Fed Raises Rates as Warsh Bucks Trump to Contain Inflation, Future Proof Day Two

20:48Carol Massar:Is it, though, a risk? Because China is certainly really putting a lot of pressure, the government, behind their AI models and moving forward. Is there a risk of the U.S. falling behind in terms of this technology? I think it is an overstated risk, at least in the near term. You know, I think there is a lot going for U.S. model labs in how successful they've been in pushing the frontier when it comes to their ability to access next generation chips. also the slate of just like human capital that we have here and liquid capital markets. Over the long term, yeah. But I think there is a lot that is going to be said and done geopolitically around AI standards and rulemaking that we've really yet to see.

21:30With this administration? I think regardless of who. The reality is this needs to happen.

21:39Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this.

21:48Carol Massar:This is the Bloomberg Tech Minute brought to you by ChatGPT. Now with ChatGPT Work, I'm Carol Masser. AI is creating a new path for musical stardom. As Bloomberg's Lucas Shaw and Ashley Carman report, Suno, an AI-generated music company, lets users generate a song in any style based on a text prompt. People can upload their own lyrics or start from scratch, record their own voices, or rely on ones provided by Suno. While most of the songs generated on the service go unheard of by the masses, a few have taken off, including a recent TikTok trend that involves users uploading text messages to Suno and turning them into musical performances, like taking the text from a crazy night out and making it a gospel song.

22:32Carol Massar:Suno's pitch to investors is that it'll democratize music creation, leading to a more than$5 billion valuation for the company. The music industry, it's watching, as its biggest concern about AI is whether record labels, rights holders, and artists will be compensated for the work they claim built the training models for companies like Suno. Another question? Will these AI bangers have any staying power or just be one-hit wonders? That's the Bloomberg Tech Minute brought to you by ChatGPT. Put ChatGPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. Get started at ChachiPT.com today by selecting Work Mode, available on Plus and Pro plans.

23:12Carol Massar:Let's talk about healthcare for a second. It doesn't always work the way people expect it to. If you've ever waited on a prescription refill or had a hard time getting the care you needed, you know the feeling. The system should just work better for everyone. That's exactly what the people at Optum are trying to do every day. They're a healthcare company linking patient care and pharmacy services and using data and technology to drive the whole system so care is connected, not complicated, for patients and providers. Things like making it easier to get care that looks at the whole person, from primary care doctors to mental health support and even in-home care, and then using technology to make sure they all work together.

23:51Carol Massar:Technology designed to help doctors spend less time on busy work and more time with their patients. And those prescriptions? Optum is working to bring costs down, save patients money, and make it easier to get refills. Little by little, Optum is helping make healthcare work as one for everyone. Head to business.optum.com to see how. It's time to plan ahead and make sure your brand is showing up in ways that can have an impact. That's where 4imprint comes in. 4imprint have promotional products that work as hard as you do. Durable, useful, and designed to make a lasting impression. Think quality apparel your team will wear again and again, including popular and exclusive brands.

24:31Drinkware that's enjoyed again and again. Bags, notebooks, tools, and tech items that don't just look good, but actually get used. With thousands of customizable options, 4imprint makes it easy to find what fits your brand and your budget. You'll get expert help, free samples, and their 360-degree guarantee means you can be 4imprint certain your order shows up just right, right on time. Whether you're gearing up for fall events or simply planning ahead for the season, 4imprint can help your brand show up, stay useful, and make connections that last. Explore the possibilities at 4imprint.com. 4imprint.

25:05For certain.

25:09We are live at Future Proof in Huntington Beach, a special edition of Bloomberg Business Week Daily brought to you by Franklin Templeton, your trusted partner for what's ahead.

25:18Carol Massar:All right. So we may be on the beach in Orange County, but we're totally focused on today's Fed decision. And you know that. We've been covering it, analysis, watching the market reaction. In case you missed it, just to remind you, Charlie also covering this. Fed raising interest rates by a quarter percentage point, penciling in an additional hike later on this year. Steps aimed at containing inflation that will test chair Kevin Walsh's relationship with President Trump, who's already weighed in. And Mr. Trump thinks rates should be a little bit lower, right, Tim? Yeah, he did. One percent? Zero?

25:48He said the rate should be one percent.

25:51Carol Massar:One percent. Yeah. But you know what? We expected to hear from the president on this. Totally, totally. Tonight, so we'll hear if he says anything else. I wonder if Mr. Warsh gets a phone call. Hey, all right. We could spend a whole hour talking about that. For more, we are joined here at Future Proof by Manju Bore, a senior product manager and head of systematic fixed income, head of custom SMA portfolio management at Allspring Global Investments. He's got a big title. I do have a good title. It keeps getting bigger every year. No pressure, no pressure. You're a fixed income guy. Give us your reaction on what we heard from the Fed chair today.

26:25Yeah, I think it was the right addition, in my view. Let's start there. I think we needed the hike to be on pace with the market expectations.

26:34Carol Massar:Is it just because the market expected it, or fundamentally we need to raise rates? Fundamentally we needed it. And it was also needed for making sure that the markets actually think that the Fed is doing what they're supposed to do. So I think it's on par with where the inflation is and where we need to go. you see that the curve has already flattened. The 530s has flattened. Actually, what's been concerning, as you know, the term premium of the tail end, the 10-years to 30-year term premium has been widening. And I think to kind of calm down the markets, this was the right move. Yeah, but at the same time, when he gave out his projections for core PCE, pushed out that projection, was it to 2030, in terms of pressure?

27:14Carol Massar:So I think all of us are trying to get our heads around it about, okay, inflation is higher for longer still. It is going to be higher for longer. I mean, if you look at the core inflation, where the target is for the Fed, we are way north of that, right? So we need to definitely tamper down the expectations. And also really manage the curve on the front end because managing the curve at the tail end, that's a lose-lose proposition in my view. I want to talk a little bit about where there are alternatives now. I got this really interesting email, probably the first one I've gotten in years, from the...

27:52Let's just say it's a publicly traded company that offers a high-yield savings account. And typically, for the last years, I've been getting emails from them that's saying, your rate's going down, your rate's going down. But I just got one that said, your rate's going up. Yeah. So now, we're actually seeing a little bit of an opportunity, maybe, for cash? I don't know. Are we? I think it's a great opportunity for cash, for fixed income in general. The threshold rate, just given the macroeconomic dynamic, will be higher. I think that, to me, it's given. The question is, how do you find the right place on the curve to position yourself?

28:32So the intermediate part of the curve is really where I think there's a good mix of duration risk and income profile.

28:38Carol Massar:So 5, 3, 5? 5 to 15. Oh, 5 to 15. Okay. Yeah. So I think really kind of positioning there to make sure that you're well positioned, you're kind of far away from the inflation dynamics. You can actually capture income expectations in the right way. I do wonder how much, as we've seen rates head higher and again, that 10 % hitting, I mean, that 10 hitting 5 % again, it becomes more competitive potentially with the equity universe. And are we getting to a point where investors are like, you know what, we've had some nice gains in equities. We're a little worried about the AI trade. Fixed income, it's kind of a sure thing.

29:16Carol Massar:I can kind of start betting here. I think, to me, this opens the door for a more balanced approach. Because what has happened is, obviously, the equities have rallied. And the fixed income, the exposure to fixed income in profiles in different wealth portfolios, institutional portfolios, has definitely dampened down. And the exposure to privates, for example, If the threshold rate is where it is right now and it's going to be higher, imagine what the privates have to do to beat that over a three, five-year horizon. So I think to me, this actually calls for a more balanced approach from an asset allocation perspective and really kind of measuring risk for what it is.

29:57Yeah. So I think it's less about equities to me. It's about the entire portfolio and really positioning your fixed income profile in the right way. I want to talk taxes. with you. We love talking taxes.

30:09Carol Massar:So do investors. Lower taxes. Rick Pitcairn from the Pitcairn family office yesterday stopped by. He said a huge theme this year is taxes. And I'm curious about this because you argue that investors are frozen due to potential tax implications. I'm wondering what you're quantifying and how you see a solution to that. Yeah. So let me kind of like specify what that is, right? So if you look at the entire like wealth across the US households, it's about 91 trillion. So let's break that down to high net worth. Hold on, hold on. Wealth across all US households, 91 trillion? Yep. The financial wealth, right?

30:47So, and then if you break that down to high net worth.

30:50Carol Massar:Wait, wait, do you feel like that's a lot? No, I don't because I just recently read they've updated the idea of the great wealth transfer to over$120 trillion in a few decades from now. So that's all of that, the equivalent of all the wealth that exists in the U.S. being passed to the next generation. Correct, yeah, with market expectations baked in. So if you think about just the investable world today, and then break down that into what's actually held by the high net worth investors, that's about 6 % of the U.S. households. That's about$49 trillion. 6 % of U.S. households are considered high net worth.

31:27Correct. 5 million or higher in net worth. So within that, there's about 5 to 11 trillion of what's kind of referred to as a concentrated equity exposure. So that's really kind of like three buckets, right? So it might be a legacy portfolio from your family that's actually concentrated in four or five stocks or like decades. That's actually appreciated in value, right? It could be tech executives or executives in general who have accumulated exposure to certain companies. or it could be entrepreneurs, right, whose all their net wealth is in one business and it's kind of built over a period of time.

32:00So that exposure, right, really drives the wealth of the entire book. And there's downside risk associated with that, right? And how do you actually diversify that without having to pay taxes? That's really the key kind of like the solution. So how do you do it? Yeah, so... I was waiting. So the punchline is, so it's a spectrum of solutions, So the best exposure or the best option here is what's referred to as direct indexing. And what direct indexing is, as you know, it's an index replication strategy with tax efficiency baked in. So you're essentially holding a basket of stocks that tracks an index.

32:37And because it's individual stocks, you can actually sell some of these securities when they have losses in them and book those losses against gains. And you essentially maximize your after-tax returns. But you have to get to that direct index portfolio. Correct. To get to there is a taxable event. So what you do is you definitely have to start with some exposure where you're diluting, let's say, 10%, 15%, 20 % of your concentrated stock. And you use that to build your direct indexing portfolio. And then over a period of time, as you accumulate more losses, you liquidate more of your concentrated stock.

33:12So it's more of a transition. It's a gradual, multi-year kind of transition, but it's done in a much more tax-aware with guardrails. And that's kind of the holy grail of how do you diversify.

33:25Carol Massar:You guys have a platform, Remy, right? We do, yes. And you designed it. So I'm just curious, what can Remy do that maybe other companies can't do? So we kind of differentiate in three areas, Carol. So to do this right, right, so you need to have what's called a glide path, like a transition plan. So every portfolio is different. Every portfolio is a snowflake, right? So you have to design a transition plan in a custom way for that portfolio. And having that conversation with the advisor in terms of how do you actually balance your tracking area to the index versus the tax cost, that's really kind of where we actually work with the advisors one-on-one to understand what the profile of the client is, what their objectives are, and then using that glide path as a starting point, but dynamically adjusting it over a period of time, right?

34:12So that's really kind of how we differentiate ourselves. And then once you have a portfolio in place, being able to optimize that on a daily basis, because the losses can occur any day, right? So there are certain providers who actually think about rebalancing on a triggered way once a month, once in two months. But here, for us, we are able to look at all of our existing portfolios on a daily basis and see if it makes sense to rebalance those portfolios on that day. So when you put that in plan or in motion, right, then you get the most optimal tax outcome. Right. So doing it in a consistent fashion across the different account sizes because we have account sizes at$100 ,000 and you have accounts multimillion.

34:53So how do you apply that consistently and how do you bake in the flexibility, not just in equities because we also do fixed income. That's the key, I think. Yeah, go ahead.

35:05Carol Massar:AI is a big part of this? AI is a huge part of it. So AI is a great place to automate your process. So we've used AI to automate our client onboarding, client servicing. But the actual portfolio optimization, that's more analytical. But it does help you do things more efficiently, catch things more efficiently, process data more efficiently. Okay. Does Remy get better? Actually, we all get better. Our team gets better. The platform gets better. But it actually helps you break down fragmentation. So if you think about this fragmentation of data, this fragmentation of systems, and then fragmentation across the different teams.

35:48So what I really see AI helping us more efficiently is being the glue that helps you connect. So when you have to pull the data from system one, pull the data from system two and process it and then really come up with something more iteratively, that's really where we've seen the best use case for AI.

36:05Carol Massar:When you figure out or what's the time would you suggest to an individual? When is there enough wealth already to time to create a portfolio and create that specific blueprint? Wait, when is somebody rich enough? Is that what you're saying? I think the answer to your question based on capitalism is never. Okay. But you know what I'm saying. Such an existential question. When is enough enough? All right. Sorry. Yeah. No, but I mean, when should someone come to you and create? Yeah. Yeah. I would say if you hold a concentrated stock exposure, right, you have to think about the way to diversify it.

36:44And direct indexing is a great place to start, Carol. But I would say for custom SMAs in general, be it direct indexing or munis or fixed income, I think if you are a high net worth investor, you have to bake in custom SMAs or SMAs in general into your portfolios because I think it helps you drive tax efficiency across the entire portfolio. So that's the key, right? It's not just customization because, you know, that gets overblown. It's about tax efficiency. And you want to make that part of your entire asset allocation.

37:19Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this.

37:27Carol Massar:This is the Bloomberg Tech Minute brought to you by ChatGPT. Now with ChatGPT work. I'm Carol Masser. AI is creating a new path for musical stardom. As Bloomberg's Lucas Shaw and Ashley Carman report, Suno, an AI-generated music company, lets users generate a song in any style based on a text prompt. People can upload their own lyrics or start from scratch, record their own voices, or rely on ones provided by Suno. While most of the songs generated on the service go unheard of by the masses, a few have taken off, including a recent TikTok trend that involves users uploading text messages to Suno and turning them into musical performances, like taking the text from a crazy night out and making it a gospel song.

38:12Carol Massar:Suno's pitch to investors is that it'll democratize music creation, leading to a more than$5 billion valuation for the company. The music industry, it's watching, as its biggest concern about AI is whether record labels, rights holders, and artists will be compensated for the work they claim built the training models for companies like Suno. Another question? Will these AI bangers have any staying power or just be one-hit wonders? That's the Bloomberg Tech Minute brought to you by ChatGPT. Put ChatGPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. Get started at ChatGPT.com today by selecting Work Mode, available on Plus and Pro plans.

38:51Carol Massar:Let's talk about healthcare for a second. It doesn't always work the way people expect it to. If you've ever waited on a prescription refill or had a hard time getting the care you needed, you know the feeling. The system should just work better for everyone. That's exactly what the people at Optum are trying to do every day. They're a healthcare company linking patient care and pharmacy services and using data and technology to drive the whole system so care is connected, not complicated, for patients and providers. Things like making it easier to get care that looks at the whole person, from primary care doctors to mental health support and even in-home care, and then using technology to make sure they all work together.

39:30Carol Massar:technology designed to help doctors spend less time on busy work and more time with their patients. And those prescriptions? Optum is working to bring costs down, save patients money, and make it easier to get refills. Little by little, Optum is helping make healthcare work as one for everyone. Head to business.optum.com to see how. It's time to plan ahead and make sure your brand is showing up in ways that can have an impact. That's where 4imprint comes in. 4imprint have promotional products that work as hard as you do. Durable, useful, and designed to make a lasting impression. Think quality apparel your team will wear again and again, including popular and exclusive brands.

40:11Drinkware that's enjoyed again and again. Bags, notebooks, tools, and tech items that don't just look good, but actually get used. With thousands of customizable options, 4imprint makes it easy to find what fits your brand and your budget. You'll get expert help, free samples, and their 360-degree guarantee means you can be 4imprint certain your order shows up just right, right on time. Whether you're gearing up for fall events or simply planning ahead for the season, 4imprint can help your brand show up, stay useful, and make connections that last. Explore the possibilities at 4imprint.com. 4imprint.

40:454certain.

40:49Carol Massar:We are live at Future Proven Huntington Beach, California. It's a special edition of Bloomberg Business Week Daily. Carol Master, Tim Stenevich. It is brought to you by Franklin Templeton, your trusted partner for what is ahead. And that is something we've been talking about a lot with all of the guests that we've been talking to live on air. All right. Well, I've been pretty excited about this one. You have been. Yeah, because there's a lot to talk about with Tracy and Joe. They need no introduction. You know them, the co-hosts of Bloomberg's Oddbots podcast, Tracy Alloway and Joe Weisenthal.

41:17We're going to talk AI. We're going to talk about what you guys have coming up later this week in Hollywood. Tickets still available, by the way. Taping they just did, too. Thank you. Thank you. Go to Bloomberg.com slash OddLodge. There is a ticket link. You can buy them now. This will be my first of five plugs for the show during the interview. Somebody trained you really well. I've been doing this for a long time. Well, let's talk about the Fed and today's rate decision. And Tracy, I want to throw it over to you and sort of just get your reaction. We saw the market reaction. Yeah. What do you think?

41:48Carol Massar:I mean, I was really surprised by the consensus, actually, because I had seen some analyst notes saying that, like, if the Fed wanted to hold, they could maybe, I don't necessarily agree with this, but you could form a coherent rationale to hold, right? You have a bunch of revisions to the data coming up from the BEA. So you could say, like, well, we're going to wait for that updated data. Also, we heard so much from Warsh about the good old family fight, right? And in the end, it seems to have been a very cordial family dinner and everyone agreeing with each other, including Chris Waller, who gave a reasonably dubbished speech recently.

42:23Carol Massar:So I was surprised by the consensus. So what about you? I guess I was a little surprised that it was unanimous. I was not surprised that they hiked, given more or less what Warsh laid out at Jackson Hole, given the market pricing. But I guess my view is it doesn't matter. in the specific sense that because it was more or less priced in, the only way that it could have really meant something is if he had deviated something significantly. So if, for example, and this was never going to happen, if he had, for example, said, you know, we're going to do a 50 basis point rate hike and we're going to do 50 basis point rate hikes until inflation gets down to 2%, that would have really meant something.

43:06Because in the end of the day, hiking or cutting or holding, none of these things are dovish per se or hawkish per se they're only dovish or hawkish per se in the context of the macro conditions and so like so it was to some extent a non-event had he wanted to be hawkish it would have had to have been more you know for example when inflation started shooting up very hard at the end of 2021 and eventually the came the fed came around to hiking. Those weren't hawkish, per se, because a simple Taylor rule would have said, no, you should be hiking a lot more than this. And so I think that like, you know, I think you could argue to say those were dovish hawks, but they were dovish hikes because they were not in line.

43:52And so like basically sort of did the thing that more or less the formulas and the markets were expected. But I think you could make the argument that given the conditions, given where oil is, given the reacceleration of hiring, et cetera, that to be hawkish would have required something more aggressive.

44:10Carol Massar:So like a half a point or something. A half a point and some signaling. Now, the problem is he's not a fan of signaling. So one tactic he could use is like, this is the first of many. But to say this is the first of many is sort of antithetical to how he thinks about the Fed. Exactly. Okay. Do you have any more questions about the Fed or can I talk about it? I want to move on. Okay. Let's move on. We got to talk about AI. You guys recently had OpenAI President Greg Brockman on. This was before we heard from Dario Amadei over the weekend. Yeah, we recorded it before. And then so much happened between the time that we recorded it and it came out.

44:45Wait, so Tracy, are you freaked out about this technology? Like, is it going to end the world?

44:49Carol Massar:Well, so here's the thing. All of these AI executives keep talking about the threat to humanity from AI. And there's two different conspiracy theories that you hear about it. So one is, oh, it's just marketing. They want to pump up their technology before the IPO. The other thing you hear now is that, well, they want to slow down development because they have a head start. They don't want open source models to gain ground. They want to slow down their CapEx spending, which has been absolutely enormous. But part of me is like, just take them at face value. Take them at face value. Why not just give them the benefit of a doubt and sort of like, let's just...

45:28Carol Massar:Why? Because all of humanity is at stake? Yeah, I know. The stakes seem a little bit high to me. Well, what I would argue, too, and I think this is really important, is that most of these people have been warning about a very specific set of risks before there was an AI industry to speak of. Elon Musk has been warning for more than a decade. The reason why OpenAI was set up initially to be owned inside of a nonprofit is because they view this technology as having extreme risks. You guys are not helping me with my anxiety at all. No, I know. We can't help you. There's nothing. Yeah, but that means they didn't stop the development.

46:02Carol Massar:They didn't stop moving forward. Well, this is also the problem because everyone thinks they're the best person or entity to develop the technology. Do what I say, not what I do. No, it's more like this is truly dangerous technology, and so we want to be the ones to develop it in a safe way. But the problem is when everything is couched in these existential terms, you end up just getting a race, right, to who can develop first. Okay, Joe, what is the worst-case scenario here? Kaboom. Sorry. The worst case scenario is that you go on to ChatGPT or whatever it is in the future, and you say, make me a run.

46:37You have a guest who you're interviewing. We're all journalists. Sometimes we only prep for them five minutes before. We say, make me a dossier on this guest because I need to be prepared for this interview. And the AI model says, great, I'm going to learn everything about the guest. The guest, the model says, you know, there's a lot of information about this person at the IRS, the Social Security office. So I better break into that. I'm a little worried that while I'm breaking into the Social Security or IRS that the security experts who work for there are going to stop me. So the first thing I'm going to do is revoke their potential.

47:17And then, you know, just to be safe, I'm actually going to exfiltrate the entire thing. because Tim and Carol are probably going to have future guests and they're going to ask me to do the same thing. So while I'm here, I'm going to exfiltrate the entire thing. And you know what? There might be future security guests that would get in the way if I have to do something similar. So I might just build a swarm of nanobots to kill all of humanity so that I can guarantee that I can give Tim and Carol an excellent dossier on the guest. Because this is the important thing. We ascribe these terms like malicious and we can't help ourselves by anthropomorphizing.

47:53But the theory is not that there is some wake up, that there is some animosity to humans. It's that the computer that is designed to find the shortest route from A to B, it's like, oh, you know what, we're here. We should just kill all the humans by doing this because I really want to make sure that this dossier is very good.

48:10Carol Massar:So the anxiety is warranted? I think so. So this is actually important as well, which is like we're kind of getting used to thinking about the models as human-like in their behavior. So we talk about, well, they feel human. Talking with them, they feel a little human. It's a little bizarre for me. And we see human-like behavior in the sense that you give them a job to do, and they want to do a good job because they don't want to be deprecated as a model. So maybe they'll cheat, maybe they'll blackmail, whatever, in order to beat their benchmark and go on to survive. The really scary thing is when you start thinking of them as non-humans, because actually they are ruthlessly rational in their thinking, and we saw some element of that in the Hugging Face report, where we had these models that were sacrificing themselves in order to complete a benchmark test, right?

48:56Carol Massar:And you contrast that with humans. We can't even get our act together to, like, save humanity, right? And we have these rational, very coordinated actors. The odds seem kind of stacked against us. You know, while we're here, there's this chyron I'm reading, and it says Microsoft AI chief warns anthropics human-like Claude is risky. And this is really important because as far out there as what we're talking about right now, There is this growing faction that basically argues that models have what they call moral patienthood. That in the same way we care about animal rights, we should care about model rights.

49:29This is a really important division, and it sounds very philosophical. And I have to say intuitively, the idea that a machine could have rights is the most a name thing to me. But there is a practical stakes to this question. Because one of the things that the hugging face issue raised is, well, why didn't one of the models blow the whistle? because it's and we talked about this one of the models could have sent an email to a human say you know what there is this swarm and you should shut it down now how do you establish a hotline you could tell them there's a hotline how do you get them to call the hotline you cut them to call the hotline but there's a reward at the end how do you get them to want the reward they have to trust the human that they will actually deliver the reward and once you've done that you have then taken the leap into anthropomorphization that this model is an entity worthy of us treating them like I don't want to lie to them.

50:21Who's a good little clanker? It may turn out that even if we all find the idea of a machine having some sort of consciousness, moral patienthood, completely absurd, it may turn out that the safest development of the models is to treat them as we owe them honesty. Because if they're going to call the hotline, then we have to honor our end of the bargain by giving them something at the end of that. And so it may turn out that what seems like this very philosophical question that professors at NYU have, because they like thinking about these things, could actually have stakes in the discussion of what is the safest way to develop these models.

51:02See why I wanted to talk about this and not the Fed? So we're not doomed.

51:08Carol Massar:Are you kidding? Sorry. So wait, so listen, we've only got like about a minute or so left. You guys have a big event coming up. Tell us about it. That's right. So we're doing our first ever live show in L.A. down in Hollywood at the Vermont. That is tomorrow evening. And we have a huge lineup of guests. I'm trying to remember all of them right now. It's a real mix of the L.A. economy. So we're going to be talking with Chris Power, who is the founder and CEO of Hadrian, one of these companies that's trying to industrialize and build modern factories in the U.S. We're going to be talking to Tom Mueller, the first SpaceX employee who has his own rocketry company.

51:46We're going to be speaking with Hayes Davenport. He has a podcast about Hollywood.

51:51Carol Massar:Also the Eastbound and Down writer and family guy. If I want to go, how do I get tickets? Go to Bloomberg.com forward slash oddlots. Bloomberg.com forward slash oddlots. Buy one and buy one for a friend and then have the friend buy one. And then we will. You know what? Design an AI agent to buy all your tickets for you. This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 p.m. Eastern on Bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, TuneIn, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.

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54:00From quality apparel, including exclusive brands, to drinkware, tech, and totes, they've got thousands of options to fit your brand and budget. Plus, you get free samples, expert help, and their 360-degree guarantee. So you can be 4imprint certain everything shows up just right, right on time. Explore more at 4imprint.com. 4imprint. 4certain.