OpenAI Pushes for Policies to Offset AI’s Impact

20:40So the big thing to keep in mind is if there's any holdup with the SEC, that could delay this process. But from our understanding, the company wants to move as quickly as possible, which would then mean a public flip where you formally see that S1 on Edgar and kind of being breaking news sometime in mid to late May, which would then set the stage for an IPO2 price and the company to start trading at some point in mid to late June.

21:03Caroline Hyde:Obviously, retail investors get excited. But who are the big players that are likely to be talking to at the moment? there has been reporting of big anchor investors who are being looked for? Anyone and everyone will be kind of tasked with investing. When you're looking to raise$75 billion, that's more than double the largest IPO of all time. And when you look at a book that, according to our reporting, they could try to sell about 30 % to retail, that's more than$22 billion. So you're still solving for a$50 billion problem, whether that's sovereign wealth funds around the world, whether that's institutional investors, and also, oh, by the way, probably being pitched to some of the largest strategic investors, just given the propensity for XAI orbital data centers and kind of the grand vision that Elon Musk is pitching.

21:44Caroline Hyde:Bloomberg's Bailey Lipschultz, thank you very much. Let's stick with expectations for a SpaceX IPO and other possible mega listings this year. Lise Baier is with us. She's the founder and partner of IPO advisory firm, Class 5 Group. Bailey was just talking about the test the waters meetings. And one of the things we've tried to report on in some detail over a number of years, it's not new, is the revenues break down at SpaceX, right? There was a point where it went from mostly launch to mostly Starlink. What I'm seeing and hearing right now is Starlink at the top end tracking to maybe$20 billion of revenues this year, you know, if they exceed.

22:19Caroline Hyde:How do you price an IPO on that data? It's the perfect question, and thanks for having me here. First of all, all the numbers we've seen so far are leaked numbers or rumored numbers or through the grapevine, until they flip that document public, we aren't really going to know what any of the numbers are. And then until they go out, as you just heard, and meet with investors and to test the waters, we're not going to know what the bank's expectations are for 2027, 2028. I presume they'll go out much further. But none of the numbers that are being bandied about in any way fundamentally correlate to a trillion dollar or a trillion and a half dollar or a two trillion dollar right valuation it's all it's all hope it's all do we believe the vision it's all do we believe that they will have limited competition which we know there's more coming uh so it's it's a leap of faith and there's going to be a lot of FOMO here and the best way to look at how to value it is to go way back to 1934, where you look at Graham and Dodd, who wrote the book on fundamental securities valuations.

23:35And they had a great comment that was applicable during the internet phase, and it's applicable now. And it's, hey, look, there are times, I'm paraphrasing, but there are times when there are new fields of endeavor, new companies in areas we've never seen before. And investors can, in fact, make a lot of money if they are involved early enough. But everybody needs to understand it is not a fundamental investment. It is a bet. It is a speculative bet. And that's what money at these valuations will be going into SpaceX. You roll the dice and you say, you know, Starlink's pretty cool.

24:13Caroline Hyde:Really? You think, Lisa, this is rolling a dice situation? That's certainly not going to be being discussed with banks talking to investors today. There is no math that correlates the current revenues to$2 trillion. None. So, yes, it's a bet on the future. And it's a compelling and potentially fascinating and enormous and also very uncertain future. Lise, typically before a big IPO of a late stage startup, they would raise a big round, right, largely to bring in the crossover investors. In this case, SpaceX merged with XAI, which changed the valuation dynamic, brought debt onto the balance sheet, etc.

24:54Caroline Hyde:What was your assessment of that transaction pre-IPO? Typical Musk, I would say. I think, again, until we know what the math looks like, it's very hard to make any sort of a sound assessment. It's clearly bundling things together. And heaven knows he's done pretty astonishing things in the past that have worked out and some that haven't. So it's we don't yet know. And again, I've not been on the test the waters meetings. Maybe they're explaining that. Maybe they're explaining this. But how the two are going to interact such that one in one equal eight. Does this have read across to any of the others in the pipeline, Lisa?

25:35Caroline Hyde:Or is this very much your view on Elon Musk and this bet on SpaceX? because there's also a better next AI and we have plenty of other AI companies potentially waiting in the wings. So from a general sense, when you have a very large IPO, and we've never seen one like this before, but we've had Alibaba, we've had Facebook, we've had other big, we had Saudi Aramco, although kind of a very different industry. When you have a big IPO that goes well, as Alibaba did, usually a number of the companies in the wings put the foot on the gas and say, we're going to take advantage of the fact that investors are feeling good about IPOs and you see much more activity.

26:12When you see a larger IPO that stumbles out of the gate, as Facebook did, people and companies go back into hibernation for a while. So this could be the opening of the door that certainly bankers would love to see. But we have to see how it plays.

26:28Caroline Hyde:Isabeya, it's been fascinating talking to you, partner and founder at Class 5 Group, about the lineup that's currently happening with all things public markets. Let's have a quick recap on the public markets right now as to what's happening when President Trump has been speaking. Some headlines have been coming out moments ago, part of the White House Easter egg roll, but of course conversation has moved into the world of Iran. We understand that President Trump currently is saying that Iran has some missiles and drones left and the Iranian people will fight the regime when it's safe for them to do so.

26:58Caroline Hyde:But more broadly, he's talking about Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon, Ed. He's also talking about his popularity right now, the American people wanting the U.S. to win and to come home. And more broadly, that he'd like this end to the current conflict end. OK, coming up on the program, we speak to Chris Lehane, OpenAI's chief global affairs officer, as the company releases social and economic policy proposals for the AI era. It's halftime in the program. We'll be right back. And this is Bloomberg Tech.

27:41Caroline Hyde:Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. In an era of artificial intelligence upheaval, OpenAI is proposing ways to spread the benefits of the technology and put people first. To start, it's published a set of policy recommendations ranging from a public wealth fund and expanded safety nets to shorter work weeks and faster electrical grid development for more OpenAI's Chief Global Affairs Officer. Chris Lehane is with us here on Bloomberg Tech. I mean, they are proposals. They are not formal proposals. But what I'm trying to understand with this, Chris, if we get the idea, is how everyday people would participate in it.

28:16Caroline Hyde:Who enacts it? OpenAI or government? But you're talking about people whose lives are impacted themselves by AI participating in it. Explain it. Yeah, that's exactly right. Let me take a step back. And Caroline, thanks for having me. So first and foremost, what this document really reflects is the work and thinking of open AI's researchers, the folks who are really building and innovating this AI technology. And I think they understand and recognize that this is technology that's on par with historic general purpose technologies of the past, the wheel, the printing press, the combustion engine, electricity.

28:55You know, each of those ultimately drove the human condition forward by driving economic progress. But every time one of these technologies came along, there was obviously challenges that came with it. And so what this document really is attempting to do is to put out some concepts and ideas that are really as transformative as the actual underlying technology. And so it's divided into two sections. One section really deals with an open economy, which is what you are talking about. how can we make sure AI is free, fair, safe? How can people participate as much as possible? And, you know, the sovereign wealth fund idea is something that we really took from what we had seen in Alaska with the Alaska Permanent Fund, where the entire population of Alaska gets to participate in the economics of the fossil fuel extraction in Alaska.

29:43But ultimately, there's a whole range of ideas. One of the, I think, at the core of all of this, though, particularly in the economic opportunity piece is the understanding that AI needs to be understood as a right that everyone in this country, everyone in the world has at least the opportunity to be able to participate in. And that's really what's fundamental to this.

30:04Caroline Hyde:I mean, Chris, a public or sovereign wealth fund is a very specific proposal. Have you discussed that idea with anyone within the administration? Who within the administration have you discussed that with? Yeah, I'm not going to get into specific names, which may be a shock to you, but we have certainly had those conversations with folks both in the administration. You obviously have the Trump accounts, you know, which is a version of some kind of a fund. I think in the last two or three weeks, I've probably met with a dozen, two dozen, actually, as I think about it, members of the United States Senate, where we've been talking about these types of concepts.

30:42And I think what's really going on right now is that there is a growing awareness from policymakers, particularly in Washington, D.C., of just how fast this technology is accelerating, the scale that it's going to be impacting all of us, and an interest and desire to really up-level the nature of the policy conversations. You know, to date, the conversations have really been almost binary. On one hand, there is an approach, keep your hands off, don't worry, everything's going to be great. On the other possible extreme, there is the Doomer view, which is that this is technology that's so powerful, only a small number of people should control it.

31:22We're really trying to put out a different approach. And this approach is based on actually offering solutions that are going to meet the technology, where the technology is, but doing it in a way that's inherently small-D democratic, working through the democratic process to actually identify the ideas that will allow this technology to benefit as many people as possible. And that's really what we're trying to put out here today. And this is a conversation starter, as you were alluding to. We don't pretend to have all of the answers. Certainly people have smarter ideas. People will pressure test these.

31:54But we do think we need to open up that proverbial Overton window so that we begin having these conversations now so that we can identify the solutions quickly.

32:04Caroline Hyde:Chris, the now is interesting. Yeah. Was it now prompted by this growing awareness that this isn't very popular with the general public right now? Or is it now because you've got something coming, the models are updating, an IPO is on the verge, and therefore you need to get ahead of the policy perspective too? It's really the latter, not the former. I mean, certainly when you talk about and you look at the underlying data, those who use AI tend to have a pretty positive to very positive perspective on it. And, you know, we're nearing a billion folks who are using this on a regular basis. So it's more and more people use AI.

32:42Obviously, perceptions of it understand how it's going to impact education, health care, their daily lives grows. But this is really at the core. And again, this came from our researchers who are really understanding where this technology is going and how quickly it's moving in that direction. that we do need to begin to identify those ideas, those solutions, those concepts that are going to meet the technology where it is. I mean, I've said this, but this technology is transformative. We're going to need policy ideas that are equally transformative. And if I could, I mean, maybe an analogy here is the New Deal.

33:14And I don't mean the New Deal in a sense that we believe that there's big government solutions for this. But what the New Deal ultimately recognized was that as technology drove industrialization, there really needed to be a calibration or perhaps a recalibration between the allocation of capital and labor to make sure that the social contract was really in balance.

33:35Caroline Hyde:And you want Labour to have more of a voice. I'm sorry. You want Labour to have more of a voice, Chris. And what's interesting is others are speaking to this too. Jamie Dimon putting out his letter to shareholders today, also talking about his view that this is moving quickly, it could eliminate some jobs. And his firm has got definitive plans on how we can support and redeploy our affected workforce. How is other business going to play a role, Chris? And also, what are the governments doing? You look at this from a global perspective. Where is doing this right versus the U.S.? Caroline, it's a great question.

34:09And I think you can see interesting pockets around the world. You know, when I travel to Asia, Japan, or Korea, you see a real focus on driving up AI literacy, raising the amount of people in those countries who actually understand how to use AI. I think Japan has a goal of 80 % of its country are graduating students literate by 2030. You go to places like Estonia, which has always been a digital forward country. They're building AI into their actual government infrastructure. Greece, we've spent a lot of time with the prime minister of Greece and his government. He's in the process of building AI into their public education system.

34:48And so you're seeing pockets of this. But again, I think part of what's behind this release of this particular document is our belief that we really do need to scale up the kinds of conversations that are taking place so that we're actually able to meet this technology where it is and moreover where it's going.

35:08Caroline Hyde:Chris, there's been some reporting from the information that your CFO, Sarah Fryer, has some concerns about the spending plan over the next few years and the reality of a timeline to IPO this year in disagreement with Sam Altman, your CEO. The report also details that Sarah Fry was excluded from some finance or investor meetings as a result of that disagreement. What can you tell us, please? So first of all, I'm actually blessed and privileged to work with an incredible team, not just in terms of the talent, but how well everyone really works together. Perhaps the greatest validation of both the team, our researchers, and really our overall strategy is that last week, as you all covered, right, we announced the single largest raise in history,$122 billion.

35:58And at the core of that, I think, was the validation of our focused, really laser-focused strategy, which is on compute. Compute is really Sam's insight. He deserves enormous credit for this. He was there long before anyone else. That it is the most finite and most precious resource when it comes to the intelligence age. and we have focused a lot of our work on making sure that we have access to that compute. That compute drives a flywheel, right? For every quantum of compute we get, we effectively get a 3x in revenue. And it works the following way. Compute drives innovation, what our researchers do.

36:33That then leads to more tools. Those tools lead to more users, right? We were the first to 10 million, first 100 million approaching.

36:44Caroline Hyde:I think we've lost this. approach. Chris, you're fine. Your Zoom froze for a moment there, but I'm going to go back to my question. Sarah Fryer was or was not excluded from meetings because of a disagreement on strategy with Sam Altman? We just raised$122 billion and Sarah Fryer was at the center of all of those meetings, pointed all of those conversations together. It's awesome to see the teamwork that exists between her, Sam, Fiji, our head of applications. And as I said, I get to work with a dream team in terms of talent and how well everyone works together. And again,$122 billion. It's not the amount of money, although that is a large amount of money.

37:27It is the fact that you've had probably one of the most impressive cap tables in the world. Take a look at our business strategy, take a look at our leadership, take a look at our researchers. It really gives us a huge vote of confidence. I mean, think about where we are from a revenue perspective. In 2024, I'm doing this off the top of my head. I think we had a billion dollars in revenue a quarter. We're now doing$2 billion in revenue a month. I mean, you just haven't seen growth numbers like that historically.

37:52Caroline Hyde:Let's talk about the talent because it's got bigger and there has been reshuffling. And our thoughts go to those with health issues, particularly Fuji as she takes a step back, Chris. But TBPN, that's coming under your leadership. Why? I'm so excited for this, Caroline. I am so excited for this. I'm excited for it for two reasons. On one hand, you know, these guys, Jordy and John and their whole team do as good a job as anyone out there in unpacking the why and the how behind technology and explicitly AI. I think folks come on to other media outlets. I mean, you guys do an incredible job of breaking news and scooping news.

38:32What these guys do is really break down ideas and scoop out what's behind those ideas. And at a time, and this even relates to the beginning of this conversation on the document that we put out today, at a time when we really need to be scaling how the world understands AI, these folks do one of the best jobs out there. We want to give them the resources so that their audience grows. And the second point here is that I'm able to bring in-house, really, in my view, what is the leading agency when it comes to being content forward and digital first. You know, a lot of analogies have been used. I mean, Bloomberg is obviously owned by a financial services company and then has a media entity in terms of, you know, analogies out there.

39:16I think there's actually a different analogy here that's a little bit more applicable. And that is you think about Apple under Steve Jobs in the 1980s and early 90s. They actually brought in Shia Day, which had been their outside marketing agency and created something called the Apple Media Lab. And it really became a model for how to build in-house marketing in an age when a lot of that marketing was done through what we would now call traditional advertising. We're at a different age today. Digital is at the center of the conversation. And I see this as an analogous to that, but for the digital age, we're bringing in, really, I think the best agency in the world to help us do the best job we possibly can do as we continue to grow.

39:58in terms of how we market and communicate. So I'm totally pumped for this. I'm really excited.

40:03Caroline Hyde:When you came on to talk about that communication, that potential of policy initiatives as well, Chris Lehane, we always wish we had another 10, 15 minutes with you. Chris Lehane of Uber. I thought we were going to get to talk about the NCAA championship tonight. Next time. We'll go off air for that. Chief Global Affairs Officer, we so appreciate you tuning in today and joining us. Meanwhile, coming up, a new show. Well, it's taking fun at the Silicon Valley so-called bubble. We sit down with the creator and star of the new AMC show, the audacity of Supreme Black Tech.

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43:25genius is not about figuring out the solution it's about being unhinged enough to do something outrageous with it fear impedes innovation i call that self-police brutality tech lives matter exactly that was a bit of the trailer

43:45Caroline Hyde:for the audacity it's a new should i say dark comedy coming to amc set inside the bubble of Silicon Valley. Pleased to say the show's executive producer, Jonathan Glatz is with us, as well as one of the stars, Billy Magnuson, who had slightly longer locks. Great to have you gentlemen on. Thank you so much. Let's poke some fun or let's have some reality check as well. What a time to be writing about what maybe you're presenting as masters of the universe in some way here. How did this come to bear? How relevant is it for our time? I think it's extremely relevant, but it is one of these funny things with television.

44:17You write it a year or so before it actually airs. So you're guessing at what might be relevant. And it's a difficult thing to chase, obviously, with tech. It's just moving way too fast to try to anticipate what the next thing is going to be. I think we managed to do that. It's kind of like sometimes the defense department brings in screenwriters to say, like, what would a great weapon be of the future? In a lot of ways, that's what we did in terms of, like, where we thought tech was going. The therapy bot, things like, even aspects that were major news items, like what happened with the VA and Doge and everything like that, is a major story point for us.

45:01But we wrote it before that actually happened.

45:05Caroline Hyde:Life imitating art. Indeed. Billy, what's interesting is, well, the XPRIZE actually is going out there at the moment wanting people to come up with more positive views of how technology is going to change. Because they want the next phone in the way that was inspired by Star Trek. But for you, how did you get into character? How did you think about this tension that we have of utopia versus, well, dystopia? Oh, that's quite interesting. You know, basically as an actor, you know, you take in, you decipher what you see out there. We know all the people in the headlines. We know who is in the tech titans of...

45:37Who are you?

45:37Caroline Hyde:Who are you most fascinated by? All of them, to tell you, too. I don't want to put names out there, but we know who they are. And then you just take the good, the bad, the ugly, and then you try to build a character through all that and make this melange of a character that I was like, okay, what's interesting to me? What's scary to me? Yeah, it's just, they're out there. We see them, we know who we are. And the best part about Jonathan Glatzer making the story, there's the tech titans, but Duncan Park is right under them and he is hungry for it. And it just kind of shows a little bit the toxic nature that can seep into these guys who probably genuinely, when they started, they had hope and had hope to build something positive for the world and then greed, corruption, all the beautiful things that we see out there seeps in.

46:21So beautiful. Yeah. And I think it was important also for there to be, for him to be a wannabe Titan, for that desperation to be there, to fuel the story, but also to not necessarily be influenced by the fame and the spotlight that the people at the very top of the ladder, we see them be like rock stars and I feel like that desire to be amongst them it was so important but not actually being one of them was was uh I guess it's a fun world he's created actually it's not it's just a again our job is to show a little bit of a mirror to reality oh hey I hear you no

47:04Caroline Hyde:I know I know you don't want to name names right so your character is an audacious data mining CEO I can tell you having been in Silicon Valley for a decade. Would you agree that's like the oil of that industry? So how do you prepare for that character? So there are some real world examples out there of the audacious data mining CEO. Go through the process. The process of it, honestly, it's just looking and regarding what's out there. And then you slowly just pull back each little layer of it and you make a beautiful dish out of it. And I think that's the fun part. Again, the world was created in Jonathan Glatzer's mind and like to have one of the most profound writers of our time.

47:44And I'll quote me on that. I think he is absolutely exceptional. That playground then is created for me just to dance on. And I couldn't be more grateful to be a collaborator with this fine gentleman to my right.

47:57Caroline Hyde:Likewise. Jonathan, I want to respect the specifics of the audacity and the distinction in genre almost. But I came to San Francisco in 2018 with several seasons of Silicon Valley under my belt. And that show so closely aligned with the culture, satirical, poked fun at what it is to be maybe the lower end of the spectrum, the startup, small scale, early stage. How conscious of that were you, that that exists out there, and how much you wanted Audacity to be representative of all of the capital that's here, intellectual and financial capital that underpins the technology industry? I think that I was a huge fan of Silicon Valley myself.

48:40It's brilliant, brilliant satire. It definitely is about a time in the Valley that was a little bit more optimistic. the garage incubator type of culture and that striving to make it to a place, which, as I said before, is part of what Duncan is going through. But Duncan already, Duncan Park, the character that Billy plays so brilliantly,

49:15he had a company prior to this called Fafa, which was about bringing people together and they would be trading candles and canoes and stuff like that. And then he became a data merchant, a third-party type of data merchant. And I think that what we're showing in our, you know, it's a very different show. It's much more of a families interacting. The psychiatrist is the second lead of the show. but the idea that everybody back in the day was truly optimistic in a genuine way that they were going to be bringing people together they were going to lower the barriers in terms of tolerance and people communicating together and the idea that information is going to be something that's reliable and accessible and that all kind of went in the opposite direction for the most part for the most part Right.

50:15And, but they made a lot of money doing it. And so it was kind of like, wait, are we, we're sort of tearing at society in a lot of ways here. And communication has been completely bifurcated and people don't seem to be any more tolerant, let alone all the other things that they talked about. But we're making so much money doing it. And maybe this is what people want, you know. And so that sort of cynicism and that, I think it just imbued a different chapter in the Silicon Valley story. And hopefully there's a chapter coming up. I don't know when, but hopefully there will be one where they realize that the power that they have is also the power to do good.

51:03But also, I love the characters he's created. It is the culture. You're examining the culture that lives inside Silicon Valley now. And I love that dynamic of the whole project.

51:14Caroline Hyde:I feel lucky to be part of this project, honestly. Gentlemen, we appreciate having you here on Bloomberg Tech. And I think I'm right in saying it's already been renewed for a second season as well. The Audacity premieres April 12th on AMC. Jonathan Glatzer, Billy Magnussen, thank you for coming by. NASA's Artemis II is set to pass at the closest distance that humors have come to the lunar surface in 50 years. 7 p.m. New York time tonight as the crew does its flyby of the moon. Let's bring in Bloomberg's Lauren Grush, just back from first Florida, then Houston. Big moment, 7 p.m. What do we need to know?

51:47There are quite a few big moments today. Actually, one thing that will start before even 7 p.m. is around 2 p.m. Eastern, the crew will actually break the distance record previously set by Apollo 13 of the farthest any humans have traveled from Earth. So that will kind of be a nice little lead into the flyby. And then, yeah, today is the day what the Artemis 2 mission is all about. It's getting close to the moon and being able to see the far side of the moon, parts of the far side that humans have never seen before. So it's a really exciting day.

52:21Caroline Hyde:And it's been so exciting to watch this minute by minute, tick by tick, as this journey continues. Lauren, you've got some fascinating reporting on what's working well out there and also what's not working well. Right. So actually, I've been blown away by how smooth this mission has gone. Obviously, there's little glitches here and there that they'll be reporting to mission control. But overall, it seems to be a relatively smooth mission. One thing that we have all noticed is that the biggest headache might be the onboard toilet. So it kind of started acting up that first day of flight. They were able to fix it by helping to prime the pump.

52:58But then on the next day or a few days after, they had an issue with maybe some ice blockage from the vent line. They dump the contents overboard periodically. And there was kind of some blockage there. But they seem to get it working again. So it's just been a nice comedic moment. You know, if the only issue is your toilet, obviously it's probably not something the astronauts want to be malfunctioning. But at least that's the only thing that seems to be a real problem.

53:30Caroline Hyde:Laura Grosh, it's been some beautiful writing, some incredible reporting throughout the weekend. And we so appreciate you joining us ahead of today's really important day of space. Ed, that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech back together again. Yeah, strong start to the week. A lot to recap. Check out the podcast. You know exactly where to find it on the Bloomberg Terminal, as well as online on Apple, Spotify and on iHeart from New York and from San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Tech.

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