Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - October 31st, 2025

22:13Yeah, I think the question that I have is what happens, Josh, or yeah, Josh, I mean, what happens to the companies that do not get investments from the United States? What about competitors in the space, whether we're talking about quantum computing companies or we're talking about rare earth miners or we're talking about metal producers? What happens to those? I mean, this is the question of the sort of handful of conservatives who are willing to speak aloud what a larger number of conservatives have long and always believed and probably still believe, which is that they don't feel comfortable with presidents of either stripe picking winners and losers, right?

22:50This used to be something that the Republican Party, you know, this was not a tree that they were barking up all that often. And so Trump has changed the calculus in so many ways. So I think there's a few things swirling here. Number one, of course, how far will it go? We just don't know. And it's also unclear whether Congress, including but not limited to Republicans, would start, you know, sticking its head up and saying, hey, wait a minute, in particular with how they're interpreting the CHIPS Act, which was a bipartisan bill that in the eyes of the lawmakers behind it set out the rules of what you can and can't do.

23:21And number two is, OK, well, this is the new reality. And if the Republican Party is really moving on this, where does it go from here? And if the next president's a Democrat decides to take it further than this, you know, or even roll it back, it's just really up in the air right now. But President Trump has made it clear, as has Secretary Lutnik, that they're both interested in this sort of idea of like getting skin in the game or getting something in exchange for taxpayer support. They call it, you know, they see it basically as a fairness issue. You do not get the support of the government if we're not getting something out of it ourselves.

23:51And so I think there's no sign that it's going to slow down right now with this administration. Joe, you cover economic statecraft. You've spent many years covering metals and mining. You understand rare earths. This is sort of the perfect cross section of what you've been focused on for your career. But if we think about now the Trump administration taking investment in many different types of industries from tech to metals to rare earths. What are people talking about could be next? Everything. I mean, I mean, throw Intel in there, right? Yeah. I mean, this is the great experiment when, you know, Josh and I and Ryan, we had the terrific scoop that Intel was suddenly on the map for an equity stake.

24:33Right. I think I think that really got the attention of investors in a way that like MP materials and critical minerals had not. I mean, the kind of scale you're talking about with Intel shows you how big this administration is willing to think in terms of using the full force of the United States federal government to put into motion the things it thinks are important. And where we go from here, I mean, the phone calls that I sometimes have with Josh and others saying, hey, we should look at this thing, it is wild. And wild is being reportable. That was Bloomberg News Economic Statecraft reporter Joe Doe and Bloomberg News senior White House correspondent Josh Wingrove.

25:15Carol Massar:And speaking of NVIDIA, it's also partnered with yet another company this week. The AI chipmaker took a 2.9 % stake in Nokia using its chips to boost Nokia's software for 5G and 6G networks. Bloomberg's Ed Ludlow sitting down with the CEOs of both NVIDIA and Nokia following that announcement. And here is some of that conversation with Jensen Wong and Justin Hotard. If we take advantage of this transition from general purpose computing to accelerated computing, from old types of software to AI, we can take advantage of this transition of AI and 6G for America to win back telecommunications again.

25:52It's been a long time since the American telecommunication network has been built on American technology. You used the word national security, I believe. For national security reasons, for economic reasons, our industry should be built on American technology. And for the very first time, we can do that. We have a brand new product line that takes advantage of computing, accelerated computing and AI. And we have a great partner to help us do it with Nokia. There was a time when Nokia was already looking to America. You've been in the role since April. But may I start by asking you what role the administration played in bringing you both together if this is indeed a strategic priority?

26:26I don't think there was anything specific that the administration did other than they've created the environment to support innovation. I mean, Jensen's talked about manufacturing, but it's also about R &D and innovation and technology leadership. And if you think about where this world is going and all those incredible devices that are going to be built on NVIDIA platforms, robotics, autonomous vehicles, augmented reality, virtual reality, we need a different kind of network in the future. And that's what we realized. And that's why we wanted to forge this partnership so that we're building a network leveraging AI for AI services.

27:02And that's really the big change here. The technology is flowing both ways. I mean, what is it that you will be able to do with Nokia, Jensen, that you weren't able to do on your own? Well, first of all, Nokia is in all of the world's base stations. And this air scale platform of Nokia is in millions of base stations around the world. If our computers are not inside that base station, it doesn't help. It's no different than NVIDIA's tech computing platforms not inside a car. It doesn't help. And so the first thing is we need a partner to get us into the world's space stations. We also, remember, we're bringing AI to radio networks, AI to RAM, so that we can make wireless tech communications a lot more efficient.

27:39Second, we're bringing AI for the radio, meaning on top of these radio networks and these telecommunication network, we're going to be able to provide AI services, which is going to be able to make it easier for us to do robotics and autonomous vehicles and industrial automation and reach all of the different places around the world. That's kind of hard to do with Wi-Fi. Cellular reads everything. And so we now have this fabric that we can deploy AI computing services on top of. It's going to be completely revolutionary. That's NVIDIA CEO Jensen Wong and Nokia CEO Justin Hotard speaking with Bloomberg's Ed Ludlow this week about their new partnership that has NVIDIA taking a nearly 3 % stake in Nokia.

28:21Carol Massar:Now, I think what's interesting too this past week, we did have a big NVIDIA event, the GTC event in Washington, D.C. that they held. And we heard from Jensen Wong, right? The CEO of NVIDIA about a lot of stuff and a lot of things that move, certainly the share price of NVIDIA to the upside this past week, but a lot about relationships that it is forging and continues. But he did also say that the government has not offered to take a stake in their company, NVIDIA. Well, first of all, Carol, can we afford it? Well, that's a good question. Where does this money come from? Obviously, we could. We could afford it.

28:56But we're talking about a market cap company that this week hit$5 trillion for the first time ever. It's also a little different than some of the other companies that the U.S. has taken a stake in. It's not struggling. It basically prints cash. It has this incredible moat with its technology that AMD and Qualcomm are trying to catch up with. Right. And others. So to me, it doesn't seem like the type of target that the U.S. Like it doesn't need the U.S.'s help. Right. Doesn't need the support. It doesn't need the support.

29:32Carol Massar:Didn't it hit five trillion market cap this week? Yeah. I guess it's doing OK. Oh, you did say that. I just think it bears repeating. I'm just going to say I do listen to you, Tim. Hey, the other thing we should mention about when it comes to NVIDIA, this was serious. President Trump saying he didn't discuss approving sales of NVIDIA's Blackwell chips to China with his counterpart, President Xi Jinping. And that was one of the things that was part of these supposed to be part of the U.S.-China trade talks. But it was interesting. It was a big thing that was missing from whatever agreement they seemed to come to.

30:05Well, speaking of trade, given the trade tensions between the U.S. and many other parts of the world over this year, some furniture makers have taken a big hit as a result of those tariffs. And the president says he does want to make more furniture here in the United States.

30:20Carol Massar:That'll be good. That means I can buy more furniture. I hope my husband isn't listening. No, it means it's going to be more expensive. Darn. There is some beautiful stuff out of North Carolina, though. There is. There always is. Hey, listen, we've got a great look at consumer spending, at least when it comes to things like couches, pillows, rugs. and all that good stuff, you know, home furnishings. The CFO of Wayfair, she joins us next. It still remains for us that the consumer is quite focused on promotional events. And so she, you know, our consumer is typically a woman, you know, mass market, and she needs those promotional events to really come in off the sidelines and get excited to shop.

30:56Carol Massar:We've talked in the past about, you know, how the promotional events really work as a marketing banner to get someone interested in the category and to then bring them into the site. And that is still the case. Those promotional events are pretty necessary to get the consumer engaged and excited. This is Bloomberg. The thing about AI for business, it may not automatically fit the way your business works. At IBM, we've seen this firsthand. But by embedding AI across HR, IT, and procurement processes, we've reduced costs by millions, slash repetitive tasks and free thousands of hours for strategic work.

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34:23Carol Massar:Restrictions and limitations apply. Cards are issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank N.A. Member FDIC. This is Bloomberg Business Week Daily with Carol Masser and Tim Stenevek on Bloomberg Radio. Assuming the U.S. Central Bank would follow its second straight interest rate cut with another in December. Fed officials are divided about how much to ease as the ongoing government shutdown limits the economic data, usually at the basis of the rate's decision. It's not only that there's division, it's not even about how much to ease. Some think there shouldn't be any easing. Policymakers did, though, receive a delayed report last week on the Consumer Price Index.

35:03And the whole reason we got this report, Carol, Social Security cost of living.

35:07Carol Massar:Yeah, totally. I mean, these are important things. So it's like a one-off. Well, you know, yes, yes. But it's also like those folks are voters. And so you kind of don't want to mess around with them. That report, though, did show that underlying inflation rose in September at the slowest pace in three months. Is inflation slowing consumer spending? And is it affecting earnings? Good couple of questions there. We've got a great look at one slice of how consumers are shopping. Wayfair reported third quarter results that easily topped expectations. On the call, company management gave guidance for the current quarter that topped consensus estimates.

35:40Carol Massar:And they spent a lot of time talking with analysts and investors talking about the company's efforts to use AI. We caught up with Wayfair CFO Kate Gulliver, who said that consumers are still spending money on furniture. We're obviously quite pleased with the third quarter results and the subsequent reaction to them. And I do think it shows, you know, all the work that we've been building to over the last few years and the enduring strength in the model. And so you saw that top line come in pretty nicely at 8%, 9 % adjusted for the German business. And that really is compounding share gains there on the top line.

36:15Carol Massar:And that, of course, flowed through quite nicely to adjusted EBITDA gains. How would you describe the consumer? Yeah, you know, it still remains for us that the consumer is quite focused on promotional events. And so she, you know, our consumer is typically a woman, you know, mass market. and she needs those promotional events to really come in off the sidelines and get excited to shop. We've talked in the past about how the promotional events really work as a marketing banner to get someone interested in the category and to then bring them into the site. And that is still the case. Those promotional events are pretty necessary to get the consumer engaged and excited.

36:54Carol Massar:We do see relatively more strength in that higher-end consumer. For us, that's consumers that are transacting on our Paragold site, which is our luxury brand, or specialty retail brands. We've said that those are actually growing at a faster rate than the core Wayfair.com business, and you are seeing more strength in that consumer segment. Talk about promotions. You mentioned them. You have to get consumers excited. Do you have to get them more excited now than you did in any other part of this year? We're really trying to understand the economic environment out there. You know, what's interesting is this category in particular has been down for so long.

37:31Carol Massar:So the category, you know, obviously boomed during COVID and then had a pretty significant pullback 22, 23, 24. So throughout, you know, 24 and 25 for this category, promotions have been critical. You know, I would say what we have seen, you know, really throughout 25 is there's also been some mixed shift dynamics in addition to sort of higher end consumer and mass market consumer, you do see consumers that are shopping are shopping for, you know, things like decorative accents, decor, you know, maybe things with a lower ticket than, you know, buying a new couch or a new chair. And I think that's the idea.

38:10Carol Massar:Someone wants to refresh and is excited about that, but they want to be mindful of how much they're spending. And so they're looking for the smaller piece as maybe opposed to the big piece? Well, you know, to that point, you know, Kate, I think about the pandemic, we realized that's the anomaly. I mean, I'm looking at your stock is up 142 % this year, which is quite a run, but it's still down about 69 % from 2021. We know everyone was at home spending on their home. That's why people were working at at home, spending on their pets. There was a lot of stuff going on. So I am curious about when you look at the third quarter growth, How much came from intrinsic share capture versus category stabilization?

38:49Carol Massar:Because it does sound like we're seeing a lot of stabilization here. It's a great question. We think the category itself is roughly flat to slightly down. So I do think the category has stabilized. And we see that we look at a variety of different data sources. And, you know, they're all slightly different, but they coalesce around a flattish category. This is in contrast to last year where the category was down maybe, you know, mid single digits to high single digits. So that's certainly an improvement, but we don't yet see the category as having returned to growth. So when we look at sort of 8 percent growth, right, that's definitely us gaining share on a category that is, say, flattish.

39:27When consumers are buying from Wayfair, are they buying to replace stuff or is this trade up activity? What is what is the data telling us or telling you?

39:37Carol Massar:Yeah, that's a that's a great question. We're certainly starting to hear that a bit from folks. You know, have we hit replacement cycles? and really to the conversation we were having around the pandemic, it speaks to so much of the pull forward in demand that happened during that pandemic period. You know, I think we see a few things that drive, you know, purchase events. One is moving. And obviously that part of the category has still been, you know, quite suppressed. One would be life cycle changes. So, you know, your kid, you had a baby and now they're moving into a toddler bed or the kid's leaving the home and you're turning their bedroom into an office.

40:12Carol Massar:So sort of as your life cycle evolves, regardless of if you're moving. And then a third would be, you know, replacement categories or sort of, you know, zhuzhing up your room. In replacement cycles, I think a lot of folks are eager to see if, you know, what was bought in 2020 and 2021 needs to be replaced at this time. And I think what's helpful to understand there is it's just very category by category specific. So if you bought, you know, opening price point outdoor furniture and you live in the northeast, maybe five years is, you know, an appropriate time frame. But if you bought a, you know, nice couch, you know, you're certainly not hitting the replacement cycle on that yet.

40:50Carol Massar:I got to say, I love judging. I love buying pillows. But I'm afraid if I bring any more pillows home, my husband's going to divorce me because he's like, I can't even find that. I can't find the bed anymore. Hey, listen, you talk, Kate, about the higher end brands like Paragold. You're seeing some strength, certainly in that area. I am curious, too, about your retail expansion, the physical store retail expansion or your loyalty program. If that's adding incremental customers versus shifting existing digital ones, what are you seeing on that front? Yeah, great question. So on the physical retail side, we are adding incremental customers.

41:24Carol Massar:We're actually seeing in our first large format Wayfair store that's been open for a little over a year now, more than 50 % of the folks who are transacting in that store are actually new to the customer file. We have a hundred million customer file, right? So to be getting new customers at this stage is pretty exciting. So it's definitely acting as a way into the brand. Paragold, we actually just opened two stores for Paragold. So we opened one in Houston in the spring or sort of early summer. And then we just opened in West Palm Beach in Florida a week ago. So it's very early days on those stores, but we do think that they should work as a nice customer acquisition channel.

42:00Carol Massar:The loyalty program, which is about a year old, I would say that's acting more for existing customers to get them to be increasingly sticky with us. So what we're seeing from loyalty customers is nice incrementality, meaning if they were going to purchase six or eight times a year and maybe they're buying one to two from us, hopefully we're getting that next purchase, that second or third purchase as well now. Kate, on the layoffs that we've heard from other companies just in recent days, Amazon planning to eliminate roughly 14 ,000 corporate jobs. This is Andy Jassy warned that AI will shrink the company's workforce.

42:35You have a 2 ,500 person tech team. How are you thinking about headcount? Are you reallocating headcount toward AI applications or are productivity gains allowing you to do more with a similar cost base? What are the numbers there?

42:47Carol Massar:Yeah, it's a great question. Actually, our CTO, Fiona Tan, was on our earnings call this morning speaking to some of what we're seeing from AI, both on the top line perspective and where we're going with personalization, but also on efficiency. Every employee in the company, not just in tech, is actually enabled with AI tools and AI resources. And right now, what we're seeing is really nice efficiency and enhancements to individual employee work. And then in different pockets throughout the company, including within tech, You know, as we use more specialized AI tools, you see, you know, uptick in efficiency there.

43:21Carol Massar:I frequently actually talk about our legal team. So not a tech team, but a team that, you know, has been able to adopt AI quite rapidly for document review. And the ability for them to sort of manage, for example, increased lease load as we've been expanding the physical retail network without having to add incremental folks has been pretty impressive. And so we certainly are seeing gains, you know, from that efficiency internally. Hey, do you feel like, though, in this environment that you want to be lean and mean? I mean, I guess I feel like all companies want to be lean and mean, Kate. But I do wonder if you're seeing, you know, as you look down the road, we are in this funny environment, funny, not funny, haha, but funny, difficult in that with the government shut down, we're not getting data.

44:00Carol Massar:So we're trying to figure out by talking to folks like you where we are in our economy. So do you feel like there's pressure to be leaner and meaner than maybe, I don't know, a month ago or so, or you feel more confident about what's kind of coming down the road here? You know, I think you framed it well, Carol, when you said you should always feel, you know, the importance of being lean. I mean, we're a mass market retailer, right? We operate on basis points of margin. So we absolutely need to be maniacally focused on cost at all times, regardless of the macro that we're operating in. And over the last several years, you saw us go through a number of restructurings, frankly, to bring down that overhead cost pretty significantly.

44:40Carol Massar:Our most recent restructuring was actually March of this year. We're to the conversation on tech employees. We did lay off some of our tech team as we completed our replatforming exercise. And we're able to actually increase some efficiency on that team, pointed more of those resources, you know, towards AI, et cetera, as they have stayed. So, you know, we continue to be quite focused on efficiency and efficiency gains. We feel good about, you know, where the team is right now and the efficiency that we're seeing from that operating team. But that comes on the heels of, you know, several rounds of restructuring over the last 24 months.

45:11Well, on AI, on the consumer side, when it comes to AI, I'm wondering about the traction from Muse and Decorify, the decorating platform, the new pilot. How has that been with shoppers so far? Is it driving broader consumer adoption of AI led design?

45:26Carol Massar:Yeah, so we've tested out a number of AI tooling as it relates to how the consumer can experience our website. We offer millions of different SKUs across thousands of suppliers across a wide range of styles. So the holy grail is really personalization. And how do you know, all three of us may be searching for, you know, those throw pillows for the bed that Carol was talking about. And we all may have a different aesthetic. So how do we land on the site and get to our aesthetic as fast as possible? Decorify. And, you know, now we have a tab on the app called Discover. these are ways for individuals to sort of browse and engage in a way that should be more personalized for them.

46:06Carol Massar:And we do see great engagement there. But even on, you know, the main part of the app, so not using one of these specialized tools or the main part of the website, we are using generative AI to make that experience better. We spoke on the call this morning about combining generative AI from a merchandising perspective with actually human designers. And for folks that landed on those SKUs that were the combo of the both, we saw a third, you know, uplift and sort of engagement with that SKU. That's really exciting because that means that SKU is probably far more relevant to you than where you were going to land before.

46:39That was Wayfair CFO Kate Gulliver joining us from Boston. After earnings, many financial firms raised their price targets on the stock, including Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan, Stiefel, Citi, Needham and more.

46:50Carol Massar:And that wraps up our first hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Ahead in our next 60 minutes, Jimmy Wales, the founder of Wikipedia, on building trust in today's very skeptical world. Plus, where's the beef? Nicely done, yeah. We catch up with the founder and CEO of the jerky company, Archer. And the New York City Marathon, yep, it is running this weekend. An inside view from One Runner and the individual behind the event. By the way, he's already working on next year's. This is Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Carol Masser. And I'm Tim Stenevec. Stay with us.

47:24More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this.

47:52we can help companies get smarter by putting AI where it actually pays off, deep in the work that moves the business. Let's create smarter business, IBM. Support for the show comes from public.com. If you're actively involved in your portfolio, you probably catch yourself repeating the same actions, buying the dip, manually sweeping idle cash, putting on a hedge. On public, you can now create AI agents that handle all these tasks on your behalf. Just describe what you want to do in plain English, like if the VIX hits 25, buy a put option on the S &P 500. Or if my cash balance goes above$20 ,000, move the excess into my direct index.

48:30You approve the workflow and your agent handles the rest. Monitoring the market, watching for your conditions, and executing your strategies exactly as defined. An investing platform driven by your intent, not just your clicks. You can also get full read and write access to your account via the public API. Go to public.com slash market and fund your account in five minutes or less. That's public.com slash market. Paid for by Public Investing. Brokered services by Open to the Public Investing, Inc., Member FINRA, and SIPC. Advisory services by Public Advisors, LLC, SEC Registered Advisor. Complete disclosures available at public.com slash disclosures.

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50:16Carol Massar:Make every journey more rewarding with a$300 annual travel credit and access to a network of airport lounges, whether you're looking for pre-flight productivity or time to rest and recharge. Chase Sapphire Reserve for Business. It's the card that gives back all you put in. Learn more at chase.com forward slash reserve business. Chase for Business. Make more of what's yours. Accounts subject to credit approval. Restrictions and limitations apply. Cards are issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank N.A., member FDIC. This is Bloomberg Business Week Daily, reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead.

50:53With insight on the people, companies, and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus, global business, finance, and tech news as it happens. Bloomberg Business Week Daily, with Carol Masser and Tim Stenevek, on Bloomberg Radio.

51:09Carol Massar:Plenty ahead in our second hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week, including protein is the new nutrition fad. We talk with the founder of a grass-fed beef and all-natural turkey beef stick company. Say that five times fast. I was going to, and then I decided not to. It's a tough one. Plus, it's one of the world's biggest races. The CEO of New York Roadrunners talks about putting on the New York City Marathon, and it is happening this weekend. It is indeed. First up this hour, Wikipedia has a unique place in online culture. Before AI, before ChatGPT, if you needed a quick place to get an overview on almost any topic, you'd go to Google and then you'd click on Wikipedia.

51:50Carol Massar:It's almost too good to be true in today's world. It is built on trust and community all online. We talk about it a lot in media, in business, with friends and family, and most definitely in politics. Jimmy Wales, founder of Wikipedia, knows a thing or two about trust. He's got a new book out. It's called The Seven Rules of Trust, a blueprint for building things that last. We sat down with him this week in the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Studio, and we wanted to know why Wikipedia works in a world where so many people don't trust one another and they don't trust what they see. That issue of trust is something he's been thinking about.

52:25It was a couple of years ago. So I had had some ideas around this and, yeah, just started. And it's obviously turned out to be quite timely as we have a lot of issues around trust in society. And, you know, I want to encourage people to let's get back to a society of trust. You know, it's funny. Carol and I spent a lot of time talking about this ahead of the interview because Wikipedia sort of seems, and look, it's had its challenges. Of course. It's had its controversies. But for things that are online, it's kind of this weird utopia in the sense that it's kind of remarkable. It's really remarkable.

53:03I mean, we know anonymous people online oftentimes are full of vitriol and hate. We can see that even when people use their names on social media platforms. We lock our doors when we leave the house. Why does trust work on Wikipedia but kind of seems like nowhere else right now? Yeah, I mean, I think for me, you know, one of the seven rules of trust that is most meaningful in that regard is purpose. Like Wikipedia has a very simple purpose, which is to build an encyclopedia. And we make all our decisions around that and the rules about participation and so forth. And that's very different from social media where there isn't a clear purpose other than free speech and openness.

53:45and therefore that toxicity really creeps in quite a lot in social media. People say outrageous things because they get rewarded for it. They get more followers. They get more engagement and the algorithms love that.

53:59Carol Massar:We talk about clickbait all the time. Clickbait all the time. And that's very different from the world of Wikipedia where, I mean, thank goodness our headlines are so boring. There's no clickbait. It's like the article on Thomas Jefferson is called Thomas Jefferson. You know, but it's it does what it says on the 10. You know, that's a boy. That's a very British expression, I'm afraid. But but yeah, I mean, I do think that that having a simple purpose is a part of what keeps us focused and keeps our community focused. How do you describe facts or what? How do you determine facts? And I am amazed in I don't I mean, I've been doing this a few years and I felt like when I started, it was very clear fact versus fiction in terms of reporting and doing stories.

54:41Carol Massar:and I feel like there's a lot of gray area and I just feel like a fact is a fact. So how do you guys determine what's a fact in an entry? Yeah, I mean, we're really old-fashioned. Like what we look for are reliable sources. So we want, you know, sort of academic research or quality newspapers, quality magazines, quality books. Really old-fashioned. And, you know, the idea that we should treat, you know, know the new england journal of medicine as the same as uh social media influence online is obviously just wrong like you you really want facts and that's what people want from wikipedia they don't want um sources matter sources really matter like having a good quality source is what it's all about but why don't sources matter to everybody and other people will say okay i believe this source is reliable so like you know what i mean like we're living in like different worlds.

55:39I think, I think, and I think that's a huge problem. I mean, I do think, you know, it's really important. I mean, one of the problems that we've seen is that a lot of the media in response to the changing and very difficult financial model for journalism, they've chased after really partisan audiences. And so, you know, sometimes you read something and you're like, yeah, that was, that was interesting. That was good. But I'm not sure I got both sides of the story there. I live in the UK and we have a, just an example, two quality newspapers, the Guardian and the Telegraph, left-leaning, right-leaning.

56:13They're both great newspapers, but I often read one and I'm like, oh, but, and then I go read the other and I'm like, yeah, you probably should have been somewhere in the middle, both of you. And it would have been, I think, a better story had you said, ah, well, you know, we got one side of the story, but we actually had to go out and find somebody to tell us a little bit of the other side. You You know, you can't be too like the moon is made of rocks or is it cheese? Who knows? I don't mean that. But seriously, hopefully cheese. But but, you know, like seriously thinking about like, who are we talking to and are we are we getting to the bottom of this?

56:46With with media, with trust in media here in the United States declining and having declined over the last few years. In your view, is there something that we can do better, that the media can do better, that it can borrow from what has worked at Wikipedia, what has worked with the methods of trust that you've studied, that can make us build trust again with our audiences? Yeah, I mean, well, the good news is that the financial press, like Bloomberg, is still among the most trusted. And I think that's because by the mandate of what you're trying to do, informing business people and investors, you kind of have to be like ruthlessly objective.

57:19You're not chasing after partisan audiences and things like that. But I do think that's a big thing. Big data. Data is important. Transparency. I think, you know, realistically, you know, one of the things that Wikipedia does that's kind of odd is we'll have a, you know, at the top of a page, the neutrality of this article has been disputed. And we've all seen it. Yeah, we've all seen it. And I always say, you know, I kind of wish sometimes The New York Times would put a banner up just saying, you know, we had a big fight in the newsroom. We weren't quite sure. So like we decided to roll this.

57:49But yeah, yeah. But here's a little bit of their inside thinking. Like we did want to report this. We're not sure we've got the full story yet. Because that pretending to be perfection all the time, people see through that. And they know, of course. And I think they're willing to say, yeah, like, actually, journalism is quite hard, you know. So a little more transparency is always good.

58:07Carol Massar:Do you get pressure a lot from companies, politicians, individuals to, like, change an entry? No, not really. I mean, people, you know, I meet a lot of people. And people often are like, well, you know, my Wikipedia entry, what about this? What about that? And I'm just like, yeah, send us an email. Like, you know, we'll have somebody look at that. That's all fine. In general, no. And actually, we're very. But you really just say, just send him an email and I'm not going to do anything about it. Kind of. Yeah. Okay. But no, sometimes people have a legitimate point. They're like, oh, well, I, you know, I did this thing and it was in the press and, you know, it's like, oh, okay, well, maybe we just overlooked it.

58:38And that's, that's great. But, you know, at a deeper level, one of the things that's really important is, you know, we aren't funded by governments. We aren't funded by sort of major donors. We're funded by people giving their$20. And that makes a big difference for our intellectual independence. We're not worried that, oh, if we've got something negative about whatever, then we might lose our donation. How is the fundraising going? Because I feel like I've gotten a lot of messages from you throughout the years. Throughout the years. Please, from Jimmy Wills on Wikipedia. We've all seen it. Yeah, we've all seen it.

59:11Is it going okay? Is funding going okay? It's okay, yeah. We've been, you know, we're stable. We're very cautious with money. So we always try to build our reserves and so on. And then, you know, recently, I don't know, Elon tweeted defund Wikipedia. I think we made about$5 million that day. So you can text Elon. I know you guys have been in touch. You can text him and say tweet about us again when it gets to the end of the year. Have a while.

59:34Carol Massar:Well, you have had some conversations with Elon over the years. All right, we're continuing with Jimmy Wales, founder of Wikipedia. He's got a new book out. It's out tomorrow. The Seven Rules of Trust, A Blueprint for Building Things That Last. So... And Elon Musk, you've had an ongoing relationship or text relationship with him. I've known him for years, actually, now. I'm getting old. Aren't we all? I like to think like a fine wine, just getting better. But he has talked about defunding Wikipedia. And you said, you know, that has brought in a lot of money. So thank you, Elon. What are the conversations that you've had with him back and forth?

1:00:11I mean, you know, he believes Wikipedia has become Wokipedia, which is not true. and you know I encourage him to sort of I better messages to say if you feel like Wikipedia has got some bias encourage people to come and participate people who agree with you don't paint us as like oh they've gone they're crazy left-wing activists or something we aren't and by the way he's also encouraging crazy left-wing activists to come and bother us and that's not good either so you know realistically I can't predict what Elon's gonna say or do he's

1:00:42Carol Massar:elon you know he does what he likes but what's he like one-on-one you were and we're to be fully transparent we listen to a podcast and i think you brought up something about like elon one-on-one versus yeah he's always been performer yeah he's always been very nice to me in private and you know civil and and so forth and i've met him in person a few times and yeah and then he's a huge public persona and a huge public character and sometimes i just i slightly ignore that because i'm like oh he's just being elon in public if i ran into him i think we would have a very friendly chat. You know, over the last 20 plus years, Wikipedia has had, has kind of lived on despite massive changes with technology.

1:01:22We're undergoing one right now with AI and the way that people are using LLMs. You have said that you are building Wikipedia to last a hundred more years. How do you ensure that you do that when you don't even know what technology will be around? Well, it's true. We have no idea. So I think all we can do is preserve our intellectual independence, keep an eye on the finances to make sure we're not vulnerable, you know, be open and keep our community's mind open and active to say, oh, how do we adapt to new technology? Is there things here we could use? What can we do to preserve our mission, which is free knowledge for everyone?

1:01:56That was Jimmy Wales, the founder of Wikipedia, on his new book, The Seven Rules of Trust, a blueprint for building things that last.

1:02:03Carol Massar:You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week Coming up, got to get the protein in as many ways as possible. Everybody's talking about protein. I don't know. I grew up with my family. Like, you always had protein. Like, you knew that that was part of a healthy diet. But anyway. Did you see we got... What? Protein and Pop-Tarts? Yeah, well... I don't even get that. Okay, we did. Sorry, Pop-Tarts. Love you. But there's also, like, even the nice, like, organic, quote-unquote organic fig bars. Have protein? They have a new version out with extra protein. It's all about the GLP-1s. What is it? I know exactly.

1:02:32People want their protein.

1:02:33Carol Massar:Anyway, on this, we had a great conversation. We caught up with Eugene Kang. He is founder and CEO of the meat stick company, Archer. Meat. I ate actually a meat stick after this interview. You did. After the conversation, I went upstairs. I got meat sticks for everybody. You did. This is Bloomberg.

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1:06:02Carol Massar:Cards are issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank N.A., member FDIC. This is Bloomberg Business Week Daily with Carol Nasser and Tim Stenevek on Bloomberg Radio. Protein. In the words of Derek Zoolander, so hot right now. Or Paris Hilton. That's hot. We don't know if you saw this last week, Carol, but I know you did actually. I know you saw this because you mentioned it earlier. I did. The protein in the Pop-Tarts? Yeah, yeah. That's bizarre. Listen, protein Pop-Tarts. But I do feel like we're turning around products and we're looking for some key things like fiber or protein or, you know what I'm saying?

1:06:41Carol Massar:Yeah. Or some vitamins or something. We are doing that, but protein in everything. What PepsiCo said? They have plans for a higher protein version of Doritos? I mean, come on. Come on. Okay, elsewhere, protein is being added to popcorn, pasta, bread, cookie dough, ice cream, and macaroni and cheese. I kind of want to go old school, though. Go to the original source of protein. We talked about this a lot in the newsroom today. Eugene Gang knows all about this. He's founder and CEO of Archer. It makes meat sticks from grass-fed beef and all-natural turkey. He joins us from L.A. Talk about timing, Eugene.

1:07:13How are you leaning into the protein craze right now? Is this what people want? Yeah, thanks for having me on, Tim and Carol. And yeah, absolutely. Protein. Look, it's been around for a while and particularly meat snacks and protein is the hottest sort of trend right now. And we're really, really proud of the fact that, you know, meat snacks is kind of a original kind of source, right, of protein. And you don't have to add necessarily protein to it like some of the innovations that you guys got to noted earlier. So we know you are the official meat snack partner of the LA Dodgers. You're a Dodgers fan.

1:07:49Dodgers are playing tonight. Game one of the World Series, LA Dodgers at Toronto Blue Jays. You're a startup, though. How did the partnership come together like this? Yeah. There was a couple of other consumer brands that were partnered with the Dodgers last year, most notably HealthAid Kombucha, which is one of the largest kombucha brands in the country. So we had kind of reached out to the Dodgers saying, hey, look, we're looking to build potentially a bigger production facility in L.A. We're growing our business pretty rapidly. It doesn't make sense to kind of partner up. and they absolutely loved it, thought it was a great idea.

1:08:25So I got to work quickly on a partnership framework earlier in the year around spring training and kind of cemented it right before the season started. Do you guys pay for that or do you offer a deal? I've always wondered how the finances of this stuff works. Take us into the numbers. Yeah, I know we do pay for it, but in return we obviously get advertisement throughout the stadium, products sold in the concession stands, available in the clubhouse. So I think there's a few notable Dodgers that are probably eating our protein snacks as well. And we also get to use sort of their collateral or their assets on a lot of our collateral for the broader Southern California market, whether it's displays or any kind of retail programming.

1:09:06Carol Massar:Hey, talk to us more broadly because you guys are in Costco, Whole Foods, Walmart, Starbucks, Target, 7-Eleven. I mean, if we're on a road trip, I mean, that is certainly one of the snacks people pick up. Talk to us about the growth that you are seeing in the marketplace? Yeah, the growth has been incredible. What's incredible? We love numbers here. We're growing 100 % year over year. You know, we're approaching close to over 500 million in revenue in the next 12 months. You know, we were a little over 100 million two years ago. So growth has been absolutely incredible for us. You know, the category obviously, because of us is doing incredibly well.

1:09:47Premium, sort of better for you brands have really just taken over sort of the zeitgeist of consumers. And we benefit not only from the premium, better for you side of it, but also the fact that we're a portable, dense, protein packed snack. You know, how do you do this? I'm wondering about funding and bootstrapping versus raising money. The growth, the new facility that you are opening soon in Vernon, California, the one that you just opened earlier this month. Did you take on external funding for this? We took on debt, but we're cash flowing. We're profitable. So for us, we didn't have to necessarily raise equity or anything like that.

1:10:30We do have a private equity growth investor that came in early on in our life stage, but no institutional funding as of late. The private equity investors, so how much do they own? uh they own a minority stake in the business um you know my partner and i still own uh majority stake but they they are they are kind of shoulder to shoulder in terms of like sort of uh ownership

1:10:53Carol Massar:structure i'm curious in a world of glp1 drugs and people you know looking to lose weight they are losing weight um thinking about their diet how is that impacting you if at all and i'm looking at you know you've got a grass-fed beef jerky a classic zero sugar so i'm just curious how you're adapting and just talk to us a little bit about the impact if there is any. Yeah, you know, we haven't seen an impact in a negative way. If anything has been positive, we're not able to quantitatively tie our brand performance to GLP-1, but studies have shown that, you know, folks that are on GLP-1 adopt to meat snacks at a much higher rate because they're just, I think, seeking a bit more protein in general in their diet post-GLP-1.

1:11:37So for us, we feel like it's a major tailwind for our business. Got to talk beef prices. U.S. beef prices have skyrocketed to record levels. It's challenged the president's pledge to make groceries more affordable. Earlier this week, the president attacked U.S. cattle ranchers over their criticism of his plan to slash record beef prices by importing significantly more tariff free meat from Argentina. How much have your prices gone up? Not the prices that you reflect to consumers. I'm talking the prices you pay for the for the product. Yeah, so we kind of knew early on that the beef prices were going to be as high as they were.

1:12:13If you look at, we look at cattle reports a year out. And this time last year, it was clear that the domestic cattle herd is actually kind of thinning out, just given all the record droughts that we've had in the last few years. And so if you think about, you know, cattle herd thinning out, you know, potentially a trade war, it's only going to spell disaster, right? So we were able to hedge our commodities for the full year. So we were somewhat, not going to say completely insulated, but somewhat insulated. And obviously, we did see a spike in pricing for sure on the beef price. But anyone that would tell you that the beef prices from an industry perspective is coming out of the left field, I would be very shocked to find out.

1:12:52I think everyone knew that this day was coming. I don't think the average consumer knew it was coming, but I think most folks that were in the industry about a year ago knew that this was kind of coming down the pipeline. Can you give us an idea of how much your raw costs would have gone up had you not hedged, though? We're talking record prices right now. So what would that have done? It would have been like 40, 50%. Wow. That's pretty amazing. I mean, kudos for hedging. Yeah.

1:13:18Carol Massar:I'm curious about the process. So you're doing this all here in the U.S., correct? All of it. So is it robots? Is there humans involved? Like what's involved in the process? The cows are not robots. No, I know the cows aren't. Not yet. But tell us like what the process is, because I'm just figuring out your cost. Is beef the biggest or give us a little bit of what the business is? Beef for sure is by far the biggest. So we have manufacturing plants that we own and we also have co-manufacturing partners throughout the country as well. I'd say there is labor involved for sure. There is some automation depending on part of the process.

1:13:55So think about we're bringing in raw beef, right? We're not doing any kind of slaughtering or anything like that. It's all just raw beef that comes into our processing plants. Everything is either grinded or cut. It's cooked in a big, big oven that you can imagine. And then from there it's packaged out, whether it's individually wrapped like a beef stick or beef jerky that's in bits and pieces in a sort of resealable pouch. Parts of the packaging, most of the packaging process is automated. I would obviously say that the raw kind of processing handling of the product is still somewhat required labor, but that's also got a lot of efficiencies in machinery there.

1:14:34Carol Massar:Okay. All right. Interesting. You know, as we hear you talking, you talk about your growth rates. I mean, there were, go back a few years, even before GLP-1, that people were trying to cut back on their consumption of beef. And I think, you know, people even say, you know, you shouldn't have it too often. And it feels like people are really into your product. You know, what's changed, do you think? You know, I think, I don't think anything's changed. I think it's accelerated. I think our thesis from the very beginning was, you know, we are sourcing high quality premium beef, right? So it's all 100 % grass fed, pasture raised.

1:15:10And so for us, we had this thesis like, look, if you're going to eat protein and beef, please make sure you're eating the right highest quality of protein. And so I think that trend line has converged where the consumer is today. And I think folks are realizing like, you know, hey, look, there's nothing wrong with eating animal based protein. but if you're going to eat it, make sure you're sourcing the highest quality because we think that's better for you, whether it's antibiotic-free, free-range, grass-fed, etc. We're speaking with Eugene Kang. He's the founder and CEO of Archer, makes meat sticks from grass-fed beef and all-natural turkey, joins us from LA.

1:15:43What's the product pipeline look like beyond turkey, beyond beef? Yeah, look, we launched a really cool bison, pasture-raised bison jerky in Whole Foods and sprouts nationwide. Pot of bison burger.

1:15:57Carol Massar:They're kind of good. Bison's really fun. Not a lot of source for it. So, you know, hard to scale. Look, we're exploring other protein alternatives, right? Other animals in whether it's the stick or meat or beef jerky or jerky format. I'd say for us, given the growth, we actually feel like a lot of our sort of white space is still in distribution. I mean, convenience channel is, you know, roughly 30 to 40 percent of the overall meets that category. And we play in less than one percent of it today. So we think there's big white space there. A lot of, you know, despite all the store counts that we're in today, we actually think there's still plenty of distribution to go get in our current format.

1:16:34And then continue to innovate on the pack format. Right. Like this consumer is completely new to the category, despite it being a category that's been around for 20 years. like our consumers that we brought in through this like premiumization, this better for you positioning is entirely incremental. And so for us, it's like, okay, how do we think about new, unique pack formats to meet the consumer where there are given the usage occasion? And that's kind of our view right now. Just very briefly competition. There's no shortage. You've got chomps, you've got Vermont. That's just a couple country.

1:17:07You've got other ones as well. I mean, those are the two on the tip of my tongue. How do you stand out? Yeah, I mean, we're the fourth largest in the country. You know, we are right behind the big conventional stalwarts like a Jacklynx, like a Slim Jim. Those are more conventionally positioned and they're like legacy brands. Chomps is a phenomenal brand as well. I mean, we are kind of neck and neck in terms of like size and scale and ultimately driving a lot of the growth, frankly, in the category. I would actually argue that if you removed us and Chomps from the ecosystem, the category wouldn't be growing as fast as it would be.

1:17:42So Eugene, really quick, 10 seconds.

1:17:45Carol Massar:You're going to go it alone or are you looking for someone to buy you guys out? Look, the company is built on scalability and sustainability. And for us, you know, we're always open to options, right? That was Eugene Kang, founder and CEO of the meat stick company, Archer. Still ahead on Bloomberg Businessweek, over 55 ,000 runners will be pounding the pavement for the New York City Marathon this weekend. and we talk to the CEO behind it all. This is Bloomberg. The thing about AI for business, it may not automatically fit the way your business works. At IBM, we've seen this firsthand. But by embedding AI across HR, IT, and procurement processes, we've reduced costs by millions, slash repetitive tasks, and freed thousands of hours for strategic work.

1:18:35Now we're helping companies get smarter by putting AI where it actually pays off. deep in the work that moves the business. Let's create smarter business, IBM. Support for the show comes from public.com. If you're actively involved in your portfolio, you probably catch yourself repeating the same actions, buying the dip, manually sweeping idle cash, putting on a hedge. On public, you can now create AI agents that handle all these tasks on your behalf. Just describe what you want to do in plain English. Like if the VIX hits 25, buy a put option on the S &P 500. or if my cash balance goes above$20 ,000, move the excess into my direct index.

1:19:14You approve the workflow and your agent handles the rest. Monitoring the market, watching for your conditions and executing your strategies exactly as defined. An investing platform driven by your intent, not just your clicks. You can also get full read and write access to your account via the public API. Go to public.com slash market and fund your account in five minutes or less. That's public.com slash market. Paid for by Public Investing. Brokered services by Open to the Public Investing, Inc., member FINRA and SIPC. Advisory services by Public Advisors, LLC, SEC Registered Advisor. Complete disclosures available at public.com slash disclosures.

1:19:56Never bet against American grit or American energy. Through innovation, Venture Global is not only building some of the largest energy facilities in the world right here in the United States, but delivering American energy at a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the time. So while others are busy talking, we're busy building. That's Venture Global. That's unstoppable energy.

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1:21:00Carol Massar:Make every journey more rewarding with a$300 annual travel credit and access to a network of airport lounges, whether you're looking for pre-flight productivity or time to rest and recharge. Chase Sapphire Reserve for Business. It's the card that gives back all you put in. Learn more at chase.com forward slash reserve business. Chase for Business. Make more of what's yours. Accounts subject to credit approval. Restrictions and limitations apply. Cards are issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank N.A., member FDIC. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern.

1:21:37Carol Massar:Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Or watch us live on YouTube. This weekend, more than 55 ,000 people from all over the world will take to the streets of New York City to run the more than 26 miles through the five boroughs of the city. You know someone who's going to be running in it. My wife is doing it this year. She's wanted to do it for years. Really? She is, yeah. That's how much. Isn't? Kids got in the way of planning for this over the last few years. That happened. She's finally making it happen. We're excited to cheer for her. And you guys should all cheer for her, too.

1:22:10We will definitely cheer for her. When you see her running. We've got with us Rob Simmelker, CEO of New York Roadrunners. It's the nonprofit that puts on the TCS New York Marathon. He joins us from New York. Rob, good to have you with us. The Roadrunners, you guys do stuff throughout the year. But no question, do you pretty much start planning the marathon the Monday after? the Sunday of the marathon? No, we don't wait that long. We've already been planning the 2026 marathon now for several months. So yeah, we get out more than a year ahead because this is a massive operation, as you can imagine, more than 55 ,000 runners going from Staten Island to Central Park.

1:22:46And we've got hundreds of staff, thousands of volunteers involved in this. So it's really like a military operation and the planning begins more than a year out. It's pretty remarkable for anyone who has not seen it. I think it's actually one of the best days to be in New York City.

1:23:03Carol Massar:It's pretty cool, right? Oh, I mean, I always get goosebumps when I watch because it's like everybody is so happy. Even though some of them look like they're in pain. It's pretty rough. You just never see. It's the way that New Yorkers come together in a way that... I can't believe I'm selling this thing, but I mean, I have a friend who comes in every year. a friend who comes in every year to do it. And he runs marathons all over the world. And he's like, there is nothing like the New York City marathon. Rob, why do you think that is the case? I just think that, you know, he said it in a way, it's a day that New Yorkers come out to cheer for total strangers.

1:23:40You know, you don't see that every day in a city like New York. We're known to be pretty tough. New York can be a tough place to live. And, you know, we're obviously all really tough people in New York City. That's part of what makes us New Yorkers. But it's the day that we come out, we cheer for strangers, whether they're from down the block or across the world, because I think everybody respects what it takes to run 26.2 miles. And everybody wants them to succeed. We're not rooting against anybody. We're rooting for everyone. And we may be out there to see our spouse or our colleague or our friend, but every person who passes, we're rooting for them to succeed in their goal of reaching the finish line.

1:24:18Carol Massar:So 55 ,000 people all over the world, How many people like actually reach out to be a part of this? I'm assuming that there is a number that you guys just don't want to exceed. Yeah, that's right. I mean, this year we had over 200 ,000 applications to our drawing. So that was a big number. We also have a countless number of requests coming in for people to run for charities or other organizations in the marathon. So the interest level, if you add it all up, is probably close to half a million people who would like to run the marathon and reach out to try to do it every year. We obviously want to keep the number to a number that we think is manageable.

1:24:57So this year we're going to be in that 55 ,000 plus range to make sure that everybody has a great day. But we're always looking for ways to get more people into the marathon. And the application window for next year is already open. You can already apply to be a part of our Team for Kids charity team for 2026 on our website, nyrr.org. We also have a sweepstakes going on right now. You can enter to buy a chance to get free entry for you and a friend into the marathon next year. And the proceeds from that go to support our nonprofit mission to get kids and adults running in New York. Yeah, it's really hard to get into, Carol.

1:25:33I mean, my wife did. Because we live in New York, she did the New York Roadrunners 9 plus 1. Is that right, Rob? That's right. Do you still do that? Yeah, we do. Okay, explain how that works for New Yorkers. Yeah, if you're in the New York area and you run nine races in a calendar year, plus volunteer at one of them, you are guaranteed entry into the next year's marathon. So that's one of the most popular ways to get in. It obviously favors New York City area residents. And yeah, we had a lot of people get in that way. Okay, so let's talk economic impact here because I got my buddy coming in who comes in every year.

1:26:05This time he's not coming in solo. He's bringing his two kids. He's bringing his wife. They're staying at a fancy hotel in Midtown. They're going to make a vacation of it. He's going to drop some serious coin to do that. I imagine the New York City Marathon has a huge economic effect on the city. Yes. In fact, we just completed a study about a month ago on the economic impact of the marathon and New York Roadrunners across the board on New York City. And we found that the marathon contributes just about$700 million a year to the economy of New York City. All year, New York Roadrunners, with our other races and events, contributes close to a billion dollars.

1:26:43And so that's actually more economic impact than all of the Mets and Yankees home games combined. And the story of your friends, a big part of the reason why, right? You've got people from all over the world who are coming to New York. They're bringing their friends. They're bringing their family. A lot of them are staying in hotels multiple nights. About 40 % of our field this year will be international. So those folks are coming in for a sustained period of time. They're staying in hotels. They're eating at restaurants. They're going to Broadway shows. They're doing all the things you do when you visit New York.

1:27:14And so running the marathon is just kind of the centerpiece of a big trip to New York City. And let's face it, November is not peak tourist season, right? So we're bringing in a huge number of visitors to the city at a time that otherwise would be pretty quiet.

1:27:27Carol Massar:Wait, Rob, how much of that spending is the carb load before the marathon, right? Like all those restaurants offering up pasta? I mean, there's a lot of that going on too, right? Oh, yeah. This is a good week to own an Italian restaurant in New York City. and we know that they are all dialed up their pasta menus, their prefix menus. So absolutely, it's a very good week for the pasta and rice too. Rice is also good carbs. You know, Carol and I travel the weekend, the two days after the marathon every year. And one cool thing about New York is you see everybody who completed the marathon on the subway, on the way home.

1:27:59Do they wear it? They're wearing the medals. Then throughout the week, and I just remember the last few years, because we're going to Schwab Impact next week, Carol. Right. It's always around this time of year. I we fly on the plane there's always people wearing their medals at the airport on the plane with us and you know there's this cool like moment that you have with these people we're like congratulations that was a lot of work you did it it's like such a community feel it is pretty amazing right it's so not New York the New York that Rob was describing right like the sharp elbows like give me some room on the subway here it's really really sweet like in a world where

1:28:31Carol Massar:it feels like there's a lot coming at people um I don't know how what year are you guys in doing this? Next year will be the 50th anniversary of the five borough New York City Marathon that started and starts in Staten Island and ends in New York City. So the original race was just lapsed in Central Park in the early 70s. But next year will be really a big, big anniversary because that's what people think of when they think of the marathon is crossing the Verrazano Bridge, running through all five boroughs. So next year will be a big year with that 50th anniversary. I just love it. How much has the race, I mean, you said how it started, you know, laps around Central Park.

1:29:06Carol Massar:How much has the route changed over the years? It hasn't changed very much since they started that race covering five boroughs. Minor changes here and there, but it really has not changed very much. That start line on the Staten Island side of the Verrazano and Auer's Bridge and that finish line right at Tavern on the Green. So you're running the same course that people have been running for decades and decades. And I think that's one of the things that makes it special because you can compare your times to the times of your friends years ago, the times of yourself if you've run it a lot of years.

1:29:37So that's one of the things that runners love to do is compare times and it's, you know, it's stayed pretty constant. So those comparisons hold true. Yeah. I'm wondering how much the athletes with disabilities program has changed in over the years, because that to me is one of the most special parts of the marathon. And I know that there are different physical impairments that make athletes with disabilities eligible to run in the New York City Marathon, but seeing those folks, whether they're visually impaired and they're guided by another runner or they're using hand cycles because they've lost the use of their legs.

1:30:10Well, that's actually a separate race, we should note. But it's pretty remarkable to see, Rob. Yeah, thank you for bringing that up. I mean, we do have a significant number of athletes with disabilities who enter our race. There are a number of ways for them to do that. They can enter directly with us. We have our own AWD, as we call it, program. We have a great partnership with Achilles International. I think if you've run our races or stood on the sidelines for a lot of our races, you'll see the Achilles athletes going by. They always wear this highlighter yellow shirt. And they always are, I think, some of the stars of the marathon.

1:30:45People will yell out, go Achilles, when they see these athletes go by. You'll see them with, you know, one or sometimes two guides on either side of them just to make sure they stay safe. And I think that's what the marathon is all about. It's what inspires people is folks overcoming these incredible odds. You know, we just released a film that's on YouTube actually out today called 26.2. I recommend everybody check it out. It's a short film, about 30 minutes long. And it tells the story of four runners who ran the marathon last year. And they each had significant challenges. One was overcoming cancer.

1:31:19One had had a stroke. One was, you know, basically having to walk the marathon, you know, and they're incredible stories. And I think that's the thing that makes the marathon special. Yes, we love the fast runners. We love the ones who win and who run in under three or even two and a half hours. But it's those stories of overcoming struggle and challenges that I think make it really special.

1:31:39Carol Massar:That's pretty cool. Yeah. A documentary, right? And just to kind of show, you're right, it's the people, right? And some of them who are struggling physically and maybe even emotionally, right? But they all come together. And with this common goal, it's a pretty cool thing. Rob, thank you so much. Good luck. Fingers crossed, really good weather. We've had some good weekend weather. So let's hope it continues this weekend. And good luck to your wife. Yeah, she's been training. She's excited. She's wanted to do this for years. I mean, we've lived in New York for like, gosh, close to 20 years at this point.

1:32:13And this is finally the year she's making it happen. So really cool. Rob Simmelcare, CEO of New York Roadrunners. He's also a two-time New York marathon finisher as well. See the medals there behind him. The New York Roadrunners is the nonprofit that puts on the TCS New York Marathon. Rob joining us from New York. I do seriously want to encourage anybody who has never seen the marathon. It is one of the most special days here in New York City. Go check it out. We have friends coming in from Westchester County. We have friends coming in from New Jersey. Everybody makes a day of it. They're not just coming to watch my wife.

1:32:47They're just coming to watch her race. Yeah. I mean, it is a great thing. And a little secret. What? Bring the kids bikes. As the last runners go through, sneak onto those closed roads and bike through. Rob, I probably shouldn't say, I see Rob, he's probably like, don't say this. Just stay away from the New York City sanitation trucks that are coming through to clean up everything.

1:33:09Carol Massar:But the kids can just ride the roads, right? Yeah, the kids can just ride the roads. It's a special day in New York. This is the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast. Available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 p.m. Eastern on Bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, TuneIn, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.

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