Hailey Bieber’s Facialist Biba De Sousa On Debunking Breakout Triggers, Oil Cleanser Truths and Is Your Skincare Clogging Your Pores?

0:00The following podcast is a dear media production.

0:07Welcome to Breaking Beauty, the podcast all about the breakthrough people, products, and moments in beauty. We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins.

0:20Hello and welcome back to Breaking Beauty podcast. We are your hosts, Carlene and Jill, two beauty editors turned beauty podcasters, delivering the breakthrough people, products, and moments in beauty every single Wednesday. That's right. Like we have been for seven years. And you know what? Sometimes we even drop a very special episode on a Friday, which we are doing in two days from now. So be sure to watch your feeds. On November 1st, we are coming in hot with an amazing skincare episode featuring the founder of Allies of Skin. And I found out about this brand First Carlene via Who Else? by Caroline higher ends.

0:55I've been obsessed with it ever since. And we have a very, very special epic promo code in that episode. So please set your alarm, set your reminders. Do not forget to look in your feeds on Friday for an extra special bonus episode. That's right. Some weekend listening headed your way. And today we are welcoming celebrity esthetician Biba D'Souza, known for her ability to transform problem skin with a clientele that includes Haley Bieber. Hello. Yeah. Billie Eilish, Rosie Huntington-Whiteley, and many more. Miley Cyrus, I do believe. And I remember when Haley was on our show, she talked about at least one of Bieber's products being her favorites.

1:35And I was like, okay, need to know more immediately. And Bieber has her own line of skincare that targets everything from acne to aging. And she contributed to the creation of Merit products. She has a special interest in independent research and empirical information gathering, eschewing skincare trends in favor of scientific results-based skin treatments, all of which make her the perfect guest today to debunk some popular skincare ideas we see floating around on social media. It's about time. Why do I love debunking topics so much? It's so fun because I think it is just rampant out there. And someone like Biba, she's developing products.

2:14She's often in the treatment room giving celebrities treatments, but she may not be a voice on social media. So we're so grateful we have her for this hour. This woman is a problem skin expert, so I can't wait to hear from her. And, you know, Beba really does love to educate through her practice, on her blog, which we will link to in our show notes and on our website under episode recaps, along with every product mentioned in today's episode. So just ahead, we're going to be sitting down with Beba live in Los Angeles, where her clinic is based. to debunk some myths with her, everything from what really causes acne, what doesn't, her takes on peels at home, her take on slugging.

2:53People are still doing it in 2024, going into 2025. I think we're on like the fourth version of slugging at this point. Double cleansing, microneedling, all these topics that you just need an expert to weigh in on. So here she is, Biba D'Souza.

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3:54And follow the podcast at TheBaddestRadio on all social media. Except for X. Because who the hell uses X? Like.

4:11Biba, welcome to Breaking Beauty Podcast. So today we're chatting about debunking some of the skincare myths being perpetuated out there on social media. And I understand that you have some things you want to like get off your chest. So why is it an important topic for you? Well, it's important because we are experiencing a skincare boom. In 2000s, like late 1990s, we experienced the spa boom. And now we're experiencing a skincare boom. So there are literally thousands of skincare lines. There's so many products. There's so much noise out there. It's just really important to whoever is listening to us that they hear from somebody who's actually doing it.

5:00Who's done it and was successful at like doing it. And just kind of to hear the honest review, right? Because I don't know. I am agnostic. I don't know what I don't know. We will talk about some stuff. And, you know, there are things that I don't know. But nobody knows. It's not that I don't know. That there's no answer. So we have to kind of keep looking for answers. I'm guessing for you that pore clogging ingredients are a, you know, important, a big deal to you because you have on your website a pore clogger checker, which is very unique and very helpful. Everyone needs to check it out. Yes.

5:41So tell us what that is. Yes. So I had the privilege to study with Dr. James E. Fulton back in the day. He now is long gone. He is one of the co-developers of Retin-A with Dr. Albert Klingman. So he is the one and only person, believe it or not, in basically the world who was conducting comedogenicity studies. So that's where I awoke to the existence of pork logging ingredients. And that's luckily happened early into my career. So I kind of always held on to it. But then I realized it's not enough. The study ended when he stopped researching, right? So then I'm not going to reveal you my method, but I started to conduct my own studies.

6:33And then how I did my study is basically whenever I was creating my products, I dissected my product ingredients and done. You know, my chemists love me and hate me. Hate to see you comment as they say on TikTok. There she is. There she is. But then it feels good, like products get awarded. They said, oh, my God, you make me a cool mom because, you know, you're so-and-so's facialist and products that people are eventually happy. But the process of it is a little different. I don't possess lob equipment. Yes, got it. So it's a little conversations. Pork cloggers. The pork cloggers. So it is very shocking to me because, you know, I was for about 15 years.

7:20I was in my little room in Beverly Hills and like whoever was going to coming to me. I was just I had a nose into my work. I was so busy. I was so booked. I was just loving what I was doing, right? So then the pandemic started and then some of my clients decided to give me shout outs. And then that's when I decided, not decided, but that's when I started to really discover how nobody knows anything. How basically Rosie Huntington-Whitley, she's the one who first started to talk about pore cloggers because, you know, she had acne prone skin. And I was able to help her greatly with her struggle because she's a model.

8:08She cannot have breakouts, right? So we were persistent and then we were able to really kind of help it. So she's the one who basically brought this awareness to the media. Right. And then I decided like, okay, I need to make this little tool. So I made it a little tool. It was expensive. And then, you know, then I was my friend and client, Catherine Power of Merit and Versed. She recruited me to be on board of Merit. So we developed Merit, which is the first non-comedogenic makeup. And then I was like, this is really huge. The awareness of this must really be spread. Since we had lots of people checking in, we have tremendous traffic on our site.

8:51Yeah, well, it's a very unique, sorry to interrupt. But just to explain what the pore clogging checker is. So the idea is that you put in the ingredients that's in any product that you're using. So you'll kind of copy and paste it, let's say, from a website. And you put it in and then it tells you which ingredients are pore clogging. Is that how it works? It will say, unfortunately, you have pore cloggers and it will tell you what it is. And then you can make your educated choices. Okay. So it's like my clients live by it. But it's also a, it's also like a, how would you say? It's also partnership with clients because clients like email me and they said, I saw this and I have it in my product, but it's not on your plugger checker, but it has this name.

9:44And I was like, thank you. Like we have five names of that ingredient and this is the sixth. Like depending how they're labeled, because the labeling can be anything, you know. So like shea butter is often labeled as like perky. Yes. Oh, that's my nemesis. And so I'm always looking out for that. But yeah, they can have a lot of different names. Like it will be a four letter combination. So you kind of kind of, yeah. Yes. So then since I noticed certain companies have their own and I just wonder where do they get the information? Yeah. And what is the information? And then I just kind of ran like a little quick check.

10:21And I was like, okay, baby, you are pork logging. Like you're just, no, this is taken from somewhere, maybe from that book, you know. Yeah, yeah. So you're out here outing them with this app, this built-in app on your website. Or are you saying that other facialists are copying your pork logging checker? The companies, like there are a couple of companies, they have them. Oh, I see. Yeah, it's other people are ripping off her technology and her idea. Yeah. And a quick Google reveals who they are. Yeah. Interesting. I suppose so. But, you know, they're lacking information. Absolutely. It's not in depth.

10:53And like, I just I was just really wanting to sit down with them and say, oh, what's your process? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is like your life's work. Yeah. It's just like chat GPT. We've talked about it. It's only as good as the data that's fed into it. Right. So I think that's what you're saying is that you were putting in these, you know, really expert criteria to say whether it's truly poor clogging, or not. Yes. I want to ask you about some other common causes or triggers for acne that people might not be aware of because, you know, back in the day, we'd always say, oh, like pizza and refined sugars.

11:30But what are some of the more hidden ones that, you know, you've made your clients aware of? Pizza has a dual sword. Pizza is carbohydrate and dairy. So the high carb diet Right. Is going to, okay, so here, to distill it, right? Yeah. Acne, if somebody is eating things that are causing them acne, they are really kind of have to think about diabetes. Right. Because eventually the high sugar, high carb is affecting their insulin resistance. Right. So it's something to think about it. Some people will not have it and some people will have it. So if you're breaking out from something, probably you shouldn't be eating it, right?

12:17Yes. It's a kind of hard talk with people. I had a client who, I'll get back to the triggers, right? But I'll just tell you, I had a client who came in and had like really bad, like not bad acne, but inflamed acne and we handled it. And then she says, okay, warning, I ate cheese, have a cheese hangover. And she says, I cannot give cheese. I cannot give up cheese. And I said, well, you know, it's really up to you, but now at least you know if it's worth it or it's not worth it but now you know why are you breaking out some people are there is sensitive to dairy dairy is one of the triggers not because of just the hormones in the milk but then also the iodine iodine is a problem so the hidden iodides algin carrageenan they you will like thickening agents you will find them in you will find them in baked goods oh you'll find them in yogurt you will find And the oat milks, because they're thickeners, they're pointers, right?

13:16So like cracker, you'll say, oh, there's no, like, I don't know, it's gluten-free, it's seed, it's not like whatever. It's almond, but guess what? It has algene. So you have to watch for those. You kind of have to read what those are. I know it's exhausting. It's exhausting. When somebody is seeking causes of their acne, it's just, you know, it's really disheartening to me that like medical professionals are not on board. They're just dismissing everything, right? And when somebody comes in, oftentimes they will just give them spironolactone. And there's a specific combo. You'll get retinoid and spironolactone.

13:54And then if nothing works, it's Accutane, right? Yeah. But you're giving somebody spironolactone without asking for a hormone panel. Mm-hmm. Okay. I'm just kind of rolling my eyes. Like when somebody said, I'm on aspirin or lactone. And I said, did they do your hormonal panel? No. So then what are you treating? What are you suppressing? Wow. Yeah. The same with Accutane, you know, like I understand. I would say Accutane in many cases is warranted. And that's if that's necrotic acne when people are completely getting, going towards disfiguration, when their life is absolutely impossible. Right.

14:38you know, if cows absolutely cannot be found. But it's not panacea. You have to try other things before you resort to such a complicated drug. Yeah. I know when I was a teenager, I had like T-zone acne. I had a lot of whiteheads all in my T-zone. And here I am touching my chin like crazy. But I went on the pill when I was a teenager for that reason. But I read that you said in some instances that birth control pill can actually contribute to acne. Yes, the low dose. A low dose estrogen. Okay. Just one sentence. A low dose estrogen, birth control pills are known to contribute to acne. Okay. So that's something to be discussed with OBGYN.

15:25Yeah. I can't really say more than that, but it's a low estrogen. But it's something to be aware of. Yes, yes, yes. Because I think a lot of people just think as a blanket rule, your acne is going to help with acne. So So it's good to be aware of. If it's not low dose. Okay. What other kind of like supplements might be contributing to people's acne that they're not aware of? Biotin. Biotin stimulates the hair growth, which is keratin. Guess what else is keratin? All the little vellus hairs on my face that clog my pores. And the skin. Yeah. When you take biotin, you're stimulating the skin cell growth.

16:01So they will form at a faster rate. Okay. Which is good for people who are not acne prone, but people who are acne prone are going to break out like crazy. Okay. So no biotin.

16:19Pausing to shout out Hill House Home, they're one of our show partners this week. So of course, Hill House Home invented the viral nap dress. This has become famous because it has this very flattering and comfortable fit with their signature smocking. I wore my Ellie nap dress to the Sephora holiday party a couple of weeks ago just because I wanted to be comfortable. I knew I'd be indulging and eating a lot. And it's just that thing that you can put on, feel confident in, but you're never going to be uncomfortable, which is just such a win. And I'm in good company. Celebrities like Taylor Swift and Olivia Rodrigo have been spotted in Hill House Home.

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17:30And I feel like people sleep on all of the other offerings from Hill House Home. So I just wanted to shout that out. Plus they have robes and pajamas, which of course make great gifts if you're thinking ahead to the holidays already. And great news for Breaking Beauty listeners. You can get 15 % off your order of$100 or more at hillhousehome.com with code BEAUTY15. Again, that's code BEAUTY15 for 15 % off your order at hillhousehome.com. Again, that's code BEAUTY15 for 15 % off your order at hillhousehome.com. We'll link to this offer in our show notes and on our website. Grateful that Dermstore is supporting our show this week.

18:12Did you know that Dermstore.com was founded by a dermatologist 25 years ago to better serve patients with easier access to the professional grade skincare and treatments that their skin needed. And we sort of take this for granted now that we can get anything to our front door. But back then, it just really wasn't a thing you had to go out of your way to seek out the products that you wanted. So I love that the access is there. And since day one, they've always been about protecting and prioritizing your skin's health. And of course, now they even offer hair care and makeup and skincare gadgets.

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19:25It's really that one-stop shop for skincare lovers. And great news, Dermstore is giving Breaking Beauty listeners 15 % off select items with code Breaking Beauty. So go to dermstore.com slash Breaking Beauty and use code Breaking Beauty for 15 % off select items. Brand exclusions apply. Once again, go to dermstore.com slash Breaking Beauty and use code Breaking Beauty for 15 % off select items. Brand exclusions apply. We'll link to this offer in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show.

20:05if someone comes into you and they're they've changed their diet and all of a sudden their skin is clearer or better what have they done like is there some kind of not formula but if all of a sudden they're drinking kale smoothies do you notice a difference in the skin clarity or so you're basically asking if there's this food that actually helped i would say yes and no okay so we were we have to kind of adhere to anti-inflammatory diets yes because acne is or this inflammation. And then, you know, omega-3, 6, and 9, cessation of fatty acids, and they're present in nuts and fatty fish. The question is how much nuts and how much fish should you eat to actually get the dosage that would help the skin.

20:46But technically, yes. Yeah. You know, definitely lots of fiber. So that's where the greens come and colored, colored, bright colored, and deep-colored leafy vegetables and fruits. But supplements probably overrule the food. Yeah, yeah. I mean, clean liver, definitely. Like there is also, constipation is a big thing. You know, it's not always a pleasant subject. And people say, you know, I'm actually constipated. People don't know that it's not normal to be constipated. And the constipation can really wreak havoc on the skin because it has the gut-skin connection. so that's it yeah so that's that's your fiber that's your water this is where we're talking like when i talked to my clients and said like you know you have to pair your height and weight have certain amount of water because our bodies are enzymatic and we need to stimulate those enzymes and we need to get everything going we need to we sweat i forgot the equation there is the reason why we need eight glasses of water.

21:54It's because our kidneys, lungs, and skin will secrete about that much. Okay. Okay. So you need to replenish. They need to replenish. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting what you said about the constipation because I have, you know, a lot of times when I was a teenager, they would always say it's hormonal. Like I'd go to the doctor and I was like, what, how about my acne? And they're like, it's hormonal. And I'm like, what does that mean? What would I do about that? I'm going to ask you about that in a second. But also, I realize now how closely tied constipation is to a woman's or a young woman's menstrual cycle.

22:31Right before the period comes, it's like you get this often, a lot of people get this period of one week of constipation. And I think, especially as a young person, you are not aware that that's happening and can be contributing to the monthly acne going on. Could be, like, might as well. Might as well. Just worsen the things. It definitely will worsen how the person feels. Yeah. For sure. So the constipation is one. And then another hidden factor definitely is toothpaste. Yes. This is too far from you. Yeah. But like. I've had that before, though. Another culprit toothpaste that definitely made me break out.

23:10Yes. But I knew, I clocked it. Like I was like, I know that that's not good. Yes. You will see SLS. You will see coconut oil. You will see like it's. But now I notice there are lots of toothpaste that are actually acne safe. So that's also good. There are lots of good stuff that happens, right? Yeah. There is some awareness. I would like to know about slugging. What do you think of it? Well, slugging, that's something that's completely taken out of the context. So slugging is great. So say you live in Alaska and you had a day outside and you went burned and your skin is suffering. So what you're going to do, you're going to cover your face with Vaseline and go to sleep.

23:52And then maybe the night after and night after until the barrier repairs itself because it will repair. Barrier, skin barrier repairs between 12 to 16 hours. It will repair itself. So technically even one night should be fine. But in extreme conditions, say you need three nights. But not every night. And then not if you're like 20 and you live in Florida. Right. You know, it's taken out of context. Right, right, right. It's sort of a more of a treatment, a remedy versus a regular routine. A routine. No, it's not. It's definitely not a routine. It's really for impaired barrier in an extremely cold, wet weather.

24:33Right. Cold or windy weather. Or dry. Right. Yeah. I get that. I get that. What do you think about cleansing? What do people get wrong about cleansing? These days, there's so much wrong with cleansing. I'm sorry, this is like really upsetting because, you know, all of a sudden, if I ask you, how do you wash your face? Nobody knows how to wash their face. We're all insecure. Like, well, am I doing it right? Like you washed your face all your life and there was nothing wrong with you. And all of a sudden, nobody knows how to wash their face because these lunatics are telling them, Hey, put the oil on the face.

25:10Cleanse with oil. So here's my question. What else do you clean with oil? What else do I clean with oil? Do you clean your hands with oil? No. Do you clean your laundry with oil? No. Do you clean your hair with oil? No. It's not a freaking cleanser. Yeah. So it's not a smudger. So yes, the table, like you will get specific wood oil to polish your table. Not your skin. So no oil cleansing. Balm is not a cleanser. Like I don't know where people got this idea. Like I don't know. It's like this new company that came. Okay. So double cleanser. If your cleanser doesn't clean, then you need to replace it.