Special Edition: A Vibe Check on ESPN's 'Vibe Check'

0:28Welcome to a special edition of Bloomberg Business of Sports. Disney+. It's a different kind of sports talk and highlight show with a heavy emphasis on women's sports. And that day, I got a chance to sit down after the conference was over with hosts L. Duncan, Chene Ogumike, and Ari Chambers to get, well, a vibe check on Vibe Check, as well as their take on the stories of the day in women's sports. We went especially deep on the state of the WNBA, which all of them obviously have been watching closely. Ogumike herself played in the league for seven seasons. And let me tell you, they did not hold back about the drama in the W right now, especially as the current collective bargaining agreement is set to expire on October 31st.

1:06Take a listen. So Elle, I'll start with you. Like, tell us about this show. Like, what is it? Like, what did you conceive of it? And how's it going? Yeah, so I think that the conception of this show was a space where, like, we could talk about women's sports, but talk about them from our own perspective. And I think, you know, the goal in putting Vibe Check together was not that, like, we wanted to be super overly intentional about, like, let's get the female perspective. We are women, and so our perspective on sports, whether that be a women's sport or a male sport, will skew women and female because that's what we are.

1:49So for us, it was just more about being able to unpack more stories, bringing in amazing people like Ari, who has such a temperature on the women's sports culture and has for so many years, like giving her a place where she could cook and have all of this information that she's got about whatever it is, from gymnastics to women's basketball. And I think that's, you know, the ability to showcase all of this incredible women talent at ESPN was really probably the force multiplier of wanting to do this show because in their respective roles, we're all sort of limited to the time that we have and the role that we have, but this is a place where everybody can come and unpack everything that they know in an environment that's super warm, and I think it's going pretty well, right?

2:29What do you think, Janai? I think the vibes are high. Obviously, the vibes are immaculate. Yeah. You asked about the inception or conception of it. It came from authenticity. Yeah. So, girl, were we working the tournament? We were working the NCAA tournament, and they give us so much content, and obviously, working with Andre, it's like you're going into this basketball matrix. So Elle needed an easy way to get our thoughts because we're going to break. We're cutting through so many different games. And so she's like, let's just do something like a vibe check where I give out two answers and you pick from them and see if you two are on the same vibe.

3:03So that was the start of vibe check because both of us just can go into these basketball crazy dark corners. But yeah. I remember the first one too. Do you remember what it was? No, what was it? It was, yes, Ari knows. I ask them I go what's going to be the second half storyline 3, 2, 1 and they're both the refs I think Drea said the refs and I said the referee we gotta work on our vibe just shorten it but that's where it started just seeing if we're on the same page and from there it was like the most authentic thing it created a greater space for more voices more sports and just for us to be ourselves because often time at ESPN she's working sports and you're working 100 zillion different events I'm working NBA but this was a space for us to be ourselves so all right come in here to tell us about that exact point because you know obviously women's sports we're going to talk a lot about that yeah are rising in popularity in viewership in attention at espn and elsewhere what are you how is that manifesting in in your work and and how do you see it showing up well because it's increasingly popular i can change or transform um transfer my energy from advocacy to storytelling all i ever wanted to do was amplify and storytell around women's sports, women athletes.

4:20And Vibe Check gives me the opportunity to do that. We have this big, comfy couch that Elle typically sits on with her feet up. And we bring in guests and get to just be the voice for them or help relay whatever they want to relay. And then we can share our perspectives. And I can focus on, with my great teammates sharing instead of breaking down these doors. Yes, it exists to be the standard, be an innovative space, but it also exists as another megaphone for what we're already doing. Right. And it's interesting that you frame it like that because it does feel like they're in the best possible way.

5:00When you turn on the show, everybody's sort of in, you know, there's not, there's not sort of a like, okay, we're going to explain to you what's going on. It's like, welcome in, this is happening. So just like, and we've been felt that on stage. I mean, that feels very intentional, Chanae. Yeah, it absolutely is. Because one, we understand that every second is an opportunity for us to talk about what we love. We don't take this for granted because it doesn't happen often. We're always a mix of people because we have so many amazing voices at ESPN and beyond that can be a part of it. So the moment we say, show's on, we're in it.

5:31Elle always has something cooked up, some jokes, some scheme, some skit. I am already prepping for how I'm going to take down Drea in an argument. Aria is telling us what is the most important thing that happens in women's sports this day and communicating with guests she's known her whole life, basically. So I think we understand that the show is shorter than most, and so we want to give it the best punch ever. And that's why I think it's always great. But even beyond that, us, getting to know us. It's a better space for you to know us as people. I look on the wall and I see a Stanford flag. I see Tennessee flag.

6:07I see all of Elle's ATL trinkets. I have an outcast bobblehead. Literally, there are bobbleheads of outcasts right there. 3000 is right there. But it helps you get to know us better so that they have great platforms that they're going to continue to build. I'm still building mine. So it kind of adds to our credibility when we storytell around other ESPN entities. And so how does it fit in your mind? you work across all of these different aspects of ESPN. How does it fit into the ESPN ecosystem, which feels like it's changing every day? The media landscape is changing every day. Like, Elle, how do you see it sort of like fitting in or maybe defining where it's going?

6:49Yeah, it's actually a bit of, by nature, a bit of a disruptor because it is one of the only studio shows that we put on Disney +, along with SC +, which premiered a little bit before ours did as well. So I think that gives you an ability to sort of merge the worlds of linear TV and digital. Ari is like a monster in the digital space. I've done more linear, although I've also dabbled in digital. You've done, she's fantastic on social media and those things as well, but mostly her day job is social media. It's been really cool to see the different groups sort of come together and conceive what this would look like, knowing that it's on a streaming platform, but also understanding that it is still TV TV and we still want to have the same goals, which is to educate, to entertain, to be fast-paced, to get big interviews, to talk about what's happening.

7:38So I would say in the space at ESPN, it's looked at incredibly favorably and also it's become a bit of a destination for the women that work there. The ones that haven't been on the show or hosted yet are like, when do I get my life check in? And I'm like, bring some stories. Tell them that you are interested and that you want to bring it to the table. But also for the women talent, they sit down and watch it with their families. Jess Mendoza was telling me she watches it with her family. And because they can't watch it live often, they can just turn it on Disney Plus and stream it after. Right, right.

8:08All right. So let's talk about the state of women's sports, if we can. Fascinating moment. You know, today we heard a lot of what was going on. You know, you guys had Allie Riley on, you literally days after her retirement from the NWSL with a local team, Angel City. We had Jeff Smith from the Valkyries. It feels exciting, but also a little bit precarious, given everything that's going on with the W especially. I mean, Chanae, maybe start with you. The W, what should we be thinking right now? I mean, we're talking a week before the CBA is up. Wow. You know, I have plenty of experience with the WNBA with change, considering that I'm, you know, I was a member of the WNBA.

8:57My older sister is currently the president of the Players Association. But with great change comes great responsibility, but also it comes with disruption. You use the perfect word, Elle. I look at Angel City, and that was the blueprint for its time and considerably for the future with what is possible. I played in the WNBA when I went to my first Angel City game. I was still playing and I was like, whoa, I'm literally across the street. And I'm like, what they have going with the business infrastructure, the support, the influencers, the investors. I brought some of my family to that game and they're like, I didn't know this was possible in women's sports.

9:34Then you take that blueprint, literally shout out to Jess Smith, and take it over to the Golden State Valkyries and build something that shocks a lot of people in its valuation. So one, the players have always been the best in its kind, right? Always going to put out the best product. But now seeing the investment, that's been the biggest disruptor in the best way because people are starting to see that you can get in on something right now that is huge for years to come. It's a generational asset. And I do believe that's transforming, above all sports, the future of the industry. NFL is at its peak.

10:07NBA is at its peak. You know, NHL at its peak. Like women's sports is rising and we're seeing that generational change through disruption, positive disruption, good leadership. I'm excited. And it's wild because the headlines are wild. Women are owning their own narratives and statements. I often say that like women's athletes, they tend to have multiple degrees. They know what they're doing. They understand that their power is in the collective. It's unlike anything we've ever witnessed before. We're glad to be storytellers of it. but I do think that we will continue and I say we because I can never say like I'm on the other side you know a journalist you earned that right to say we girl some people should I don't know how it is but I'm excited for the future because the business is booming the players are becoming worldwide stars and the sky is truly the limit and we'll see where it goes how worried are you about this I knew you were going to come back to me on that I'll say this every day things change But one thing I do know for sure is that everyone wants to keep the product on the floor.

11:09We just, and I say we again, languages have to be spoken that are the same. I think that there was a huge moment, obviously, with Nafisa Collier putting out her statements. While that was quite a bit to process, particularly from the league standpoint, it did create an opportunity to reset. And right now it's crunch time and hopefully all parties, which I believe they are, are working towards reconciliation and moving forward because this is the momentum that women's sports has been dreaming of. And it's not just basketball. This is a moment that will define women's sports by the CBA, bigger paid maternity leave, opportunities for veterans when they're done playing.

11:54There's so many intricacies that touch the workplace overall, not just sports. So the time is now. Every day is like a coin flip. But I do think they have the same goal. Now it's time for them to speak the same language. All right. What do you think? I mean, you understand sort of the landscape of women's sports as well as anyone. She can be way more real than me. What do you think? Well, as far as revenue, I remember having conversations with people in 2018 saying the cost of inaction is greater than the risk. Right. And you see the return on investment. and people like Mark Davis who bought the Aces for$2 million?

12:262021. It was like$2 million. $200 plus million. It's a ridiculously great investment to have. Now, as far as the CBA, I am not as close as Jhene is in it. I will say historically they have not met the deadline, but they have come into a consensus before the season starts. Knowing what they're up against between expansion draft, free agency, and the trajectory that women's sports is right now, They want a common goal to keep the product on the floor, to reiterate. But what's the vibes from the players? No one's closer to more players than you. The players, I'll quote NECA. NECA told me that for the first time they have a real strong foundation that they're unwilling to waver in their foundational requests, right?

13:13But the players who can't be as, NECA's the president for a reason, right? So the players are feeling like, okay, no, we're worth this. we're not going to stop until we get the demands. We're going to demand this. But the collective bargaining agreement is a bargain. It's going to have to have a little give and take, but the value is there. Numbers talk. The numbers are talking. And the players are able to be louder in a way that they haven't before. Swim Cash, when she renegotiated in 2016, said we had to know when to walk away from things. We had to know what to ask for so that the league can sustain.

13:47And I think that there's apprehension on the league side with sustainability if you fulfill all the requests right now with the trajectory and the way it's growing. But the reality is, how long do you lean on skepticism before you completely make your product that's so great feel less than what they deserve? Yeah. To echo what they're saying, I did talk to Sue Bird recently on her podcast, and I thought one of the things that she said that stood out to her about this negotiation, and she couldn't get much into it. She is part owner, right? But she was just really inspired by the interest from the players.

14:23She's like, I remember past CPAs. Child, they wouldn't even answer the phone for the little hours of the little meetings. She was like, they wouldn't answer the phone. They wouldn't show up to meetings. They didn't. She's like, I don't even know if I knew who my team rep was for the first part of my career. She was like, just because there was just almost this hopelessness of like, well, they're not going to give us anything anymore. Or we're at the mercy of. Yes. Like, we can't be audacious enough to ask for anything. So what's the freaking point? And so for her to see the engagement from the players and to see the confidence to stand up there and say, like, this is what we deserve.

14:53These are the non-negotiables. This is what we want. To see the bold, like, you know, movement of the T-shirts and the speaking. She said that, and I think that's probably what's been the biggest difference, Chanae, is the engagement from the players who are standing in purpose and saying, like, we know what our value is. and we are going to speak for what's right because, to her point, this has the potential to really be a defining, seminal moment in women's sports. And players are now having ownership positions, whether that's within being a retired player, having a team of their own, or creating their own leagues, or owning their own businesses.

15:31Like Janae said, they have multiple degrees. They're challenging because the league is the mouthpiece for the owners, so they're challenging the conventional thought of, we cannot accommodate this because this is not how the business model is when you have them running businesses now. So it's just the stronger business sense and grasp for what the reality of the landscape is reflected when they're coming to an agreement. Yeah, it's such an interesting point because in sports writ large, not just women's sports, you now have athletes with economic interests and economic power that literally they've never had before.

16:10Whether today, Chris Paul, Maria Sharapova, the three of you, I mean, it's an entirely different landscape when it comes to athletes and the business of sports. You have players that are multimillion dollar brands that understand their worth. You have players that are launching their own leagues and finding creative ways to be sustainable, but also go beyond that, create new partnerships. and then you have players that still do the traditional mode of going and playing overseas. The options are much different than where they were in the past. And I do think that this is a good sign. You know, when players can feel like they stand with a individual or collective value, that's a good sign for business.

16:57But what they want is to be able to share in the growth of that. Not saying that it has to be equal to what we compare to in other sports leagues, but something that is proportional for what they reflect and where the business is today. And these players, that's what I loved about what Allie said. They talk to each other. I'll never forget in the last CBA, Sue was on. So you know who else was listening in the background? I don't know if that was fair. I don't know if I was feeling too much to you. Megan was in the back. Megan Rapinoe, her partner. Rapinoe. And they just accomplished going to Capitol Hill and fighting through legislation.

17:31That ticket tape parade was crazy. I remember. Then they take that institutional knowledge and say, hey, WNBA, what do you need to know? Yeah. And they're like, oh, this is how we're going to help our league grow? We're going to take this and build our own leagues. You know, so they're problem solving on the fly. But you don't want the problem to be with an institution that you love and adore, you dreamt of since you're a kid. you want to be partners in that. And then lastly, the valuation of teams and what the owners are willing to pay. Now that there's a higher demand for when you bring in a team, you have to meet a certain standard of economic stability.

18:09That makes a difference too, because there's an inequity of ownership, willingness to compensate the players. And I think that if all ownership groups were able to come to a consensus of what it looks like to be a successful team and what the ownership groups are willing to put into the players, it wouldn't be so back and forth. Again, I think the league is the mouthpiece for the owners to help bridge the gap between the seven wealthiest versus the rest. My sources tell me that's not a problem. My sources that have negotiated the last few expansion teams have told me that in terms of that valuation, that they had three teams that were willing to pay that$250 million expansion fee, and that if they wanted to, they could have had 12.

18:56Right. Yeah, exactly. The new ones. The new ones. But the existing ones is what I'm saying. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, and I think they're going to have to force an issue. They're going to have to force an issue. They're going to have to. And that is the ownership side. We've seen this in soccer, and now we're seeing it in basketball just as much, that this is the evolution of a league, right, in the sense that it's no longer, you guys have heard this as much as I have, it's no longer a charity. You're not doing it out of your foundation. This is a business. When Willoughby and Bob Iger bought Angel City at a$250 million valuation, that was a business decision.

19:31To own a franchise, though, now sitting in 2025, about to be 2026, that looks like a steal. Yes, absolutely. I have no idea where that's standing. Right. But I do also think, Ari, to your point, there is always going to be cheap owners. It's a cost. It just is. There are, I mean, how many times do we see the NFLPA warn their players, don't go play for them? Like, this is just a reality of it. You're going to have huge investment from some owners and you're going to have some owners who are cheap. And like, but to her point, it's the few and far between. Those cheap ones that don't want to spend any money, don't want to upgrade facilities, don't want to do any of those things that need to be, you know, continued to weed out by making sure that there is a huge investment in these people.

20:11And I think my sources are telling me that one of the biggest sort of tipping points and selling points to these prospective new owners is just like any other business as an entrepreneur that you have started, you are going to lose money up front. You need to be okay with that. You're going to lose money. But if you keep investing, it will come back to you tenfold. And I think to your point, like Mark Davis is a huge symbol for that. You buy, he lost money until he didn't. And now he's got the most important franchise in the W. With multiple rings. With multiple rings. And that's why they're the most important franchise.

20:44In that scene? Yeah. All right, so to wrap it up, it feels like, just based on this discussion, vibes are good. Vibes are high. Vibes are high. Vibes are progressive. Vibes are high, yeah. And so what's next for a vibe check? Like, how do you guys think about, you know, the next year or two, you know, looking out, does the show grow? Does it spin off? Like, what is the grand vibe check plan, Elle? Oh, man. We've all worked out. I'm in today's place. You're sitting right there in the middle. That's why you gave me the middle C. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, the goal is always to, at least from this side, and, like, that question may be better answered by a marketing executive or, you know, one of our executives in the office.

21:27But what do you want it to be? For me, I care purely about making sure we do the absolute best version of the thing that we have before we talk about expanding and spinning. and I am completely driven by content. And I am also a bit of a perfectionist in that like until I feel like we have executed and nailed this thing and we're still figuring it out. I mean, VibeCheck premiered in May. Like it's just been around for a few months. We are still getting our sea legs under us. We're still figuring out combinations because again, we do have so many. We're still figuring out audience metrics. I mean, you know, something can be sold and that's amazing.

22:04Like we want it to be sold, but it takes some time to get research, to figure out what people are resonating with, like what topics they're interested in. And so for me, I'm far less interested in like what's next for VibeCheck in terms of scale and much more in like how we each own our little space of VibeCheck and continue to try to make it authentic and real and a place that's a destination for families to come. And learning over the last few months what our demos are, what our audience looks like, that to me is information that we'll use moving forward. Can you add to that? Mic drop. That's my sentence.

22:39Well, I appreciate all three of you spending some time. This is really fun to chop it up. Vibes are great. Vibes are great. Wait, I feel like we should have done a vibe check with you. We should. I know. Wait, why not? Ooh, okay. I got one. Okay. Georgia or Georgia Tech? Georgia Tech. Sorry. You went to Georgia, though. I didn't go to Georgia. Oh, you're just a Georgia fan. I'm a fan of like, I have a lot of family from Georgia Tech, which is probably where I attend. And then I have a lot of family from Georgia. So you just pick one. No, clearly not. Georgia State or Georgia. I'm just kidding.

23:15Georgia Southern. Thanks so much for listening to this special edition of Bloomberg Business of Sports. For more from me, check out my podcast, The Deal. I host that alongside MLB legend turned NBA and WNBA owner Alex Rodriguez. guests. Recently, we've had conversations with everyone from Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones to Peloton instructor Robin Arzon and former New York giant and current Goldman Sachs managing director Justin Tuck. Check that out. And stay tuned on this feed for more great episodes of Bloomberg Business of Sports. I'm Jason Kelly, and this is Bloomberg.

23:59You