Are You Shopping For Makeup The Right Way? Beauty School is in Session with Product Developer Pros, and TikTok Stars, “The Lipstick Lesbians” aka Alexis Androulakis and Dr. Christina Basias Androulakis

24:20It's great. You have more. You have a lot of a fundamental base knowledge compared to many, but black pigment absorbs product differently. So as you get into the darker shade ranges, you're getting more absorption. And also, if you think about certain white pigments, a lot of times people use titanium dioxide, pure, pure white in bases as well for opacity, meaning you want coverage. So the more full coverage of foundation, the harder it is to get that full coverage effect with the darker the pigment. Right. But we have, because it's the more you're using a little bit of that white pigment against that really dark, dark black.

24:57But that white is going to bring out all the gray and all the ashiness. But you need a little bit of white. It's just the right amount. Yeah. And then your level of black pigment is absorbing the maybe the oils in the base. Right. Yeah. More so than the lightest shade is getting absorbed. So it's going to be drier. It's going to affect the finish. It's going to affect the finish. It's going to affect how maybe how hydrating the formula feels, how heavy. Yeah. the formula feels on skin and perception. This is why Christine and I want people to be incredible evaluators. If you know how to look for these nuances and you know how to find what's going to work for you.

25:30Right. Not you're going to be, you know, just following the sea of trends on TikTok or wherever, wherever. Yeah. So that's and that's just one nuance because every remember, if we talk about the foundation category, there's skin tints, there's BBs, there's CCs. they're all in the same spirit and they have the same aura, but they certainly require a different developmental skill and a different breadth of shade ranges because of how flexible the formulas are. So interesting. It's never just one ingredient that is driving what's happening in your formula experience. There's a really kind of interesting conversation happening now, and I wanted to make sure I brought this up.

26:12Also, the SPF whisperer, Julio and I talk about this often, but they're calling it SPF doping. Have you guys heard of this at all? SPF doping, it's a big, yeah. It should have come up a lot more, I think. It will come up a lot more, but most importantly, like it's never just the UV filter that's giving you your SPF valuation on its own. You know, you need the boosters and you also may have film formers or polymers. So film formers, polymers, they're going to help hold the product onto your face. Yeah. Which that when you're in the clinical testing facility, the most important factor about sunscreen is that the product stays held on your face so it can actually protect you because if it falls off.

26:54Right. So it's never just and I bring this example up to really hit it home, but we're never using one ingredient that's going to do everything for us. Yeah. And at times, companies want to call out and this is a blanket industry statement for years. Companies are calling out maybe one romance ingredient, two, three. Now they're getting more playful. But it's it's always more than just what you're reading in the marketing that's driving the performance, whether it's a hydration claim and makeup, a long wearing claim and makeup or any claim really transfer resistance claim. Yeah. The sum of its parts, never the single unit.

27:31So that's a really important distinction. Yeah. For everybody. I feel like that's a marketing thing. And we talked about this years ago. Now it's popular. But the hidden gem in so many formulas was glycerin. Yes. And it was never being called out. Right. Because it would be so played out. Yeah. No one would want to hear about it anymore. This is the ingredient story. It's this hot one, this hot one, this hot one. And we're looking going, the second ingredient is glycerin. I'm pretty sure that's actually what's doing the magic here. But somebody said like how glycerin needed hyaluronic acids, publicist.

28:02Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. To actually get on the stage. You know? You're going to start to see, speaking of renaissance in regulatory, but also just you're starting to see brands now in terms of where the industry is going. Suppliers even. Suppliers are putting raw materials in color cosmetics for the first time that I've seen in my career at what we call efficacy level. So you're getting hydration claims at efficacy level from a blush. that you weren't getting before. And they're testing it to validate it, which means that the brands can also speak to this, make the claim. And that always wasn't the case.

28:44It was the glycerin. It's usually the glycerin, right? I'm using this just as a fun. Yeah, yeah. So I want to go back to what you said about SPF doping. Oh, thank you. I was about to come out of my mouth. What's the doping aspect? So the doping aspect is that there's a certain company out there that's claiming that their zinc oxide is like a superhero zinc oxide. They really want to own this zinc oxide. And you're going to see you've seen a lot of mineral-only sunscreens now launch, right? And now what are we seeing in the U.S.? Mineral-only sunscreens with a tint, right? I think we've seen three mega launches recently.

29:20And they're all beautiful. I'm excited for them. So this one company in particular is claiming that other brands in the SPF category are claiming 100 % mineral, but they're putting chemical style UV filters in or things that mimic a chemical UV filter. Right. And they're putting in boosters like we talked about earlier. Yeah. Into the formulation to ensure that they hit the SPF 30 claim. But the doping part is that they're not revealing the chemical filters inside the formula. And they're claiming the 100 percent mineral. But going back to and this is why I brought it up, because it's such a such an interesting, juicy topic.

29:59Yeah, for sure. I've talked about it with my regulatory friends and my chemist friends and my PD friends, and we all talk about it. Yeah. Because it's hilarious, again, to assume that your zinc oxide has such a superpower that you can just go and test it and you're not going to use anything. Like, take your zinc oxide, go test it without a film former. Yeah. Is it going to stay on? Right. It needs the boosters. It needs the other, you know, companion UV filters at times. This is a deepened meeting. Yeah. And I want to be very clear. I am not a chemist. Yeah. I surround myself with them. Yeah. And I learn from them and with them.

30:34And there's lots of amazing chemists on platform as well. Right. But the really important part to take away here for me is as for the consumers. Right. For everyone. Yeah. Is that there are it's the sum of its parts and the way that they validate the testing is a super interesting procedure. It's not just about it's really about you have to understand, like the minute your skin gets red on the SPF test, they stop. But if you put soothing ingredients into your formula, what do you think is going to happen on the SPF test? You think your skin might stay less red a little longer? And that is where we've seen the breakthroughs in innovation because a lot of chemists and formulators are forced to do things differently because of the laws and because we don't have all the uv filters that korea has so it's it is coming out to our benefit because it's sparking creativity and coming to new innovation in new ways with the soothing agents which i love like you've seen ectoin yeah kate somerville just did a really cool spf mineral with ectoin super goop tint yeah heroic because of the ectoin yeah i can stop now but this is a big time okay i was to ask what your favorite spf is real quick what's your favorite spf under makeup both of you yeah you have a elf one to be honest yeah yeah oh yeah the one the little tube it's like yellow on it it's nice and thin yeah i like it's thin it's you put on you know it's nice and yeah yeah yeah pants and pockets yeah absolutely i'm like i feel like that one needs to be like triple tested to see if it really reaches the max but that's my you know what suspicious sally over here okay carlene's always yeah the skeptic you're not wrong yeah you're not i mean listen it's really going back to the testing is really hard there's so many different skin types that receive the sun yeah yeah yeah i i always think also with when you're talking about zinc oxide everybody listening just think about diaper rash cream that is what zinc oxide it's paste so if all of a sudden it seems a little too good to be true that your 20 zinc oxide on your face is completely sheer yeah it's watery and it's like water oh my god it feels like k-beauty sunscreen and they're claiming 20 it's like no yeah it's something is something is off something yeah yeah they'll have that percentage right but they will they will bring in all these other elements to it that make it sensorial but yeah we've seen a couple pulled yeah yeah yeah yeah i loved that one.

33:05Sheer, sheer, sheer zinc. Okay. Yeah. Okay. That's without a tent. Yeah. I feel like what, if it doesn't have a tent to it, it's questionable. And that's why we're seeing so many tints in the U S yes. So like, are we mad at the rules? Yeah. If they birth the new age, like I can't wait to get my hands on the new notorium. Yeah. That seems like it's going to be gorgeous. Okay. Yeah. You know that.

33:38pausing to shout out one of today's show partners nyx professional makeup you guys i literally just got off a zoom call with nyx global brand president dene pearson and let me tell you you guys are going to love the episode we have coming up with her because she's spilling all of the secrets behind nyx's absolute industry domination not only how they're the brand behind so many TikTok viral beauty products right now, but how they make their formulas so hashtag damn good and so affordable. I mean, how many boxes can they tick? Artistry expertise, check. Accessible price points, check. Innovative professional grade formulas, check.

34:15And powerhouse partnerships in entertainment, check again. Let's talk about some of my personal favorites. There's the NYX Pro Fix It Stick Color Correcting Concealer in Green for when my redness is redding. I love that it's full coverage in a stick format so I can really target and neutralize without having a green cast where I don't need it. The NYX Fat Oil Lip Drip. It's got the Jumbo Doughfoot applicator I love. It's not sticky. It just gives me that luscious gloss. I like to wear it with lip liner. I mean, it's no wonder NYX Professional Makeup holds the spot as the number one gloss brand in the US today.

34:51So many hits from NYX and I can't wait to take you behind the scenes of how the beauty sausage gets made in a special bonus episode airing August 30th. In the meantime, come shop with our exclusive promo with NYX right now. It's a 30 % off discount at checkout with code beauty30 at NYXcosmetics.com. This code will expire on September 30th. So shop your NYX favorites for 30 % off today using our promo code beauty30. Some exclusions apply, cannot be stacked with other promotions. And don't forget to follow at NYX Cosmetics for more information on the brand and their latest offerings. And now back to the show.

35:32Jumping in to share a word from one of our show partners this week, Equilibria. You know you're officially an adult when the group chat starts popping off about gut health, tips and tricks, fiber goals, kimchi recipes, and more. But seriously, I feel like once you understand good gut health, it's a powerful tool to unlock so many positive daily health benefits, whether that's keeping your energy levels up, stress down or digestion healthy. And beyond dietary supplements, I also like to take a probiotic to keep gut flora in balance. And one probiotic must that I just got my hands on is from Equilibria.

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37:28I want to ask for the, you know, consumer geniuses, baby consumer geniuses out there. What do you make of reviews these days? What can you trust? What can you not trust? I don't know how much this falls into what you guys are all about, but you're insiders. What do you think? I think really early on, we established that when Alexis is going to be looking at a product and reviewing it online, it's really an evaluation. And it's really funny because we said we don't do product reviews, you do product evaluations. And I always used to see Alexis evaluate products throughout her whole career, you know, while I was in my career as well.

38:07And it was always really interesting for me because she can know upon her first impressions of a product how it's going to perform because she's evaluated so many on the manufacturing side. So I feel like from my perspective, a lot of what's happening on the Internet with these reviews are first impressions. But like how informed are these first impressions and are they going back to comparatively other products that they've evaluated before? because I know every time Alexis is doing it and definitely speak for yourself, too. She's always thinking about like a hundred other textures that she's felt before.

38:44And you have a really amazing sensory memory. I mean, that's what got us here in the first place, because like you're touching products two years before they launch. Yeah. So by the time they actually hit the shelves and you're touching it, you'll actually remember, oh, I touched that. Something similar. Yeah. You know, are you guys watching that show? Have you watched that show Drops of God? No, it's so good. It's about wine, but it's like these people who have like encyclopedic memories and they're basically like, I'm getting they're sniffing it and they're like, I'm getting that. You know, but it's like it's the leather sandals from the Romans in 1809.

39:18So I know it's from this area. You know what I mean? It's like that. There is an origin story. Like you can tell if you're a product developer, if you touch a powder. Yeah. Mostly, again, based on sensory memory. You can have an understanding because when you're evaluating, you're also evaluating against yourself on skin, but you're evaluating against 17 other things on your arm. So like when I often when we've done, we just did a milks comparison. Right. Yeah. Like the different milky toners, some that some that live in the land of lightweight moisturizer and some that are just pure toner. Yeah.

39:54Those evaluations have been happening behind the scenes. This is why it takes us time. So when we do our in-home content, it's one thing to do a comparison on your face live on camera and say, look, this is wearing this way and this is wearing this way because I used this on this side and this on the other. It's very different to have spent intimate time, done your little rating system, have our and and and live with the product in maybe some different climates, maybe different points of your cycle monthly. So nobody trains you to be a product developer. It's an inherent skill that you develop over time.

40:31And if you're lucky to have a mentor that's a rock star, they'll really turn you into an expert. And ultimately, it's about asking the right questions too. Always. And always, always having a hyper, hyper analytical eye. So the reviews that I see on the internet are people's experience of a product. Right. One, two, three, maybe five, ten times. you can like many things, but reviewing it is not going to be able to articulate whether or not the consumer genius is watching or wannabe consumer genius is watching can use it for themselves. Yeah. So we need to always give that information. It's a nonstop.

41:09What and how can you expect this to perform on dry skin, you know, oily skin, combo skin? And even that's not enough, but it's the best we got. Yeah. For a long time, you know, the understanding with insiders was like the best makeup in the world is made in Italy, possibly Germany. Is that still true? You talk about that a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Is that still true? I'm going to give you a pop quiz. What is Germany known for? Pencils. Yes. Yes. I was going to jump in. We'll make this a game show. Yeah. Yeah. So each, just like you walk into Sephora as brand connoisseurs and you have your favorite facets of what you buy from each brand, whether it's complexion from someone or I'm a Patrick Tablush girly because I like two in one, whatever that is.

42:03The product developers that have been doing this for five, 10 plus years, they have not just a region, but a specific branded manufacturer. right their favorite like a lot of times alexis is guessing the country of origin which is actually guessing the manufacturer right and not publicly calling them out which is not appropriate under any circumstance with those drops of god because you're picking up the foundation you're like yeah this is gonna be from france and i know that because and i'm just like sometimes yeah i'm wrong yeah and we have our fun you know we always and it's just it's fun it's part intuitive but it's also sensory memory.

42:39Because as a product developer, the reason that you know who's great for what, and I'll give you the rundown real quick. Yeah. After, like region-wise. The reason you know is because you go to about four shows a year minimum. Yeah. Not to mention how many times the manufacturers come to you when you're working on brand side. Or if you work in a manufacturer, you know, you still get exposed to tons of products. So you're seeing more product than anybody in the world. Yeah. Except for influencers, arguably. Yeah. Right. But they're seeing the finish good. They're seeing the finish good. But you're seeing it by region and that's fair.

43:09So you're saying so pencils from Germany. Pencils from Germany. What else? So Japan also does beautiful liquid liners. Yeah. Like flow through anything, whether it's brush tip, belt tip, Korea and Japan. Yeah. Yeah. So Japan, Japan is some of the most meticulous craftsmanship brushes. Yeah. Japan has the most meticulous craftsmanship. So Western Atelier's brushes made in Japan. Yeah. Ding, ding, ding. Winner. Phenomenal. Yeah, for sure. I'm loving this. Yes. Slurries. You will see Italy. You will see Canada. Primarily. So we're talking about eyeshadows? This could be, and this goes back to all the categories.

43:47Yeah. Any powder. Yeah, any powder. So powder can live in the land of, right. It can live in the land of complexion. It can live in the land of cheek. Technically, there's also lip powders too, but we won't confuse everybody. Okay. We are talking primarily, let's think about eyeshadow for our God's sake. Yeah. So is there for me, I do have personal favorites. Like I do have a preference and I tend to love an Italian eyeshadow slurry personally, but that doesn't mean the Canadian ones aren't very competitive. And Canada came out with like wet tech technology. Exactly. Like they were the first to innovate from what I understand.

44:20Yes, they have. And that's a manufacturer specific technology and they own that one specific manufacturer. Right. What's wet tech? It's a slightly different take on a slurry. OK. And now you're going to see next generation slurries that are going to involve like each country is going to put their signature into it as well. Right. But then there's, you know, I just saw What's Up Beauty had these crazy molds that they built these insane powders with that have more detail on them than I've ever seen before. And that's coming out of China. OK. So just to be clear, like you can have some wild cards.

44:54Yeah, yeah, yeah. You really can. I'm sure. But is wet tech like a wet to dry eyeshadow? Yes, you can do it. You can use it wet or dry. Okay. Exactly. I hear you. And again, manipulate the intensity of the texture as like one. And lastly, lipsticks. Lipsticks, USA, Italy, personal favorites for me. Like, but again, think about culturally, anyone from Asia is not going to love a U.S. lipstick because the Asian market has a preference towards, let's say, the soft stain, almost like soft stain, blur, different beauty kind of idea. Yeah. Yeah. Like these like wet glassy lip gloss. Yeah. Beauty. You want a high shine lip gloss that's more sheer than anything on the U.S.

45:38market. You can get 15 of them on YesStyle, you know, anything. K-Beauty cushions. Yeah. K-Beauty anything with rice, you know, rice brand extracted. Yeah. Yeah. K-Beauty texture leaders. What's next in K-Beauty? What's going to be the big thing? because TikTok is like suddenly discovering Korean beauty. Fine. What are they going to be all over next? I was like, I mean, I've got to, I think we're going to start to see what, what I'm calling like globalization, hybridization, which is the best of K-beauty be North Americanized. Yeah. It's funny. As we were talking earlier, I was thinking the same thing.

46:13It's, it's the globalization because like, I just used a beautiful essence this morning, which was Neil's yard out of the UK. And if I was blindfolded and I was looking at it, it would be K beauty. It's like bouncy. It's, you know, so that globalization is, they're duping it. They're duping it. Now one country I did not hear in this roundup was France. Oh, France. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to. Oh, that's okay. Don't be mad. Yeah. France, France just did, you know, Fenty's new hydrating concealer. Thin, beautiful, lovely texture, right? What are they known for? France is just to me, it's like the birthplace of beauty and a very like sophisticated lens.

46:55Yeah. You know, it's like for skincare, I think. And skincare. Yeah. But they still do. I think about Violette France, who's bringing the French girl beauty style lover to North America and doing it in a way that's still honoring kind of French heritage. Some of her stuff's made in the USA. But again, it's made in the spirit of France. Yeah. And I think they do do skincare well. They do do complexion well. Fragrance, obviously. Fragrance, obviously. And I was just about to say, there's going to be a lot of fragrance in those products. Yeah. That is the French. Yeah. That's right. Non-negotiable.

47:30Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's right. When they couldn't shower, when they were dancers at the opera at the side, the perfume was born. Yeah. OK. We have time for one more question. we're putting you on the hot seat let's have some fun trying to predict the future here so what makeup trends do you think we'll see specifically in 2025 if we can get specific like what product do you think is going to be on our top shelf i think we're going to see like sensoriality to the max and way less pigment and way more buildable sheer prettier like blushes that have more of a sheer veil to them instead of all these high pigment high gloss right i feel like we always hit an inflection point and i think it's going to be very much like everything that we've seen have these maxed out pigment loads we're going to start to see like the softer side of those maxed out pigment loads i think we're going to start to see skin tints in a pan oh like a new take on a gel cushion because now tear tear has brought cushions to north america about this yesterday yeah trust in radiance apparently trust in radiance yep worked on me.

48:38It is a like North American mindset of a cushion because it's high coverage. Exactly. Really easy to use. So like but I do see like skin tints in the pan. I do see way more skin like skincare infusion in these lip products like lip oil. Yeah. Like really skincare. Yeah. Like clinically tested. Clinically tested like we were talking about and like category by category. Right. Like, where do I see? Like, we're still going to be fire hot in the lip category. That doesn't go away. But like bullets aren't coming back anytime soon. Like the classic bullet style lipstick, I feel like is still. Yeah. We're still not quite there yet where we're going to fall back in love with it.

49:19I think we're going to have a deeper romance with these these interesting textures from Korea. Yeah. And these like I was just trying the Judy doll transfer proof. I shine. But it's more sheer than traditional. OK, that's actually. yeah it's a it's made in china but it's super interesting and like cool yeah so i think it's the mashup of the gold yeah we're still we're still obsessed with like textures and sensorial i feel like too i think we're also going to see cool packaging like we've seen some really amazing stuff with the manufacturers presented in packaging that's like super exciting that obviously we can't talk about but i think like if that stuff launches well it's like viral worthy but who's ready to launch it that's the big question i know yeah yeah carlene okay thank you so much to alexis and christina the lipstick lesbians for sharing all of your wisdom with us we are so thrilled to meet both of you and learn from you i learned so much and i know that our audience will really appreciate everything so thank you so much thank you so much thank you for having us thanks for listening you can find details on every product mentioned in today's episode along with our exclusive promo codes on our blog at breakingbeautypodcast.com while you're there be sure to sign up for our newsletter every episode will be delivered directly to your inbox so you won't miss a single thing and get social with us let us know what you think of the episode you can follow us on instagram at breaking beauty podcast and did you know we also have a private Facebook group.

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51:27Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.