7 Eye-Opening Skin Facts (and Myths) Only a Cell Biologist Can Tell You

0:00The following podcast is a Dear Media production.

0:08Welcome to Breaking Beauty, the podcast all about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty. We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins.

0:21Hello and welcome to Breaking Beauty Podcast. I'm your co-host, Carlene Higgins, and I'm here with my work wife for life, Jill Dunn. Hey, Carlene, and hey to everyone at home. If you're familiar with our show, if you've been listening for the last 400 plus episodes, we are two longtime magazine beauty editors turned beauty podcasters. And we're in your feeds every single Wednesday sharing the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty. So whether that's celebrities like Trey Salus Ross or Haley Bieber or very influential dermatologists like Dr. Shereen Idris, a makeup artist like Makeup by Mario.

0:56we are always here chatting with the thought leaders in beauty today. Yes, and we also have product review episodes every single month. They're called Our Damn Goods. So don't forget to tune in. And if you're watching on YouTube, give us a thumbs up, comment and share. This week, we've partnered with OneSkin, one of the leading skin health longevity brands founded by four female scientists to talk about what we're really seeing as the next wave in skincare, cell care. And that's C-E-L-L care, everybody, not cell like as in S-E-L-L, cell care. And definitely we're seeing this shift in the industry.

1:33They're really focusing on aging cells. How can we get them to sort of act like younger versions of themselves, keep them in order, less chaos amongst the cells, which is going to make our skin as healthy as possible. and it's a topic that can feel very overwhelming and really scientific and very dense. But that's why we brought on a true expert today to chat us through this movement. We're going to be uncovering some of the eye-opening skin truths that only a cell biologist can share. We're thrilled to welcome Dr. Alessandra Zonari today. Alessandra holds degrees in biology and stem cell biology, plus a doctorate in skin regeneration and tissue engineering with 20 plus published papers and three patents to her name.

2:21And Dr. Zanari joined OneSkin as a founding member in 2017. And Dr. Zanari is the chief scientific officer, really the mastermind behind the OS1 peptide that OneSkin is known for. So just ahead, we're going to discover the seven skin truths that you can only really hear from someone who understands what's happening inside the cell and how cells talk to each other and even sometimes sabotage one another. And we're going to learn all about the latest research on skin barrier health, the differences between exosomes and peptides. I always need a refresher on that, guys. sugar surprising role in aging, the buzz around DNA repair enzymes, which common ingredients could be quietly working against you, and how much of age really is within our control versus written in our genes.

3:11Plus, Alessandra explains how the collagen in our skin is akin to gluten in bread. I've never heard that before. As always, you can find everything we discuss at breakingbeautypodcast.com and to learn more and take advantage of our listener offer, head to oneskin.co slash breaking beauty. Welcome, Alessandra. Thank you so much, Jill and Carleen. I'm so excited for this conversation. So first of all, Alessandra, we need to sort of really let everybody know how big of a deal you are, because I understand that you created a machine learning tool called Mole Clock, M-O-L clock that can read the skin's DNA.

3:53And frankly, it sounds like a science fiction movie. So what can it detect about our skin that even, you know, a very thorough analysis from a dermatologist might not be able to? So we have this wonderful imaging machines, usually in dermatologist clinics, that are super powerful to look at your skin from the surface level. They can surface the sunspots, the pore size, the amount of wrinkles that you have, but they are not telling the true story of what's happening inside the skin. Is this skin behaving and acting as a younger skin, as an older skin? So this kind of information was missing so far in the research on skin aging.

4:38So what we did in the beginning, the early days of one skin, we developed an algorithm that can read the DNA of the skin. And the DNA of the skin can tell a lot of stories because we have some chemicals on top of our DNA that change with aging. And that tells like, oh, which genes should switch on and off. And reading that, you can predict, oh, this skin is behaving like a 30-year-old skin. This one is behaving like a 40. And you can correlate that with the chronological age of the person. That tool is extremely powerful for us because for the first time since we were looking for novel molecules, we could analyze the effect of this molecule deep inside of how the skin is behaving.

5:26And that's completely a non-biased read of what changes inside the skin when you give a certain molecule or a certain product. So it was a real, a big, powerful tool that we developed. unfortunately is not consumer friendly. We need like a biopsy of your skin to remove your DNA, but it's a very like powerful research tool that we use on the development of our platform, our novel molecule and our products. That's incredible because I know that like the Vizia imaging system, it's not even that old and that going into dermatologist's office has been such an eye opener. And I remember going to an event where they were telling my true age based on all of these markers on my skin.

6:17So pigmentation and lines from that technology. So this is really like the next generation, which is going beyond those visible markers to what is actually happening in your skin cells. And I think that honestly could be just a metaphor for everything we're talking about today and the direction of skincare. It's, yeah, it's really something. So tell us how much of skin aging is within our control and how much is written in your genes? I love this question because it's very empowering and was something that was a breakthrough for myself when I started this research on skin aging. But all the research around age is leading that only 10 to 25 percent of the way we age is determined by our genetics.

7:07Really? Yes. 75 to 90 percent is our habits. It's what we consistently do on a day to day that impacts our skin aging, our overall health and overall how we are aging. So we have way more control on the way we age than we think so. So that story of like, oh, I have bad genes from my parents. My skin is not good. There's nothing I can do. That's not correct. Yeah. So we're seeing this really interesting thing happen online where a lot of Gen Z in particular, they're seeking out the UV rating for the day, but not in the way that beauty editors would, which is like, it's got to be like zero for me to go outside.

7:56But they're looking for like, if it's high UV, I'm going to go out, I'm going to get a tan. There's just a resurgence of tanning and looking tan and somewhere along the - Even tanning beds. Yeah, tanning beds. And I think we often leave out the word radiation when we talk about UV, It's UV radiation damage. So under a microscope, as a cell biologist, what is sun exposure doing to our skin cells? I mean, when we expose our cells, our skin to this UV radiation, it creates damage on our DNA. And what your skin does, first thing, first response is produce more melanin to try to protect from the damage that UV is causing.

8:38And if you're constantly being exposed to high UV, that DNA damage will change the cell function and that cell will become damaged. And this can either go to increase your chances of having a cancerous skin cancer or a lot of these cells stop dividing and form more of the senescent cells, zombie cells. So instead of being a good, healthy cell, happy, now is a cell that's secreting more inflammation, unhappy, and this can lead to collagen breakdown and acceleration of the aging process. So excess of UV on your skin and excess of exposure on UV unprotected will lead you to accumulate more damage inside of your skin.

9:30And this will lead to your skin have the appearance of older skin faster. So that short term penning that you're getting, that you're being happy, that your skin is more like with a tone that's more glowing, it can come with a long effect of like you having more susceptibility of skin cancer and also aging your skin faster. I think often, you know, when we're young, we're not thinking ahead and we don't see those damaging results right away. I mean, maybe you're going to get a sunburn, but then it turns into a tan. So that's not so bad. But what we understand as beauty editors is you start to see pigmentation later in life, maybe in your 40s.

10:15And they say that that is an accumulation that started when you were a child. So I'm curious how that works with skin cells where it's just sort of laying dormant and then later pops out. Yeah, it's because you're causing some damage. And when you're young, your skin, it's better on protecting from this damage and recovering those cells. But then with time, you accumulate more damage over and over. A lot of the cells, then now they stop dividing because they have damage and they become senescence. They become zombies. And with time, the more the accumulation of the zombie cells start accelerating the aging process.

10:59So it starts to show more dysfunction on the melanin production. So you start having more hyperpigmentation. You have more collagen breakdown. And this is this accumulation of damage that you're collecting over time. And I think like in the 70s, the 80s, there was a big trend of tanning as well. And these people today regret so much. And now seeing that type of trend coming back is like we're not learning with the science and evolution. So I'm Brazilian. I love being outside. I will not be hypocritical here. I grew up. I love the outdoors. But you need to protect your skin from this excess of damage.

11:41You can enjoy the sun without damaging your skin, using more protection. And if you want the extra tan, like there are self-tanners that does miracles. So like your skin looks beautiful and you don't damage your skin. I want to ask you about red light devices sort of swinging the other way, right? The body ones can look like a tanning bed, but they're really not. And, you know, I think the thing I have trouble myself using the red light devices because you are not getting that instant payoff. It almost feels like the new hope in a jar. It's like hope in a light bulb or something because you're supposedly use it over a long period of time.

12:25And it is going to be beneficial. Seeing is believing, right? Like normally you'd be like, oh, I see a result. I'm going to keep using it. Exactly. And it is an investment. So I'm curious from your point of view, what you think about these red light devices. Worth it? Not? What are they doing to your cells? Yeah. The skin biology is something that takes time. Like everything like to you to rebuild collagen, to you to rebuild the skin barrier. Nothing like that. Nothing that is going deep into the function of the skin happens overnight. Everything like take time. So we need to shift our mindset of like some things we are doing for our health for the long term.

13:04They are not like immediate payoffs because the biology of our body takes time to like be adjusting and to be having this new way of behaving, this new environment. So that's something that if we don't understand that things take time and become consistent, we will lose having benefits of a lot of technologies. And red light is one of them because the science there, like different from UV, the infrared light, the red light is very safe for your cells, your cells, does not cause the damage, the DNA damage that UV causes, and is absorbed by our mitochondria. Mitochondria is a part of our cells that produce energy.

13:51So if you're able to make the mitochondria produce more energy, you're letting your cells be more energetic, like be able to produce more collagen, healthier. And red light can do that to your skin, but it's also like a little bit of energy every day that will build with time to be now my skin is producing more collagen it's more radiant it's more firm so the the science behind red light is very legit it's a true but as you said it needs consistency you will not see anything like overnight and the problem is like a lot of times people give up and they don't don't really experience the benefits of something like that.

14:37Go on Facebook marketplace, see how many red light therapy prices are for resale. Because people are like, get all excited. And then they're like, I don't know if it did anything. And then they're like, okay, I'm reselling it. Yeah. I would always recommend don't buy just like, oh, because it looks cool, whatever. Go to their website and check if there is clinical studies, if there's real research behind that machine. Otherwise, you may be buying something that actually is not doing anything because the weight relates to shorter. It's not being absorbed. Yeah. Well, I always find it fascinating that red light therapy devices, many of them, you can get like FSA or HSA approval on those, which is like a medical device you can write off on your insurance.

15:23Right. So I was like that, I think, is pretty telling with how effective they are. And they're in that class. The at home ones. Yes. Oh, wow. Yeah, like when you go on dermstore.com, it's a bit of an aside, but they have a whole section that's like, is it called HSA? And FSA approved. Yes. Where you can buy it and then you like write it off through your insurance. Really? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, that's a great. So do you use it? Alessandra, do you use one? So I'll be very honest. No, I don't use it. Not because I don't believe on it. Yeah. But it's because I'm a very practical person and I like short skin routines.

15:59Yeah. So I'm still keeping very simple, but it's something that potentially I will consider introducing. Got it. But I need to, yeah. You're a minimalist. I respect that. And I will only start when I commit myself that I will do daily. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense. Got it. Got it. And speaking of investments, apparently there's a trend that a lot of women in their 30s are doing called collagen banking. and it's the idea that if you're going to lose 30 % of your collagen by the time you reach your 50s, I think this like in your 30s, it starts dropping off dramatically, right? You better quote unquote stock up on your prejuvenation treatments.

16:39So can our skin cells actually sort of hold on to or squirrel away collagen like that? I mean, I found this funny to call collagen banking because it's kind of like imagine if our skin could be an apart here like a whole bag. Let's protect this collagen here to only use when you are 55, 65 and start giving to you. So that idea, I mean, that's not what actually means. You cannot be stocking collagen inside your skin and being used later on. What's happening, why we are reducing collagen with aging, it's two things. Our cells start to produce less collagen because they are accumulating damage and we start degrading collagen faster.

17:28So what we should be doing instead of collagen banking is like banking our healthy cells. So if you're able to keep the fibroblasts, the cells that produce collagen as healthier as possible for longer, they will be producing collagen more later on. So there are ways like of reducing inflammation, reducing damage. Damage is what causes, it's one of the first causes of the cells stop producing that much of collagen. So avoid the damage on your cells, avoid accumulation. We call this senescence, the zombie cells, the cells, the fibroblasts that are not healthy anymore and they're still there. So you want less of this and more of the healthy ones.

18:16So when we talk about collagen banking, for me is more, what can I do to support my skin so my skin is healthier for longer? So when I get longer, it's still capable, strong enough to produce collagen and not degrade so I can still have that firm skin later on in life. Well, this is exactly the topic we're talking about, cell care, taking care of your cells.

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23:43I think what some people don't realize is that when those zombie cells are created, those are replicated. Yeah. So it's not just that you've created these zombie cells. Those zombie cells, truly like the zombie movies, are going to replicate themselves and flood your system with defective cells. Right. So that's that's we're going to get into that just in just a second. On OneSkin's Instagram page, it says collagen in your skin is like gluten and bread. So explain that. I love that we put this out there because it's a great analogy, but it's not the first one that people associate with. But gluten is a protein.

24:24And a lot of people don't even know that gluten is a protein. Collagen is also a protein. And what gluten does to the bread when we're making the dough and then you put in the oven, the gluten creates this scaffold, this network of proteins that allow the bread to be firm and fluffy and gives the whole structure for the bread. And similarly, on our skin, the collagen creates this network of protein chains that allows you to feel like the firmness, the bounce, and the elasticity of the skin. So that's the analogy. Yeah, give me that bread skin. sourdough barrier. I want fluffy brioche bread. If you overcook a bread, it will become stiff, right?

25:17Because if you overcook a bread, you create cross link on the gluten. And a similar process happens on skin aging, where collagen starts to cross link and become more stiff. And with more stiffness, you start seeing your skin with more crepeness and more sagging. So it's a similar at the molecular level of like what is proteins and what they're doing is a similar mechanism that's happening in the bread that can have that bread that's very bouncy and fluffy versus a bread that's stiff. The similar mechanisms biologically is happening on your skin and collagen as well. So, okay. Fascinating. And let's talk about collagen creams.

26:02Since we're here, let's talk about them. And a lot of people, you know, have believed that applying collagen topically can build collagen in their skin. Now, as beauty editors, we've been told forever that that's not really applicable because the collagen molecule is too big, can't penetrate. But really, I feel like if you can clear that up, because I think that there's a whole other mechanism for it, right? Yeah. No, I mean, the number one, if you have collagen on a topical application, you are so right. They're too big of a molecule that cannot penetrate your skin and just be there as a collagen.

26:39Oh, I have new collagen here. It's not what happens. It's the same when a lot of times you ingest collagen. That collagen is not specifically going there and replacing another collagen and creating the collagen banking. That's not happening on a top coat cream or when you're ingesting. What can be possible is if you have collagen peptides, smaller portions of collagen, they can interact with fibroblasts and activate some collagen production. So if you have collagen peptides, even when you are ingesting, they can go to your skin and they can stimulate collagen production. Again, that idea that the collagen will go down there and replace and create more collagen, it's not that directly.

27:27It's the fact that you can stimulate your cells to produce collagen again. I guess what's confusing, what I think is confusing to the consumer is that, you know, so I always look at collagen creams and I just kind of bend them immediately because I assume that it's a gimmick. So what should people look for on the label when they are trying to, I'm not going to say collagen bank, but, you know, birth their collagen or look after their collagen in the best way possible? You know, is it exosomes? Is it is it the word protein? Is it you know, there's all of these peptides. So maybe you can just help us like what is the most effective in building that collagen?