your access to a club. These are such iconic and important buildings for businesses, for fans. COVID was one of the best things that ever happened to golf. The NFL is a bulletproof business. Racing's unique because there is absolutely no reason why we can't compete with the guys. Come on, is pro pickleball real? Are people really going to tune into this? If you're playing moneyball with a huge bag of money, you're going to be really, really good.

0:59Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Hello, this is the Bloomberg Business of Sports, where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr. I'm Damian Sassauer. And I'm Vanessa Perdomo. Coming up on the show, we'll hear from tennis superstar Serena Williams. She was speaking with Bloomberg TV anchor Danny Berger at the American Business Forum in Miami recently about her business interests off the court. The new modern athlete, if you think about it, the modern athlete, if they're only playing their sport, then now that's frowned upon. So I love seeing the difference of how it started versus how, you know, people look at sport as an athlete now.

1:44We'll hear a little bit of their conversation about how Serena is channeling her competitive spirit into investing. All that and more is on the way on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. But first, we've got another big betting scandal, this time involving two big league pitchers. Joining us to discuss the latest is Bloomberg U.S. sports business reporter Randall Williams. Randall, welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports. Thank you for having me. Man, there's a lot of topics to talk about, but let's start with the elephant in the room, and that involves the MLB pitchers. They've been charged in a gambling probe.

2:20Let's start off with that. this is very severe yeah it's i mean the criminal sin the cardinal sin of all the sports now is betting on it and the fact that these guys are millionaires betting for thousands it just never ceases to amaze me the the fact that they're willing to sacrifice their entire careers and relatively young guys as well it isn't something where it's like you know these are failed careers they had their entire careers ahead of them and now it doesn't look like it anymore to cleveland Guardian pitchers Luis Ortiz and Emmanuel Klasse say they were charged with fraud for allegedly manipulating their pitches in Major League Baseball games Vanessa.

3:00It's just it's really obviously crazy because after we just saw the NBA scandal just happen and this they're so close together these two indictments. Rino what does that say I mean does that then put now a lot more pressure that these two things happen so close together? I think it puts both leagues under the microscope I think of the sports that you can bet on baseball and basketball are the ones that you can manipulate the most easy just because of the fact that I mean in Jonte Porter's case you remember he was like a 10th to 15th man on the on the bench and so the lines that he was being bet on were very easily he could just check in and check out of the game the same thing with some of the allegations with Terry Rozier and others as well and in baseball like they're literally betting on balls and strikes.

3:44And so you would think, if you're watching the game, you don't think anything of it, but the fact that they made allegedly$450 ,000 off of these things. And in the NBA case, it was millions of dollars that was going on and around. It's crazy. Randall, I mean, really, what worse could go wrong for Cleveland fans? I mean, the Browns just lost to the Jets. I mean, we know the Guardians, formerly the Indians, were the butt of Major League Baseball, Bob Uker-Lore. And, you know, the Cavaliers aren't getting by the Knicks. And here's my question for you. Rozier and Phillips, Chauncey Billups, who were also accused from the NBA, they denied wrongdoing.

4:19Now you've got Klasse and Ortiz also denying wrongdoing. Have we seen any of the government's evidence to support their case against these players? Or, I mean, speculating here, but perhaps they're relying on some false testimony from some Costa Nostra representative. I'm just speculating here, but I mean, how reliable is all this? Let's start with the NBA. There's 30 plus people involved. And so we'll see what happens when, you know, this, when it occurs in court on the MLB side, I read the entire case and they have texts. They have exchanges from when the pitchers were on the mound and off the mound.

4:53And so if you're asking me my opinion, the pitchers are done. I mean, it's, it's very damning evidence that is in the federal indictment. And with that in mind, I think the NBA one, I think we'll have to see a little bit more, But I mean, the way that FBI director Cash Patel came to the podium and all of these little catchphrases that they're using in celebration of this. I mean, I think you don't really roll out the red carpet that way unless you're ready for a show. And so who knows when all of these cases will hit the courts. But when they do, we'll be reporting on it. The text during the game.

5:28That's the craziest part. Right after. Right after. So he there's a portion in the indictment where he attempted to throw a ball and it went straight into the dirt. And if you're hearing this, I'm laughing because of the fact that when he threw the ball straight into the dirt, the batter swung at it. And so the person that he was communicating with texted him. And I think they said like it was maybe it was like a cat gif that was him crying, a cat gif of crying emoji or something like that. But with that in mind, he went to the locker room and texted him. And they were both sort of sad about the fact that they did not cash in.

6:00So that communication there, I don't know how these pitchers can beat it. I mean, doesn't this just say that prop bets need to be really regulated? Like Adam Silver said after the NBA scandal had happened, we need to regulate prop bets in general. Should prop bets just go away? I think it depends on the prop bets. In college football in New York, you can't bet on players at all. If you wanted to bet on yards for Arch Manning, it does not exist. In the NBA and the NFL, you can bet on, in the MLB, you can bet on a wide portion of things. I don't know how the leagues are going to talk to the sports books and say, hey, this needs to go away, that needs to go away.

6:46Because the sports books are in the business of making money too. And nine times out of ten, they want people to gamble. Randall, a House committee says that it is going to bring in Commissioner Adam Silver about the league's proliferation of sports betting, how the league's handling it. And I think what they're trying to do is to get the NBA code of conduct modified. And my question for you is, what the heck is that going to do? I mean, how would they modify the code of conduct, do players even listen to the code of conduct, and will it deter future infractions? I'm not so sure. I think that all of the agencies, the NBPA, the NBA, they discourage betting amongst the players.

7:25I'm sure that there are courses that they take or lectures that they sit through. And yet it still happens probably because they think they can get away with it. Now, like I said, when I started this, which is that these guys make millions and millions and millions of dollars. You think about it from like, let's just say Victor Wambinama was involved in one of these. He is not. But his rookie contract is like$56 million. There's no amount of money that he's going to make on betting that would not get flagged. So any additional cash that they make is just sort of silly. Well, Randall, let me ask you this.

7:57I mean, what if they do find Chauncey Billups guilty? If they find Ortiz and Casse guilty? I mean, can the NBA or the Major League Baseball, can they reclaim some of their contract that's already been paid? Can they, you know, counter sue them and get, you know, some sort of monetary benefit from that? I mean, is there any risk there? I'd be interested to see if they would take that approach. But my gut tells me that if they were convicted of this and the NBA would just let the NBA and MLB would just let the feds deal with it and then just push it away. Because the more that you try to recoup some of this, I'm not sure what they have to gain from these things.

8:37Like you would rather just push both of all the people who are allegedly involved as far into the corner so that they're out of sight rather than being like, no, we want our thousands of dollars back when you have billions coming in from a media deal. You see what I'm saying? They want to wash their hands of it. Right, exactly. I mean, I guess we'll know if Klasse doesn't come back from his vacation in the Dominican Republic, right? I mean, then we'll know what he would know. But I'm just kidding. I mean, but like that, isn't that a real risk that some of these players are going to say, oh, I was wrongfully accused and, you know, I'm not coming back to the United States because, you know, they're going to take them.

9:08I mean, you know, how are they going to get any sort of, you know, I guess, I guess how are you going to kind of find enough evidence to really hold these players feet to the fire? I think there's more than enough evidence in the indictment for both of the pitchers. I think the text exchanges that are in there are just damning. I think that's more of a question, right? It's more of a question like if it was just the NBA and MLB investigations and then they were banned, that would be one thing. And then the players would be able to say more on it. But then the federal government gets involved in an entirely different story.

9:42By the way, this blew me away. You want an idea on how college sports has changed. Juju Watkins, she's with the University of Southern California, women's basketball superstar. She has bought a minority stake in the NWSL's Boston legacy. You would never hear anything like that years ago back when Woody Hayes or whoever was coaching football or any kind of sports. Yeah, it doesn't necessarily surprise me because Juju Watkins has a great team in clutch sports surrounding her. But I believe that she's the first college athlete to ever have a sports team ownership. And with that in mind, I mean, look, this is all powered by endorsements.

10:31And she's managed her money very well so that this opportunity could come about. And it's crazy. I mean, people were really interested in the story. I think it's one of the most read stories I've ever had at Bloomberg. That's the interesting thing that I remember you saying about why do you think it was? Is it the juju of it all? Is it the fact that it is, like Michael said, this unbelievable thought that a college player could own a team? Yes. And I think I have fabulous editors. No, I think I think that there is an interest in college sports ownership, period. I mean, if you can have enough money to invest in a sports franchise, people don't think of it that way.

11:09Like, oh, yeah, they're in college, they're kids. But then when you talk about how much money that some of these people are making, especially on like the women's basketball side of things, I think that it's shocking that the first person wasn't Caitlin Clark. And if it was not a woman at all, then you would have your first guess probably would have been Shador Sanders or Arch Manning or any of the college football players who have been incredibly popular. Your last guess or maybe not last guess, but you would not have guessed Juju Watkins first. And with that in mind, I mean, she's done, like I said, incredibly well.

11:38She has multiple brand deals with Nike and so many others that are within the story. I mean, she has so many that I can't remember them all off the top of my head. And now she is an NWSL Boston Legacy FC owner. So congrats to Juju. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty unbelievable. I'm sure we're going to hear, you know, more examples of this happening. Right, Michael Barr? I mean, college players, I mean, they are deep pocketed now for sure. Oh, yeah. I think potentially, but it depends on, you have to have an ownership group that wants to do this to begin with. And with that in mind, you look at how much WNBA teams are going for and I don't even know if the rules will allow that.

12:18Let's say you're a basketball player, you're a WNBA player, and you want to, or excuse me, a college basketball player. The rules might not allow that. This is a very specific case of NWSL that would allow it. And from the college football side of things, it would be the exact same things. What actually can you buy with your money in college that is not going to violate any of the leagues that you're trying to get into their rules. The reality is what should be bought into and the assets that are going to be valuable are the NWSL and maybe women's volleyball, and they wouldn't really look for college football players as an owner.

12:53Exactly, exactly. So congrats to Juju again. Our thanks to Bloomberg U.S. sports business reporter Randall Williams for joining us again. Up next, we turn to sailing and talk to Red Bull Italy Sale GP Team Chairman and Co-Owner Gianluca Passi de Proposal. For Damian Sassauer and Vanessa Berdomo, I'm Michael Barr. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports, Bloomberg Radio around the world.

13:34earning daily cash on just about anything, like a slice of pizza from your local pizza place or a latte from the corner coffee shop. Apply for Apple Card and the Wallet app to see your credit limit offer in minutes. Subject to credit approval, Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at applecard.com. This is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr. I'm Damian Sassauer. And I'm Vanessa Perdomo. Let's talk sailing. The SailGP season is winding down this month and joining us now to talk about the sport and the big money going into it to Red Bull Italy SailGP team chairman and co-owner Gianluca Pasi del Proposlo.

14:25And his team is just wrapping up its first season. Gianluca, hello my man. And welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports. Thank you so much for having me here today. This is, I love this, man. This is, here's why Larry Ellison co-founded the latest group which you guys are with, with SailGP. Because the America's Cup only goes every four years. This is every year. Correct. So, obviously, we've been very lucky to be in a sport that has such a deep history. You have to consider that the American Cup is the third oldest sport competition in the world after the Olympics and Royal Ascot. 176 years of history.

15:25but the issue there and what Larry Ellison understood and capitalized on was that the Americans Cup is every four years in the middle there was nothing else in terms of sailing competition and so there were like millions of people across the world incredibly passionate about sailing they were left basically orphans after each American's Cup. And it was not only that what Mr. Ellison understood. It was also the fact that he could start a new league, getting the best ideas from all the sports leagues out there. and that's how the project started in 2019 together with Russell Coates and now we're only in the fifth season but we're very excited for the future of this league.

16:32And Vanessa, you know, you got a name like Larry Ellison, co-founder of Oracle. You know this is going to be a success. Oh, you know, you know, and he's put a lot of passion and a lot of money into this because like you said, he knows that there's this audience there that's fervent for something every year. So you said this is the fifth season, but you guys are in your first season, the Italian team. Tell me how it's been coming into this, how you're working with Jimmy, and how you really got into this sailing venture for yourself. Absolutely. So a dear friend of mine for 20 years, Assia Grazioli, reached out to me.

17:10Both Assia and I, we are investors. which have our own fund. But she had an amazing background in sports. She's been on the board of Juventus for nine years. And when she started her fund, Muse Capital, she started investing in women's sports. And she reached out to me. This was about two years ago. She told me about this league. And there is a background story between us because we've been friends, as I said, many, many years, but only about three years ago, she was visiting my hometown Treviso in Italy. I was not there, but it was like saying hi to my parents. And the office of my father, there was a picture on the wall with him on a sailing boat, a black and white picture from many years before.

18:16And she asked, what's this picture about? Well, my father goes, well, this picture, it's me in the first wheat bread race, race around the world, 1973. And she looked at him and said, well, my father also did the first with bread race in 1970. It ended up that our two fathers were on the same boat, but in two different legs of the race. Wow. So my father did Portsmouth to Cape Town. Just to give a context, it was like 43 days of sailing without touching lens. It was like unthinkable nowadays and without many instruments. Her father, if I'm not wrong, she did like Rio de Janeiro to Sydney. And so they never met.

19:18We basically had them meet last year at SailGP where we didn't have yet the team. But it was an incredible connection. And so that was the first spark. she called me to invest in the US team when Mark Lazzari with Avenue Capital decided to buy the team my comment was that I was interested in the league at the same time I would have loved to see if Larry Ellison and Russell Coots basically were going to launch an Italian team Well, Gianluca, let me just chime in here. We keep mentioning Larry Ellison, and we keep mentioning people like Mark Lassery, but I'm going to go even further. I mean, the bonds flying ruse, Hugh Jackman and Ryan Reynolds.

20:15Killian Mbappe, I believe, is an owner of the French team. Sebastian Vettel, the German team. I think Anne Hathaway is somehow involved with you and the Italian team. I mean, these aren't just nobodies, right? So it's commanding the attention of real investors and real people alike. And, you know, I just have to ask your question, you know, when you're thinking about the growth of the league, right? And the league right now has 12 teams, you know, 12 countries effectively represented. And I don't know how many races there are, but I mean, it's pretty much, you know, been going on all year. We're building to Abu Dhabi at the end of November.

20:46Talk to us about the excitement around this final match. I mean, how many teams are left in it? Who are you, you know, who do you think is going to win the league this year? I mean, it's pretty unbelievable. Yeah, it's pretty tight. There are like three teams, UK team, New Zealand team, and Australian team. The black foils. Yeah. They are like the Spanish team are just a little bit behind. But it's going to be a tight like finish like last race of the year. So what happens? You have the Saturday where all 12 teams participate, but then only three teams? Well, basically, there are like four races on Saturday and then four races Sunday.

21:30Like, also very important to say is a very short format. So it's 15 minutes per race back to back. And then on Sunday, there is the final. In particular, in Abu Dhabi, there's going to be the season final with the last three teams. And they're going to compete for the big prize that is$2 million. Wow, so that grand final race is a winner-take-all between three teams, if I'm not mistaken. Correct. I mean, that is exciting stuff, yeah? I mean, unbelievable. And, yeah, to basically add to what you just said, this concentration also of talent from entertainment, from sports, again, it was because when you look at this league, there are few characteristics that make it very unique.

22:20and, first of all, very centered on making the team profitable in the short term, which you guys know very well. It's a big challenge for a sports team to create that. Now, I want to explain very quickly the teams that are in the lead. The Emirates, they're at 85. The Black Foils at 82. The Bonds Flying Roos at 80. Love that name. I love that. It's pretty good. Now, unfortunately, you guys are out of it because you guys are in 10th place. But I have to ask, and I'm not trying to embarrass the United States team, how do you get negative four on the board? I mean, what, did they like go backwards or something?

23:10How do you score negative four? We're negative because you can get a lot of penalties during the race for many different reasons. And, well, the U.S. team, you know, the ownership of Mark Lassery is also pretty recent, two and a half years. And it takes time. Like people don't realize from outside these are the most difficult sailing boats to drive in the world. And, you know, it takes like at least two or three seasons, especially for a new team to perform at best. Because you have six people on the boat and everyone needs to be very coordinated. At the same time, you're flying on the water at, you know, 60 miles an hour.

24:04And I'm not trying to embarrass the United States team. You did a great job of it, Michael Blatt. But I saw the scoring, and I'm like, and you have to understand, I'm a big auto racing nut. I have never seen a negative for any driver when you're coming to the show. But because of the scoring system, like you said, that's the way it is. But it's going to be exciting. I mean, it's definitely really exciting. Also, like you were mentioning, how fast the boats go, but how big the boats are. I mean, you can't really see it until you're actually there in person. and the in-person experience is really amazing.

24:39But one of the things I wanted to ask you about is when we're talking about the different teams is like you had mentioned, it's USA, Italy, Australia as a team, New Zealand as a team. There are all these different countries that are represented, but each team isn't necessarily only represented by athletes from that country. How do you think that is an advantage, disadvantage when you have teams that are representing a country, but sometimes the drivers or people on the team aren't necessarily from there? why isn't it not just you know team names sponsors or whatever why is it important to have the nations represented do you think?

25:13Well there was one of the characteristics you can have obviously people from other nations but you need to have at least like half of the team on board that is represent the country of the nationality of the team. The five characteristics that I want to talk about that that are the made unique the league are men and women on the same team there are very few leagues that men and women compete in the same teams only one boat per nation so that creates scarcity but also make the halo effect where you have all the people from the country like supporting their own team everybody is exactly the same by the millimeter like weight and all carbon fiber.

26:09They're built in Southampton in England. Spectacular location around the world, Santro Perio, De Janeiro, Abu Dhabi, Cadiz, hopefully very soon in Italy. And cap expense. That's the other characteristic. Our thanks to Gianluca Passi de Reposolo for joining us. He's chairman and co-owner of the Red Bull Italy SailGP team. Up next, we hear from tennis legend Serena Williams. For Damian Sassauer and Vanessa Perdomo, I'm Michael Barr. You are listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports, Bloomberg Radio around the world.

26:53This is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Thanks for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports, where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barron. And I'm Vanessa Perdomo. Nearly a decade after launching Serena Ventures, Serena Williams is channeling her competitive spirit into investing. Bloomberg TV anchor Danny Berger recently got a chance to sit down with Serena at the American Business Forum in Miami. Let's take a listen to a little bit of their conversation. I feel like I've always thought of me as a businesswoman. And I think when it came to sport and when it came to things that I did in sport in particular, listen, my job was a business.

27:36You know, it wasn't for me just about going out there and hitting tennis balls and winning. Obviously, that was the biggest part of it. But it was also really about being a business, being an entrepreneur. And at the time when I was doing all this, there was lots of things and lots of people saying that you have to focus only on tennis, that you can't do other things. You can't have this other stuff. You can't be an entrepreneur. You can't think about other businesses. You really just have to do tennis. And I pushed that envelope and I said, you know what? That's not me. I am the kind of person, I was taught from an early age, actually from my father, that it was really important to have a plan B.

28:14I don't know if he thought that I would do decent in tennis or not. Maybe that's why he told me I needed a plan B. But that's something that kind of always stuck with me. And so when it came to what I wanted to do in sport, whether it was fashion or whether it was design or whether it was investing, it was something that was always going to be this entrepreneur. And now the new modern athlete, if you think about the modern athlete, if they're only playing their sport, then now that's frowned upon. So I love seeing the difference of how it started versus how people look at sport as an athlete now.