7+ Ways to Elevate Your Everyday: “Scentscaping,” a Gwyneth-Approved Lip Balm and the Fragrance Trend to Skip with Curator-to-Know Cynthia Sakai

0:00Cynthia Sakai:The following podcast is a Dear Media production.

0:08Welcome to Breaking Beauty, the podcast all about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty. We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins.

0:21Hi, everyone, and welcome back to Breaking Beauty podcast. I'm one of your co-hosts, Jill Dunn, and I'm here alongside Carlene Higgins. Hello. If you're not familiar, we're two former beauty editors turned beauty podcasters talking about the breakthrough people, products, and moments every single Wednesday. And this year, I've actually added entrepreneur to my personal resume with Cassatt Beauty, my skincare line, which is why I'm so excited today to speak to a fellow beauty entrepreneur who actually came from the fashion world, building the kind of consciously made, highly curated, and design-savvy brand that I can only aspire to.

0:59Joining us is Cynthia Sakai. She is the founder of Evolve Together. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Cynthia is the founder of Evolve Together. And before she was transforming our daily essentials, she was a jewelry savant, I would say. And at just 18, she launched the celeb-loved accessories brand Girl Buy by Coco. She went on to open one of the first multi-brand showrooms in Los Angeles, launched the modern jewelry line Vita Fede. Am I saying that right? You are. Okay. And in 2014, she was inducted into the CFDA or the Council of Fashion Designers of America. So congrats on that.

1:36Then Cynthia had a pivot during the pandemic. That's when Evolve Together really took flight. And Cynthia turned her meticulous eye for design toward things we use every day, really elevating them from utilitarian to ritual, I would say. And I really remember the first launch, these really chic masks. And I remember seeing them on celebrities all the time because it had the Evolve Together logo. It was very distinct. Yes. And we are talking about medical masks, not sheet masks. Yeah, that's right. Right. OK. And Cynthia, it's really the quiet luxury of personal care. That's what I would say about Evolve Together.

2:14There was a headline in Business of fashion recently asking if Evolve Together is the new ASAP. So immediately I'm interested. So today we're going to talk about the secret sauce behind Evolve Together's luxury scents, how she found the noses to make the deodorant smell like a fine fragrance. And we're going to talk about her skincare collaboration with one of Breaking Beauty's favorite facialists, Joanna Check, who was recently on our show. I used the enzyme cleanser last night and truly chef's kiss. and we're also going to be talking to Cynthia all about design, her aesthetic, intentional details in your own space, sound, scent, all of these things.

2:55And it's really for personal care, but also home care, I would say. So really excited that you're joining us today. Thank you so much. Wow, that was a really unbelievable introduction. So thank you so much. Of course. Absolutely. I want to tell you, first of all, that my middle name is Cynthia. We have something in common. I don't really hear a lot of Cynthia's anymore. more. I know. It's so true. So that's how you know we're probably... Gen X. Yeah. I just gave it away. I was going to say something like that. One of my first introductions to you was the face masks. But actually, the thing that really caught my eye in the beginning was the dissolvable hand soaps.

3:33So these were little round discs that were in a dissolvable paper sachet. And again, if you look at the packaging of Evolve Together, it's like, it's cream colored. It's very minimalist, modern kind of thing. So again, it was like this utilitarian idea. I was sending my kids to school with these little sachets to use in the bathroom. And literally my kids were like, there's never any soap in the bathroom. So I loved this concept. And when I was researching for our chat with you, they're not around anymore. So what happened? Well, I love that product too. I think for us, we've always said, how do we create better daily essentials for people?

4:13And how do we actually create something that's useful? And at the time, like everyone else, I couldn't find anything to wash my hands. And you really didn't want to go and touch other people's soaps. And you were like, OK, how do we do that? So all of our products are made with clean ingredients. So one of the tricky things about that soap was really the life shelf of that soap was like six months. OK. Because it had moisture in it. And then the bag also was biodegradable. So it fully dissolved. So we moved that into like a powder format. And then now we have reformed it to another format, which will be coming out.

4:50And we're actually talking to some hospitality groups because, you know, we they they did, you know, there's so much waste in the hospitality. That's brilliant. OK, so we already got a scoop in the first five minutes. This is great. Right. Cynthia, we were reading your bio. We had no idea that evolved together. It really wasn't your first venture like we talked about. So tell us more about Girl Boy by Coco. This is an accessories brand. Tastemakers were obsessed with it. Tell us everything. I was 18. I actually left high school and graduated when I was 15 and moved out of my house when I was 15.

5:27What? And so I really didn't know. I just thought my parents were both very entrepreneurial. My My father was an architect and my mom was a merchandiser. She literally patented everything under the sun, like the pooper scooper. She patented the pooper scooper in the US. So when I had this idea, I just figured that that's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to design and you're supposed to hustle and grind and build a company. And at the time, there was no tampon cases. So I was the first brand that created tampon cases. Wow. It was fitting. I was 18. I didn't want to go into the bathroom with tampons.

6:03Right. And a lot of these beauty brands and like beauty stores ended up picking up our tampon cases. What did it look like? It was it was it was like a fold out, almost like a book. And then it would fit exactly the size of a tampon. Put three in and you put three in and then we would do these really amazing fabrics. So I would go to downtown. I would go and pick out these fabrics. I would then drive to Mexico to have them sewn. And then I would go back and I would sell it to like Planet Blue or Kitsons or Fred Siegel. And at the time you were still getting cashier's checks or company checks. And so I would get a COD and then I would create more and I would go down to Mexico.

6:44And that's how I started. Wow. That's incredible, especially at such a young age. And I know that wasn't your last venture either in 2000. Well, first you started a multi-brand showroom in downtown LA's Cooper building, which I want to shop there already. What was in there? There was everything in there. You know, when we first started that multi-line showroom, there was nobody in that building. Everybody was at this building called the New Mart. And that was sort of like where everything was at. And then the Cooper building was empty. It was kind of old, a little rundown. And I was like, OK, well, the rent is less.

7:22I was 19, 20 at the time. I was like, I can't afford the new Mart. So why don't we make the Cooper building really cool? So then we were one of the first brands. So there was Farmer's Denim. There was Hammett. There was Nation LTD. And like we just started to create this vibe. Yeah. And we became one of the showrooms there. And then you started your next jewelry line, Vida Fede. This was handcrafted in Italy, I understand, and was sold at Bergdorf Goodman, adored by celebrities. Like this is already next level. And then in 2014, inducted into the CFDA, the Council of Fashion Designers of America.

8:02So by every measure, you've got a success story going on. What propelled you to then kind of stop everything and decide I'm going to start something new again? Yeah. I mean, I think there's. When you say that, I look at myself and I'm like, I don't know if I've done enough. But during the pandemic, I was living in New York City. And like everyone else, we were just going about our business. And we had actually gotten a term sheet to get capital into Vita Fede. And of course, the pandemic hit, poof, it was gone like everybody else. And my entire team was with me. And we said, OK, how do we actually just help?

8:44Like, we don't know where the world is going, but let's help. And so we became one of the first people to procure masks for New York City, like the blue masks. And at that time, it was really scary being Asian because if you had a mask on, you were targeted. And being a part of the CFDA, I was getting a lot of like silk masks and denim masks and sparkly masks. And I was like, okay, this is not really helping our consumers. And so we knew of a PPE factory prior to the pandemic. And I called and I said, hey, we would like to do this project. We know we have the consumers. We have the design team.

9:20I want to do, you know, exclusive colors. I wanted to be matte. I wanted to feel like an accessory. I wanted to be medical grade. I wanted to have loose ear. It looks like the whole thing to make the mask experience better and not feeling like the pandemic. And so I called her. And of course, thank God it was a woman president, which is doesn't really happen in Asia. And she said, well, we'll definitely do it for you. But the minimum is a million units of each. Wow. And I'm like, OK, well, I'm going to have black and white evolved together masks, two million of them sitting in my loft in New York City after the pandemic.

10:02And I was like, OK, that's really scary. But it ended up being OK. We really wanted to help people. And that's how we came up with the name. How do we evolve together as people? We put coordinates on every product, symbolizing that we're all connected, no matter race, gender, where we live. And how do we actually show up for the consumers? So we ended up selling 50 million units of that mask. And so, yeah, it paid off. It paid off. Wow. I always go back to the product first. Like product is king. You make the best of it. And then you figure out how to market the best product. versus creating a great marketing product.

10:41And now you're just left with disappointing product. Yeah, I completely, completely agree with you. And I guess that's why when I first received the next product iteration from your brand, it was the hand cream. Was it this hand cream at the time? The hydrating hand cream? It was. It would have been this one. And I remember trying it because my expectations were, it's not that they were low, but I just, because my experience so far had been the dissolvable soap, the masks. And then I was like, oh, it's just, it's, it's in a, it's hand cream in a cute tube. And then I put it on and I was like, first of all, the scent, the fine fragrance scent, I was like, this is like Le Lebo level.

11:21And then I was like the actual moisture. It's kind of like giving me like a wrap effect on my hands. And again, we were washing our hands so much. It was truly appreciated. Maybe you could now tell us some of your secrets. Like, did you work? Was there a Frenchman involved in this journey? There was a Frenchman involved. But I think for us, exactly what you said. I was always like, OK, if we go and I think a lot of people thought because we had masks, then we were going to something else because we were pivoting and masks weren't selling. But we had always really designed the company to be a daily essentials company.

11:58Like I always loved Muji. I really love the idea of creating for humans. So for us, from the very beginning, I like knew it wasn't going to be. But then I also knew that like if you sell 50 million dollars of anything. Yeah. You're a mask company. Yeah. That's it. You are a medical mask company during a pandemic. Yeah. And so when I went to labs and when I went to scent evaluators, I was like, we need to like make this the best product so that people go, oh, wait. Like they're not a mask company making hand cream. So we thought about everything, even that cap. Yes. We created it custom because I hate those little tiny caps that you spill like cream all over your bag.

12:39It smells so good. And so we really looked at every single experience, the formula, the fragrance, the packaging, the boxes are made out of sugarcane waste and bamboo waste because we've planted 300 ,000 trees with our customers. Like we really went like each detail, make it perfect. Yeah. What gives it that kind of like wrap quality. Is it urea? It's actually a combination of all, but I really wanted it to be like a blanket. Yeah. And it took us about 35 versions to get it into a blanket because a lot of hand creams are, it's like very sticky. It's very greasy. And then if it's hydrating, it's really thick.

13:22And I was like, no, I actually want a easy to apply hand cream that absorbs into the skin and that doesn't leave a film. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Love it. And so what's the scent then? So we have four different scents. One of the things I realized really saying that we wanted to create clean ingredient formulas is that when I went to the CMs, a lot of them were like, oh, what do you want? And I was like, wait, what's a CM? Oh, a contract manufacturer. And I was like, do you have, you know, what do you have for scents? And they're like, well, if you do clean, you should do coconut, you should do lavender, you could do eucalyptus.

14:02And I was like, I don't really want to smell like a coconut. Yeah. I want to actually smell like my own fragrance or I can layer it. So I realized that most personal care brands were really creating and then just pulling something off the shelf and then just fusing it together. So we actually work like a fine fragrance house. So we create our own fragrances and then we create our own formulas And then each formulation is custom because every fragrance level changes. It might show up differently. So we really take the time to be a fragrance and formula company. So is there a nose who creates for other fine fragrances in the world?

14:42There are. We've kind of had blends. But my favorite person that we work with and she's part of our team is our scent evaluator, Andrea. She has been in the industry for forever. and she's so, so talented. And I just trusted her so much. And we ended up meeting because I said, OK, if I'm going to get into the personal care space, I want to really understand the nuances. So I actually asked somebody to get me a fragrance teacher. Yes. And so she became my fragrance teacher. And we started doing classes together during the pandemic. And then she was like, gosh, I think we could really work together on a business level.

15:22And that's how she became our scent evaluator. Yeah, that's so great. I love the idea of like fully immersing yourself, you know, rather than just trusting somebody else as well. I think that that's a true collaboration. You've had some like, again, it's this, I like how you think kind of outside of the box, like you also had, for lack of a better word, biodegradable Ziploc bags. I know that's probably a trademark name. I don't know how else to describe it. sandwich bag. I don't know. But you had those and they're dissolvable. They were dissolvable. You don't carry those anymore. Biodegradable.

15:56And then you also, you did do a dissolvable packaging on a Goop collab, right? So what is the biggest design challenge you've had? And how did you overcome that? I think when I think about product development, I'm always obsessed with the white space. And I'm like, okay, it doesn't have to be this like one of a kind idea. It's really what are people using? What are they not getting? out of whether it's jewelry. You know, we were the first people to make brass jewelry that look like fine jewelry. And, you know, I've always had the eye of that white space. And so when we started making the masks, we knew that we couldn't to be a mask that actually worked.

16:38Yeah. We couldn't be completely polypropylene free. And so we said, OK, if we're going to do that for the health of our community. How can we reduce plastic everywhere else? So we created mask packages and paper. We created one-off packagings and biodegradable materials that nobody's ever used. And then I started putting like, I don't know, my snacks and knots and stuff. And I was like, oh, this is kind of awesome. Like there's only Ziploc bags out there. So that's how we ended up with the biodegradable Ziploc. Yeah. Yeah. So cool. We've created some really interesting products and we've had some people knock off some products.

17:18And I think for us, I've always said, OK, like you do it, you do it right. But you really want to be the first in the market to do it, because if not, you're third in the market, fourth in the market. You're just not getting the love for what you've created. Right. So I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you don't buy dupes. I do not buy dupes. I don't buy dupes. I think I have been trained in the fashion world for a really long time. And when you come from fashion, you just have this sort of, I'm going to do it because no one else has done it before. And there's a lot of pride because it's a lot of craft.

17:55It's a lot of design. It's a lot of this feeling of what's in your head. I'm going to really create something that nobody has done before. And there's a pride in that. And so for me, I would, I just, I like cringe. Yeah. So I do a dupe. Yeah. But yeah. But I don't cringe when people dupe us. Oh, interesting. Why? Because I feel like at that, if somebody's duping us and we're doing the right thing and we're already on to the next. Yeah. And so if we continue to do better, we're like 10 steps ahead anyways. Yeah. So, you know, yeah. Medicaid is one of our show partners this week. Medicaid is a clinically proven British skincare brand known for age-defying results.

18:41All of their formulations are dermatologists recommended. They undergo clinical testing and have amazing before and afters. I've talked many times before about how I love the liquid peptide serum from Medicaid. I also really like a lot of their retinol products. I like that you can kind of ladder up the intensity and find one that's suitable for your skin type. So I really like a lot of their formulations. And their latest innovation, you've likely heard about PDRN. It originated in Korean clinics with injectable treatments, and it's often derived from SAMHIT DNA. So Medicaid's latest innovation is inspired by advanced technologies, once exclusive to those clinical settings.

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20:07So that's strengthening the skin barrier and promoting more healthy, radiant-looking skin. If you'd like to learn more, visit medicaid.us, that's M-E-D-I-K and the number 8.us, or the new medicaid.ca to discover more. Use code BREAKING20 to save 20 % send off your first order. We'll link to this offer in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show.

20:31Cynthia Sakai:Hi, I'm Mary Alice Haney. And I'm Dr. Thais Ali Abadi. Dr. A, as she is known, is a world-renowned OB-GYN. And together, we're launching a new podcast, SheMD, to empower women to become their own health advocate. We're providing women with the knowledge and tools to really own their own health. With celebrity guests and today's leading experts, we're dropping episodes every Tuesday. So listen and subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode.

21:11There was a recent article, Evolve Together was named in the Business of Fashion piece called What Will Be the Next Aesop. And so Evolve Together was named as a challenger brand. This market has gotten quite jam-packed in terms of these like hotel level hand soaps and accessories. What do you think sets Evolve Together apart? So I actually think that it's not jam-packed. Yeah? Okay. I actually think from like a heritage brand that's personal care and home, there's Diptyque, there's Aesop there is La Labo but besides that there's not much where you're like okay what's beautiful what can I gift I think like Santa Maria Novella that's like Santa Maria that's another one but these are like European lines people don't necessarily know exactly is in the arena now sure it's not heritage yeah the other one I really like was named in that article Sangre de Fruta is like a beautiful okay beautiful range as well and I'm thinking of just like the salt and stones of the world, really?

22:17There's a lot of, I think, the salt and stones in the world. And I think for me, I always create for if I was the consumer and when I love interior design and I'm like, OK, what would I put in my home for my entire family? And when I thought about those beautiful brands, I looked at it. I was like, OK, they're still in virgin plastic in our home. There's no plastic in our home, not only from like a responsible to the planet, but I don't want microplastics on me. And so I couldn't find that. And then I couldn't find fragrances that were beautiful, but it was light. It wasn't like in talk, like it wasn't like nauseating to have so much.

22:53Yeah. And then I couldn't find something that was clean for my toddler. And I kind of went down. I was like, OK. And then I couldn't find a brand that I connected with on why I'm going to be their fan. I've always said like our history is starting during a pandemic and it's been how do we actually connect humanity. I have a question for you. It's been on my mind, but it's a little out of pocket to ask you probably, but I felt like pre-pandemic and we did a whole episode on zero waste beauty. That was the conversation, right? And then every brand became refillable. And I'm very passionate about that.

23:25And I feel like after the pandemic, it was just like all bets were off and the era of makeup wipes being demonized was over. Now everything is in a wipe. Wipes are back. like and then on top of that there's more wipes than ever like if you go to target for instance it's the towel club yeah it's a basically a dry paper towel for your face that you throw out basically i've just been struggling with like how do you even get people to care anymore it can be defeating at times do you have thoughts on that i do i look at it as we don't follow trends in that way. Like I know what is core to me and the brand and what's important to us.

24:05And so for me, it's less of, is it important to the customer? It's important to us. So when I think about being responsible to the planet, I always speak to our team and I say, if that person doesn't care and they throw something out of their car window, where is that going to end up? Because it's our job to make something that if it ends up, it actually doesn't say. So I think that's the way I look at it, even if that customer doesn't care about clean products for their entire family. I want that for our standards and to lift the standards up for our consumers and, you know, where we live here.

24:39And so I think for us, like, that's the way I look at it. I want better for consumers and I'm on the mission to do that. It's not really an idea of I just want to make it better because they want it better. Yeah. I think that also what you said before was very powerful when you said you want us to do the work for them, all of the work for them. And I kind of think that's where we're at now, where it's like probably people are less and less recycling and caring about all that. But if it's between this product and this product, and this product's done all the work for me, well, sure, maybe I'll spend the extra dollar to make that happen and ease my conscious.