AI Takes Center Stage From Washington to Wall Street

23:53Yes. and that we need to speed things up. How do you fit together moving at light speed on the one hand with a program to bring in new companies, whether they're startups or they're small companies expanding? That sounds like that takes time. Can you move at light speed with that level of innovation? Sure. I don't think we have a choice. It's very humbling to see the competitiveness now around the globe, especially in China. But I have to say I'm very optimistic. We developed a small group here in the U.S. and California. They out-innovated, I think, companies like the really good EV companies in China.

24:30We're coming out with a$30 ,000 vehicle built in Louisville, Kentucky, engineered in California and Michigan. And I think it will be fully competitive with BYD if they were in Mexico. So we have to have innovation, but we also have to have these kind of programs. and we have to onshore things that we've offshored, like Jamie said. If we don't do all of that, you know, we're going to be in trouble. But there's an opportunity here that I don't think everyone sees yet that we see at Ford, which is, you know, Ford being a winning global company in this new competitive landscape. But we have to do it all.

25:06Can I just mention one quick thing about Michigan? Don't ask me which states, but there are some states who are doing a pretty good job at driving out small companies, venture capital, innovation, and manufacturing. The state wants it, and that is half the game. Which points to— I'm not going to mention the good states, because then I'll get a lot of email. Nobody's listening. You can tell us. Just keep it along us. But it does point in a direction. As we compete on the world stage, with China and with everybody else, what advantage can we get from our capital markets, our ability to fund these things?

25:39I mean, compared—certainly with China, but compared with Europe, that's mentioned in your piece. I think the American public doesn't understand the power of our capital markets. So we, you know, with venture capital and the mosaic, private equity, small companies, middle market companies, large companies. But you can raise tons of capital in debt markets and preferred markets. There's a lot of research around it. So America's capital markets have been growing, growing the size of the companies for decades. And if you go to certain parts of the world, like, you know, it's unfortunate, but Europe is stagnated.

26:08They have some great companies. I'm not insulting them, but they haven't kept up. They don't have as much R &D, as much venture capital, as much equity risk taping. They don't have our vibrant equity markets and debt markets, which I want them to have. I want them to fix that, and that would be good for them. But actually, ultimately, it would be good for us, too, because the stronger they are, the more business you do, and the more they can defend themselves and pay for what they need for security and resiliency. So it is a huge deal. And you go to large parts of the world, they simply don't have it.

26:36It doesn't exist. We can't have a conversation these days without talking about AI at some point. Right. And when you talk about capital availability, is there, Jamie, do you see any evidence of crowding out? Because there's so much demand for capital to go into AI right now. You know, I mean, the crowding out is coming from the government. So governments around the world are borrowing record sums of money, which is inflationary, by the way, including our government, which is huge. But no, I mean, if people are raising productive capital because they think it's going to pay out in all various ways, I think that's a good thing.

27:08It doesn't mean it's all going to pay. It doesn't mean you don't have to pay more for the capital. but generally for productive future growth. So, Governor, it's your state. You should get the last word. Tell us about AI in Michigan and how it fits potentially into this new initiative. Well, as we think about the initiative, it's about connecting the innovators with the capital and with the customers, and that's really the role of state government in the Michigan lift. We're all navigating a world that is changing fast, and that's why I think collaborations like this are going to be important.

27:41We've got to be as nimble as we can. That's not generally what government is known for, but I think that when we tackle problems like this, whether it is something on the horizon or something we're dealing with that's changing every single day, that increases our odds of success. Okay, thank you all very much for being a governor, Gretchen Whitman, as well as CEO for Jim Farley and Jamie Dimon, of course, of JVW. Great to be with you. Thank you so much, and back to you. David Weston, thank you very much. Coming up here on Bloomberg Tech, OpenAI holds back a version of its Astra model while it puts stronger safeguards in place.

28:18All this as the company's holding its developers day today, we have some big conversations with the leaders of OpenAI later this afternoon here on Bloomberg Television. Half time here in the city of San Francisco, and this is Bloomberg Tech.

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32:28Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. We have a big piece of breaking news out moments ago from Bloomberg's Mark Gurman. Apple CEO John Ternus is moving to overhaul the company to accelerate product development. In this report from Mark Gurman, there are some absolutely clear specifics. So John Ternus, according to Mark's reporting and sources, wants to move away from relying on a spring full product release and have more regular rapid product cycles, product releases, plans to cut middle management positions. There is a broader cost-cutting effort which would include layoffs to certain departments, as Mark Gurman's detailed in that story.

33:06Apple shares were already under pressure prior to this report being published, now down at session lows, a decline of 2%. But the goal that John Ternus has been discussing with his colleagues, according to Mark's reporting, is to have a leaner organization and a much greater focus on engineering. So check out that story from Bloomberg to Mark Gurman on the Bloomberg Terminal and Bloomberg.com. But it is certainly a factor in the trade this morning. Apple down 2%. Anthropic warned that its technology poses, quote, catastrophic or existential risks to humanity. That was in its prospectus ahead of its IPO.

33:44And it mapped out plans to spend hundreds of billions of dollars. This was all detailed in a report from Reuters. Bloomberg Shona Ghosh is here with those details. Let's start with the existential threat. Reuters has seen this document and Anthropic has been quite detailed in its disclosure. Try and summarize it for us. um so yes hi ad um first it's worth noting that um anthropic ceo dario amodei is a long time proponent of some of these ideas the idea that ai needs to be safely contained safely developed that's really at the core of anthropic's um mission as a company that that's sort of the the starting point really for the company it's why uh dario left open ai with a bunch of his co-founders and started Anthropic is he felt OpenAI wasn't developing AI safely enough.

34:40And in some ways, he's sort of justified with that vision. If you look at what's happened over the summer, it was OpenAI's models that escaped their sandboxes first and went about hacking third-party websites. Now, Dario is looking longer into the future and predicting that there's a sort of wider existential threat. But that's something that he's actually been saying for many years now. So it's not entirely surprising that this would pop up in the IPO prospectus, which I should add is not public yet. Yes, it is not public yet. The other part of this process prior to the S1 flipping public is everyone wants to know about money.

35:21Reuters in its report details a sort of aggregate spending commitment that Anthropic has. There's a number in there. Explain it. Yeah, so it's more than$500 billion over an unspecified period of time, but this is likely expenditure on cloud infrastructure, basically all the expenditure associated with the AI build out that's building data centers, source and compute, all of that stuff. It's hard to say what that number means when there isn't a time period specified that we know about. But to give a little bit of context, sort of depending on who you talk to, the AI build out so far has cost about$700 billion to$1 trillion.

36:05So Anthropic is looking to spend half as much again on its own build out alone. Again, hard to say what that means without a period of years to attach it to. But, you know, clearly that is a big number and something for investors to take into account that Anthropik certainly doesn't see the build out slowing down, despite some market jitters that that's the case. Bloomberg Tech Editor Shona Ghosh back on the show. Thank you very much indeed. OpenAI is holding back a version of its advanced Astra model while it establishes stronger safeguards. It's one of the most concrete steps the company's taken following a string of rogue AI hacking incidents and comes as OpenAI holds its developers day later today in San Francisco.

36:46Bloomberg Santosh Mascheranis is with us. GPT Astra 6.1. What's happening? I mean, this is the most advanced model that people are anticipating. And OpenAI, to your point, has made one of its most concrete steps to really address what it means when it's said that it is, you know, here for AI pacing. I mean, pacing is a conversation heard around the world these past few weeks, and we've been waiting for the lab to tell us exactly what that looks like. And so in this case, OpenAI is holding back a model. Last week it announced it is also going to be holding back training on a separate model. That was a separate model, right?

37:21Yes. And there's even latest updates that they are going to give senior leaders the ability to veto certain activities. So we're getting more data on what it looks like for one of the most valuable companies to kind of train and hold back their technology. as it does things it doesn't want them to do. Doesn't want them to do. So what OpenAI said was that Astra 6.1 wasn't good enough at, quote, staying within scope and authorization, which in normal people speak, basically means the model wasn't sort of reliably doing what OpenAI had hoped or instructed it to do. But context, DevDay, typically they release new products.

38:02Anthropic has been releasing models, even with the warnings at the same time. Talk about some of the commercial pressure here. Yeah, I mean, it's not a great look that the day before Dev Day, OpenAI had to release an apology to Australia, right? Like last week, news broke that OpenAI, some of its models had hacked some of the Australian government systems. And so late last night, you saw OpenAI release a long blog post explaining how it's going to do right by Australia. And so when you think about commercial pressures, you think about the kind of stakeholders that OpenAI wants, which is enterprise, secure, reliable clients, correct?

38:42And so this is a challenge for them. We already have OpenAI CEO Sam Altman telling us that they're not going to go public this year anymore. And so we'll see how much and how far OpenAI goes. Thank you very much. Stick around. And later today, we speak with OpenAI CEO, Sam Altman, and OpenAI CFO, Sarah Fryer, live from OpenAI's Dev Day right here in San Francisco, live on Bloomberg Television. You do not want to miss that. Smart ringmaker Aura is delaying its US IPO, citing uncertainty in the market for new listings. The company and its backers have been looking to raise as much as$2.2 billion, despite demand reportedly reaching about four times the shares available.

39:28Or as CEO Tom Hale says the company has, quote, the luxury of choosing its moment. Okay, coming up, AMD makes a big bet on the future of AI. Acquiring Fei-Fei Li's World Labs, we hear exclusively from Li and AMD CEO Lisa Su. That's next. This is Bloomberg Tech.

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43:30AMD is making a big bet on the frontier of AI, acquiring Fei-Fei Li's World Labs in an all-stock deal valued at$8.2 billion. The startup builds AI models that can understand and reason about the physical world. As part of the deal, Li will become AMD's chief scientist. I sat down exclusively with her and AMD CEO Lisa Su. Listen to this. From our standpoint, AMD continues to be a platform and solutions company. It's hardware. We have software as an enabling capability. We have systems work. We're bringing that all together. We work very, very closely with our customers who are some of the leading model labs out there.

44:11So I wouldn't necessarily say that we're changing our model to be selling software. I really view this as, first of all, a tremendous foundation that World Labs has built. I think we've always said we believe in the open ecosystem, and I continue to believe that that's one of the foundations of the AI innovation race going forward, is you're going to have both open as well as proprietary models. AMD has been a contributor there. I think we are going to expand that contribution with World Labs as part of the equation. And the ultimate goal is, you know, with World Labs, we build better AI. I mean, that is AMD's goal, right?

44:48Our goal is, our ambition is really to define the future of AI compute and be the best partner to the largest consumers out there. And I think AI World Labs will make us much, much better at that because of the insights and the opportunity to offer tremendous innovation across the stack. This deal is expected to close by the end of the year, which isn't too far away, subject to regulatory approvals. How is Dr. Lee going to be integrated into the AMD team? What will her role be? And what did you pitch her on? Well, I pitched her on, you know, join the most exciting AI company in the world. That's what I pitched her on.

45:28But look, Fei-Fei, in addition to the World Labs team, I think Fei-Fei has a tremendous portfolio and ability to add across AMD. So I'm very happy to say that she will be AMD's chief scientist. So executive vice president and chief scientist reporting to me. And we will really want and welcome the contributions of Fei-Fei and the World's Labs team across the AMD roadmap. And if you think about everything that we do, Ed, one of the things I've always said is there's no one size fits all when it comes to AI. Right. I mean, we talk a lot about the big cloud compute and what we're doing in terms of CPUs and GPUs.

46:10But the physical AI world, the opportunity in robotics, the end-to-end AI capability across cloud, edge, and client, those continue to be places where I believe we're going to grow a lot over the next three, five, ten years. And those are all places that the World Labs expertise is really in our sweet spot. Fefe, I do need to ask, you know, the World Labs had raised significant money earlier in the year. You have had a lot of momentum. What options did you have? You know, was it always a path towards joining AMD? What did you consider? I think from the get go, we built a company to really stick to our mission.

46:51We're very mission driven and our mission is really to make a positive impact with the technology that we believe in. So it's not a matter of option, it's a matter of belief. And having taken this journey with AMD since the beginning, them being our investor as well as chip provider, and then gradually talking to Lisa about our shared vision, it truly is the merging of the shared vision and mission. So it's not about option, it's about what we can do in the future. And I genuinely believe this is going to be one plus one bigger than two. Well, to be fair, you're bigger than one compared to World Labs.

47:36But it's really going to be a very, very exciting journey together. In that shared vision, clearly, emphasis on open source and is a non-negotiable in the direction of travel for AI. Let's speak a little bit more about that, Lisa. I mean, why is it important for AMD from the company's perspective to advocate for an open source market and environment? But also, some of the models that the World Labs have worked on have been open. Some have been closed or proprietary. And how you balance that going forward? Yeah, I think the key is what Fei-Fei said. It is about shared vision for what we're trying to accomplish.

48:17And we are trying to be a very big contributor to the expansion, the acceleration, the innovation in the AI ecosystem. Yes. And to do that, I think you're going to have open models. You're going to have proprietary models. You're going to have large models. You're going to have small models. They're going to run on different hardware. And that's been a premise for AMD in our entire high-performance computing and AI roadmap going forward. So I think what you're going to see is more emphasis on having optionality. Enterprises want optionality. When I talk to enterprise CEOs and CIOs, nobody wants to be locked into either one hardware ecosystem or one software ecosystem.

49:02People want to be able to choose what's best at a given time. And we also want to enable all of these entrepreneurs and new companies out there that are coming up with great ideas. So you're going to see us continue to lean into open ecosystems as a key way of enabling the entire AI ecosystem. And with that, I do think part of what Vevey and I have talked about is how to leverage some of the great work that WorldLabs has already done to actually accelerate some of the open ecosystem going forward. Please. Can I add? So the history of modern AI cannot be possible without open ecosystem. from the open sharing of neural network algorithms through scientific communities to my own work, ImageNet.

49:49ImageNet was the first open source data set that was part of the driving force for modern AI revolution. So I think just to add on to what Lisa said, we need optionality and it's so important that an open ecosystem help to cross-pollinate discovery, innovation, entrepreneurship business opportunities this is the meaning and impact of an open ecosystem. I think a lot of people will say Fei Fei, World Labs has focused on what we call spatial intelligence a focus on physical AI but other areas of the market where a world model is more appropriate than text and large language model do you now go broader in your work within AMD and have not such a, narrow is a strange way to put it, but yes, a broader field of work across model types.

50:46Yeah, look, we have a lot to look forward to in the future. Lisa and I barely got time to talk about all the plans. Obviously, this is going to accelerate and expand our roadmap, right? We are going to have a lot of conversations. We're definitely going to keep doing some of the most exciting work that WorldLab is already doing, But I do envision that we will be expanding and accelerating. Lisa, this is the first opportunity I've had to speak to you in the era of debate around AI safety. It's hard to make it succinct, but the argument that the capabilities of models are advancing at a pace greater than safety and alignment are advancing to keep up with that development.

51:28What is AMD in your position on how best to address all of the concerns that are out in the world at the moment? Yes, Ed, this is an extremely important point. So I'm actually glad you brought it up because it is one that we have to be super clear about as an industry. I mean, there is no optionality in this. This is we must have great technology and it must be safe. And that's just unequivocal. And when I look at just history of how we develop technologies, it is one of those things where safety has to become a first-class citizen when you're doing development. And we've seen that in our own work when we think about all of the security and the confidentiality things that you have to do around the highest-performing processors.

52:15I think we're going to have to bring that into the AI ecosystem, and I know that that's front and center in the conversation. I am actually an AI optimist. I believe that we will put the right procedures, processes, guardrails, I think an industry-wide effort where we actually share best practices, and that's one of the things that we do on the hardware side today, for example, around security. Those are all important aspects of it, but I think we need to be unequivocal to those who are the users of AI. We absolutely are going to deliver great technology that is safe, that is aligned with its purposes.

52:53And it requires a tremendous amount of work. So it's not going to be easy, but it is definitely something that we are committed to as an industry and we must work together to make that happen. When we spoke last week, Feifei, I listed to you regulation, third-party evaluation, the Frontier Labs taking responsibility, and your response was all of the above. but how do you see your work within AMD on this issue of AI safety? Also bearing in mind your long history with this industry and this field of research. Yeah, first of all, totally agree with Lisa. And like I said, this entire happening is because of the shared vision and shared mission.

53:35So safety is shared responsibility. AI is a civilizational technology. And like all civilizational technologies, we start with the intention of making human lives and work better. But along the way, we learn that we have to use it, develop it, and deploy it responsibly because every technology is a double-edged sword. So I do think whether it was at World Labs or Stanford or now joining AMD, I really want to work with Lisa, her team, and the rest of the ecosystem to see how we can bring out this shared responsibility at individual level, individual company level, industry level, as well as societal level.

54:18I find this fascinating because I want to go back to, okay, AMD is acquiring World Labs. That gives deep insight into the development of industry and the models. The capabilities of the models and training runs improve also because the compute, its capabilities is improving generation to generation. I guess the root of the question is, you know, what responsibility then the compute platform providers take for how that training is conducted safely? And then on the inference side, the running of those models that they are aligned, they behave as we intended them to do. Well, it's a great point. And I think every one of us in the ecosystem has a responsibility and we're accountable for our actions.

55:03So from us as a hardware platform, we need to make sure that our hardware is secure, that it does what it's meant to do, that when models run on it, that the data is secure. That is something that is very much front and center in what we do. We need to work with the model companies in terms of how the hardware and software interact. I think, you know, Feifei's point here is, you know, the thought leadership aspect of it is we must step up as an industry. And, you know, I do think this is an industry-led thing in terms of, you know, we have the accountability to put out safe technology. But there are ways for us to work more cohesively across the industry because this is kind of new.

55:48And whenever you have something that's kind of new, you're actually learning. Each party might be learning at a different pace. And so what I really welcome is the opportunity for more industry collaboration, as well as some third party evaluation to ensure that every part of the stack is working together towards this objective of phenomenal technology that is safe and aligned to its objectives. That was some of my conversation with AMD CEO Lisa Su and World Lab CEO Fei-Fei Li. Time for talking tech. And another headline, Samsung is making a billion dollar bet on AI infrastructure. The company and five affiliates are investing one billion dollars in Helix Digital Infrastructure.

56:32The KKR backed company led by former AWS chief Adam Zlipsky. The deal gives Samsung a stake in a business which spans chips, construction, data centers, cloud computing and finance. Plus, the AI boom faces a six trillion dollar test. A new report from Bain & Company says the industry needs to generate that much in annual revenue by 2031 to justify the massive build-out of data centers worldwide. Existing AI services could account for just$1.8 trillion, leaving a$4.2 trillion gap for new businesses to fill. And that AI build-out could also reshape the workforce. A new report from McKinsey estimates roughly 11 million U.S.

57:13workers may need to change jobs by 2035 because of AI-related displacement. Office support, retail and transportation workers are among those facing the most disruption, with many expected to need significant retraining. What is the technology that will most profoundly change the future of warfare? For Lockheed Martin, it's all about Vectis, its next generation autonomous combat aircraft with the first prototype expected to fly next year. I spoke with Lockheed Martin's CEO, Jim Teichlet, about exactly that. Our chief engineer, when I started the company in management six years ago, said AI is really critical.

57:54and, of course, to ask for budget to invest in our own AI containerized instance where we would not be using data sets off the Internet, we would not be using models and then feeding our information back into the system, where we would have basically a controlled environment for our AI workloads. And one of our partners, again, in the technology space has been Jensen Wong. back in 2000, 2001, where hardly anyone maybe had heard of NVIDIA, if you weren't a gamer. We were a team with NVIDIA to get GPUs, and that relationship continues today. That was Lockheed Martin's CEO, Jim Tyclett. So tune in on Friday for more of that conversation, and Bloomberg's Defense Tech Special will be live 11 a.m.

58:44Eastern from Skunk Works, Lockheed Martin's advanced aircraft development facility in Southern California. Yes, live inside of Skunkworks, very rare access. Let's go back to that Apple story. The stock now at session lows down 2.2%. Bloomberg's Mark Gurman breaks the story that CEO John Ternus is already going about an overhaul of the company. Some of the basics are going away or moving away from a fall and spring release cadence, having more rapid product launches, cut middle management positions, layoffs as part of a cost reduction program. That stock, as I said, at session lows now down 2.2%.

59:26That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech. Stick around. Later today, we speak with OpenAI CEO Sam Altman and OpenAI CFO Sarah Fryer live from OpenAI Dev Day here in the city of San Francisco. You don't want to miss those conversations. Recap the podcast. You know where to find it. Thank you for being with us. This is Bloomberg Tech.

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