Weekend Law: GOP Map Loss, Abortion Pill Fight & Contaminated Drinking Water

12 Sep 2026 · 38 min · 21 chapters

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In short

Episode topic: Three legal stories—(1) Missouri congressional redistricting after Supreme Court blocks a GOP map; (2) USPS mail-ballot rules challenged in emergency Supreme Court posture; (3) Fifth Circuit rulings on Jackson, Mississippi’s contaminated lead water and on Louisiana’s effort to restrict mifepristone access in blue states.

Guests and backgrounds

Jonathan Diaz, Director of Voting Advocacy and Partnerships at the Campaign Legal Center; environmental lawyer Jennifer Novak; Mary Ziegler, UC Davis Law School professor and reproductive-rights expert.

Key claims

Missouri must revert to its 2022 “6-2” map for November; USPS lacks authority to impose new technical mail-ballot requirements without congressional authorization; Fifth Circuit says no constitutional right to clean drinking water or truthful public information; Louisiana’s mifepristone challenge faces standing/authority limits and likely won’t succeed immediately due to prior Supreme Court orders.

Notable examples

Emanuel Cleaver’s district effectively eliminated by the unlawful Missouri gerrymander; Judge Talwani’s injunction against USPS rules; Jackson’s lead exposure known by 2013; Louisiana’s claimed mifepristone risk rise (4% to 11%) and telehealth/mailing disputes.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

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Missouri's Gerrymandering Legal Battle

0:00 to 0:35

Overview of the Supreme Court's decision on Missouri's congressional map.

“Some people treat ChatGPT like some kind of smart search engine, and some use it to get work done.”

Missouri's Gerrymandering Legal Battle

1:36 to 5:12

Overview of the Supreme Court's decision on Missouri's congressional map.

“It's a defining moment in the legal battle over the state's maps that has spanned almost a year and spawned confusion among voters.”

Mail Ballot Controversy and USPS Regulations

5:12 to 12:37

Discussion on the implications of new USPS regulations for mail voting.

“Let's turn now to the confusion, some might say chaos, over mail ballots, where there is litigation in several different courts.”

Jackson's Water Crisis: The Background

16:09 to 17:51

Discussing the contamination of Jackson's drinking water and the citizens' lawsuit.

“Residents of Jackson, Mississippi, say it was more than just inept government when the city allowed their drinking water to become contaminated by lead and then falsely claimed the water was safe to drink.”

Residents' Arguments Under the Constitution

17:52 to 19:46

Exploring the residents' claims of constitutional violations regarding water safety.

“And by 2013, knew they had a real problem with the quality of water.”

Fifth Circuit's Decision Explained

19:47 to 21:08

Analyzing the Fifth Circuit's ruling on the residents' claims and constitutional rights.

“could ingest this water safely, and yet it was not safe to do so.”

Dissenting Opinions and Judicial Politics

21:09 to 22:39

Understanding the dissenting opinions in the Fifth Circuit case and political implications.

“This was a decision by the full Fifth Circuit, so en banc.”

Implications for Future Cases

22:40 to 24:12

Discussing the potential for Supreme Court involvement due to circuit splits.

“During the oral arguments, there were a lot of questions about how other circuits have ruled in this kind of case.”

Legal Remedies and Community Solutions

24:13 to 25:52

Exploring alternative legal remedies for Jackson's citizens and the role of governance.

“were to pursue tort claims, to elect officials who'll better manage the water system, and to petition representatives for other solutions.”

Constitutional Rights to Clean Water?

25:53 to 28:00

Debating whether the Constitution provides a right to clean drinking water.

“truthful press release that a government issues suddenly becomes, you know, my constitutional right has been violated in some way.”
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The Evolution of Constitutional Interpretation

28:00 to 28:41

Learn about how societal changes challenge originalist views of the Constitution.

“expectations of what the government is and its role and just our society have changed.”

Introduction to Abortion Pill Case

28:41 to 29:31

Introduction to Louisiana's challenge regarding the abortion pill access.

“Thanks for a great conversation, Jennifer.”

Red States and Abortion Access

31:36 to 31:51

Discussion on abortion access restrictions being pursued by red states.

“Proud partner of the iHeart Podcast Network.”

Louisiana's Legal Challenge Overview

31:51 to 33:26

An overview of Louisiana's case against the FDA regarding mifepristone.

“But Louisiana is trying to stop the Food and Drug Administration from allowing online and mail availability of the abortion pill, mifepristone, even in states where abortion is legal.”

Judicial Proceedings and Safety Data

33:26 to 34:05

Insights into the legal proceedings and safety arguments regarding mifepristone.

“the district court, the Fifth Circuit and the Supreme Court.”

Fifth Circuit Court Concerns

34:05 to 35:14

The Fifth Circuit's concerns about Louisiana's standing and legal authority.

“Supreme Court last spring allowed current access to mifepristone to remain in place while that process continues.”

Louisiana's Standing Arguments

35:14 to 36:53

Exploring Louisiana's arguments for standing in its suit against the FDA.

“had preserved existing access to mifepristone in the present and whether that had any effect on or limit on what the Fifth Circuit could do now.”

FDA's Position and Political Pressure

36:53 to 39:57

Discussion on the FDA's role and the political pressures surrounding mifepristone.

“Supreme Court concluded, it was not ultimately in Louisiana's favor.”

Future Prospects for Mifepristone

39:57 to 42:01

Speculations on the future of mifepristone access and judicial outcomes.

“because that could cause political backlash, but also doesn't want to take any position defending the current rules on Mifepristone either.”

Mifepristone Legal Challenges and Implications

42:01 to 44:14

Explore the ongoing legal battles surrounding Mifepristone and their political ramifications.

“So it's not clear what the Supreme Court will do.”

Mifepristone Legal Challenges and Implications

46:21 to 46:53

Explore the ongoing legal battles surrounding Mifepristone and their political ramifications.

“They set standards, broke records, empowered people to build bigger and higher, to dig deeper, to make the impossible possible.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00Some people treat ChatGPT like some kind of smart search engine, and some use it to get work done. ChatGPT Work is a new way of working in ChatGPT that can take action across your apps and files, stay with a project for hours if needed, and turn a goal into finished work. It's designed to help you move from a chaotic starting point to a reviewable first version. So all the source materials, briefs, and scattered information that you have to grind through to turn into something useful can just become something useful. Put ChatGPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting Work Mode.

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1:29This is Bloomberg Law with June Grosso from Bloomberg Radio. Twice this past week, the Supreme Court blocked Missouri from using a congressional map designed by Republican legislators to give the party control of seven of the state's eight congressional districts. It's a defining moment in the legal battle over the state's maps that has spanned almost a year and spawned confusion among voters. The decision means the state will use its congressional map from 2022, which is likely to produce six Republican districts and two Democratic districts. A loss for Republicans trying to maintain control of the House in the midterm elections.

2:14And no Supreme Court justice dissented from Thursday's order. Joining me is Jonathan Diaz, Director of Voting Advocacy and Partnerships at the Campaign Legal Center. Jonathan, this long-running dispute over Missouri's map reached the Supreme Court twice. Tell us about the sort of tortuous litigation. I mean, I think this is a perfect example of why mid-decade redistricting, especially during an election year, is such a problem and creates such a huge headache for voters and for election administrators, because we are now, you know, less than 60 days out from election day. And until the last few days, it was not clear what district map Missouri was going to use for their congressional elections.

2:59So there's been a lot of court maneuvering, including multiple attempts to go up to the Supreme Court. But the bottom line is that, you know, Missouri's state Supreme Court ruled that the gerrymander that was imposed by the legislature earlier this year that shifted Missouri from a map with six Republican-leaning districts and two Democratic-leaning districts to a new map that was seven Republican-leaning districts and one Democratic-leaning district, that that map was unlawful, that it violates the Missouri Constitution. And therefore, the Missouri Supreme Court ordered the state election officials to revert to the previous map, the 6-2 map.

3:35Secretary of State didn't like that. It is very last minute. He tried to go to federal court to reverse that decision. And the Supreme Court said, basically, you know, enough is enough. The state Supreme Court issued an order based on state law that you have to use the previous map. And the U.S. Supreme Court said, we're not going to disturb that order. And we're not going to allow lower federal courts to intervene at this point. So Missouri will use their previous congressional map this November. It'll go back to that kind of 6-2 split. That's where we are. Missouri used the new map for the primaries, but it will be using the old map for the midterms.

4:10Is that going to cause problems or confusion? The primary winners will remain on the ballot. It's just the district lines are different. So it will be all the same candidates who are elected in the primaries just, you know, using their old maps, using the old district lines now. And what they did with the new gerrymander was functionally eliminate a majority black district that's currently held by Congressman Emanuel Cleaver. And so he was still running for reelection, just on a much less favorable map. And this is it. No more litigation. Well, there's nowhere else for them to go. So this is it.

4:42They've gone up to the Supreme Court twice. The first time, you know, Justice Kavanaugh, who is the circuit justice for the circuit that covers Missouri, on his own, denied the secretary's request to stay the Missouri Supreme Court's decision. And then this time, the full Supreme Court, with no noted dissents, did stay the federal court decision that tried to bring us back to the new map again. So it's been a real seesaw back and forth between, you know, the old map, the new map, the old map, the new map. But at least for Missouri, this has been settled for these midterm elections. Let's turn now to the confusion, some might say chaos, over mail ballots, where there is litigation in several different courts.

5:21And we're waiting for the Supreme Court to decide whether the post office can impose new rules for the midterms. What's the state of play right now? Well, it has been a long and rather complicated saga around these new USPS regulations that the Postal Service formally published only a few weeks ago, but that have been kind of percolating since March. So to take us all the way back, in March 2026, President Trump issued an executive order that focused primarily on mail voting. That order directed the U.S. Postal Service to issue regulations that would mandate certain envelope requirements, certain barcode requirements, and new procedures that state and local election officials would have to follow in order for USPS to deliver ballots to voters in those states.

6:11There is no statutory authorization for any of this. The Postal Service is not, they're not election administrators. They deliver ballot mail just like they deliver all the other mail. And so this executive order and the regulations that USPS created to enforce it, you know, represent a huge shift in the way that mail voting would work in this country and would give USPS the authority to decline to deliver ballots to voters if the states or the counties who are sending those ballots don't meet every single new technical specification in these states. USPS regulations. There's been a flurry of litigation challenging both the executive order and the USPS regulations.

6:51Earlier this year, a district court in Massachusetts issued an injunction that found that the executive order was unconstitutional and enjoined USPS from issuing regulations to give effect to that order. That injunction was appealed. And a couple of months ago, the Supreme Court said that the injunction was issued too soon. They said that the issues were not yet ripe because the Postal Service hadn't actually issued any regulations. And so there was nothing really to challenge. And the district court acted too soon when it granted relief to the plaintiffs. But in that order, the Supreme Court said, if and when there is a final regulation that's in place, that might change things.

7:27So about two days after that Supreme Court order came down, USPS published their final regulation. And we all rushed back to court and started the process all over again. Judge Talwani in Massachusetts, again, issued an injunction blocking the USPS regulations from taking effect. She found that the regulations themselves are unlawful. They exceed the post office's statutory authority. They derive from an unconstitutional executive order. And critically, there is just no time to make these kind of huge changes before the midterm elections without disenfranchising millions of voters. And mail ballots have already been sent out in some states.

8:05So it seems like it would be almost impossible to comply with new rules. You know, state and local election officials from across the country, from red and blue and purple jurisdictions, have all told the courts, we cannot do this. Ballot envelopes have already been purchased. Barcodes have been placed on them. There is no time to redesign ballot mail in all of the 10 ,000 election jurisdictions across the country. And there's no money to do it. The vendors can't work fast enough. The counties have no more budget left. They've already spent the money that was appropriated to them to buy, you know, ballot mail and ballot paper and all of that.

8:41You know, in a state like Arizona, where 80 percent of voters voted by mail in 2024, you know, if they don't get their ballots, that's a huge logistical and operational problem for election officials across the state and across the country who are in very similar situations. Yet the Trump administration is trying to get a stay of Judge Talwani's injunction with a little twist on the normal practice. Kind of unusually, they simultaneously asked both the First Circuit Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court to stay the district court order. Normally, you would go to the circuit court first, and then if they say no, then go to SCOTUS.

9:19But DOJ decided not to wait. The First Circuit denied the government's request for a stay, leaving that injunction in place. And so now we await a decision from the U.S. Supreme Court. They stayed the previous injunction on that jurisdictional ground, on ripeness. But now they're faced with a very different question. You know, they have to address the merits of the government's position. The government says that these regulations are lawful, that they do have the authority to do this. The lower courts have disagreed so far. But I think the Supreme Court really also has to consider the equities of the situation right now and how disruptive an attempt to implement these new regulations would be in a situation where, you know, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Alabama have all already started sending ballots to voters.

10:02Every state has to send mail ballots at least to military and overseas voters by September 19th. And throughout all of this, USPS and the federal government have been unable to clearly say whether even they are ready to implement these rules, whether the portal that they're building is complete, whether they have the staff and the time and the functionality to do all the things that the regulations require them to do. So at this stage of the election cycle, to even be contemplating a change on this scale is crazy, which is, I think, why we have seen an unusually broad coalition of election officials, Democrats and Republicans, secretaries of state, county clerks, all going to the court and saying, you know, practically speaking, the implementation of a rule like this in September of an election year would be just unbelievably disruptive to the process of elections and would almost certainly result in voters not getting their ballots.

11:02So you'd expect that the Supreme Court would listen to the practicalities here, and they don't have to make a decision on the merits, right? Right. This is an emergency stay request. So we're in a kind of emergency posture on the shadow docket. They don't have to do a full opinion and everything. All they have to do is either grant or deny this government's state request. And how much reasoning they want to give us is unfortunately kind of up to them. Listeners may be familiar with the Purcell principle, this judicial doctrine that federal courts should be mindful of the administrative chaos that their decisions can have late in an election cycle.

11:43And if ever there were a case where the Purcell doctrine should apply, it's this one, where the federal government is trying to impose new regulations and new procedures on election processes nationwide at the 11th hour. And so I'm fairly confident that the court will see both the legal and practical realities here and not toss a bomb into election administration less than two months out. We won't know until they tell us. And I will note that if the Supreme Court had made a decision the first time this came to them, instead of taking a procedural off-ramp, there wouldn't have been all this litigation.

12:24And they had to know the case was coming back to them. This is a crisis, I think, in part of their own making, because they knew it was going to come back. But I imagine this time around, they will move more quickly, given where we are in the calendar. The legal issues are, I think, pretty straightforward here. The Constitution very clearly assigns the responsibility to legislate the time, place and manner of federal elections to the states, subject only to preemption by Congress. And it does not give the executive branch any authority, whether it's coming from the White House or the U.S. Postal Service, to regulate elections absent clear authorization from Congress, which they don't have here.

13:06So we should get an answer from the Supreme Court next week. Thanks so much, Jonathan. That's Jonathan Diaz of the Campaign Legal Center. Coming up next, the Fifth Circuit says there's no constitutional right to clean drinking water. I'm June Grosso, and this is Bloomberg. Some people treat ChatGPT like some kind of smart search engine, and some use it to get work done. ChatGPT Work is a new way of working in ChatGPT that can take action across your apps and files, stay with a project for hours if needed, and turn a goal into finished work. It's designed to help you move from a chaotic starting point to a reviewable first version.

13:44So all the source materials, briefs, and scattered information that you have to grind through to turn into something useful can just become something useful. Put ChatGPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting Work Mode, available on Plus and Pro plans. You already know how AI is changing how everyday work gets done. How much ground you can cover and how fast a team can scale. To stay ahead, you need the tools that give you a competitive advantage, built for this new era. Welcome to Agentic Revenue. Adio is the CRM for this world. It meets you where you work, compounds every customer signal into context, then acts on it across your pipeline to let you move at unmatched speed and scale.

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15:42One rate, no surprises. With global scale, enterprise performance, and predictable pricing, Wasabi helps organizations focus on innovation instead of cloud bills. Companies that are paying more in fees than in actual storage costs can fall behind. Don't let it happen. When your AI needs your data and you have a budget to meet, get Wasabi. Learn more and try now for free at wasabi.com. Wasabi, the AI storage cloud, proud partner of the iHeart Podcast Network. Residents of Jackson, Mississippi, say it was more than just inept government when the city allowed their drinking water to become contaminated by lead and then falsely claimed the water was safe to drink.

16:22They caused the lead to be in the water over the course of months and years. They knew what they were doing and they continue to choose to do it. They piped it into people's homes, then they lied to them about it. And people drank the water and were harmed. I think that's qualitatively different from the situation where there's just an inept government. The residents sued the city for violating their constitutional rights. But at the Fifth Circuit, the city argued that the residents hadn't established a violation of their due process rights. The Supreme Court has been clear that intermediate courts should be very hesitant to expand the limits of substantive process.

17:06Here, what plaintiffs are asking this court to do is second-guess decisions of state officials and whether those decisions were rational or not. And the Fifth Circuit sided with the city in a 10 to 5 decision, ruling that the Constitution doesn't provide a right to clean drinking water or to accurate information from public officials. Judge Kurt Englehart, a Trump appointee, wrote that while the deprivation of clean water was grievous, it did not infringe upon any deeply rooted constitutional right. Joining me is environmental lawyer Jennifer Novak. Jennifer, tell us about the underlying dispute here.

17:51In the Sterling case, the city of Jackson, Mississippi, was providing drinking water to its citizens. And by 2013, knew they had a real problem with the quality of water. And the combination of aging infrastructure using lead pipes, along with a high acidity level from where they were taking the water, meant that instead of just passing through the pipes, the water was picking up lead along the way. And by the time 2013 rolled around, the city was well aware that the levels of lead were at least two times too high for public health and safety. And yet it didn't tell the public that there was a problem.

18:32It continued to serve them the same water. And when questioned about the water quality, the city lied effectively, saying that the water was safe. So the citizens continued to drink it. And what ended up happening is once this was discovered, a number of citizens brought a lawsuit against city officials, citing our federal civil rights laws. Their 14th Amendment right to life and liberty and property had been violated because of these two different actions by the city officials. Tell us about the residents' argument that the contaminated water was a violation of their constitutional rights under the 14th Amendment.

19:14I mean, if we look at the literal text of the Constitution itself, obviously there is no right to clean water. But both the Fifth Amendment at the federal level and the 14th Amendment at the state level have been read to mean that we do have certain levels of bodily autonomy and integrity and that a state cannot, for example, allow an officer to assault you. They can't force you to have a surgery if you don't want it. And so it's along the lines of this bodily integrity that the plaintiffs were saying they had been violated because they were led to believe they could ingest this water safely, and yet it was not safe to do so.

19:56And presumably that meant they weren't really consenting to drink this contaminated water. And that was the equivalent of forcing them to take a medicine or ingest a poison or something along those lines. The court here relied on history and tradition to make its decision and said there was no historical basis to find such due process rights here. Quote, The Constitution does not provide redress for every governmental wrongdoing. Tell us more about how the majority came to its decision. Here in the Fifth Circuit, what they really held on to is perhaps not unsurprising, given the Dobbs decision by the Supreme Court, which is a look at history.

20:38And if we don't see that in history, courts were ruling a certain way, then we're not going to be the first court to do so. and saying, look, you have no right to government services. You don't even have a right to having the government give you services well. So you've been harmed. We recognize that. We feel bad for you. But that doesn't make it a constitutional right. And you need to pursue other remedies. That's really where the Fifth Circuit came out. And it does create a bit of an interesting situation. If you're a prisoner, you can't be forced to ingest something that you don't want to. And yet, if you're one of many people living in a city who presumably think you are drinking clean water and wouldn't drink it if you knew it was going to be harmful, perhaps you don't have that same right, even though it's the same constitution that we're talking about.

21:28This was a decision by the full Fifth Circuit, so en banc. The majority of 10 was composed of all Republican appointees. The dissent was composed of one George W. Bush appointee and the four liberals on the court. Does this issue break down along conservative liberal lines? It can be. What the dissenters noted was that this is a little bit different from saying that you have a right to have the state or a municipality give you clean water. This is a situation where the city has affirmatively taken on the obligation to serve its citizens drinking water. And we're not just talking about a situation where maybe they were incompetent, but once they knew they still failed to act in the citizens best interest.

22:18So the minority judges felt that this argument of there being a state created danger was one worth looking at and not necessarily that the plaintiffs would win, but that they had the right to pursue this a little further to see if maybe there was some traction there. Maybe they would uncover something that would allow them to keep going. During the oral arguments, there were a lot of questions about how other circuits have ruled in this kind of case. Is there now a split in the circuits, and might this be something the Supreme Court would take up? So there is a conflict. Most courts in the United States have not addressed this exact same situation.

23:01But we do have the Sixth Circuit, which heard all the Flint, Michigan cases on the Sixth Circuit came out differently saying, no, we think that the government did have a requirement to tell you the truth and you have the right to at least discover the true facts before we shut you down. And there is enough case law from other circuits. For example, in the Second Circuit, after 9-11, the EPA was found to have mischaracterized, misrepresented air quality, and the courts did not allow those lawsuits to go forward. So it's more aligned with the Fifth Circuit. So there is a bit of a contradiction as far as what the courts are finding, how they're applying those rights.

23:42And there's a tendency within the courts right now to say, we don't want to extend the Constitution to create new rights. We're going to interpret it more as a check on government power and just talk about what the government can't do to you, right? It could be something that the United States Supreme Court would want to take up because there is now a split. The question is whether if you are the Jackson City plaintiffs, that's where you want to go as opposed to trying a different tact. Some of the other options the majority suggested for the residents were to pursue tort claims, to elect officials who'll better manage the water system, and to petition representatives for other solutions.

24:27I saw that and, you know, one of them is always, well, you could elect somebody better. They do note that if you want damages, then tort claims are your only avenue and you can give it a shot. That doesn't mean it's going to be easy. It doesn't mean you're going to get everything that you believe you are entitled to. They coupled it also with you can work within the system. You know, perhaps your local officials will create some sort of fund or system of redress. And while the court doesn't get that specific, I think that's what they were alluding to, you know, that there could be some reparations at that level, in addition to electing better officials who will pay better attention to you, won't lie to you, etc.

25:09I'll note that if the issue is fixing the problem, you do have federal laws like the the Clean Water Act, the Safe Drinking Water Act, but those are to fix the problem and maybe penalize the actors that doesn't give you money for the damages that you may have suffered. The majority also found that you don't have the right to have officials tell you the truth. Am I putting that too simply or is that what they said? That's what they said. The Fifth Circuit said, of course, we want our public officials to be truthful and honest with us, but we just don't think that rises to the level of a constitutional right.

25:48And I agree with them. Again, it's a slippery slope if every not entirely truthful press release that a government issues suddenly becomes, you know, my constitutional right has been violated in some way. I do think at some point in time, you can probably go down that slope and find situations where that might rise to that type of infringement. But for the most part, I think it also has the danger of confusing situations where the government is acting on the best information it has at the time, learns something else and has to change direction or change opinion, change a policy. And at what point in time do we call that misrepresentation versus that's just the scientific process at work?

26:31Finally, Jennifer, what's your take on whether the Constitution covers the right to clean drinking water? I find it a little hard to square some of the cases where we have said, okay, that is a bodily integrity situation, but this one is not. And I don't know if at the end of the day, it becomes a constitutional question so much as a real fear. And maybe the best way I could put it is a no good deed going unpunished. If you're a city and you're providing drinking water or municipal waste services or something to the community to be helpful, you know, because that's what people think government should do, then you really might be opening yourself up to a whole slew of lawsuits and complaints over everything you might do wrong, every bad decision you make.

27:21So to that extent, I understand from a policy standpoint, we don't want this to rise to the level of a constitutional problem. And I think my real problem is when we have those contradictory interpretations. Well, we'll say it's fine if you're a prisoner being force fed something or being forced into a surgery, but if you're one of thousands, if not millions of people consuming lead in your water, oops, you know, I'm not going to say that we automatically have a right in the constitution to everything. But I probably do trend more toward looking at this as it's a little bit of a catch 22, right?

Read the full transcript

27:57We're going to say that historically speaking, we didn't recognize this as a right, therefore, we won't now, I think our expectations of what the government is and its role and just our society have changed. And I'm not going to hew to the exact words the Constitution say that that's the only thing it could ever mean. People didn't have municipal drinking water at the time that the Constitution was written. They were primarily relying on well water and other things. And we have drastically changed where we are as a society. And that's the problem with originalism, that the Constitution is supposed to mean today exactly what it meant when it was enacted, even though our world is so different from that of the founders.

28:41Thanks for a great conversation, Jennifer. That's environmental lawyer Jennifer Novak. Coming up next, Louisiana's case over the abortion pill could wipe out access in blue states. I'm June Grosso, and this is Bloomberg. Some people treat Chachy PT like some kind of smart search engine, and some use it to get work done. ChatGPT Work is a new way of working in ChatGPT that can take action across your apps and files, stay with a project for hours if needed, and turn a goal into finished work. It's designed to help you move from a chaotic starting point to a reviewable first version. So all the source materials, briefs, and scattered information that you have to grind through to turn into something useful can just become something useful.

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31:15One rate, no surprises. With global scale, enterprise performance, and predictable pricing, Wasabi helps organizations focus on innovation instead of cloud bills. Companies that are paying more in fees than in actual storage costs can fall behind. Don't let it happen. When your AI needs your data and you have a budget to meet, get Wasabi. Learn more and try now for free at wasabi.com. Wasabi, the AI storage cloud. Proud partner of the iHeart Podcast Network. work. Louisiana is one of at least six red states trying to restrict access to abortions in blue states. Four years ago, the Supreme Court ruled that individual states have the power to regulate abortion.

31:57But Louisiana is trying to stop the Food and Drug Administration from allowing online and mail availability of the abortion pill, mifepristone, even in states where abortion is legal. It claims the FDA relied on inaccurate data when forming its policy loosening requirements on the in-person dispensing of the drug. They say in their brief the risk went from 4 percent to 11 percent once the in-person requirement was lifted, that the women who took this would end up in the emergency room. And at oral arguments at the Fifth Circuit this week, Judge Stephen Higginson questioned their authority to act in light of the Supreme Court order in May, allowing Mifepristone to remain fully available while the legal fight goes forward and putting on hold a Fifth Circuit decision.

32:48Do you have any other circuit that has ever been as bold as to say, Supreme Court, we see you denied a preliminary injunction, but we're going to go ahead and do it again, and we can because then we'll stay the state. And Judge Priscilla Richmond questioned the FDA's connection to the mailing of mifepristone to states where it's classified as illegal. I'm having trouble finding anywhere in the record that the FDA has approved the mailing of this drug into states where it's unlawful to do that. My guest is Mary Ziegler, a professor at UC Davis Law School and an expert in reproductive rights. Mary, the procedural history here is very confusing because there are proceedings at the district court, the Fifth Circuit and the Supreme Court.

33:33So start by explaining why the district court judge put the state's lawsuit on hold. The FDA had asked for a pause to review safety data involving mifepristone. And the judge granted that request and asked the Trump administration for an update in October about how the study was going and said essentially if there weren't enough signs of progress for the judge's satisfaction that they may then grant Louisiana's request to immediately ban telehealth prescriptions. and the U.S. Supreme Court last spring allowed current access to mifepristone to remain in place while that process continues. So what Louisiana is looking for here is an immediate change in access to mifepristone while all these procedures continue.

34:20What's interesting is Louisiana acknowledges that it's already in a pretty good position and yet is still impatient for its demands to be met. It seemed like a lot of the oral argument was taken up with questions about whether Louisiana has standing to even bring this suit. It was largely about standing. There were lots of questions to the lawyer representing the FDA about whether and how the FDA had reviewed adverse event data, and the attorney representing the FDA consistently refused to take a position on those issues. So there was certainly some sign that the members of the Fifth Circuit were concerned about adverse event data, which makes sense given that their ruling last spring, turned pretty heavily on that.

35:05But there also seemed to be a lot of skepticism among the panel members about standing and also concerned about the timing of this, given that the Supreme Court had preserved existing access to mifepristone in the present and whether that had any effect on or limit on what the Fifth Circuit could do now. I mean, Judge Higginson basically said that the Supreme Court's ruling did limit their authority. Do we have authority to reimpose this day the Supreme Court has already said we can't? Exactly. And there was both a 2024 Supreme Court decision involving another challenge to Mifepristone filed by a group of anti-abortion doctors called the Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine.

35:47And then there was an order, a shadow docket order issued by the Supreme Court last year. So one question was whether the standing arguments made by Louisiana were pretty much an exact match for standing arguments the court had already rejected in that 2024 case, Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine. Another question was, given that the Supreme Court had frozen in place access to mifepristone in response to a request by the drugs manufacturer, Danko last spring, did the Fifth Circuit actually have the ability to ignore that and still give Louisiana an order immediately blocking access to Bitbopristone?

36:26So there's two different questions. And Louisiana tried to argue that it had a better argument for standing than the Doctors for Alliance and Hippocratic Medicine had. And they tried to argue independently that the Supreme Court's order last spring was a shadow docket ruling. So it was simply just too vague to have that binding effect on the Fifth Circuit because no one knows exactly who voted or what they were thinking or what their reasoning was. And while that's true, I think the panel was aware that whatever the Supreme Court concluded, it was not ultimately in Louisiana's favor. And so I think the panel judges at least signal that they might not be able to give Louisiana their relief at once because of the Supreme Court's order.

37:10The Supreme Court has had a lot of decisions recently limiting standing. What's Louisiana's argument that it has standing to bring this suit against the FDA? Louisiana has a couple of different standing arguments. One of them is essentially that it's being harmed because patients suffering complications from mifepristone are going to hospitals and some of those patients are relying on state Medicaid programs. They're arguing that Mifepristone rules impede Louisiana's power as a sovereign and its ability to enforce its criminal abortion laws. And they also argue in a kind of novel claim that the FDA was targeting Louisiana by permitting telehealth access to abortion, essentially seeking deliberately to undermine Louisiana's abortion laws.

37:57And has a court ever second-guessed the FDA's approval of a drug? Judges have not second guessed the approval of other drugs. There has, I mean, obviously, prior to the final resolution of the Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine case, there has been a previous effort to regulate FDA's approval and regulation of mifepristone. that's really been an outlier. And I think that was something that emerged in the argument, right? So when the Fifth Circuit was discussing the merits and adverse event reporting, an attorney for Danko made the point that the concerns that were raised about adverse event reporting and mifepristone could easily be applied to the approval of a lot of other drugs.

38:40So one of the other things lurking in the background here is whether the courts in general or the Fifth Circuit in particular will be setting a precedent for challenging all kinds of drug approvals if it goes down the road of allowing Louisiana to challenge nifopristone in this way. And as you referred to before, the FDA lawyer was in a strange posture trying to oppose this on procedural grounds, but refusing to give the judges information about the FDA and its procedures. That's right. So the FDA's attorney was clearly in a very awkward spot and had been instructed to not say anything about the merits, no matter what the judges on the Fifth Circuit asked, and would pretty much just repeat arguments about standing and ask the court to allow the FDA to continue its review of mifepristone without judicial intervention.

39:30This did lead to some kind of weird and awkward moments where, you know, the attorney for the FDA was refusing to answer questions about the FDA's statutory authority and other things that, you know, would easily come within the expertise of the FDA. So it was another, I think, reminder that the Trump administration has been in a kind of political bind when it comes to Mifepristone, because clearly the administration doesn't want anything changing with respect to Mifepristone before the midterm, because that could cause political backlash, but also doesn't want to take any position defending the current rules on Mifepristone either.

40:05So that kind of rock in a hard place reality was on full display at the argument. Is there a danger that the FDA might change its policy on Mifepristone during the Trump administration? Absolutely. I don't think there's much of a danger of that happening prior to the midterm. The Trump administration has actually said as much. But I think there's a danger both because the Trump administration has been under pressure from abortion opponents to change the rules on Mifepristone for some time, And also because, frankly, the courts are putting a lot of pressure on the Trump administration. So the district court in Louisiana has said that as litigation in this case continues, that court is leaning toward granting Louisiana the relief it seeks if the Trump administration doesn't give Louisiana what it wants.

40:52So the Trump administration is facing both political pressure and judicial pressure. So while I don't think it's likely we're going to see anything change before November, after the midterm, I think, is a very different story. Everyone seems to agree on one thing at least, that this is going to end up back at the Supreme Court. What do you think happens at that point? So it depends on what comes back to the Supreme Court. I mean, I think if the exact same questions the Supreme Court ruled on last spring or pretty close to the exact same questions come to the court again, we're likely to see the same result, right?

41:28Which is that the court is going to let access to Mipha Pristone stay in place while the case continues. What happens when the case comes back to the court again later in the litigation is anybody's guess, right? We have no idea what motivated the court's decision last spring because it was a shadow docket ruling. And we don't know if the court would rule differently if the FDA study, for example, was actually completed. One possibility is that the court agreed with the district judge and thought it would be better to let the FDA process play out before intervening. So it's not clear what the Supreme Court will do.

42:04I think it's unlikely that either the Fifth Circuit or the Supreme Court would grant Louisiana what it wants right now. But that doesn't mean Louisiana won't have better odds later. I think they have very good chance in the district court if the Trump administration doesn't put limits on Mifepristone telehealth access. I think that's probably true depending on the panel in the Fifth Circuit. It may be true in the U.S. Supreme Court, too. So I think at the moment, Louisiana is probably not going to get anywhere, but that's not forever in this case. That's just because Louisiana is kind of asking for a do over in terms of immediately blocking Mifepristone as opposed to down the line.

42:41And it's your guess that the Trump administration will do something to change the rules on Mifepristone. There's not really, in my mind, that much of a question that the Trump administration will eventually do something on Mifepristone. They may not have a choice because of the courts. And I think the question just is what and how much they actually put effort into enforcing new limits. And do you see a way for the blue states to get around this practically? Well, I think blue states are going to, if the Trump administration does this, try to make political hay out of it. This would be a deeply unpopular move.

43:15And of course, it would make abortion into a major election issue in 2028, because whoever is in the White House would reshape what the FDA is doing. it seems pretty clear that what the FDA is doing here is critically motivated. The Trump administration has been responding to a pretty steady drumbeat of pressure from pro-life groups, Republican lawmakers, and the like. Although there would be a lot of pressure on the Trump FDA not to put a lot of resources into enforcing new limits on mitzvah-pristone, I think there would also be a pretty big effort from blue state lawmakers and Democratic presidential candidates to make abortion into a major election issue in 2028.

43:51And I think that would probably work in a way it hadn't in 2024, because if the Trump administration does this, there would be a new national limit on abortion that would be the responsibility of Republicans, right, which was not true in 2024. No matter how many court decisions there are, abortion remains one of the most controversial issues in this country. Thanks so much, Mary. That's Professor Mary Ziegler of UC Davis Law School. And that's it for this edition of the Bloomberg Law Show. Remember, you can always get the latest legal news on our Bloomberg Law podcast. You can find them on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and at www.bloomberg.com slash podcast slash law.

44:32And remember to tune into the Bloomberg Law Show every weeknight at 10 p.m. Wall Street time. I'm June Grosso, and you're listening to Bloomberg.

45:10We'll be right back. and automations for every job in revenue, Adio orchestrates your work around the clock. Built to handle the scale of your workloads, extensible with API and MCP, and with the infrastructure to keep up with your most ambitious agents. Loved by high-growth startups like Granola, Modal, and Etched, Adio runs the work behind every win. That's Adio, the agentic CRM, the intelligent system that never sleeps. Picks up leads at 2 a.m., catches renewals before they slip, hands you the answer before you ask. Try Adio free at adio.com slash iHeart. That's adio.com slash iHeart.

46:08Never go up. Only at Boost Mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay$25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan. This episode is brought to you by Bobcat. They started the compact equipment industry through grit, determination, and a whole lot of, think we can't do that? Watch us. They set standards, broke records, empowered people to build bigger and higher, to dig deeper, to make the impossible possible. We've all been there. With doubters telling us what we can't do. Who cares what they think? We don't need their permission or forgiveness.

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From the publisher


June Grasso speaks to legal experts Jonathan Diaz of the Campaign Legal Center, environmental attorney Jennifer Novack and Professor Mary Ziegler of UC Davis Law School about the top legal stories of the week.

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