Special Edition: The Business of Soccer

0:01Hey, everybody. Welcome to a new special edition of the Bloomberg Business of Sports Show. we are calling the business of soccer. We are officially one year out from the 2026 FIFA World Cup, and this weekend marks the start of the 2025 FIFA Club World Cup, as well as the CONCACAF Gold Cup. Now, all three tournaments are being held in the U.S., so there's just so much soccer going on over the next year, we knew we needed to do something special. There are going to be countless things to talk about around the big money that surrounds both FIFA World Cups, the economic impact on host cities, and will this finally be the thing that makes soccer as big here in the U.S.

0:38as it is around the world? So, welcome to the business of soccer. I am your host, Vanessa Perdomo. I am a former Division I soccer player, so I am so excited for this year to come. I want to set the tone for anyone who's unaware of what the Club World Cup is. 32 clubs from across North America, South America, Europe, Asia, and Africa are competing for title of club world champions, but also competing for a prize pot of a billion dollars. Yep, you heard that right. One billion dollars with a B. And the winner takes home a 125 million dollar prize. A lot of soccer clubs operate in the red, so 125 million dollars should be enough of an incentive to get some real competition.

1:22Our first guest is Pete Oliver, CEO of Growth Markets at DAZN. DAZN has the exclusive global rights to broadcast the Club World Cup, and they are putting it out on their platform for free. He explained why they chose to put this out there for free instead of behind their usual paywall, and why they're confident that this is going to be the most stream-sporting event ever. Here's my conversation with Pete Oliver, Chief Executive Officer of Growth Markets at DAZN. So I'm joined by Pete Oliver, CEO of Growth Markets at DAZN. Pete, thanks for joining the Bloomberg Business of Sports Business of Soccer special.

1:58Thanks so much. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me. So Club World Cup is kicking off this weekend. Super excited for it. DAZN has the global rights for it. Tell us all about how to find it, where the games are, because there's also TV partnerships as well, right? There are. I mean, this is quite a unique and a bit of a first for a streaming platform. So DAZN will be streaming every single game for free. And DAZN is available worldwide. So whether you're in the US, Europe, the Middle East, you'll be able to download the DAZN app and watch all 63 games for free. And it's the first time there's been a single streaming platform running a competition of this scale.

2:42And we think it will actually become the most streamed sporting event yet because of the popularity of soccer internationally. But you're absolutely right. We've also worked with local broadcast partners. So here in the US, we're working with TNT and Univision, who have got a selection of games, not all of the games, but a selection of games. And that's really helping extend the audience, make people aware of the tournament and promoting FIFA and DAZN overall. So just over 20 games will be available on those two broadcasters for US customers as well. Mm-hmm. And DAZN is typically a subscription-based platform, right?

3:21So why make these games free for everyone? Yeah, we started, we've traditionally been a pay TV platform with subscription and pay-per-view. But around a year ago, we started experimenting with free content. And in Europe, we've run a number of events for free. And we think it's a very good model for an event like this because we can bring in a huge new audience to our platform and introduce our brand to a lot of new sports fans. obviously we ask people to register so we do get some details we get their email address and in the future can sell them a paid subscription and for an event like this we've had a very big opportunity on advertising and sponsorship so by making the event free we're able to you know really really increase the reach for brands i should say we have got a paid version of the products as well so the free product is very good but if you want to have hdr picture quality less ads you can upgrade for a small fee and pay for a premium version of the club world cup but we do expect most people will watch it for free and that's really going to build the the zone brand and the zone installed user base around the world how does less ads work for a live sporting event so it's a great question because obviously we have breaks uh where there will be some ads um so for a soccer game actually you don't really have um much break in play so you've got half time but apart from that it's a pretty continuous match and we will be removing sort of in-play advertising for people who pay a small fee so during the game there will be some in-play advertising not a huge amount but some and if you pay you won't see that you'll still get breaks you know before and after the game like regular ad breaks but you won't see as much of the in-game advertising right okay and recently we were at an event together and you had talked about this being one of the catalysts for growing the brand in the U.S.

5:11specifically, because here known more as a boxing platform, right? So why was this the tournament? Why this tournament do you think is going to help extend the brand reach overall for soccer and for overall for the brand? Yeah, I mean, great question. I mean, I think, you know, first of all, for the U.S., we have historically here been a combat sports platform. whereas if you look in Europe and Japan we're very well known as you know a leading multi-sport provider with a lot of soccer baseball and so on in those countries I think the great thing about the Club World Cup is that it's happening in the US and when it kicks off next week I think people are going to be very excited to see Real Madrid, PSG who just won the Champions League in Europe, River Plate, Boca Juniors you know teams from all over the world coming to play in a competition where there's a lot of money at stake.

6:05And so for us, having a tournament that's hosted in the US, we think is very powerful. It's in the time zone. It will be across 11 different US cities. People are going to be very aware it's happening. So for us, that's a good tournament to grow our brand in the States. And also, we are soccer experts. We have all of the big leagues in Europe. So in Italy, we have Serie A, the Bundesliga in Germany, La Liga in Spain. and so our production teams are very expert in that kind of coverage so we feel we can give a you know really great experience for viewers i should say beyond the u.s um soccer or as i would call it living in the uk football is the biggest sport in the world you know it's it's loved in south america it's loved across europe the middle east um you know it is it is actually the most popular sport in the world and as a result we'll be able to bring in a very very large global audience.

6:58Do you think that the global audience is going to outweigh the audience here in the US? Well, that's an interesting question. I think in the US, we will get a very significant audience. You know, in the tens of millions of people, I think we'll watch this tournament. But if we take the sort of global footprint, we think it will be much more in the hundreds of millions. And that's because of the sheer scale of fans you have in countries in South America, Europe, the Middle East, and so on. So we think it'll be very significant for us in the US, but on a global scale, probably even bigger. So you mentioned hundreds of millions of viewers there, and I know that one of the things that you guys are looking at to be the most streamed sporting event in the history of streaming, is that because you're looking at all 60 of those games globally that you think will reach that over 100 million mark that is held right now by Jake Paul and Mike Tyson fight?

7:57Yes, I think over the whole tournament we'll easily see over 100 million individual people watching it or streaming it. To give you a sense, if I take a soccer club like Real Madrid, they've got over half a billion fans worldwide, a huge, huge audience. The clubs in South America, typically tens of millions of people are following River Plate, Boca Juniors. So these teams have huge, huge followings. and as a result, we think the cumulative number will be very high. In terms of the single biggest stream match, clearly that will be towards the end, the semifinals or the final, I would predict, depending on the teams, and we think that will be a very significant number, but we'll have to see how we get on and which teams make it.

8:41It'll be a bit dependent on the teams that get there. Yeah, absolutely, for sure. I mean, if Miami makes it all the way that far, then that'll be really good for the audience here in the U.S., I could imagine, right? Absolutely. One of the things that I think is interesting that could be unique for you guys in this tournament is being the global rights partners across everywhere, right? So how do you make sure that in those specific markets that you're speaking to those fans directly here in the US, there in South America, in Europe and all that? It's a great question. So we are doing 27 different feeds on the platform with localized commentary, localized presentation talent.

9:21and that even goes down to for English language we'll have a US team you know who talk soccer and you know more for the US audience and we'll have a British team who talk about as we would say in the UK football so we're even localizing within the languages you know we've got a Latin American Spanish feed and we've got a Spanish feed for Spain and Europe so we are producing this in in multiple languages with relevant talent uh the talent we're using is a mixture of uh you know soccer experts but also influencers ex-players and we will be tailoring the experience in local language so although it's one platform the production will feel very localized depending where you are there'll be you know in europe french german italian uh in south america portuguese for Brazil, LATAM Spanish, and even in the Middle East, we'll be producing an Arabic feed.

10:15So depending where you are in the world, you're going to get a feed that's relevant to you. So really, really global on that different aspect. Yeah, for sure. So when we're looking at, you know, the excitement and why you think that this will be so successful, is it because of this continuous cycle that we're going to see in the US over the next year, you know, on the heels of the world cup coming in in 2026 yeah there's a few factors i mean first of all for the club world cup itself uh there's a combination here of some of the best teams in the world playing in a competition with real meaningful prize money but also the best players you know we've got messi obviously playing at uh into miami but harlan's coming with man city and bapé's coming with real madrid you know this this will be very exciting in terms of the top clubs of the top players and some of these teams really have never competed before because they're coming from all parts of the world.

11:06But on top of that, you have a bit of a movement in the US now where we've got the World Cup for national teams coming next year. The MLS continues to sign increasingly strong players and we see that soccer is one of the fastest-growing sports in the US, particularly with younger fans as well. So it's really good timing and I think very, very, you know, it's a good moment for the sport in the United States. How do you continue that growth in the name of DAZN, maybe for soccer here in the US after the tournament's over? Yeah, it's a good question. So we're working on a few things at the moment.

11:47We can't quite say what they are yet, but we will be shortly announcing some soccer rights and content that we'll have for next season, which typically starts in August for most leagues. and we'll be bringing some of our European expertise from the big leagues we have there. So after the Club World Cup, we expect to have more live soccer. We also have a long-term partnership with FIFA for their FIFA Plus service, which will be available on DAZN. So we're hoping to have, and we're planning to have, a lot of extra content for people to stay with us after the tournament finishes in July. Yeah, absolutely.

12:21And as we're talking about the global aspect of it all, then how does that work you know in terms of continuously growing that as well i know you you guys have a partnership with saudi pro league is that going to continue to extend as well yeah we've got a number of big leagues we work with um and for instance you know having global highlights having access to the big european leagues where we can get interviews news you on the ground footage, all of that will kind of go into our global service. There are a number of other things we're working on at the moment for global rights beyond what we currently have.

13:00And again, over the summer, I think you'll see a few more announcements from us about other soccer rights and other sports rights that we'll be making available worldwide. Yeah. One of the things, you know, that has recently come out about the Club World Cup is that ticket sales aren't going as well as, you know, originally thought. Does that give you any sort of concern for the viewership aspect of it? Well, I think there's a few things on ticket sales. The first thing I would say is I would fully expect the very big teams to sell out. So if Chelsea come and do a preseason tour in the US, not even in a competition like this, they sell out all of the stadiums straight away.

13:39Real Madrid will sell out. The big South American teams will sell out. So I think when we get to the stadiums, we're going to see them a lot busier than maybe people are saying they will be. Clearly, some fixtures may may may feature teams that are less famous, less popular. And we'll see how they get on. But I think, first of all, I think, you know, we will see stadiums filling up a lot more. And people do often make late decisions on these things. But from an audience point of view on streaming, we are very confident on it. We can see trends when we look on Google for how many people are searching for this tournament worldwide.

14:14You know, that is growing really, really well at the moment. We've already seen a very large number of customers register for the DAZN app, so they're ready to watch it. And we're very confident the audiences will be big because of the popularity of soccer worldwide. Do you think that there's some sort of partnership between you and FIFA and the clubs themselves that you want to make extra content around maybe those teams who aren't as popular? Is there plans for that? Are you already doing that? Yeah, we're already on the case. So we've already made a short documentary for each team about who they are.

14:49You'll be seen as we go into the tournament. We'll be pushing that with FIFA on a lot of our social media channels. and there are some really exciting teams you know in the tournament that people may not be fully familiar with so you know as an example Al-Hilal who are coming from the Middle East have been champions out there for years and years and have some of the best players in the world particularly from South America playing for them so I think I think fans are going to discover a lot of new players and a bit like a national team World Cup there will be new stars that come out of this players who score a lot of goals goalkeepers who make incredible saves and that's all part of part of the the sort of intrigue of bringing these teams together yeah heck yeah give it on for the goalkeepers there because i love that i was a goalkeeper and we don't get enough love i don't think and our highlights are just good um and you talked there about you know a little bit about social media and stuff and recently announced a partnership with tiktok how does that work you know in terms of are people going to be able to share you know because with rights on social media that's a little bit tricky with sharing highlights and things like that?

15:53Well, I mean, again, as part of making this, you know, widely available, we will be, through our social media channels, publishing highlights throughout the tournament. We're working with a number of partners to distribute those and, you know, drive awareness of them. So the big social media platforms, including TikTok, who we recently announced a bit of a strategic partnership with around this tournament, but also more traditional publishing groups We'll be providing with highlights and clips, you know, really to drive the excitement and to drive people back to watch the live games on the DAZN platform as well.

16:26So we're a very digital company and we've always thought about sport both on our platform, but extended onto social platforms to reach fans wherever they're consuming. in. P, as we wrap up here, is there any sort of bar or metrics you're looking at that you have now for fans in the US for, you know, that you want to have growth at the end of this tournament that you're looking at metric wise? Yes, first of all, it's very important how many new registered customers we get who download our app and experience it for the first time. Obviously, the audience figures for the games themselves are important.

17:06And as you asked earlier, you know, we will have follow-on content. So for us, retaining people into the app is important as well. And we just think this is a massive opportunity for DAZN to be installed on more smart TVs, more mobile phones, and for fans to see, you know, what we can do, because we're quite unique as a streaming app that is purely dedicated to sport. But yes, we'll look at the numbers at the end and hopefully we'll have significantly more customers registered with us than before when we started. That was my conversation with Pete Oliver, CEO of Growth Markets at DAZN. Now, not only is the Club World Cup free to stream online, it's one of the cheapest major sporting events that's been held in the US over the last few years.

17:54Average ticket prices are about 100 to$200. Whereas if you wanted to go to the Super Bowl this year, the average ticket prices were about$2 ,000 to$6 ,000. This is a special edition of the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast, The Business of Soccer. Up next, we'll hear from the CEO and Secretary General of U.S. Soccer Federation, J.T. Batson. I'm Vanessa Perdomo. This is Bloomberg.

18:25you're listening to a special edition of the bloomberg business of sports podcast the business of soccer i'm vanessa perdomo my next guest is ceo and secretary general of the u.s soccer federation jt batson so alongside the club world cup happening right now is the conca calf gold club which is this huge tournament between national teams in north america central America and the Caribbean. This is one of the last big tournaments before the World Cup next year, and the U.S. men's national team needs to do well. The U.S., Canada, and Mexico do have automatic bids into the World Cup next year as the host nations, but the U.S.

18:59has been struggling, so they need to make their mark on the international stage. Let's listen to my conversation with CEO and Secretary General of U.S. Soccer, JT Batson. So we are one year out from the start of the 2026 FIFA World Cup. I am so excited. You know, how quickly has this come for you? Is it is it right around the corner for you, do you feel? Or is it still a long ways away? The way the soccer calendar works, there's always something right on on on your doorstep. And of course, the Men's World Cup being here in 2026 is a huge moment. We're all incredibly excited about it. But, you know, we joke a lot that the soccer calendar never sleeps.

19:40And so, you know, the team's up for it. Our organization's up for it. Our fans are up for it. And we're certainly excited. It definitely is constantly populating the soccer calendar for sure. So, JT, you came to the Federation just a few months ahead of the 2022 World Cup in Qatar. And that must have been quite a busy first few months. But now you're in it. You know, you're in tune with the job and everything. So how is this year going to be for you, different for you in going into 2026 than it was in 2022? Well, the going into the 2022 World Cup, you know, I joined in September. Obviously, the World Cup was a few months after that.

20:20Those plans are long baked before before two months out. And so, you know, as you think about the prep for next summer, you know, Matt Crocker, our sporting director, working with Mauricio Pochettino and staff planning out everything going into next summer. So that work is very actively going on and everything from where's the team based during the World Cup to what are the games you're playing to prepare to all of the sort of logistics and everything we're doing off the field as well to take full advantage of this unique moment. So, you know, I was in Qatar, I was able to benefit from all of that work, whereas in this instance, obviously, we're all knee deep in it.

21:04And with the World Cup being here presents all sorts of new opportunities for us to really seize the moment and help transform what soccer looks like in this country. Right, exactly. I mean, there's so much this. This is going to be the biggest moment for soccer really in the U.S. ever. Right. Because the last time we hosted a World Cup, 1994, we hosted a World Cup. The MLS was on the cusp of being created because of that World Cup. Right. So how is this going to be different because of everything that's on the line? MLS, NWSL, everything that can benefit from this time? You know, in 94, we had aspirations of being a soccer country.

21:44You know, you mentioned Major League Soccer was sort of born out of the 94 World Cup. The 1994 World Cup is still the most attended World Cup in history, even though it was only 24 teams. So, you know, imagine 48 teams in next summer is going to shatter that record. But I think as you think about where we are now, we are a soccer country. There are over 100 million fans of the men's and women's national team. There are more soccer games available to watch on television in the U.S. than any other country in the world. You've got tens of millions of people playing. You've got an incredible amount of commercial investment, success of Major League Soccer, NWSL, USL, and sort of all forms of soccer in this country.

22:26So, you know, conceivably, maybe 2026 is when the rest of the world learns that we're a soccer country. And so, you know, for us, you know, the journey from 94 to 2026 has been one of incredible growth and real maturity of the soccer market. And, you know, it's around how do we take that to the next level? In your opinion, how do we show the rest of the world that we are a soccer country since we are one of the hosts of the 2026 World Cup? Well, first and foremost, we have to have a team that everyone believes in. And we have to have a team that after every game, you're proud of their fight. You're proud of their performance.

23:08And you're excited about the next opportunity for them to go win. You know, the one of the things that was very true in Qatar was colleagues from around the world kept coming up to me and some of my colleagues at U.S. soccer saying, wow, this U.S. team, look at, you know, look at, you know, look at you guys. And they weren't expecting that. I think what of course we got to perform on the field. But I think where our big opportunity is, is for the millions of people that come to America to experience the tens of millions of fans here in America and their passion, their love, their knowledge for the game and helping them really appreciate how deep and broad the sort of love of soccer is in this country.

23:53And, of course, benefiting from the amazing facilities and infrastructure and restaurants and hotels and everything we have in the U.S. that makes it such an amazing place to witness a global sporting spectacle. Are there any metrics in terms of, you know, growing the game percentage wise by fans or viewership or in terms of youth participation that you're looking at that it stands now to where you want it to grow over the next year? So overall, U.S. soccer believes that we exist in service to soccer. Our job is to support those who are bringing soccer to life in communities all across the country.

24:31And those folks have three shared ambitions. They want soccer everywhere. So they want everyone in the country to be able to experience the joy of soccer. They want our teams to win. So they, of course, want our national teams. They want our pro clubs to win on the world stage. And they want to maximize investment in the sport at all levels. So that's commercial investment, philanthropic investment, government support, private capital coming in. And so as we think about the opportunity of Club World Cup in 25, Men's World Cup in 26, Olympics in 28, and us being the sole bidders for the Women's World Cup in 2031, there's a really unique opportunity for us to move the needle across all three of those shared ambitions.

25:11And as we think about what that means, we launched the Soccer Ford Foundation to drive more access to soccer, to make it to where everyone in this country can walk, ride their bike or take public transit to a safe place to play soccer, to make it to where soccer is in every school in this country. we've launched the US way, which is our comprehensive strategy to ensure our teams win, to focus on all levels of the game, to set our teams up for success in these big moments. And of course, from an investment standpoint, think about the investment that's going on at all levels of our game, whether it's infrastructure, building facilities, our new Arthur M.

25:53Blank US Soccer National Training Center in Atlanta, almost a 200 acre project, first ever national Training Center and headquarters for U.S. soccer. It'll be the best in the world when it opens next year to the investments in the professional leagues, the investments in all of the infrastructure, the digital infrastructure that U.S. soccer is doing around supporting the rest of the soccer ecosystem. So this is a very, very, very important time for us to take advantage of the growth of our sport, the momentum and the focus. And if anything, we are thinking about using 26, 28, 31, sort of forcing functions to get people to take big, bold steps forward around transforming what the sport can look like.

26:35And is that looking to get investors and the stakeholders in leagues and things like that? Those are those the people you're looking at to take big, big swings and big, you know, things like you just said, like, I mean, you guys obviously had a lot of investment this year. The Ken Griffin donation made a lot of headlines this year and helping with Marichu Pochettino getting hired as the U.S. men's national team coach. And then obviously, like you mentioned, Arthur Blank in that training facility, Michelle Kang, big donations. Talk to us a little bit about those specific people and investors that you're looking at to help grow and the role that philanthropy plays for U.S.

27:16soccer. So when you think about U.S. soccer, one analogy for folks who are listening in terms of our sort of businesses, we've got almost like a pro sports part of our business. Those are our national teams. We have 27 national teams, most known for our men's and women's national teams. But those sort of resemble a pro sports organization. We have a trade association type of business. Think of coaching education, referee certification and licensing, sort of promoting a health and safe and positive ecosystem type of work. And we have the Impact Arm Soccer Forward Foundation, which is around accessibility and ensuring our game can be everywhere for everyone.

27:55And so as you you think about investment, those come in different forms, depending on which of those businesses, your business lines you're talking about. And as you think about U.S. soccer, the organization, you know, we've had incredible success over the last two years launching our commercial rights business. We have been able to partner with some of the great brands in the world from Nike to Bank of America to Coca-Cola to Visa to, you know, and, and, and to where we have grown revenue at a really impressive clip over the last couple of years from people who believe in our vision, believe in our mission and believe in the opportunity to use soccer as a force for good in their relationship with U.S.

28:44soccer to bring that to life. We also have had incredible success from a philanthropic standpoint. You mentioned the support from Arthur M. Blank, from Michelle Kang, from Ken Griffin and others who believe that U.S. soccer can go do big things. Unlike our peers, U.S. soccer around the world, U.S. soccer receives no government support directly. And so philanthropic support is a unique American thing. And it's something that we want to embrace as we are trying to go be best in the world. And so why not use what America's great at? And so we've been very fortunate to have people who believe in our overall mission and believe in our ability to go do big things and being great stewards of their money.