Carlene Introduces Her New Skincare Brand, Cassatt Beauty, With “La Pommade” Retinoid Ointment – Inspired By a Beauty Editor Cult Fave

0:00The following podcast is a Dear Media Production.

0:07Welcome to Breaking Beauty, the podcast all about the breakthrough people, products, and moments in beauty. We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carleen Higgins.

0:20Welcome back to Breaking Beauty podcast, everyone. It's another great Wednesday and I'm here in Carleen's living room. This is Jill speaking, by the way. How are you, Carleen? I'm great. I'm excited and funny. I'm a little nervous today. I'm on the hot seat. Yeah, you are. Well, first of all, we are two beauty editors turned beauty podcasters, and we've been doing our show for eight years now. I believe the very first test from we ever did was actually in your basement here in your house. Oh my gosh. So this is like a full circle moment. And today is a very exciting day because we're going to be talking about something that's hashtag damn good.

0:54Yes. And it's straight from your brain, your brain and your creative input. And I'm proud of you. And this is amazing. Thank you so much. So we're not going to keep people in the dark too long. But Carlene is today introducing her very own beauty brand, which I just have to say massive congratulations. It's a huge undertaking. I've had bits and pieces of the behind the scenes. So you should be really proud that you're bringing this to life because it is really hard to do. Yes. And it's been a labor of love, I would say. And I'm excited that everyone gets to hear about it today. So Cassatt Beauty, tell me about that.

1:36What is, how did you land on the name? Because I know there was like naming. Yes. Kind of drums. It's a hard thing to do is to find a name that doesn't exist. So tell us about that. Well, Cassatt Beauty is really what it is to start there is it's a modern, cool skincare line for women over 40. And, you know, designed, created and imagined by a beauty editor of over 20 years. And so it's really editing the best of everything I've ever learned, all of the products that I consider to be the icons, building on those to edit down the very best skincare for women, people, frankly, in my age group, for my peers.

2:22I really wanted to create something for people like me because I think all my career I've been kind of trying to service everybody. And I was like, I want to do something really authentic that is for my peeps, that I understand. It's for you. It's for me. It's for our friends. So that's what it's all about. So Cassatt Beauty, the name, it's classical. It's a classic reinvented is really the whole branding of it and where that name comes from. Right. Right. And there is an artist. This is not a direct correlation, but Mary Cassatt. And she painted women in their environment, in their home, in what is now considered their place of labor.

3:05And so it was all about the female gaze. And I just love that because as you get older and you get to this mature phase, it's about wanting to support our peers. and being more collaborative versus competitive. And it's a great place to be. And I feel like Cassette really embodies that and seeing the beauty in others and in ourselves. So the niche that you are serving, because when we first talked about this on the mic, you just felt like Gen X ladies were not being spoken to or catered to at all. Talk about that in SPO and like how that's kind of like, you had this idea, I believe, in early 2024.

3:49And from when you had the idea to now where we are with the whole movement, because I think we are seeing people paying attention to Gen X. Absolutely. I think there's a lot more in the makeup space, in my opinion, that has started to cater to this group and less in the skincare space. You know, it's people who are either makeup artists themselves, like Gucci Westman, Bobby Brown, even Sarah Creel coming from makeup development at Estee Lauder. So I still really feel like there is a space to have these cool, modern aesthetics for the realm of skincare for women of this age group. So I still feel strongly that this is a new niche that's being addressed.

4:40Right. Do you have a tagline? Yeah. See the beauty is the tagline. And it's all about seeing the beauty in others and our peers, but also in ourselves. I think it's so important at this age as somebody myself having gone through, actually, I'm still in the process of going through perimenopause. Right. And I've been hit with every kind of cliche in the book. In the past few years, I have the menno belly. I have the rosacea, which is from inflammation, you know, the joint pain, all of the things that we're all going to be hit with at one point or another. So, yeah. So see the beauty and oh sorry let me finish my thought I got lost sorry um and so brain fog and brain exactly and so what happens when you're in that place is that it's really easy and I'm speaking for myself to look in the mirror and feel like you're not yourself like I feel like I have aged 10 years in the past two years in terms of my appearance and that's really hard on the self-esteem very hard.

5:48And of course, you're inundated with all of these images if you're on social media and in Hollywood and everything where it really does do a number on your self-esteem. So that's why the tagline is see the beauty, because we have to remember, consciously remind ourselves to see the beauty in ourselves. And I'll look back now, you know, five years ago, even when I was feeling self-conscious and I'm like, God, I wish I looked like that now. Right. Like, look, oh, look at my figure. Look at my face. If I had seen the beauty in myself at that time, you have to stop and be like, no, there's something really beautiful when I look in the mirror.

6:34And obviously a lot of that is inside. And I think that's the other thing that I really wanted to convey with this brand and hit on with the community is that I also feel like when we get to this age, we're a role. We're a mom. We're a boss lady. We're an old lady. We're a caretaker. We're the sandwich generation. We are all of these things, but we're actually just regular people. And we know it as peers with each other, right? It's like, I respect you. I see you. I know what you're about. You're a friend and with my friends, too. And it's like, that's what nobody really sees. It's a cliche. Like when you see, you know, even ads to this day, it's like they're I feel like people are kind of dressed up like they're going to work or you know what I mean?

7:22It's like we're just people. And when I see my friends now that I've grown up with for 30 years, I still see that young. You see the beauty. Yeah. I still see that young chick that we used to go to after hours on Saturday night and dancing. And like, that's who I see when we get together. But nobody else sees that. So that's what this brand is about from an emotional level and how I want to connect.

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9:35Now back to the show. Hi, I'm Pia Barangini, the creative director of LPA, an entrepreneur, a wife, and a dog mom based in Los Angeles. This is my new podcast, Everything is the Best, where we basically ask interesting people, how did you go from zero to yacht? I'm always curious how the hell people became successful, and I figured you would be too. Get on the internet with me. Let's laugh, let's cry, let's overshare, and let's get inspired to live our best lives. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. It's all for you, baby. Thanks for listening. Love you, mean it.

10:15I think it's very obvious when you talk about it, how passionate you are. Yeah. And how you had said, I think when we first talked about it on the mic that your friends had said to you, this is just in you, like it has to come out. What is it that like compelled you? Because we know, and you've written a sub stack about it. Yeah. Does the world need another beauty brand? Yeah. Why does this need to be? I would say there's two reasons. One reason is that, as you said, this was just in me. And when we started the podcast, which was eight years ago, I actually started a website at that time. It was called Beholder.

10:45And it was for women over 40, because at that time I had just left the fashion magazine I was at and we really targeted women 24 to 35. And everybody was targeted. I was there for 13 years, but was that where would I go next? And I started looking at publications that were for sort of my age group. And I was like, I don't relate to this at all. Yeah. It's like recipes like I don't cook. You know what I mean? It was like, yeah, it was, you know, it was good housekeeping. It was what more magazine, you know, that kind of thing. And it was no shade. But yeah, no, no shade. But like, I don't relate to I don't want to be defined by my age.

11:29I just want to be seen and reflected and and have articles relate to me. So that's when I started my site and I started writing about real people and real things, moms, but maybe they were going through certain issues, whether it was their marriage or like weekend drugs or whatever it was. And I think that was very new, but I couldn't really launch that at the time. First of all, our podcast took off. And second of all, to try to fund the SEO that would have been required to make an editorial site fly was just not feasible. but it was still in me. And so now having spent eight years interviewing founders, testing a bazillion products, all of this, I really understand now the power of community and storytelling through products and a brand.

12:21And I think that's really where we're at now. And that's why there are so many brands. And I think that's okay. Like I acknowledge the fact that we don't need more products in the world. We had that covered at least a decade ago. But people now, in my opinion, use beauty products the way that we shop for fashion and build our wardrobe. It's multiple brands. It's enjoying the experience of interacting with that brand in addition to functionality. And the self-care of it all. And the self-care and the ritual of it all. And that's okay. Yeah. You know? I think so. So we've got the inspiration behind the name.

13:07Let's talk about the Hero product. So I knew when I was going to create one product for Cassatt, especially targeting who we're targeting, that it had to be a retinoid, really. because there are so many fly-by-night ingredients that you and I have seen and tested. But we both know as beauty editors that the ingredient that has the most amount of consistent clinical results behind it is retinol. So I knew I had to launch with that. But I have had trouble with retinoids in the past because I have extremely sensitive skin. I didn't always have extremely sensitive skin. But when I hit perimenopause, what happens in your body is that you build up so much inflammation.

13:57Remember, I've talked about this on the mic a couple of years ago. I couldn't use anything. And what I realized is, OK, this is weird to be in this place because this is the time when I need products that are going to address sagging, dark marks, texture, pores, lines, and yet I can't use it. That seems ridiculous. So what I sought out to solve was to try to quell inflammation to nourish skin and comfort it at the same time that the retinoid is working. So the hero product is La Pomade, a retinoid skin ointment. So it's in an aluminum tube everybody in this very beautiful pale blue with a black cap on it and it's it feels like you've had it in your bathroom forever but not I don't know how to describe it it's like good thing yeah it's iconic but fresh yes so this is this is sort of the comp it's empty it's a nice clean version this is my well-loved been to Italy so if you want to feel it Jill yeah you can you can open it up.

15:08You only need a pea size amount. So the full name, everybody, is the La Pomade Retinoid Skin Ointment. So it's in a tube akin to like a Walida skin food idea or some French pharmacy finds that maybe we have tried or you have had in the past. So was that an inspiration at all? I mean, it's called La Pomade. So it definitely is inspired by French pharmacy, this particular product. And that's because when I was looking at the world of retinoids and how, what would be new, what would be different? I thought back to a retinoid ointment that was OTC originally. And I was like, how can I build on this concept in a way where it's not going to destroy my skin barrier?

15:55And that's what I really sought out to do. So even though it feels like like petrolatum when you put it on. It's actually what I'm calling a bio ointment. So it is petrolatum free. And instead of using... So it's not Vaseline adjacent. That's right. Yeah. So there's no petroleum in it, but I did want to create that feeling so that when you put it on, it's quite occlusive and you get a little bit of a slugging feel to it because that's what creates the efficacy because you're using a mild retinoid. This is actually a retinal acetate. And what makes it so effective though, is I'm going to call it a demi-occlusive barrier because it's not as occlusive as a petroleum.

16:43It's a little bit more breathable than that, which is actually nice because it's not as poor clogging. It's considered a non-comedogenic antigenic formula, which was pretty hard to create. Yeah. I was thinking of you, Jill, when I sent the brief to the chemist, I was like, don't know shea butter. Yeah. Don't even go there. Do not come back to me with shea butter. Because guess what? People in their 40s still break out. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, Jill's going to get me. So instead, I'm calling it a bio ointment. Okay. And the bio ointment consists of various botanicals and oils and waxes that instead have this anti-inflammaging effect.

17:23Right. Right. And so we've got arnica, calendula, which I've often told you is one of my favorite ingredients, rice bran wax, castor oil. And those ingredients create what I would call a demi-occlusive base. Right. So petrolatum being very occlusive, that creates kind of like a saran wrap on your skin. That's like that slugging idea. What's great about that is it enhances penetration of anything underneath. Yeah. And it's holding the water in, holding the moisture in. That's right. And so this one is kind of like medium to occlusive. So it is more breathable, but it's still giving you a bit of that slugging effect.

18:05So that's what's making it where you're not losing that water, trans epidermal water loss that we talked about that happens at night while you sleep because you have that demi-occlusive barrier. Right. So as a result, there's so much less dryness with this formula. I used it all winter long and I didn't have any flaking, stinging, that sort of thing. So it really is a modern day like barrier supporting formula. even though it's a retinoid as well. That's great. Yeah. And let's talk a bit about retinol because we all know that it has been around for so long, but it does cause so much confusion.

18:46So as far as I know, it's like retinols are like families, right? There's like the hero, which is like tretinoin, which is from your doctor. Yes. If you can go there, go there. Right. But a lot of people can't because it's strong and whatever. That's right. So, and then there's retinol, A-L. Yep. Which provides better efficacy with not as much irritation. And then there's retinol, O-L. That's right. And that's often what you will see in drugstore products. That's right. Right? Yep. And yours is the category of retinol esters. Retinol esters, yes. And so in that famous French pharmacy find, they use retinol palmitate.

19:26That's correct. and yours is using retinol acetate and that's R-E-T-I-N-Y-L. So tell me how you landed on that and why. Yeah. So again, because we have this inclusive barrier and it creates that environment where it's with the penetration of the retinol, you don't need a strong retinol. And also my skin would not be able to handle it. That's like a hundred proof alcohol. So I really wanted something very gentle that was in this retinal esters family. Long story short, that one would be clean at Sephora if ever I wanted to go that route. So there's not a lot of communications with this brand around the idea of clean beauty because we've talked about how that doesn't mean that much these days.

20:16But I just felt that for people who are concerned about it, I wanted it to be clean at Sephora. So that's why we're using retinal acetate. Yours feels, I guess, more like a balm, I would say, versus the OG French pharmacy one, which feels like you're putting on something you got from your dermatologist. Yeah, exactly. It's a little bit more elegant, I would say. And more people who like to use balms in the winter, if you're a face oil girly, I think you're going to love this because it's really the best of both worlds. If you're a person who doesn't like any of those types of products, listen, it may not be for you.

20:59And I get that. And if you have a retinol you're happy with, great, stick with it. And that's the whole point of it. Retinol is a little bit like sunscreen. you have to find the one that you use to be consistent to get that low and slow build up where your skin starts to you get the payoff and you get that tolerance it's all about building a tolerance and that's why I created this product is really for me and for people like me who just have not been able to do that traditionally so what results have you seen personally and like what I know you're like testing it right now and everything. And by the way, everybody, you can go to Cassattbeauty.com, which we'll link to in the show notes where you can pre-order.

21:44That's right. When this episode comes out, because I know people will be excited to support you and try it out. So personally, I've noticed that there's just so much less dry out than I would normally get with other retinols. But also there's kind of like more of a juiciness and a glow from consistently using this product that's kind of again just like helping to keep my skin's natural moisture inside but in addition to that my chemist who's really cool because last winter when I was using it I was like I still it's not giving me flakes or anything but I want it to be just like a little bit more moisturizing which is which is a challenge it's a waterless formula there's no water in it at all.

22:33So everything is active in some way, shape or form. There's no ingredient that's in there for marketing purposes, which is nice to know when you're buying it. There's no water as the first ingredient, for example. And I said, I want it to be a little bit moisturizing, something like a hyaluronic acid. We need something like that in there, but it's an, it's a occlusive formula where it's not a water-based formula. So I was like, I don't know is there a way to do that and she actually came up with a way where we're using a hyaluronic acid in oil so it actually is it's not just keeping your moisture in it's actually moisturizing at the same time which is very unique like it's very rare that you would find a hyaluronic acid in an oil formula so this is actually it would be the sodium hyaluronic that's right so i find that my skin is more, it's more plump.

23:28It's more glowy. It doesn't get that kind of that dry, like shriveled out look that you can start to get before your skin gets better with typical retinoids. And I would say the appearance of fine lines, like my crow's feet, for example, somebody actually said to me the other day, oh, but you don't have crow's feet. And I was like, yeah, I do. So when I really looked at it though, I was like, yeah, I do think that they are less noticeable for sure. So how are you using it in your routine? Yeah. So what I've done with the box actually is tried to do my job as a beauty editor as well, which is educating and providing clarity.

24:08And that's because that's one of the issues I have with the beauty industry is like sometimes things are just so confusing. Personally, I don't like it when retinoid is hidden in products like a moisturizer or a face wash or are products where you wouldn't necessarily expect it. And there's some weird name on the product like age advance. And it's like, what is that? So I tried to make it as clear as possible. It says right here, it's a retinoid skin ointment. So you know, when you're using it, this is your retinoid time. So you can use it as part of your cycle. So on the box for instructions, I have one side that's for gentle use and the other side that's for full strength.

24:51So it very clearly tells you here to use on dry skin if you want to use it in a gentle way. If you want it more full strength, you can use it on slightly damp skin. That's going to help with the absorption. So it could be right after your hydrating serum or right after you've washed your face. And this is nighttime, obviously. Yeah, definitely use it at night. And then for gentle, it's one to three times a week. Okay. So I use it three times a week. If you want to use it full strength, you can use it nightly every single night. So if you follow the general rule that we've talked about so many times on our show, which is you want to be using the lightest products in your routine with the thinnest consistency to the thickest, right?

25:36Then this being an ointment, very clearly, this is at the very end of your routine. So you're going to put it on top of your serum, on top of your moisturizer. If you want to do the moisture sandwich for gentle, you can use it on top of moisturizer. So that's like a bit of a buffer. If you want to use it on full strength, you're going to use it on clean, bare skin or over a serum and then use sunscreen in the morning for both sides, whether it's gentle or full strength. So I really tried to make it as clear as possible to help people to be able to build retinoid into their routine without having the ugly experience of having irritation.

26:17Yeah. How many iterations did it take you to get here? So this is version 11. Okay. Lucky number 11. And actually it's funny because my sub stack's called the 11s and I didn't, that's just a coincidence, but this is version 11. And for it's for, you can buy it in North America. Yeah. So it is available in North America. The price is 74 US and$98 in Canada. It's available at CassattBeauty.com. Let's spell that for everyone. Yeah, sure. It's C-A-S-S-A-T-T. So C-A-S-S-A-T-T, Beauty.com. Great. And so it's just direct or consumer right now. That's right. So you did like a whole photo shoot and everything with this line, which I know is what you love to do is creative direct.

27:01From me as your friend, knowing you, I can tell that that's the part you probably enjoyed the most. Yeah, it's really funny because that is the part that I enjoyed the most. And that part was what was done first. Like that's been wrapped for months. Like that I could do with my eyes closed. So I loved creating the branding for Cassatt Beauty, the mood boards, the vibe of it. And, you know, the photo shoot as well. We worked with Rita Leifaber. She is a stylist and a creative director who I used to work with at Flair many years ago. And the photographer was Kayla Raka. And they're just a power duo.

27:41And Rita has a wonderful site called Edite that connects people like you and I to stylists. They can help you build your wardrobe. And they just have the most beautiful, lovely aesthetic and vibe. And I cast friends of mine, real people who I just really respect and admire. So Zaki, you'll see on the campaign, she is a singer and our kids are friends. Oh, fun. And so that's how we met. And she is wonderful. I'm so inspired by her. And she has this beautiful skin color and she's got a gap in her teeth and she is so creative. And she's a makeup artist as well. She does hair. She's a singer. She's like a multi-talent.

28:24so I worked with her I worked with my friend Robin who is also an artist she does woven pieces for the home and I worked also with Marissa who is a store owner she owns the narwhal in Toronto which is my favorite store to shop at and we have a mutual friend my friend Anna who's an artist came and did the prop styling her name's Anna Church and she is building a whole community around artists and showcasing their work. It's called Curate and Cultivate. And she is the first profile on our website because I want to profile and highlight, again, just people who I admire, who we have this thing in common where we're just in the same place.