Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - July 25th, 2025

23:32Carol Massar:Yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here to talk about my downtown. Some things you'd rather type than say out loud. There's no question too embarrassing for Amazon Health AI. Chat your symptoms and get virtual care 24-7. Healthcare just got less painful. This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at 2 p.m. Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg 1130. Safe to say so many called it that the bromance wouldn't last between the world's richest person and the U.S.

24:19Carol Massar:president. The breakup happening after disruptions to the U.S. government under what some say was the guise of efficiency and data foraging. We are talking, of course, about Elon Musk and how his companies, specifically Tesla, SpaceX and XAI, are struggling in the wake of his feud with President Trump. This past week, Bloomberg reported that a risk factor statement was sent to SpaceX investors, including Elon's desire to get back into politics. Certainly a whirlwind for those invested in Elon's empire. Writing all about it as the cover story for the upcoming issue of Bloomberg Business Week is Bloomberg's Max Chafkin and Ed Ludlow.

24:55Max is Bloomberg Businessweek senior reporter, also the co-host of the Everybody's Business and Elon Inc. podcasts. He joined us to break down how Elon's empire may be creaking under the strain of his antics. He's the wealthiest guy in the world and investors to date have essentially allowed him to do whatever he wants and to to do things that the that most CEOs, most entrepreneurs would never be able to essentially get away with. That said, there are, I'd say, bigger challenges facing these companies today than he's experienced in a very long time. You know, of course, Elon Musk has a history of sort of flirting with disaster.

25:39And you look at the history of Tesla. There were some very dicey moments in the 2000s. Same thing with SpaceX. But you haven't had this situation that we have today where you have essentially three companies, SpaceX, Tesla, and XAI. I'm going to leave off the sort of smaller ones, but those are there too. And then in the foreground, you have this potential fight with Donald Trump. And so, you know, everyone's focused on the fight, but those three companies, each in their own way, have very significant challenges.

26:11Carol Massar:So let's get to it because you do write, there are many more weapons President Trump could deploy against Elon Musk's business interests were he so motivated. So, so much is like, Like, does he or doesn't he? Let's start. I love the way you guys do this. You do basically like these case studies of each of these three businesses. So let's talk about Tesla. He makes promises. Sometimes it takes longer. We have all gone along from the ride that we eventually get this stuff. And to be fair, when it comes to EVs, certainly in the United States, he moved the needle. Yeah, absolutely. And that's what's made, I'd say, the events of the last couple of years so surprising because elon musk is attempting this very dramatic pivot away from evs and towards robo taxis which kind of strange because the ev market is still growing very quickly um tesla on the other hand is not growing i mean the their deliveries have been falling for the last two quarters had a down year uh in 2024 we'll see what this latest quarter looks like when they report earnings but but they are selling fewer cars each quarter than they did a year ago.

27:12And that is kind of surprising for a company that is trading at just this insane multiple, trading at a value that is way, way, way richer than a normal car company. Now, of course, the reason investors are going for this, the reason they're continuing to buy the stock at a relatively high price is because of RoboTax. This belief that Elon Musk is going to revolutionize transportation. The issue is that's been this kind of thing that Musk was able to point ahead in the future and say, look, this is going to be great. Don't focus on the now, focus on the future. And now we have the now. Now we have some robo-taxis on roads.

27:49And it's really a very small number. It's something like 10 to 20 robo-taxis in a very small part of Austin. Meanwhile, you've got Waymo, and we've talked about this before. But there is this obvious competitor, Waymo, which has way, way more robo-taxis in more markets and is not getting value the way that Elon Musk, the way that Tesla is getting valued. So you do wonder, you know, how long is it before investors start to look at that? And, you know, how many quarters of sort of declining deliveries, declining car sales, are they really going to tolerate? These companies have sort of always, Elon Musk's companies have always kind of used one another and shared engineers at certain points.

28:28Now we're getting to a point, Max, where Elon wants more investment from one company to another company, specifically Tesla, to invest in XAI, which is a challenging thing to do because Tesla's a public company. XAI is not. Shareholders might not love this idea. Explain the sort of borders or lack thereof when it comes to this accounting. I mean, the thing is, from the point of view of Tesla investors, and I think this is true of most of the investors and most of Elon Musk's companies, they're not investing in a particular product. They're just investing in Elon Musk. And that's one of the reasons why, You know, even when Musk does something that seems on its face a little bit foolish or crazy, for instance, the on again, off again purchase of X at a ridiculous, you know, overvalued at the time.

29:12Investors go along with because they just think, OK, Elon Musk wants this. He's a he's a brilliant guy. And so you have this thing where the companies, although they are nominally independent, are sharing resources, sharing management, of course, not just Elon Musk, but other folks, you know, sort of bouncing between them or doing work on the side. And now even you have XAI, which is desperately trying to raise money, raising money from Elon Musk's other companies, SpaceX, according to Elon Musk, putting$2 billion into XAI. And then Musk has said he's going to ask Tesla for money. And a year ago, he suggested the number would be$5 billion.

29:48So you're talking about a significant amount of money. Tesla, of course, has a lot of cash at the moment. So it's not like it can't afford it. But you've got to ask yourself, what is the rationale? Like, what's the business rationale, if you're a Tesla investor, to, you know, move money from Tesla to X, especially when X and Tesla are sort of in competition? You know, they're both AI companies. And so that's an issue. I mean, what I think it shows is that as much as these companies, you know, add up to this big empire, they're interlocking. And if one struggles, the others are going to struggle.

30:22If Tesla's value were to decline dramatically, that would hurt Elon Musk's empire in a big way because Tesla shares are a big source of his wealth, a way he finances things. And beyond that, there's this aura of success that he has used to sort of promote himself and promote these companies. And as that has, I'd say, come into some question, you know, I think that hurts some of these other companies.

30:43Carol Massar:So he did post on X that he's back to working seven days a week and sleeping in his office if my little kids are away. um yay but i'm just wondering which part of his empire is he most interested you guys talk about xai that that's what he seems to be super interested in right yeah and you get different uh answers depending on who you talk to it within the empire because uh of course tesla also feels like tesla uh employees board members also feel like they are in the middle of this really unique opportunity with robo taxis. But yeah, I mean, Musk has spent, it seems at least over the last couple of weeks, a lot of time on with XAI and Grok.

31:26Now, of course, AI chatbots, that's an area that a lot of investors are excited about. On the other hand, this is a very expensive company to finance. Bloomberg has reported that they're losing a billion dollars a month. So like that, you know,$5 billion from Tesla, that's going to they're going to burn through that, pretty quickly. And I think from the bull cases, hey, these large language models are really expensive to finance, so we need to put as much into them now, catch up to open AI. But of course, the other side of the coin is like, why does this very successful car company that's worth a trillion dollars by market cap, what does it have to do with AI chatbots?

32:07I don't think the answer is a whole lot. Yeah. Elon Musk claimed without evidence that President Trump was an accomplice in the crimes of Jeffrey Epstein and alleged that the president had covered them up. This was sort of the nadir in their relationship. I think if we look back over the last six weeks, is there any recovering from that? Like, do they get back together? Do they become allies again? I think it is very hard to see. I mean, obviously, those are very serious charges. I mean, sort of like the most serious charges in Republican politics. And it's led to a news cycle, right? That happened as their feud was kicking off at the beginning of June.

32:49Now we're in mid-late July and Republicans are still talking about Epstein quite a lot. So yeah, I mean, it's been a bad, that's a thing that's going to really throw a wrench in any kind of potential makeup. Now I will say, Trump and and Musk are both, this is going to sound weird, but they're both kind of forgiving. They both, although they like to cultivate this, both of them, you know, alpha image or whatever, they have, you know, Trump has done this where people have been on the outside and then find their way in. Steve Bannon, of course, famously was very much on the outs. Now he's no longer on the outs.

33:24Musk is the same. Musk, you know, will get very mad at people and, you know, find a way to get them back in. So I wouldn't discount it entirely just because, and I've said this on your show before, there are there are reasons each of them has an interest in in being on good terms with the other that said i mean it is it has seemed very difficult and you're seeing now we and we get into this in the story there are lots of signs if you're looking closely for ways in which this relationship is hurting elon musk today now i'm not just talking about jared isaacman the you know the the person that trump originally nominated to head nasa the space agency who is close to Elon Musk, who's out now.

34:03But there are lots of little regulatory moves, policy moves. And just to give you one example, the guy who's going to run NHTSA, you know, at his confirmation hearing suggested that we need to have more oversight of autonomous vehicles. So if you're Elon Musk, you don't want to hear that when you have a fleet of robo-taxis that you're trying to get on the roads. Yeah, you absolutely don't. And so, you know, Sean Duffy running NASA now, who's he was, according to at least some reporting from inside the White House, was one of the people who was really upset about Doge. So you're seeing these little things that are potentially troubling if you're Elon Musk and certainly cut against the sort of bull thesis around the time of the election, which was like, these guys are perfectly aligned.

34:45This is going to be amazing. I mean, that's what sent the stock up to its crazy heights in mid-December. And it's fallen. I think last I looked around, 33 percent since then, as that that argument has sort of fallen apart.

34:58Carol Massar:It's, you know, as you guys say, you know, you can't count out Elon ever, but it is curious to see how this ultimately plays out and whether or not he becomes a target of the administration potentially. Hey, Max, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Bloomberg Business Week, senior reporter Max Chafkin. Max and Ed Ludlow writing this story. It's an upcoming issue of Bloomberg Business Week. It is the cover story already on the Bloomberg and at Bloomberg.com. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 p.m. Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube.

35:37It would also unleash you just by lowering the interest rates. If the Fed would lower the rates, we wouldn't even have to do that. But we are thinking about no tax on capital gains on houses.

35:47Carol Massar:That was President Trump this past week with a statement that caught our attention. the president taking questions in the Oval Office during a press event, that he is considering a proposal to end capital gains taxes on home sales. And I got to say, caught my attention and sign me up. Are you planning to sell your home anytime soon? Not anytime soon. But, you know, when you've been in a home for a long time and it was a market that was pretty dead, there's been a fair amount of appreciation. So, yeah. But can't you also have you been keeping track of all the improvements that you've made over the years?

36:19Carol Massar:Yeah. I don't know how good the files are. But yes, I'm sure they're on your desk somewhere. I actually you know, it's so funny that you say that because I'm always like to my husband. Give me like the receipt. Give me the like. So, yeah. Yeah. Just some bank statements. Just keep track of that. And then it becomes your accountant's problem. Yeah, exactly. Hey, it's still a developing story. So nothing official yet. But under current laws, single filers are exempt from paying taxes on capital gains of two hundred fifty thousand dollars or less for the sale of their primary residence. While married couples filing jointly are exempt on up to five hundred thousand dollars.

36:50This new proposal would eliminate that cap.

36:53Carol Massar:That's what caught our attention. Legislation that, if passed, could impact millions of homeowners. For the latest on this and the latest on housing, head to Bloomberg.com or check out the Bloomberg Terminal. You know, I've been thinking about this, and it's one of those things first. You'd have to find where you'd offset that revenue loss when it comes to capital gains. But it's also one of those things, Carol, that I think would, again, disproportionately affect the wealthier people in this country because it's homeowners who own their homes for a very long time. So they would see the benefit, not necessarily the folks who the president has talked about wanting to be able to afford homes, those first-time homebuyers that he's talked about not being able to get into those homes the way they were, like their parents were able to.

37:33I mean, we even talked to a real estate agent this week who talked about first-time homebuyers being in their 40s now as a result of high prices and high rates.

37:41Carol Massar:Also, she talked about multi-generational homebuying. So older folks, you know, either passing on their homes or helping out, you know, their kids and then living with them with the understanding. I agree. It doesn't necessarily get to the housing affordability problem that has persisted, to be fair, not just this year, not just last year, but has, you know, been around for many, many years. We have a great voice, though, on housing that we like to talk to. Plays into the multifamily very much in the south of the United States. We're talking about Thomas Carroll. He's founder and chief executive officer of Ballast Rock Asset Management.

38:15Carol Massar:The firm has about$600 million in assets under management and, as we said, focuses on multifamily real estate and private equity. The industry as a whole has been white-knuckling, I would say, with an expectation of rates coming down. They've been white-knuckling the sale of assets. We're primarily in the secondary market rather than developing specifically in multifamily. But you still have to do a lot of work to those multifamily homes. Absolutely. We're doing massive renovations. And so inflationary costs around that are material, et cetera. But yes, the rates environment has had a tremendous effect on the multifamily market.

38:52Carol Massar:And until rates come significantly lower or sellers reprice in a material way, then it's tough for the market to get started again. That's what I wanted to ask you. If we just know, all right, the Fed's on hold because this is what the policy that makes sense for the next six to 12 months, then folks are going to do deals, right? It's like having some clarity because historically we're still at a lower rate environment. We've had much higher rates. And I guess my point is, are people just looking for clarity on what the policy is? And there's just between the back and forth between the White House and pressure on Fed Chair Jay Powell and maybe folks thinking that that could ultimately lead to lower rates.

39:35Carol Massar:I mean, that uncertainty, essentially, and at the same time, tariffs, which are putting another layer of uncertainty. So we just, the Fed doesn't know exactly what the environment's going to be. So they're on hold. So if at some point we have more clarity and the Fed says, nope, economy grown, we're doing good, Thomas, that then people will say, well, this is the environment. So we'll reprice and we can do stuff and we'll move ahead. I agree. Sorry, there's a long way of saying clarity. Yes, indeed. Clarity would be extremely helpful. And perhaps you would have some owners be willing to transact again.

40:11Carol Massar:However, a lot of owners still, you know, asset holders still have 2021 and peak pricing in mind. And so it's hard to let go. It's hard to reprice an asset lower, especially an income generating asset. So because they're income generating, you can hold on to them far, far, far longer than you would be able to otherwise. even if pricing theoretically should be lower if you were to sell. But you don't sell. You just hold on to it for years longer. But yes, hopefully greater clarity would be useful. But I would not say we're in a particularly clear environment right now. No. So clarity is not there.

40:48Carol Massar:And so volumes in terms of secondary market volume for commercial real estate in general is substantially lower than it was at the peak. So what are you doing? Are you not buying anything right now? So we are not buying a lot right now. No, the only deals that we're doing are situations where the seller is genuinely in distress. So if there's not outright distress, it's very, very hard to make the numbers pencil. And what we're focusing on instead is actually where the big, beautiful bill has created a short-term window of opportunity, which is solar development, interestingly enough. This is what I'm glad we're talking about this.

41:24It was in the notes. And our producer already said this on the phone. And I was thinking to myself, solar?

41:29Carol Massar:Yeah. Because the concern, and we saw this play out in the public markets, was that solar companies would get hit hard as a result of this bill. And they've been under a lot of pressure. Where are you seeing opportunity? They have been hit hard. And there is really very limited window for opportunity. So it's not great if you're full time in that business. But for us, we're a private credit lender to solar developers that might have a 20 or 30 development pipeline of projects. And it enables us as a lender to step in on a senior secured basis and identify and cherry pick really the best, most actionable, immediately actionable projects where we can get shovel in the ground right now and get and bring these projects to fruition.

42:15Carol Massar:Because very shortly, any investment tax credits are going to disappear. So it is about a short-term window, and for us, the opportunity is as a lender. Absolutely, this bill has been extremely problematic for the development industry and for generation of solar power in the United States. How short-term and what are the terms looking like? So we need shovels in the ground this year or by the middle of next year if there is no foreign content. and we need completion of the project by the end of 2027. Some of the rules are still to be finalized, actually. The Big Beautiful Bill obviously passed on the 4th of July.

42:56Carol Massar:But a week later, the Trump administration issued an executive order that the IRS has 45 days to clarify the rules. So interestingly enough, we're playing by a rule book that we don't fully have the details for. You talked about lack of clarity. Correct, lack of clarity. It hits a lot of different areas. That's right. But there is opportunity there. in the short to medium term for us to help those small to medium sized developers bring those rapidly deployable projects where we can get energy to the grid before the end of 2027 online immediately but they need capital and they're very profitable when you do it and that's that's where we see the short-term opportunity in development then do these product projects go poof well no the project will last for 20 but i mean new projects that's it if you have a 30 project pipeline, you might have five that you can bring to fruition.

43:46Carol Massar:You might have 25 that go poof. All because of tax credits. Correct. Now, there will be major changes that are going to occur. The cost of construction for solar projects, the EPC construction costs are highly likely over time to come down because if there's less development going on, those construction companies will reduce their costs. So there'll be opportunities there. There will also be opportunities for states that want to continue to incentivize solar to step in and provide credits where the federal government steps out. And then finally, the utilities themselves, which at the moment use the interconnection fee and other aspects of solar development to make money, they will probably compress their margins as well.

44:29Carol Massar:So there are a number of different moving levers. And then ultimately, the cost of electricity is going to go up. And that's going to be a huge driver of value. This is what I wanted to ask you. What are the projects that you are investing in? So the projects that we're lending money to are lending to forgive me exactly for clarity we're a private credit fund that lends money rather than investing equity right but those projects are below utility grade they're what are called community solar so they're usually in the five to fifty megawatt project size whereas community solar really kicks excuse me utility-grade solar kicks in above about 100 megawatts.

45:08Carol Massar:Those projects, because they are much more challenging and time-consuming to execute, a lot of those have gone, to use your words, poof, because they can't be delivered in that time frame. So there is a massive change in the demand, as we know, for solar as a result of AI, for electricity in general. But now there's a material change in supply for the negative. Before we let you go back to your focus on multifamily, in the past, you've been on with us and you've spoken excitedly about the Sunbelt. Where geographically are you thinking for opportunity now? We continue to see a lot of opportunity in small to medium sized cities across the Southeast, the Carolinas, Georgia, where these right-to-work states, where we're seeing a lot of new battery factories and other new factories being built.

46:03Carol Massar:It's those small to medium-sized markets where we continue to see a growth in demand, an increase in wages, an increase in job opportunities. And we're there to do our best to support that with housing. How would you describe the economy, just real quickly? The US economy? Strong jobs market, but a lot of lack of clarity around issues such as tariffs and rates that make it challenging for long-term deployment of capital. All right. Interesting. So it sounds like potentially a lot of stuff sitting on the sidelines just waiting for some clarity. We see that, certainly. All right. Good to check in with you.

46:38Carol Massar:Thank you for coming in. Thank you. Yeah, appreciate it. Thomas Carroll, he's founder and chief executive officer of Ballast Rock Asset Management, joining us right here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio.

46:52This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at 2 p.m. Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say, Alexa, play Bloomberg 1130.

47:10Carol Massar:Plenty ahead in our second hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week, including the luxury brand facing questions about how far is too far when it comes to exclusivity. Plus, really excited for this one because we get to speak to our Bloomberg food editor, Kate Crater. She's stopping by. She's talking about the boom in YouTube chefs. New York influence also pervades the food and drink scene in London. Apparently you can get a pretty good burger there these days, if you want it. Pizza too. Pizza, yeah. Kate's also going to share how CEOs optimize their sleep routine. I was surprised to see some of these CEOs are not doing a very good job.

47:45I was too.

47:46Carol Massar:I was amazed at how many. I expected like all these great like solutions. Also like lie about it if you're not doing a good job, CEOs. Come on, be a good example. This is part of your like brand. All right. And while on the subject of food and chefs, a 1960s diner is one of the scenes in a new high tech immersive show on Elvis Presley that unfortunately failed to impress. Elvis has left the building and it sounds like maybe our reviewer wanted to do so as well. We'll explain. It's all in Bloomberg Pursuits. First up this hour, the Starbucks pumpkin spice latte is set to return to stores. in just about a month.

48:18Carol Massar:Nuts. That's nuts. Come on. Seems nuts to me. August 26th. Summer's not even over. I think it's a little too soon to think about full. Do you say, sure, I'll have a pumpkin spice latte iced? I stay away from it, okay? Yeah, I do too. No matter what time of year it is. Speaking of the pumpkin spice latte, one of the most read stories over the last week is about the CEO who turned around Taco Bell and then turned around Chipotle. Can he now do the same for Starbucks? For Bloomberg Businessweek, Daniela Satori interviewed investors, baristas, and Brian Nickel. The newish CEO who was lured to Starbucks with a pay package valued at about$100 million.

48:52He's been on the job for a few months. It's September, so it's almost been a year, actually. The ceramic cups, a handful of made-over stores and condiment bars are some of the changes he's betting on. Oh, and protein, too. Daniela Sirtori is Bloomberg News restaurant reporter. She joins us from our Chicago bureau. She spent a lot of time with Brian Nichol. She did a lot of traveling for this story. Daniela, tell us a little bit about how Brian Nicol is doing in turning this company around. So there's definitely been some progress. You know, Starbucks has already made some changes, like bringing back the condiment bar so people don't have to, you know, complain to baristas about their drink being too sweet or too dark or too light.

49:32They've also started renovating some stores. You know, they started redesigning the menu. So definitely things that are going to make a difference. And, you know, they do say that people are hanging out in stores more because they want to bring back that feeling of, you know, it being like a coffee house and that they're ordering more coffee centric drinks. But some of the big things, you know, in terms of operations, which is such a boring word, but it matters so much when it comes to getting your drink quickly, are still being developed. Like, for example, the company is in the process of putting more workers in stores, which they are hoping will, you know, speed up service and then also, you know, give braces a little time to, you know, have a chat with you.

50:08But some of these big changes are still in the works. And so, you know, it's definitely a work in progress. And Brian himself has said that. Well, we'll get to more on Brian in a second. But one thing that I really liked about your piece was it did a good job of laying out the challenges that Starbucks has faced in recent years. Can you talk a little bit about how it lost its way? Absolutely. So, you know, we can look back at sort of the pandemic. one of the things that happened was the company moved a lot to sort of that convenience-focused model, right? A lot of us weren't going to stores. Stores weren't even open.

50:42And so Starbucks actually started removing seats from stores. At the same time, you know, there was this unionization movement ignited by several things, you know, like baristas feeling like there was understaffing. All of that led to slower service at the company. Lines just have gotten very long. At the same time, people are like, well, this doesn't feel like a cafe anymore. And then, you know, we also have some issues outside of the U.S., right? So, for example, China has been very slow to recover because of the company's, sorry, because of the country's economic situation and also just competitors that have undercut Starbucks.

51:18And so there are challenges on multiple fronts that the company has to confront right now.

51:24Carol Massar:You know, it's interesting. I try to think about what it is that Starbucks has to deal with. They really kicked off, right? Kind of the coffee craze, right? And, you know, not just getting a cup of coffee from a deli, but made it so much more. But the market that they really created is now a really crowded market. So is it just that it can't be just about coffee anymore and that Starbucks has to mean something beyond that? Like food, a cafe, you hang around and you bring the family. Like, what is it that it may be? What do industry folks say it needs to be? Is it or is it just painting the cafes and making them cozier?

52:05Carol Massar:What is it? No, that's absolutely right. I mean, Starbucks created this idea of sort of the third place, right? Beyond, you know, your work and your home where you could hang out and also making coffee a little bit premium here in the U.S. But there's been a lot of competition that has undercut the company in terms of price, in terms of speed, and also in terms of new products. You know, if you look at places like Dutch Bros, they just have these drinks like protein coffee drinks that really appeal to demographics like Gen Z. And at the same time, you know, they've kind of pioneered a model of convenience.

52:40So it is almost like all of the above, right? Like one of the things that when you talk to Brian Nicol, he wants to make sure Starbucks stands out is by having the space, you know, having the coffee shop where you can hang out. That is something that, you know, those drive-thru concepts like Dutch Bros don't really have because by definition they are drive-thru. But at the same time, they also need to make sure that they have stuff that actually gets people in the door. And so that's why they've been also redesigning the menu. They are trying to focus on coffee because that's their heritage. And so they think that they can sort of distinguish themselves that way.

53:13But at the same time, they are adding those twists like that vanilla latte with the protein cold foam. I actually got to try it in Vegas. It's quite it's quite interesting. But, you know, it's like they can't they can't go super focused on like purest coffee. They also recognize they need to have stuff that actually like catches people's eye, if that makes sense.

53:35Carol Massar:Daniela, I'm curious, too, about Brian Nicol. He has been so quiet. I mean, Tim and I have talked to him a lot when he was at Chipotle. He was very accessible. I've done some deep dives, too, with him for Businessweek magazine and for Bloomberg. I'm just curious, why is he kind of laying low? It's interesting, the perception that he's laying low. I mean, I guess from my perspective, you know, since Brian joined, he's been pretty clear about his vision and his plan. So I remember he joined September 9. September 10, he actually came out with the broad outlines of his plan. And by October, they were putting him on the phone to talk to reporters about what was happening at the company.

54:22I do think that part of what's happening is that while his vision is clear in terms of what he wants to accomplish, I mean, he knows he wants to bring back the coffee house. He wants to focus on coffee. He wants to speed up service. sometimes the underlying tactics are changing a little bit. And so the sort of direction of travel is clear. But just to give you an example, earlier this year, Starbucks said that they were going to bring more staffing to about a third of U.S. company-operated stores. So that excludes stuff like airports. It excludes targets. Then later they were like, no, actually it's coming to all stores.

55:00Probably part of it was a little bit of pressure from investors being like, all right, man, when are we going to start seeing results? But the tactics and sort of like the speed are changing a little bit, even though everyone knows like the direction of travel, if that makes sense. Yeah, it does. You mentioned the changing menu and to get people into the door. What I learned from your story is that's a big part of Tressie Lieberman's job. Tell us about her. So Tressie worked with Brian at Chipotle and Taco Bell, actually. She told us that she's been working with Brian since she was in like her 20s.

55:37So she knows Brian quite a bit. And so she came over right before Starbucks. She was actually a chief marketing officer at Yahoo. So she has broad experience. And so her remit is marketing. So how the company presents itself to customers, including the sort of rebranding as Starbucks coffee company, but also the menu, because I think they recognize that, yes, the company has had some hits, like, for example, cold foam, things like shaken espresso. One of the ways to know if something's been ahead is if competitors have copied it. And if you go to any coffee shop, any coffee shop has those things.

56:12But at the same time, there were things they launched, like, for example, energy drinks last year that they've discontinued because they just didn't think were up to par. And so that's kind of what Tressie's doing. And she's described wanting to make the menus sort of modern and premium. And so one of some of the things they're looking at is like the protein latte and also bringing fresh baking to Starbucks. Because I don't know if this is common knowledge, but pastries at Starbucks coming up plastic bag that then gets reheated in an oven. so that doesn't really fit a definition of premium uh which is you know they're trying to justify the prices that they are that they are charging and they're trying to justify the experience so that's sort of the direction that they're moving we'll say they're little egg bites i think are something my daughter really like people love these they're popular i know right yeah they're kind of nice and if you see that it's another example of starbucks setting a trend that has caught on like even costco sells egg bites yeah so can i ask you something wait because

57:11Carol Massar:I would say that we're a couple different, three different generations. Do you go to Starbucks? I do, but I also cover it. So sometimes I just go to see how things are. Okay. So, okay. Tim, Tim doesn't go. I will not go unless I'm falling asleep at the wheel and it's the only place. Right. So I think - So why not, Tim? You do go? You do go? No, I don't go. I don't like the coffee. And would you go if you didn't? I mean, this might be uncomfortable, but would you go just between the three of us if you didn't cover it? Just between the three of us in front of everyone. I think I'm going to refrain from answering that question.

57:42You're the smartest one here because you're not getting yourself in trouble.

57:45Carol Massar:Like there's lots of choices. But I will say I only have one cup of coffee a day. I know. And I have to have it at home because I can't do anything. There's a little bit of a prima. Well, the thing is, I don't know. I mean, I used to drink. I used to drink the coffee. Yeah. But then you move to New York and you're like the options for coffee here. It's nuts. Are unbelievable. There's so many. Yeah. I like a French press at home. um but don't you know people go charlie pellet goes every day i know katie greifeld goes every day i think he now likes that i think that's the question right there is a loyal base of customers and some of the moves that starbucks has made uh you know in in recent months you know they changed their rewards program they've just changed a lot about the experience does that keep the loyal customers or not and then at the same time does it bring new people like you know maybe brian will do something that will actually get tim to come into door no it's not gonna happen and it's just no not gonna happen it's just not if it's like a chipotle or if it's like a chipotle bowl or a doritos locos taco then maybe 20 maybe um i don't know what if what if he improves the food that is also part of i know he's trying to do exactly right like you go in and right you increase that like individual uh purchase hey 25 seconds china they are looking at us selling a steak there that is the latest information that we have um because recovery has been tough and they want a local partner there to help them figure out what to do because that's an important part of growth, right, for them?

59:07Second largest market after North America. And they say they believe in it. So we'll see.

59:13Carol Massar:Final question. Pumpkin spice latte, too early. August 26th, too early, right? I don't know if it's earlier than other years, but it's not fall. It's definitely not fall. But I think it's early and earlier because it does give them a big sales bump. So maybe that's why. Definitely not fall. Daniela Satori joining us, Bloomberg News restaurant reporter. Great story on the Starbucks CEO. It's a Businessweek story. Check it out. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 p.m. Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.

59:45Or watch us live on YouTube.

59:48Carol Massar:Tiffany's salespeople call them the watch monsters. Oh, my God. Salespeople always have words for their customers. The obsessives, the ultra-wealthy shoppers who are sure they would be among the chosen few to get their hands on the rare limited edition Patek Philippe timepiece. But what began as a celebration of the iconic jeweler and watchmaker has evolved into a cautionary tale, a lesson in how exclusivity, if mishandled, can dim the glow of luxury. Jeanette Newman is Bloomberg News' consumer reporter. She wrote all about how Tiffany turned their best customers into their loudest critics. She joined Tim and Bloomberg News' equities reporter Nora Melinda.

1:00:27This watch was particularly coveted and particularly special. So if let's say you wanted to just go in and buy the watch, you couldn't just walk in off the street and say, you know, I love Patek Philippe. I want this very special watch. There were only 170 of them made. you would express interest in the watch. And then you would be told, OK, Tiffany salespeople would tell you, we'll get back to you. And that's because this watch was very highly, very highly desired. And so there were many people who were trying to get it. And it was ultimately, as we reported, the discretion of Tiffany executives who ended up getting the 170 watches.

1:01:10And that discretion is really where things got complicated for some of the folks who were argue, at least in lawsuits, that they were longtime customers of Tiffany and spent quite a bit of money at Tiffany. What did you find in your reporting? So in the reporting, what I found is that and I think it would it would also be helpful if you if you find it helpful to just to kind of situate, you know, this moment. So we have to go back in time a little bit just to understand why this watch was the watch at the time and why now, even a couple of years later, we're talking about it. I'm reporting on it because it's the sale of the watch is still having repercussions today.

1:01:51So this this watch that was made by Batek Philippe was started, was went on sale in December 2021. And if you'll remember that at that time, we many people were feeling, you know, flush. We had, you know, extra pandemic savings. Some people still had some money left over from the stimulus checks. A lot of people were buying luxury goods. Demand for luxury goods was going through the roof. That included luxury watches. Some said at the time there was actually a bit of a watch bubble. People who maybe hadn't been interested in watches before all of a sudden got very interested in spending their pandemic savings on these luxury watches like Patek Philippe.

1:02:30So at this time, Patek Philippe says, OK, actually, we're going to discontinue one of the most beloved watches in the world, their 5711 model, which is the Nautilus 5711 model. They said, we're going to discontinue it. At that time, the watch world freaked out. It was a huge deal that amid this kind of watch bubble, one of the biggest, one of the most important watchmakers in the world says, we're no longer going to sell the watch that everybody loves. And then they said, okay, so that caught everybody off guard. And then they caught people off guard again by saying, actually, there's going to be one final swan song for the 5711 line.

1:03:09We're going to make 170 of these very special edition watches to honor the 170 years that Patek Philippe and Tiffany had been working together. So an incredibly longstanding relationship in the luxury world. So Patek made 170 of these watches. And what was different was, as you said, the dial was in that kind of in that signature Tiffany blue, which is actually a patented color. If you go to the stores, everyone knows the Tiffany boxes are in that color. Now, Patek doesn't have that many retail stores, so it relies on Tiffany and other jewelers to sell its watches. So in the case of this blue dial watch, it was Tiffany that was tasked with selling the watches.

1:03:54And as you said, that's where things got a little bit complicated. So there was basically Tiffany, Tiffany executives realized that there was so much demand for these watches that they could encourage clients to spend between two to three million dollars on jewelry in order to even get a shot. Wow. And this is called as you as I learned reading your piece, this is called bundling. And it's something that is typically done, but there are no it's they're not real rules around it. It's kind of like understood, but not always in writing. It's typically done in high-end stores with luxury items. Explain that.

1:04:38Exactly. It's not it's all it's all very informal. I think, you know, talking talking to some people for this story, people would often mention, oh, right, that's kind of what you have to do if you want to get. Similarly, you can't walk off the street and just buy a Birkin bag. Often what customers will say is you have to you're encouraged to buy other other goods in order to then get access to that to that to that Birkin bag. And that's, again, what some people in the industry call bundling. Other people call it tying. I would say one potential difference with that is, you know, if you walk into an Hermes store and they're telling you to, you know, potentially telling you to consider buying some other goods in order to be considered for a Birkin, that's kind of all within the confines of one store, right?

1:05:25one and one brand. I think the difference here is that you had Tiffany, which was selling Patek watches, encouraging its clients to buy Tiffany jewelry in order to get access to the Patek watch. So explain the alienation of some customers, these wealthy customers who expected to be able to buy this watch after spending money at Tiffany, but according to your reporting, ultimately weren't able to do that. Right. And there was definitely some frustration based on our reporting, based on sources that we talked to with the sale of this watch. And I think, I mean, one kind of specific element that might be interesting to listeners is so there was a charity auction of the watch in December 2021.

1:06:15And the watch went for a staggering$6.5 million, which is about 100 times its retail value. The watch itself only, obviously a lot for so many of us, but the watch itself only cost around$53 ,000 and it sold for$6.5 million. That initial sale fell through. The watch ultimately exchanged hands for$6.2 million. Still a lot of money. People who were interested in the watch saw that sale and said, well, this is a no-brainer investment. If I can get access to something that costs$53 ,000 and then potentially sell it for the market is showing that there's demand of up to$6 million, well, that seems like a no-brainer investment.

1:06:59So what some of our sources said is that some people, again, saw that as a no-brainer investment and said, OK, well, if I'm being encouraged to spend$2 to$3 million on jewelry, that might be worth it because I think that I can resell the watch. Now, the thing about that auction is, in general, charity auctions, longtime collectors will look at charity auctions with a bit of a skeptical eye because sometimes, for example, the watchmakers themselves are involved in the bidding. So seeing that$6.5 million price as kind of a market price versus a price that's, you know, maybe more marketing oriented, I think was part of the issue, according to our sources and according to our reporting.

1:07:50And then what happened to answer your question is people thinking the watch was worth this much. some of them did get the watch and then over time over the over 2020 um 2022 and into 2023 the value of the watch really fell and now the watch um sells in the secondary market for around 1.2 million dollars um so obviously a very a very big drop still a very expensive a very expensive very valuable watch um but not what um people who were encouraged to you know spend spend money on jewelry we're expecting for this investment. And also to be fair, and I'm sure if you have friends who buy watches, there's all kinds, right?

1:08:34I mean, some people buy watches, it's buy and hold or, and there's some people who want to buy and sell. Other people bought the watch and never even didn't see it as a no-brainer investment or otherwise because they didn't see it as an investment, right? They saw it as I want to buy and hold this because I love this watch and I want have it others um the ones who were disappointed by the decline in the price uh we're seeing it as more of an investment that they could potentially flip at least have the option to flip jeanette based on your experience covering the luxury space is this normal are mishaps mishandlings like this common i think um you know in in this story at the end of the story we mentioned um i spoke to an anesthesiologist who um what he what he told us he told a story of how He was trying to buy some Ferraris.

1:09:23He had one Ferrari that he really wanted, and he bought several Ferraris in order to try to get that Ferrari, and he never got that. Ferrari declined to comment on his kind of specific experience and said it doesn't encourage that kind of behavior. This anesthesiologist said that he's come across that game in the luxury world. and honestly he's the way he said it is he's kind of he's kind of sick of it so i think that is a potential risk in the in the luxury world that um some people some people like to engage in this game and i think others find it um tiring i would say speaking to um some people who sell watches on the on the secondary market one of the things that they say is they they find that some of their clients come to them because they just want to be able to like what's tell me the price and then I'll buy it or I won't.

1:10:19I don't want to get involved in trying to spend money on X, Y, and Z that I might not even want in order to get what I actually do want. So I do think it definitely happens in the luxury world. And people can choose to continue to engage with it or say, that's not for me. Jeanette, a great story. I learned a ton, including maybe I should have considered a career in anesthesiology. Sounds like it, right? Considering that this anesthesiologist has bought, what, five Ferraris or something? I swear. Really, really good stuff. Check out this story. It is the most read story on the Bloomberg Terminal.

1:10:56The headline, you really can't beat it. Tiffany Angers rich clients who wanted to buy a rare, the tech watch.

1:11:10This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at 2 p.m. Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg 1130.

1:11:28Carol Massar:Julia Child, Gordon Ramsay, Emeril Lagasse, Rachel Ray. These are just some of the many celebrity chefs that make a living cooking on television. Well, now the next generation of chefs are turning to YouTube, even TikTok, to learn new skills and establish their culinary reputations. Plus, New York City vibes in London restaurants. That and a lot more from the Bloomberg Pursuits team. With us right now, the editor of Bloomberg Pursuits, Chris Rouds, or also Bloomberg Pursuits food editor, Kate Crater. She is not in London. She's here in New York City in the studio with us, Carol. I can't even tell you how much we've been talking about this all week.

1:12:06Carol Massar:We're like, Chris and Kate. We group hugs already. We spent a bunch of time catching up. We were supposed to be taping 10 minutes ago. Now we've got to do work. Now we've got to do work. We do. All right. We're going to talk a lot of food in a moment because there's so many stories that we want to get to. But first up, Chris, we just want to talk a little bit about green watches. Yes, the most important news. There's a new color on watches, you guys. How does this happen? How does the watch industry all of a sudden go green? You know, it's funny. watches um there are not that many trends that can take over watches there's like different styles of watches different metals sometimes different colors and then it can every once in a while there's like a big blue year or a big green year and there's lots of stories and everyone sort of collects these certain things and this year there is a wave of pistachio colored watches and this is interesting only because or it's interesting because there's it's not that bold of a color it's kind of a subtle color it doesn't pop off your wrist and it's not traditionally a color that people like in watches.

1:13:05But we've seen everything from Rolex to Hublot to Parmigiani to Oris all have watches this year in this color. And it's like they talk to each other, but they didn't.

1:13:15Carol Massar:That's what I find crazy. Kate, would you wear a green watch? I absolutely would, especially if Chris told me which one to wear. And I want to know which of those pistachio watches you have, Chris. Well, I have good news for you, Kate. There is a price range, and it ranges from about$6 ,000 per watch all the way up to$2.3 million per watch. You just helped me make that decision. How can you have a$24 ,000 watch with a rubber strap? I'm just asking. Yeah, that's a good question. Some people really like the rubber strap. What about a$2.3 million watch with a rubber strap? Exactly. Because there is one of those.

1:13:48Yeah, so that's a Richard Mille watch. And that's sort of what these things cost. These Richard Mille watches are the billionaire's handshake, they call them. And this one is a flying tourbillon sapphire. It's a big, chunky thing. It's the kind of watch that Kendall Roy wears on Succession. The most popular one will be the Rolex Oyster Perpetual, which everyone's killing themselves to get this pistachio green color. My favorite is a Parmigiani watch, which is a skeleton in a beautiful slate green color. It is not affordable. I will not be buying it. It's affordable to some people. It's$70 ,000, but it's extremely beautiful, and you should look at the story online to check it out.

1:14:28But there's more inexpensive ones like Oris has a cool one for$4 ,000. And Norcane, which is a very cool, sporty new company that we've covered, has one for$6 ,000.

1:14:37Carol Massar:All right. All right. When I think of green and when you said pistachio, I thought of ice cream and other things. So let's go to food now. YouTube. Yay. I have to say, I can't tell you how many times we are when we're looking to cook something. We go to YouTube or social to figure out. Sounds like there's a whole new generation of chefs. I was going to say, you could be a professional chef right now, Carol, the way you're talking. I could not. Well, let's see. You know what? You never know. Just watch a couple more videos. No, it's kind of it's like this seismic shift. A couple decades ago, you know, people would would professional chefs or want to be professional chefs would want to train in a kitchen like a Thomas Keller kitchen or a Bobby Flay kitchen.

1:15:18Carol Massar:And now they don't even need to do that. They just turn on their computer and watch some videos. And sooner or later, they can actually open up their own place it's been to me it's a seismic shift it's amazing you have this great anecdote about james lowe and wanting to i don't even know what the right term is but like filet a tuna yeah is that what it is um butcher i think you would say butcher butcher a tuna okay if you want to try this at home tim yeah butcher i think i think he would be butcher easier said than done truth total truth yeah no he's a he's a very british chef and there hadn't been tuna in his neck of the woods since he'd started cooking.

1:15:56Carol Massar:He had like a 30-year career. And then all of a sudden, or whatever, because of the way that the government was able to manage the waters, tuna became available in Cornwall. And all of a sudden, it became a sort of local ingredient for him. And so he bought one and then realized, now what? Because he'd never, ever butchered one before and so he and his team sat there and watched youtube and then carried a 400 pound piece of fish or whole fish into their kitchen like it took over their dining room they'd watched hours and hours um and he said it was a process that took he said it was a process that took hours but um it's so funny to picture just a huge well there is a picture if you look at the story there's this crazy like that literally took over five tables of their dining room like that's how big the fishes they didn't have the knives to do it you know it was it's it's amazing story maybe because it's the 50th anniversary of jaws but i saw this and it looked like a shark like all i could think about was the shark in jaws it's massive so 30 years ago he would have had to fly to japan or uh buy cookbooks or or or make a lot of mistakes yeah no expensive mistakes precisely yeah no i think or he would have just brought somebody in who knew how to do it but But yeah, no, just think about like, even if you're looking at the most detailed manual of a cookbook, it only takes you so far when you're presented with this fish.

1:17:21I don't know. I do this all the time, not for cooking, for anything that I have to build that comes with an instruction booklet. I'm not good with the diagrams, the instruction booklets. I got to watch a YouTube video. And fortunately, those exist for everything.

1:17:33Carol Massar:Tim, you can open up a restaurant with Carol. I was more thinking about assembling children's toys, which is why I was looking at Chris, because I know he does the same thing. You know what's crazy? I don't cook. I'm not a great cook. It's a joke in my complete family. But I'll be on Instagram and like people making things. And I just find it really relaxing and soothing. It's pretty amazing. Yeah. I was just going to say it's actually cool because in London where I'm based right now, these pizza chefs, there was this whole thing during the pandemic. A couple people who weren't so happy with their jobs started watching pizza videos because there were all this US style pizza all of a sudden available.

1:18:07Carol Massar:or like it became, there were all these videos from like Dave Portnoy, Barstool and stuff like that. And now there's a couple newly minted pizza makers in London, thanks to YouTube. And they're very hot, very popular. They're very popular. Pizza, don't cut against pizza. Perfect segue to talk about pizza in London. Usually we talk about pizza in New York City, but Kate, you've got a story out that's talking about a kind of vibe of New York City taking over London restaurants. When I think of food in London, I think of really good Indian food and then of course the classics fish and chips and the like but apparently you can get a good pizza there now yeah no you are um you're absolutely right and it's it's it feels a bit ironic because you know the u.s brand isn't so so hot over over in the uk and europe and um tourism is way down here i think it's down it's going to be down by 2.5 million people they estimate in new york city by the end of the year and yet new york vibes are super hot in london and it's got to do with steak.

1:19:06Carol Massar:Like you, if you go somewhere now, you'll see a cheeseburger on an ambitious menu, which you never would have seen before. And steaks and oysters. But it's also an energy, which is the part that I think is really fascinating. The Brits aren't used to being spontaneous. If you know any Brits, like you will probably co-sign on that. But we love all of you who watch and listen to us. Yes, yay you, yay you guys. But now, so they traditionally haven't had walk-ins at restaurants. And now a lot of these cool, super cool London restaurants have places for walk-ins, but it's also an energy. It's the way they arrange their tables.

1:19:40Carol Massar:So instead of there being like rows and rows of tables and chairs, they turn the chairs in different directions, and that literally changes the energy in the room. Kate, many people, multiple, two people, forwarded me this story and asked me, does that mean that the martinis are bigger? Are they bigger in London? Are they still thimble-sized? No, they're pretty modest. I think if your friends are doing a measurement, they will say that. But there's a big, I think the thing that this story inspired the most debate on is where the martini's from because technically and historically, or not technically, but the history is a bit fuzzy, but it's supposedly from the Knickerbocker Hotel in New York City and that makes Brits very, very mad.

1:20:23Carol Massar:You can get a Cosmo in London now. Yes, you can. Wow. I'm just saying. True story. Who'da thunk? Who'da thunk? Just, where do we want to go? Where do we want to go? We want to go to sleep. Oh. So this story, both Tim and I talked about this. We're like, okay, there were some good strategies, but there are a lot of CEOs who don't seem like they've got this under control. So we do this feature every month in Business Week where we call it the CEO diet. We talk to a bunch of CEOs. Kate is in charge of it. Thankless task. And she talks to a bunch of CEOs about their habits and what they do, what they eat, what they drink, what they do in the morning.

1:20:55And so this month we did how to optimize your sleep, which CEOs are, everyone wants to know, and they have a lot of thoughts about.

1:21:02Carol Massar:Yeah, they do. No, it's kind of amazing. The CEO of Dogfish says he takes a bath underneath a picture of Andre 3000. Playing a flute. Playing a flute. Sorry, yeah, thanks for that detail. Which is why he finds creepy. Which freaks his wife out, and that's why they have separate bathrooms. the CEO of Uber which is a very famously data oriented company says he used to be obsessed with data and like compete against himself every night and now he just puts away all the screens and goes to sleep and that to me is super ironic that is so telling my husband is obsessed with data too and he'll be like I got a 67 or I got a 75 I'm like well how do you feel he's like I don't know i got a 75 um but what was amazing there were so many folks that i thought who was it um peter mcginnis uh chobani well formerly of chobani carol you and i've spoken him quite a bit now he's at impossible foods yeah he's basically says maybe i should get more sleep he's not good at it yeah that's that doesn't surprise you though right like ceos you think of like never sleeping and not maybe just like but that was like 10 or 15 years ago yeah now now sleeping is cool like like now sleeping is cool being healthy is like in right now that's what it feels like that's exactly right i think you used to brag about the minimal amount of sleep you needed and now you're like look at me 67 75 or now if you don't get a good night's sleep if you're changing time zones too many times it's something you know that you sort of agonize over and say like i need to get better at it.

1:22:35Carol Massar:Yeah, I love the guy. Was it the head of Vito Coco? I think he talked about napping a lot. Yeah. 40 minutes nap. A 40 minute nap every single day. Hey Tim, before we start our show, we'll just tell everybody, hey, we're going to take a nap. See how that feels. I don't know, Chris, when was the last time you got to take a bath for 30 minutes? No, I haven't taken a bath in years. I mean, I think about it. It makes me want to cry. Thinking about it. The Rainy Williams from Beverly Hills Estates, the CEO, I thought had good advice. It was like usable lots of stuff yeah i take magnesium zinc and atp along with a cortisol balancer to help regulate stress levels which i would really like i don't know i have to find out what that is and that's just the start she says and then she takes a relaxing shower full skin care and self-care regimen she's doing it right and a right a red light mask right to be honest like her answer was twice as long as this this is a this is an edited version of what she does like she's doing it right.

1:23:32Carol Massar:Can I just tell you, I went down a rabbit hole on those red light masks. Here's my routine before I go to bed. Clean up everything that my kids have taken out that day. Clean up, do all the dishes. Start making lunches for them for the next day. And then look at my phone. Yeah, that's about what mine is. Alright. No sound bath? No sound bath. Or maybe what you should do is go see this new Elvis show in London. It could put you to sleep, yeah. Only got about a minute or so here. Sarah Rappaport, she did a review. Didn't seem like she liked it, Chris. There's a show called Elvis Evolution in London right now, which everybody is loving to hate.

1:24:19Only fools rush in. Audiences are not all shook up. So Sarah went and we have been excited about this show because it was supposed to be AI. It was supposed to be like the ABBA voyage. So like there you were going to see Elvis, you know, like a new incarnation of Elvis interacting with the audience. And that's not what it is. It's like you walk in. It's an immersive experience. It's a tour. So you start in a diner and then there's actors and then you go to like a bar. And then at the end, you see a video of Elvis on stage. And people are Sarah says it's quite disappointing. People are asking for their money back.

1:24:54It's 300 pounds for VIP tickets. One older guy got really mad during the show and started complaining loudly. And then security tackled him and took him out. And they canceled the rest of the shows for the evening. It is. It's terrible. Yeah. It's not.

1:25:09Carol Massar:How can you make Elvis bad? Well, I guess there's probably a reason they started it in London. See the show and you'll know, Carol. And not in the US. I know how you can. Kate, you're going to have to go see it. Really? Really? just for work we'll take that we'll take that as a no this has been such a treat you guys made our week thank you so much so appreciate it thank you guys thank you our thanks to Chris Rauser the editor of Bloomberg Pursuits and to Bloomberg Pursuits food editor Kate Crater and that wraps up the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio thank you so much for joining us I'm Tim Stenebeck and I'm Carol Masser have a good and safe weekend be sure to check out Pursuits just to see the big was it a tuna it was a tuna it was a tuna just to see that picture alone is pretty wild.

1:25:53This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 p.m. Eastern on Bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, TuneIn, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.

1:26:20you