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25:38It's how much of a premium is warranted, There will always be a premium for U.S. stocks. They do broadly screen as higher quality. But whether or not the premium has gotten out of hand because investors don't feel as though there's another option, particularly with tariffs, is the real question right now. Well, that's what I'm confused about. I thought everybody was saying that, wait, people were sending their money overseas, that they were kind of not so in when it came to or so keen on buying the U.S. market. In terms of flows, what have we in reality really seen? So we see flows as a bit of a backward-looking indicator rather than an indicator of what will happen going forward.

26:12Definitely the first quarter of the year, the U.S. was not the hot market to invest in. The U.S. was actually lagging so much behind international stocks, and it still is year-to-date, by the way. I don't think a lot of people realize this in local currency terms. Yeah, we talk about it. I knew you guys would be on top of it. But in local currency terms, the U.S. is still lagging. It's not as lagging as much as it was earlier in the year. There's a little bit of this idea right now that nowhere is safe, so you might as well invest in the U.S. But in terms of the fundamental outlook, we have seen further degradation in the U.S.

26:46outlook fundamentally than we have seen abroad, because the tariffs are going to hit the U.S. bottom line first before they hit anywhere else. That said, U.S. stocks may bounce back stronger ultimately. We have a lot of AI names here that may not be as affected by tariffs. And there's also this idea that companies can negotiate with Trump, like what we saw with with Apple investing 100 billion dollars in the U.S. last week. So there could be there could be some deals made still. I mean, you're looking at the IBEX in Spain. I mean, up. I'm just looking. Is it, you know, crazy? I mean, look at 30 percent, 40 percent in currency terms.

27:24I mean, look at the look at the Korean market. I mean, even look at the Chinese market. The best market on a trailing one-year basis is the Chinese market right now. Because they had such an astounding rebound. And what's interesting for us is we get all these questions about the U.S. market. How is the U.S. market getting too hot? And it's not the hottest market right now if you look across the globe. The Hang Seng is of 27%. It is. So far. And one of the things globally that's helping with concentration right now is this tech rally that's happening in China. It's not all about U.S. tech. And investors are wary of some of the risks that come in investing in Chinese companies.

28:01But there's definitely tech in emerging markets, like in Korea, like in China, like in Taiwan, that is doing phenomenally well and actually outperforming the U.S. and has a better forward fundamental outlook than the U.S. tech stocks right now. Is there a reversion to the mean happening? And what I mean by that is a reversion to global equities being the place to be rather than focused on the U.S. I mean, if we look at the past dozen years and the low interest rate environment, the U.S. market has outperformed everywhere else. Right. But that was if you look at a longer timeline, that's kind of an anomaly.

28:32It is. I mean, the U.S. it always never paid to bet against the U.S. Right. If you were underweight, the U.S. historically, you were not you were just going to underperform the globe. The U.S. consistently with the least amount of volatility does the best. But there are dips. And definitely this is a big regime change for the U.S. questions about U.S. exceptionalism are still on the line when the current tariff environment and questions about whether or not U.S. margins can be maintained that's on the line. And look, full disclosure, caveat, I'm asking you this question on a day where the S &P 500 is set to close at a new all-time high.

29:03That's the amazing question is the S &P is closing at a new all-time high despite the fact that tariffs are so much higher now than they were at the start of the year. But there's an uncertainty level that has also been taken out that they're not maybe a 50 % tariff, right, on average. Exactly. So we're seeing the bounce on that as well. Real quick thing, Bill Maloney of our squawk, Bloomberg squawk, saying off air when he was in here doing his report, the Invesco S &P 500 equal weight ETF trades to an all time low relative to the S &P 500 ETF. That's not surprising to me. Why? Just quickly. It's because of the concentration and what's moving the S &P 500.

29:39In terms of the names that have hit new highs in the S &P 500, It's not that many names, but they're big hitters. They're just names like Microsoft. They're names like NVIDIA. So when you look at this more equal weighted, you're going to see that, yes, there is a lag because the equal weighted index has not hit that high because there aren't enough participants right now. And again, just investors not interested bidding them up. We're not. Even though it may be a smarter play or an interesting play. Correct. But, you know, it's not it's not a bad thing. It says that there's room for the rally to continue to broaden potentially.

30:12Jillian Wolf, Bloomberg Intelligence Global Equity Strategist. Everyone's talking about how AI is transforming work, especially in sales. While the landscape shifts, one thing remains the same, the thrill of closing a deal. Whether it's a gong or a confetti machine, every team has its celebration rituals. Adio is designed for that moment. It's the agentic CRM that turns customer signals into actionable insights, helping you close deals faster with revenue agents and automations working around the clock. You'll have everything you need to scale your go-to market efforts. Elevate your wins with Adio.

30:43Start your free trial at adio.com slash iHeart. Join us for Bloomberg Power Players on September 10th in New York. Set against the backdrop of the U.S. Open Tennis Championships, Bloomberg convenes the leaders shaping the future of sports business. From athletes and team owners to commissioners and investors, hear the market-moving conversations driving the multi-trillion dollar sports economy. Register now at BloombergLive.com slash Power Players Radio. That's BloombergLive.com slash Power Players Radio. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 p.m.

31:23Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Or watch us live on YouTube. Well, U.S. Antimony reported earnings last night. The stock's selling off today down as much as 10 % despite a second quarter quarterly sales beat, excuse me, and a jump from last year. So you might be scratching your head a little bit and wondering why we are talking about this company today. It's not a household name. Got that. We do, though, talk an awful lot as of late about the race for rare earth minerals and the U.S. amping up its own access and supply. And it is companies like United States Antimony and its CEO that gives us an insight into the pursuit of rare earths, what's going on and how the U.S.

32:04gets where it needs to be. We welcome Gary Evans. He's chairman and CEO of United States Antimony. corporation. It's a small cap miner,$432 million market cap. Shares have more than doubled this year. And he joins us from our Bloomberg News Dallas Bureau. Also with us is Bloomberg News Economic Statecraft reporter Joe Doe. He is our go-to when it comes to all things rare earths. He's here in studio. Gary, welcome, welcome. You're not a household name, but I feel like we need to know more about what you are up to. Tell us about your operations, the mines, what you predominantly do right now. I'm sorry, we're having really audio problems.

32:42I can't even hear your question. Okay, we're going to fix that. In the meantime, we're going to bring in our Joe Doe because Joe, I do think there are these smaller names. We may not know about them. They're publicly held. Obviously, investors are noticing this company this year. Tell us a little bit about this company and its role in terms of mining and potentially rare earths. I think U.S. antimony is a good example of this kind of microcosm of all of these critical minerals and rare earth companies that are suddenly getting attention from donald trump and the white house it's the first thing to know why would you care about a u.s antimony company well you probably wouldn't but donald trump cares about critical minerals antimony is a critical mineral what it's best known for antimony is a use in hardening bullets ammunition antimony has always been important to the united states defense department and that's why they are on the radar all the time and particularly U.S.

33:33antimony. So, Gary, my understanding is we figured out our tech problems. We are talking with Gary Evans, chairman and CEO of the United States Antimony Corporation. He's there in our Dallas News Bureau. So, Gary, tell us about your world. And I am curious, are you in this pursuit by the U.S. to amp up its rare earth minerals exposure and capacity if the U.S. government is reaching out to you? So, first of all, it should be a distinction. we're in the category of critical minerals. There's critical minerals and there's rare earths. And so the public really needs to understand there's a significant distinction.

34:10Critical minerals, as an antimony producer, we're number one on the DOD's critical mineral list. And the problem is there is no antimony today being mined in either the United States or Canada. It all has to come from international sources. We were all getting, every country in the world was getting most of their antimony from China. China controls 65 % of world antimony ore, the raw ore in the ground, and they control 85 % of the downstream processing, which is what we do. So fortunately, we're in a position of having a smelter in Montana and one in Mexico, which makes us the only two operating smelters for antimony in North America.

34:50And therefore, as you said earlier, we're getting a lot of attention from the U.S. government. They want us to expand our operation. I think I read a report in April. We only have like a 5 % supply in our stockpile. So we're trying to ramp up our business to meet this critical need. And as Joe said, there's no question that antimony is needed by the military. It's used predominantly, as he said, in bullets. But it's also used in laser-guided missile, night vision cameras, night vision binoculars, and what have you. So it's a very necessary element for the military. Hey, Joe Doe, come on back in here.

35:30We heard from Gary just now that the antimony mining is not done here in the U.S. or in Canada. Is it possible to do it here in the U.S.? Do we have the material to mine and it's just not done for environmental reasons? It's not done because we don't have the mineral rights to it or the companies don't have the mineral rights to it. Like, why has this been moved to China? I understand from a processing perspective why that's happened with rare earths. But with a critical mineral like antimony, why is that not happening here? Well, I mean, I think you go to deposits. How good is the deposit? And you can pull it out of the ground.

36:02And then who can process it? And this is a question that I have talked about now quite a bit with Gary over the last few months. And, you know, Gary, I think you're better positioned to talk about that to an investor class. I mean, you know, you talked to your investors yesterday on your earnings call. and they asked you about the potential of beginning mining in the United States anytime soon. And you effectively told them, probably it's not going to happen anytime soon. So where is kind of the upside here? We've been working on acquiring leases in both Montana and Alaska. We've acquired close to 30 ,000 acres of property in Alaska, and we've taken over the mountain area where our smelter is.

36:47It used to be an area that we mined some 20 years ago. So it's coming. Right now, we're held up by permitting. We filed permits in Alaska back in May. And so getting back to your question, why isn't this being done? The EPA and the federal government, whether it be the Forest Service, the BLM, Native Tribes, everybody tried to stop mining in the United States. And unfortunately, our laws allowed that. And that's why you see mining occurring all over the world except the U.S. It's coming back. There's no doubt this administration is very pro-mining. And we have the resources. There's no question that we can meet the demand for the United States with just our Alaska properties.

37:29We have no doubt about that. And that's going to happen soon. I would think in the next 30 days we'll be able to bring our first loads of antimony truck from Alaska to our facility in Thompson Falls, Montana. Gary, how would you describe the conversations now with members of the Trump administration with this government versus your conversations during the Biden administration? How are they different? Well, we started talking to the Department of Defense back last September. This was right when China banned all antimony sales to any country in the world. And, of course, our Department of Defense was getting all their antimony from China.

38:06So it raised a lot of red flags. And we've been negotiating various agreements and contracts with the Department of Defense and the DLA since that period of time. As we mentioned on the call yesterday, we're very close, we think, to announcing some things. It's not done yet. But there's definitely a mindset change addressing your question from the Biden administration to the Trump administration. For instance, we'll have to respond to a request from the DOD, and they say, can you have it to us by Friday? We give it to them Friday, 5 o 'clock, and by 8.30 Monday morning, we have a red line response.

38:43It's not very often you see the government working over the weekend. So there's no question this is a high ticket item with our existing administration, and there's a fire bin lit. Gary, despite the fact that you're getting a lot more attention from the Trump administration and they seem to be speeding things up, I'd still ask, what is the holdup? And I know this was a big question you got on the call yesterday with investors. They kind of seem to be saying, when are you going to get some sort of announcement from the government? What's going on? We're in a period where contractual changes are being made.

39:15There was an open comment period with respect to the DLA that ended actually yesterday afternoon. So I'm very confident we're near the finish line. But it has taken an inordinate amount of time. And there's been a lot of reasons that I can't really talk about today for that delay. But we have to make sure that whatever contract or whatever agreement we sign with the government is beneficial to our shareholders. And the first drafts were not. And so we had to make sure that we negotiated as best we could to maximize the value for our shareholders, but also give the federal government a fair trade.

39:52We pay taxes, we know. And so that was very necessary. Forgive me if I miss this, but is the agreement that you might be working out with the government akin to what we saw with MP Materials, which has a$400 million equity investment by the Department of Defense into the company? And we know that MP Materials is certainly working specifically in the rare earths materials area. So could it possibly be that the government, DOD, makes an equity investment in you guys as part of an agreement so that you can do what you need to in terms of ramping up either production or your facilities? So obviously that's on the table, I think, with us as well as a lot of other companies.

40:40I think we're in a little bit unique position in that we have a$450 million market cap. We have our own cash. We have our own capital. We need more of a big brother than a huge capital investment. Now, as we ramp up this year and do the things that we've told the public we plan on doing and the DOD, I think there's a very good chance in 2026 if we want to do another smelter, if we want to do another project. We also are involved in tungsten and cobalt, two other critical minerals. Then those type of opportunities exist. But what we're negotiating today and have been for the last eight months is something different.

41:20It's very positive for our company, but it's not a direct investment by the government. Gary, I want to kind of bring people into what's at stake here, or at least what is being said is at stake. As you mentioned, the Chinese officials put an export control on antimony, which came well after the germanium and gallium that so many people talked about a couple years ago. Have you guys experienced any of these effects of export controls on antimony from China? Yes, unfortunately, we have. We were acquiring material from a company out of Australia, and we were taking that material. their 55-ton container loads to our smelter in Madero, Mexico.

42:03And that particular, this third load that we acquired was transloaded over in China in April. And the Chinese Customs confiscated our container, took it off the ship, and held it for 90 days. Gave us no reason. All the paperwork was correct. It had been paid for. And we finally had to get the State Department and the White House involved. For some reason, finally, they released it. It showed back up in Australia, did not come to us. They sent it back to Australia, arrived there about three or four days ago. It's currently on a ship to Mexico now. So from now on, obviously, whoever we buy antimony from, we are putting our contracts.

42:44It cannot stop in China because China did this for whatever reason. We know this company used to sell antimony to China. Maybe they were mad. The fact that it said U.S. antimony on it maybe was ticked them off. I don't know. But they definitely made a statement with what they did. We're speaking with Gary Evans, chairman and CEO of United States Antimony Corp. Also with us, U.S. economic statecraft reporter Joe Doe. Gary, a follow up on that. I mean, what does this really say? Should people actually be concerned? I mean, eventually your antimony is getting to you here at your Mexico location. Are we sounding too many alarm bells on this front?

43:27I don't think so. I doubt in our lifetimes we'll ever see antimony coming out of China again. We know their largest mine was depleted last year. Ever? And so, ever. I don't think we'll ever see antimony coming out of China. There is truly a worldwide shortage of this product. It is so difficult for us to find product. That's why we went and started mining it ourselves. There's just not any supply. Presidents love to talk about energy independence. It doesn't matter if they're Democrats or Republicans. Do we get to a point where they can talk about antimony independence and we can get 100 % of what the U.S.

44:05needs from U.S. supplies? I have no doubt that we can meet all the needs of our government as well as our industrial customers from Canada, the United States, and Mexico. We don't need to go anywhere else. When will we be able to do that? in the next three to five years. It's not going to happen overnight. You know, in the last few years, you would have said Canada, United States, and Mexico, and I would have thought, okay, that could work. These countries can all work together. But over the last few months, we've seen trade tensions flare, especially with our neighbors to the north and our neighbors to the south.

44:38How does that affect the way you look at the industry and your own business? No question that, you know, Mexico has a new president. She's very anti-mining. Fortunately, the mines that we have in Mexico are grandfathered. But, you know, there needs to be greater collaboration. Now, the DOD looks at Canada just like it was the United States. So any project we find up there, the DOD likes it and looks at it as a domiciled country. Wait, is that as a separate country or because they want to take it over? Well, you know, the 51st state, of course, is what I'm talking about. So you're saying relations between the two nations are comfortable.

45:13And despite what we have in the headlines, you're saying that they are working and cooperating because they understand they kind of need each other. You know, Canada needs antimony just as bad as the United States needs antimony. And Canada is a very pro-mining country. So that's why we have a lot of activities, like I mentioned, in tungsten and cobalt in Canada. Gary, these conversations you have with defense officials, how dire are they indicating to you that the antimony shortage is for them? When you see the announcements we'll be making, you'll understand it's pretty dire. Can you give us some?

45:53We have the lowest amount of antimony supplies in the inventory for our government since World War II. You've got to remember, we're funding Israel, we're funding Ukraine, and we've dwindled our supplies. And at the same time, China cut us off, so it's a double-edged sword. People are waking up that, hey, we have a problem. So what does that mean for national defense? What would your message be to viewers and listeners right now about how critical this mineral is? It's an extremely critical mineral. And there's people that have tried to replicate antimony with other synthetic antimony. It hasn't worked very well at all.

46:31In fact, it's three times expensive. I do think there will be continued upward pressure on the price because we cannot meet. We can't come close to meet our customer's demands. We're changing that. We have a substantial expansion going on in Montana that will be done by the end of the year. But, you know, it's just going to take some time. It's not going to happen overnight. It's not like there's a huge pile of antimony sitting over here in some country wanting to go to market. It's all it's all depleted. So we're having to find new areas and to find the ore. Gary, how long has the dwindling supply issue been going on for?

47:03And I'm just curious if you had conversations with the Biden administration as well. Well, because China was selling so much antimony around the world, nobody cared about it. China kept the price artificially low, less than$5 a pound. Today, the price is$25 to$27 a pound and probably going higher. I really believe we'll see$50 a pound in the next year. So, you know, the fact that we were so dependent upon China and had blindfolds on that all of a sudden they cut it off. It had nothing to do with Trump coming in office. This happened last September. So it's been a year since they cut everybody off.

47:43It's not just the United States. They cut off every country in the world, the European Union, all other countries that were buying antimony. You can sell antimony to China, but you get nothing back in return other than cash. Gary, what's the biggest hurdle U.S. antimony faces right now in getting more antimony production up and out the door? If I had my permits right now in Alaska and in Montana, I'd have antimony in our smelters. I don't have those permits yet. And, you know, we're doing everything we can to speed it along. There's people in Alaska that don't want to see mining. And the group called Save Our Domes.

48:22We've done PR work. We're doing everything we can to grease the skids, to make sure that people understand that we're trying to clean up. This is antimony left on the ground the last 100 years from gold miners in Alaska. We're picking it up, putting it in super sacks, and bringing it to Montana. We're cleaning up the place, and people are fighting that. So it's an education process. So we've got a lot of PR we're doing, and we're obviously working with senators, House members. We're working with the president. We're working with a lot of people. You'll see some other news about that next week.

48:54Gary, would the Defense Department be your only customer? We currently have 17 industrial customers. We have one particular customer. It would take 100 % of our supply. So that gives you an idea. The industrial side is much greater than the Department of Defense. And that's one thing in these contracts we've been working on. They've made sure that we don't take away the business from the industrial side. And that's why we're ramping up, because the government needs a stockpile, which they currently don't have. And we're the only provider. There's nobody else. It's China. It's U.S. antimony and a smelter in Belgium.

49:31That's it for the whole world. All right. We're going to have to leave it there. I've got to say this is one of those interviews. I know Joe knows this stuff, but I certainly take a lot away from it. Gary, thank you so much. Gary Evans, Chairman and CEO of U.S. Antimony, joining us from our bureau in Dallas. and, of course, our in-house expert on all things when it comes to mining, Bloomberg News Economic Statecraft reporter Joe Doe. By the way, shares of U.S. antimony, Tim, they're up about 117 % year-to-date. This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts.

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