NASA Set to Launch Crew to Moon for First Time in 50 Years

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1:52With Carol Masser and Tim Stenevek on Bloomberg Radio. Hours away from sending NASA astronauts back to the moon. They are, well, kind of around the moon, I should say. They are poised to lift off this evening on a 10-day journey that will slingshot them around the moon, marking humanity's return to the lunar vicinity for the first time, Tim, in more than half a century. So it's been a long time. He's got a front row seat to it all. Bloomberg Tech co-host Ed Ludlow. He's at Kennedy Space Center in Florida. Ed, set the scene for us. What's going on around you and where are these astronauts as they do make their way to the vehicle to head to the launch pad?

2:28Yeah, the crew left Kennedy Space Center in the last 15 minutes. They got into their modified what's essentially an RV, the lunar bus, on their way to the pad. And it's so difficult. There's no certainty in space, guys, right? Especially when human life is involved and this is a human crew. But everything is tracking. You know, the fueling of the SLS rocket and launch system was completed at about 1 p.m. local time. And, you know, we are tracking as best we can to 624 p.m. Eastern time to take off. And I am not a meteorologist, as I said to Tim earlier on Bloomberg Television. But, you know, the biggest factor probably is the weather.

3:11Well, how is the weather? That's where I wanted to go, because that is such a big factor of whether or not these things happen. Yeah, officially, you know, the weather office, the meteorologists at NASA assigned 80%, 80 % favorable conditions. And what we're looking for right now out here at KSC is cumulus clouds that are within the vicinity of launch complex 39B. Essentially, the cumulus cloud, you're looking for two things. Can that cloud evolve into a rain cloud? That is a factor. but in proximity to SLS if we do launch what would the effect of SLS and the Orion spacecraft atop it going through a cumulus cloud mean you know the on board uh at the base of of the the SLS system is a rocket that is powered by hydrogen as the fuel and and oxygen as the accelerant or oxidizer and the lightning risk is very real that's why there are three 600 feet tall lightning towers around the launch pad because lightning lights to find the highest point so like all of this is very real but it's weird like everyone is very chill very confident um cautiously optimistic how's it different well how is it different than other you've been to quite a few of these and not necessarily you know directly related to what this crew is doing because this is a first in 50 years but how does this compare to other launches that you've been to well many of the launches that i've been to have been SpaceX right and they've been Falcon 9 different technology different design different fuel different size if we go with Artemis 2 tonight the combined SLS system with the Orion spacecraft it's a 322 foot system that has solid motor rocket boosters on the side capable of 8.8 million pounds of thrust at liftoff that makes it the most powerful human rated, human certified system to ever launch from Earth.

5:11And like on paper, SpaceX's Starship, which I've seen as well, you know, is capable of much more power and thrust. But, you know, Starship is nowhere close to carrying humans at this moment in time. So that's the significance of it. And this is a system that's only flown once before 2022 in an uncrewed mission. It's a program that is over budget and behind in literally years. So there is a lot riding on this. This is the big dress rehearsal for America and NASA's ambitions to return Americans, humans to the moon. So I want to go back to Matt Miller, who kind of, I think, approached him, approached me.

5:52I was not happy. He was he's like, you know, put his cell his his iPhone in my face and just said, hey, you know, we had less than this, you know, when astronauts and when NASA first went to the moon. I mean, why is it so complicated? Why have there been so many problems? Why does it cost so much? Why, you know, taking out inflation? But why has it been, why is this such a big deal when we've already been to the moon?

6:19There's two, there's this distinction there, Carol, right? There's what's happened in recent history and there's what's happened in history. In recent history, the Artemis program was hit by technology delays. For example, when they did the wet dress rehearsal of the system in February, they had a lot of issues with hydrogen is a great fuel for this use case. But because of the molecular composition of hydrogen, it requires very big tanks and it tends to leak. So that has been one issue that they've had to get over in the recent term. Artemis was first supposed to go in 2017. It didn't. It encountered delays.

6:56Then we had the COVID era, eventually went in 2022. Now, in history, why have we not tried to go back to the moon since the Apollo era? Well, it just wasn't really a priority for any of the administrations of the day since 1972. You know, the Artemis program has its origins in the Constellation program that the George W. Bush administration launched in 2005. But when Obama took office, he wasn't that interested in the moon. It wasn't until Trump won where America, through NASA as the agency, became refocused on this goal. But why is it important to have this goal? And I want to bring into, I know we've talked with you about this, or we've talked with the team about this, what China is up to.

7:38Like, why is it that everybody wants to kind of have some access to the moon again?

7:45Yeah, there's two parts to it. There's the political or the geopolitical. China has a stated ambition to get to the moon by 2030. NASA has accelerated its ambitions to return Americans and allies to the moon as early as 2028. That is a space race for the modern era. And then there is the resources. You know, there are minerals, there is oxygen, there is carbon within the moon's surface and within the moon that are useful to humankind going forward. And the final kind of part B of that is that, you know, NASA still holds ambition to take Americans to Mars and launching from Mars, establishing a resources base, a fueling base on Mars makes it easier than getting through Earth's atmosphere because of the differential in gravitational field and pool.

8:33So those are all real stated reasons for NASA going after this. And I want to go somewhere where we went a little earlier on Bloomberg Tech, and that's to SpaceX. This in the context of SpaceX filing confidentially for an IPO. You had that piece along with Bailey Lipschulz, a Bloomberg exclusive about the timing of this. You mentioned Starship, SpaceX's Starship. And a lot of the launches that you've been to have been for Falcon 9. SpaceX's huge Starship. Could Starship do what Artemis 2 is doing if Starship carried humans?

9:10Yes. I mean, specifically for Artemis, what we reported 10 days ago and then the NASA administrator confirmed is there is a proposal on the table from SpaceX to come in and change how Artemis would run. In SpaceX's proposal, SLS would carry Orion, the spacecraft, into low Earth orbit. Starship would dock with Orion in low Earth orbit and push it the rest of the way to the moon before going down to the moon's surface. the IPO what I understand from sources Bailey helped me in the reporting of that is that SpaceX filed confidentially for its IPO last night right notified the SEC but their rationale for going public is simply they need money to fund their future business plan for space-based data center and there Starship's at the heart of it as well if that's ever going to work Falcon 9 is not capable of carrying a data center in satellite form factor into orbit Only Starship could do that.

10:04And the economics of that are measured on a dollar per kilogram basis. That's all anyone cares about. SpaceX is yet to prove that bit out. So how do you think Elon Musk is watching tonight's launch? I think he'll probably weigh in on X, but how do you think he's watching it? You know, Elon Musk typically is complementary of his colleagues in industry and their achievements in the domain of space. He often will say, you know, space is really difficult. And what SpaceX did, particularly in the early days where they were on the cusp of bankruptcy and failure, you know, that is very hard to do. And so when others have made breakthroughs, including Jeff Bezos's Blue Origin, by the way, he's taken social media and been complimentary of it.

10:46You will have seen, you know, over time, he shared social media posts about the Artemis program. And, you know, it wouldn't be a surprise if he came out and wished them congratulations. But again, there is no certainty that we're going to go at 6.24 p.m. Eastern time. there is a good chance. And so we have to wait and see what happens. I know that's frustrating. Yeah, it's just kind of how it goes, right? It sometimes goes right down to the wire. Hey, before you go, if we may, we wanted to ask you about another story involving Microsoft and Chevron. Microsoft in exclusive talks with Chevron, the integrated oil giant, and the investment fund engine number one over a long-term deal that would underpin a giant power plant in West Texas providing electricity to a large data center campus.

11:29Is this just another sign of our times in terms of the AI and data center build and making sure you've got the energy to power it? Yeah. I mean, the hyperscalers, that is Amazon, Microsoft and Google, maybe with Oracle thrown in there, too, are the biggest corporate buyers of energy. In the data center context, you need to have control of the grid electricity. But how that electricity is generated can vary. You just need to guarantee supply. And basically, all these data centers that have been announced on paper, which we've been over, right, Carol, they have not yet got the energy supply on paper to match them.

12:06But in the context of what's going on with the Iran war, for example, people have come to realize Nat gas or gas is much more applicable to data centers at the moment. That seems to be the direction of travel as opposed to like how long it's going to take us to get nuclear sources, you know, other traditional carbon fuel based sources of generating electricity. I mean, this seems, though, that that this is the bottleneck when it comes to getting these data centers online.

12:34Yes. And also, you know, the issue is right. the data shows us the bloomberg data because of that deep investigative piece last year in zip codes where you build a data center right now energy prices have gone up yeah the counter argument from the hyperscalers themselves and from economists is that if you have big corporate buyers of electricity who buy at wholesale prices up front it will be deflationary in the long run provided that the supply exists and right now it doesn't exist this administration has put deregulation and expedition of permits at the heart of its AI strategy for that reason to like get this stuff built.

13:12Interesting stuff. We go around the world with him. I know. We go to space with him. You think he's going to put on a astronaut suit? I think those are reserved for the four astronauts. All right. All right. This time around, Ed Ludlow, looking forward to your continued coverage. Bloomberg Tech co-host Ed Ludlow at Kennedy Space Center in Florida. Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this.

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15:35Sample prompts are for illustrative purposes only, not investment advice. All investing involves risk of loss. See complete disclosures at public.com slash disclosures. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 p.m. Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube. We do want to mention there are some headlines coming from the Iranian president releasing a letter, as was promised, to the American people, addressing the American people. He said Iran never pursued aggression.

16:12His word telling Americans to look past the rhetoric. also to Americans, the Iranian president, U.S. ties among the most misunderstood. So again, a few letters, a few headlines, I should say, crossing the Bloomberg terminal. There are other media outlets who are also giving the entire letter. And I'm just looking at one, the full text, to the people of the United States of America, to all those who amid a flood of distortions and manufactured narratives continue to seek the truth and aspire to a better life. Iran, by this very name, character, and identity, is one of the oldest continuous civilizations in human history.

16:51Despite its historical and geographical advantages of various times, Iran has never in its modern history chosen the path of aggression, expansion, colonialism, or domination. We'll continue to ring your headlines as we do get them. In the meantime, just to hit on something that Charlie hit on just now, the Pentagon doubling its fleet of Air Force A-10 attack planes in the Middle East. That's an aircraft that supported advancing ground troops. This is according to the New York Times. The Air Force dispatching 18 so-called warthog aircraft to join the roughly one dozen A-10s already in the region that U.S.

17:20commanders have used to attack Iranian boats. And Iran-backed militias in Iraq. This, according to two Pentagon officials, according to The New York Times. I just want to go back to the end of this letter. And it says, today the world stands at crossroads. Continuing along the path of confrontation is more costly and futile than ever before. The choice between confrontation and engagement is both real and consequential. Its outcome will shape the future for generations to come. Again, this is from the Iranian president. Throughout its millennia of proud history, Iran has outlasted many aggressors.

17:49All that remains of them are tarnished names and history while Iran endures resilient, dignified, and proud. So this is, again, the pieces of the puzzle that we try to figure out what comes next in the U.S. war in Iran. Well, this is the environment that not just the U.S. is navigating right now, but it's also the environment that business leaders are navigating. Totally. Trying to understand the backdrop of a quickly changing situation, higher energy prices, and a world increasingly looking inward. Yeah, and something that we talk about, do you look through it or do you have to start now thinking and factoring it into your strategy?

18:18Rebecca Humkis is with us, lecturer at the London Business School and faculty at Duke Corporate Executive Education, previously served as a fellow at the White House's President Council of Economic Advisors, author of Survive, Reset, Thrive, Leading Breakthroughs, Growth Strategy in Volatile Times. She's here in studio. Thank you, Sarri, as we - That's okay. You know, this - We are in volatile times, yes. Well, tell us what you do talk to leaders and how they're, are they managing through like the U.S. war in Iran? Or what are they saying to you? What's top of mind? I think the challenge is that this is not a black or white situation.

18:49We really have, our strategic tools and playbooks are very much geared towards good times and bad times. Like, are we in an upturn? Are we in a downturn? And it sounds silly, but actually downturns are easier environments for executives to grow through. There's very standard playbooks that work. They know what to do. Uncertainty is much more challenging, right? And that's why we're seeing so much unease and hesitation right now. Is this a downturn? See, I don't think it is. And I think that's the challenge. Our brains are framed to see things that we can't explain and especially that we can't predict as negative.

19:19We can't really help it. And if you think about even how we talk to each other about uncertainty, we tend to always frame it as something bad. You know, we're asking each other as leaders, how are you handling uncertainty or dealing with uncertainty or managing uncertainty? We always frame our brains that the unknown is negative or bad. But uncertainty can actually be an amazing time to grow a company and for many, many reasons. But we need to stop framing the unknown as something that's bad. So if you want me to, I could make a very bare case right now. The bears have plenty of data to make a very bare case.

19:51But, you know, the bulls have some pretty good data, too. The challenge with data right now is we can't build linear models of what's going to happen next. So tell me the story you want me to tell and I can make the data somehow tell you that story. But that's interesting because, you know, we were kidding and talking before, you know, that before the war, we were constantly having conversations around AI. And I think you mentioned stagflation, like we were starting to look at that lower growth in a higher interest rate or a higher inflationary environment. So in terms of what is the fundamentals if you back out the war or is that even crazy to do anymore because things are going to be longer term impacted as a result of this war?

20:30The challenge with any prediction right now is it comes down to the duration and the devastation caused by the war. So when we went into this, there were many who believed it would be a couple of weeks. Anyone I work with, executives in energy or based in the Middle East, never thought it would be a couple of weeks. So most knew this would be six weeks, maybe a couple of months, which is looking, unfortunately, like that's what we're going to see. So if the duration is relatively short and the devastation to energy and asset fields there is relatively light, then we could see through this. And I think that's what the Fed is telling us in the last meeting.

21:01And that's what many executives are doing right now. But you are forced now to build a model for the other case where the duration is several months to until the end of the year and devastation to energy assets is much higher. Then we have this what we call this negative doom loop, right? Is if consumers are more uneasy, which they are during a period of a war, and we have consumer sentiment, we know that. That means foot traffic goes down, right? That means we need to change things that we're doing across all the spaces that affect consumer goods. Then, of course, energy prices go into inflation.

21:31Inflation goes up, but I'm more uneasy about my job because of a combination of AI and economic uncertainty. So all of these things start fueling each other, and then it becomes a very difficult job for the Fed to help us solve. $4.06 a gallon. Almost$4.07 a gallon. That's the latest from AAA. It's the highest going back to August of 2022. too. And the math is quite, you know, there's, if you want to do the simple math there, if we stay above$4 a gallon for the rest of the year, that's about an extra thousand dollars tax on the average consumer. Now for the year, for the year, I would be shocked if we did stay above$4 a gallon.

22:08But it's, you know, even if the war ends this weekend, it will be a couple of months before we see oil come back down to that$60 target. There are a lot of reasons why it was there before. And so things don't adjust automatically. So again, even if we have a couple more days, which doesn't look like it will, we're talking a couple of months. Do you care about data points or the economic data points that continue to come at us? Do leaders? Because you've got U.S. manufacturing activity expanded in March by the most since 2022. U.S. retail sales rebounded by more than forecast in February. A broad advance.

22:40Consumers stepping up spending after a slow start to the year. Read on private payrolls. U.S. companies added more jobs than expected last month, suggesting the labor market may be stabilized. We just have about 40 seconds left. I mean, that's real data. Do we trust it? Do we believe it? We trust all of the data, but we need to separate the headline from the storyline. We need to separate the K-shaped economy, which consumers are spending, which ones are not, what type of manufacturing sectors. And our job is to say, this is the headline, but this is a storyline that matters to me. These are the test and learns, what we call these feeding learning loops that I need in the market.

23:12So that's what leaders need to do. Nothing can build a linear model. Not one data point is going to tell you a story. we have to build a storyline that matters for you. Right. And it shapes what you do, right? Or don't do everything. And that's true for leaders, right? In terms of spending or holding back or what have you. Thank you. Sorry that we were a little bit short, but come back soon. I will. We would love you from London or right here. Rebecca Humkis, lecturer at the London Business School, faculty at Duke Corporate Executive Education. We mentioned her book, Survive, Reset, Thrive, Leading Breakthrough Growth Strategy in Volatile Times.

23:44This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at 2 p.m. Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg 1130. Well, from the president's speech to what investors will be watching out for. On that, we welcome Andrew Cesarowski, Morgan Stanley Investment Management Strategic Income Portfolio Manager, joining us from Boston. I want to start where we left off from Kaylee and that speech the president is set to give tonight because markets are, I wouldn't say on edge right now, but they're really looking for clarity from the president, whether we're talking about the equity market, the bond market or about what's going on with commodities and specifically oil.

24:32What are you watching out for tonight to hear from the president? Yeah, to be honest with you, I'm not expecting to get much in the way of clarity after the speech tonight. I mean, we know that obviously it seems like the administration is looking for a way out of this conflict. But there's two other sides to this as well. There's Israel, there's Iran. And kind of, you know, what everyone wants, I think, doesn't exactly line up. So I think Trump is looking to kind of calm markets, calm the U.S. economy. But I don't think he's going to be able to do that until we actually I think people have been there's been a couple of head fakes this over the course of the last month.

25:06And so, I think that investors, I don't expect Trump to kind of heighten things right now, but I don't expect to get any clarity that is ultimately too credible. All right. So, Steph continues. It sounds like, Andrew, let me ask you, Jamie Dimon said yesterday on Fox that the U.S. needs to permanently remove any threats from Iran, a call that comes as, you know, we've seen the markets bounce on hopes of a swift resolution to the conflict. We know that that can change depending on the headlines and what the messaging is. Do you agree, or even if that means a longer battle between the United States and Iran and more volatility and fallout in the markets and maybe even more of a longer-term impact?