How-to Address Hair Thinning on a Budget, New Thinking Behind Hair Fallout and Why Drugstore Haircare is so #DamnGood with Scientist Dr. Jeni Thomas

18:43Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:That's exactly it. I mean, that's that's the image it creates. And so that that pore strand doesn't have anything to hold on to. So it loses its anchor to the scalp and it falls out too soon. Too many of them fall out. Right. And we realize we can basically tighten the hold that your scalp has on hair at the roots and keep it in place for as long as it should be there.

19:07Dr. Jeni Thomas:Okay. Yeah.

19:08Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:And the end result is having more hairs on your head at any one time.

19:12Dr. Jeni Thomas:Yeah.

19:13Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:Very cool.

19:14Dr. Jeni Thomas:I mean, when I, again, I go back to skincare, right? So we've learned this as beauty editors that free radicals, they impact your DNA. And so we need antioxidants to combat that. And what's always been drilled into my head from dermatologists is that vitamin C is the gold standard. So tell me why with your collection, because there is no vitamin C in here. Correct. What you've chosen to use instead and why it makes sense for the scalp.

19:45Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:Yes. So, yes, antioxidants are the way to go after oxidative stress. And not all antioxidants are created equally. So for this, what we have is a combination of three ingredients that creates this really powerful antioxidant package. We call it our provitamin complex with niacinamide. But peroctone olamine is the start here. And that's an ingredient that's known to work in the unique scalp environment where imagine it's warm, it's dark. There are a lot of oils that are present, more so that you're going to have on the rest of your body. So it still has really strong antioxidant activity there.

20:28Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:And then we put that with Pantene Signature Provitamin B5 or Panthenol, which also has some inherent antioxidant activity. And then with niacinamide, you all know, skin barrier, enhancing ingredient. And there was something very interesting that we found when we put these three together, the antioxidant activity of that trio seemed to just boost. And then this was something that we tested in the clinical studies to say it's really effective at reducing scalp oxidative stress, which then reduces shedding and increases the number of hairs that you have on your head. Yeah.

21:08Dr. Jeni Thomas:So there's a shampoo, a conditioner, and a serum. And I think a lot of people understand serums again from face care. So very similar concept. And it has that same feel to it where it's not like an oil. It's not a dropper, everyone, if you're listening. And it looks like a very, it's in a glass bottle as well. Yeah. Very premium. Yeah. Pantene, I will say. I do like that feel, though, I will say, because, you know, to use an oil, maybe some people like to do hair oiling, but it's definitely it's not going to help you use it every day. Right. Because you're you don't necessarily want to wash every day.

21:46Dr. Jeni Thomas:It might mess with your hairstyle. It's very specific. So I like that this one kind of gives you like an invisible film and it doesn't feel tacky or anything. That's what I noticed just trying it on my hand so far. I'm glad you noticed that.

21:59Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:It's a really important point. The scalp oxidative stress or free radicals, we're exposed to them daily. UV, again, scalp oil buildup, all of these things are happening daily. and so we needed something that can fit into a daily hair care routine without having to ask you to go to great lengths to change your routine yeah so of course we have shampoo and conditioner use those on your wash days and it has this clinically proven technology but the scalp serum is what enables you to get the antioxidants regardless of your wash frequency but to your point people are nervous about putting something oily or greasy on their scalp because they think well, I'm just going to have to wash sooner.

22:42Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:So I don't know. There's nervousness about it. So one, it had to be non-greasy, leave you with a refreshed feeling, not at all any kind of dirty feeling. So this formula is really, it's quick drying. It's non-greasy. It's for daily use. It takes maybe 30 seconds to apply it. You just want to spread it throughout your scalp. There's a nice It's a little tingling sensation with it too. It's like cooling a bit. Yes. Yeah. Which is a good signal to say you've gotten it right at your roots, not all caught up in your hair. And you've spread it evenly so it's across your scalp because this isn't about spot treatment.

23:24Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:It's about preventing the shedding from happening across your whole scalp.

23:29Dr. Jeni Thomas:Last night we saw Abby demo it for us. We got her on the mic to do that. and it was like she was almost using the dropper to separate her hair into sections like you could tell she had used it a lot because she had her own little method right the abbey young method of doing it and it was almost like five like a full dropper length could do like she has very long hair but she could do like a whole section like yes you have like a bob how much product

23:54Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:are you putting in same amount yeah because this is all about your scalp and roots it has nothing to do with the length.

24:02Dr. Jeni Thomas:So one full dropper does basically your whole head, correct? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Like it actually absorbs faster than most skincare serums I've ever tried. I'm sure that's by design. Yeah.

24:21Dr. Jeni Thomas:Today's episode is brought to you in part by Blissey. What kind of pillowcase are you guys using at home? Is it cotton? Is it satin? Let me tell you why I switched to silk. Well, I would wake up with those, you know, those creases, the pillow creases that you get when you're sleeping, the frizzy hair, all of that. And the thing about silk is that it's natural, it's cooling, and it's gentler on skin and hair than satin or any other fabrics you might be using. It helps to reduce frizz and breakage while you're sleeping for your hair. And it gives you healthier looking skin in weeks by reducing the look of fine lines, wrinkles, those sleep creases we talked about.

25:02Dr. Jeni Thomas:And it even helps to prevent breakouts. With Blissey, they use the highest quality of silk. It's 22 MOM or M-O-M-M-E. That's a 6A grade, 100 % pure mulberry silk. And the benefits of silk, like we said, naturally cooling, also breathable, hydrating and hypoallergenic. So that's going to help with skin conundrums as well. And with Blissey, the material has been dermatologist tested and recommended as well. Now, this is luxury, but also these pillowcases are fully machine washable, which I appreciate. You know, I'm lazy slash busy. I'm not going to be out there hand washing my pillowcases. And people are just loving Blissey.

25:47Dr. Jeni Thomas:Over 3 million have been sold. It's been featured in Vogue, Oprah Daily, Good Morning America. It's won a bunch of awards. And if you want to try it for yourself, because you're a listener, Blissey is offering 60 nights risk-free, plus an additional 30 % off when you shop at blissey.com slash breaking. That's B-L-I-S-S-Y.com slash breaking and use code breaking to get an additional 30 % off. Your skin and hair will thank you. Medicaid is one of our show partners this week. Medicaid is a clinically proven British skincare brand known for age defying results. I have so many of their products in my personal routine, everything from the liquid peptide serum to the crystal retinol.

26:28Dr. Jeni Thomas:Love both of those and All of Medicaid's products undergo clinical testing and have amazing before and after results, and everything is dermatologist recommended. And that's why I'm excited to share with you the latest secret from Medicaid. And this one is all about getting glass skin. And it's Medicaid's new niacinamide peptide serum, and it's powered by 10 % niacinamide. And this multi-active formula is clinically proven to deliver visibly clearer, smoother skin with poor reduction in seven days. Why I personally like the Medicaid niacinamide peptide serum is I find that it's overall, yes, it's brightening, but it also has zinc in there, which helps with reducing oil production.

27:09Dr. Jeni Thomas:And I really appreciate that any little acne scars or acne marks that I have, it's really brightening on those as well. So yes, it's gently exfoliating. Yes, it's brightening, but it also just makes my skin look so much clearer, which I really appreciate. So if you want to check it out for yourself, you can visit Medicaid.us, that's M-E-D-I-K and the number 8.us to discover more. Use code BREAKING20 to save 20 % off your order. Once again, that's Medicaid.us. Use code BREAKING20 to try out the niacinamide peptides serum. We'll link to this offer in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show.

27:54Dr. Jeni Thomas:Now, the other thing that was overheard was that the oils on your scalp oxidize as well. So what does that mean? Are our scalp oils becoming rancid or what is happening and is it harmful to our scalp?

28:11Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:So it's not a pleasant thought, but just like your oils, your cooking oils can turn or go rancid, so can your scalp oils. Yeah. So some people, especially people who have hyper oil production on their scalp, they'll talk about an odor, like an off odor, which is often they're a sign that their oils are oxidizing. But it just it can break down into more irritating components like causing reactive oxygen species and a whole chain of reactions that then lead to more stress on your oxidative stress. Right. Right.

28:49Dr. Jeni Thomas:So honestly, the other thing that I'm hearing through this conversation is, should we be washing our hair more often? Because again, I'm thinking about it like my face, you know, what a dermatologist would say about the pollution, the everyday micro pollution that your face is accumulating. and it's making me wonder that should we be washing our hair more often to remove that layer of oils and just and the micro pollution itself and there has been published

29:20Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:research to show that the more often that you wash your that you wash the better it is for your scalp

29:28Dr. Jeni Thomas:so I want to ask you though we talked about washing your hair more often if you can you know So whatever that means for you. But we often do notice all that hair in the drain. So is that mechanically we're pulling it out? Or could that be backfiring on us washing our hair more often? Or is that a myth?

29:49Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:This is a great question because it causes a lot of panic for people when they go in the shower. And maybe they're rinsing the conditioner and see hairs coming out into their hands. And so there's a belief among people that conditioner can lead to hair fall. And it's not so, it makes perfect sense why they would see that or believe that because that's when they're feeling a lot of hairs coming out of their head. Right. But in fact, what happens is as the hairs are being jumping out of the scalp or falling out of the scalp, some of them fall directly to the floor, but a lot of them just get caught up in the mass of hair that you have.

30:31Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:See, the more textured hair you order, the longer it is, the more spaces it has to get caught up. So it's only when you get that detangling effect of a conditioner are you releasing all of it from the mass of your hair, even if it left your scalp a day or two ago.

30:48Dr. Jeni Thomas:Oh, interesting. So that's why you tend to see the hairball in the drain, in your hands, when you're washing.

30:56Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:But it doesn't mean that washing is causing hair loss. It just means that's the detangling effect that's letting it fully release from your mass of hair.

31:05Dr. Jeni Thomas:Yeah. Okay. Yeah, got it. Now, what about what we should avoid in shampoos and conditioners? And again, this could be a myth. Are sulfates and silicones contributors?

31:17Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:No. At least from what our research would say, I do not believe that they're contributing. I'll tell you a few studies. This one goes back to 1992, where there was the belief that silicones could be clogging your hair follicle and interfering with the growth cycle and causing more hair to fall. And there was a clinical study done over 48 weeks, so nearly a year, to follow people who use silicone-containing products. And this was in the ages of really large silicone particles that if anything's going to clog a follicle, it would be that. versus people who used products without silicone for an entire year.

31:58Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:And what they saw was there was no difference. Those products, the silicone did not clog a follicle and interfere with hair growth. Number two, there are plenty of studies to show you were asking about shed that comes from breakage. Silicones are so effective, especially if you have damaged hair, for reducing the amount of shed that happens from breakage. So they're a big help. sulfates. There's a lot of fear out there that, oh, they might be too harsh. They're contributing to hairs falling. And that's why a lot of people, when they see more hair fall, they'll often switch to a different shampoo or conditioner thinking that's what I need to do.

32:41Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:But we had in our clinical studies, two of them, sulfate containing shampoos. because the sulfates work with the chemistry in the product to help deliver the antioxidants to your scalp. So they're playing an active role, not just in cleansing, but in delivering the antioxidants. And we measured in these clinical studies what's the effect that it's having on the scalp condition. So we saw that the scalp barrier improved, the hydration of the scalp improved, which goes against the fear that people have that sulfates are going to be harsh on the scalp. So we feel quite confident from those results to say, no, these sulfate-containing shampoos with antioxidants is doing good for your scalp.

33:32Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:It's doing good to help hair emerge healthier and doing good to help your hair stay rooted in your scalp for longer. Okay. Let me ask you this.

33:41Dr. Jeni Thomas:when you're doing your testing, we know you're doing a lot of it. In some instances, maybe not with this line, but you might be looking at benchmarks from other brands like luxury brands or salon brands. Do you guys do that? Can you say?

33:54Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:We do test against what options do people have out there, whether it's a product or if it's some kind of behavior that they think would make a difference or even things like would onion juice make a difference? Onion water. Onion water, yes. I remember that. TikTok trends. We didn't actually test that. one. But I know that came up. Yeah.

34:13Dr. Jeni Thomas:Well, my question is, do you think that it's ever worth it to spend over$50 on a shampoo? Again, we know that you've been working at a drugstore brand for many years, but have you done that sort of test where you can say, okay, well, that's just a different ingredient that, you know, we wouldn't be able to incorporate, but they can. And so we just have our audience and they have theirs. Or is it a case where you're like, I don't understand the price difference. It's the packaging. I don't know. You tell me.

34:47Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:So I say this as a scientist, we've done some testing of products. Let's say repairing products in general of what we might offer for$10,$12 from Pantene versus what someone might pay$60 for. and with objective tests looking at the performance that you get we don't see that you get more by paying more my scientific view and i take the we nerd out on this i take that with the utmost of compliment um and we mean it that way yeah that way we see it just takes science And there's a lot of science that's behind this$10, a$10 conditioner, at least that comes from us. I can only speak for what we put out there or what's coming with the abundant and strong.

35:44Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:Very cool. Okay. So save your money, everyone.

35:46Dr. Jeni Thomas:That's what I'm gathering. It's something that Abby brought up last night because she's genetically blessed with her hair. Like she's, she's taken her hair to the next level with the Abby Young method. We can all agree. It looks incredible. It's like shiny, glossy, like mermaid, beautiful hair, if you're not familiar. But she talked about something last night, why she likes to use a product like this, even though she has a lot of hair, is seasonal shed. Yes.

36:11Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:So talk to us about that. Okay. So I will say with Abby, she does have amazing hair and she's genetically blessed. But she also went through a transformation because she had been doing a lot to her hair, not caring for it well. and she spent, what is it, a year longer transforming her hair and all through her routine. And so while she's blessed, it's really what she, the care that she puts into it that explains why, yes, her hair is amazing. Seasonal hair loss. She mentioned that. And that was one of the things that we noticed in the clinical study is the antioxidant approach basically flattens the seasonal hair loss curve.

36:52Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:So this is a little known hair loss fact. So we shed more hair in the fall and little peak in the spring too. It's just part of that natural hair growth cycle. So you might have noticed more hair in the shower, more hair falling around you in these October, November months. It's very natural. We don't necessarily know why. People have theories, much like you know i'm just going on it does your hair go mercury retrograde what is happening i

37:27Dr. Jeni Thomas:think it's personally my personal opinion is that our our body is looking to conserve energy and the hair is the first thing to go which is why when my friends had those health challenges their body needed to reserve the energy to heal other things and i think that is what's happening but my very

37:44Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:unscientific opinion everyone it could be it could be because in the summer we just saw a lot of oxidative stress that built up and we don't know right exactly why but it's real and what we did very intentionally with the clinical studies was to time it so that we could cover that seasonal hair loss phase that's a very important factor with hair studies by the way because it can complicate the results if you don't account for it. Anyway, so we timed the research through this phase to see what happens to seasonal hair loss. And we saw while those that were on the placebo, they had that seasonal hair loss spike.

38:25Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:Those that were treating oxidative stress with the antioxidants that's now in this collection, they kept all of that hair for the most part on their head. Got it.

38:35Dr. Jeni Thomas:Yeah. Wow. Well, that's impressive. But let's talk about of the 500 people for all ethnicities. Did you notice a difference in the impact of this technology on one sort of hair type over the other?

38:51Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:We haven't seen much that's hair type dependent about this. And we have included across the clinical studies and that six week study that I mentioned, the full range of hair types, hair routines. And because it's so scalp and root focused, it seems to be universal action, which is great. And then knowing that your hair type is so much going to determine your hair routine, how often you wash or not, that's where the flexibility of getting it from the serum and from your wash routine is important so that you figure out what works in your routine. And also you can carry on with if you are someone who oils your hair, use different types of products to suit your hair texture, keep doing that.

39:40Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:If you found what works for you, keep doing that. This is just additive to that routine. But the benefit is there regardless of your hair type.

39:49Dr. Jeni Thomas:I'm interested from a research standpoint, what is the next gen of hair science? Are you using AI? Give us a peek behind the curtain if we were to go and put our lab coats on.

40:00Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:For sure. There's a lot more to learn. Every time we learn something, it opens up a new question. Yeah. So there's... So true. There's a lot more to learn. Yeah. With AI is a part of how fast can we learn things. And I'll give you an example. In this clinical research, one of the tools that we used was a phototrichogram. And this is about counting the number of hairs that are on your head. And then there was another tool to count the hairs that had fallen off your head. At first, we started this research years ago, we're literally manually counting. But as this work progressed, AI got us to the point where we were able to, one, count quickly, but two, separate out which hairs had fallen because they'd broken and which hairs had fallen because they had fallen from the root.

40:52Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:And so being able to separate that out then lets us tailor more solutions for one versus the other. And bring it all together. So thank you, AI, for that. Yeah, that's impressive.

41:05Dr. Jeni Thomas:Is this the tool that you experimented on, Carlene and I, with last night? You took a picture of our scalp? Was that the tool? That's, yes. It's like a high-res camera for your root area, everyone. And you could literally see that I had like three hairs growing out of one follicle. You can measure the density. That's supposed to be a good thing, by the way. Yeah. Like it was wild. And you could tell everybody was you were able to quantify the density. Yes. Of everybody's scalp photo. Yes. Which was so cool.

41:35Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:Your follicles are working hard for you.

41:38Dr. Jeni Thomas:Thank goodness for that. I mean, imagine after I get the abundant and strong on my head. Wow. Honestly, I was really impressed because you did my scalp and my results were so much better. They were great. Two years ago when I had it. Was it two years ago or a year ago? I think it was about a year ago. Yeah. Okay. And I just found it was so much better than the last time I had it done. So I'm going to go ahead and say one thing. I'm not using that crazy blow dryer that was so hot. The two in one. Yeah. The brush. The brush. And it was like so hot on my scalp. I think that was definitely a contributing factor.

42:15Dr. Jeni Thomas:I've also been on HRT for three months. So I don't know if that helped too. Oh, I think so. Yeah. Oh, I think so. For sure. But anyway, either way, I'm happy. It was it was. Yeah, your hair was looking real good under the microscope. Real strong, real abundant, real strong. Do you guys want to see these photos on Instagram? Should we post them? Yes, please. With our density. So we were right there with you nerding out. And then our final question for you is if you have a single most important piece of advice for anyone navigating this, because it can be emotional, this experience as well. And if, you know, if there's any like community or support groups or anything you would like to leave our listeners with.

42:52Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:It's a great question. It is very emotional. And I think one of the most important things to remember is. If you are noticing hair shed, you're in the majority. I mean, two out of three women are concerned with this. So if you're not noticing, you're lucky. But that is the minority of women. So one, I think people are talking so much more about this and you should feel comfortable talking about it because it is so common. Right. If you're really concerned, seek help from a dermatologist because they can run a whole battery of tests to see if there are underlying issues that should be addressed.

43:35Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:But you can also just start with simple solutions and see, does this make a difference? is this already helping get me to the point where I want to be with my hair? Yeah. Fantastic.

43:45Dr. Jeni Thomas:Well, thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Jenny Thomas. It's been a delight. We're so excited to try this out in our own showers and in our own vanities. And for everybody that's wondering, the Pantene Abundant and Strong Collection is available now for purchase on Amazon, in your drugstores, and we will link to it in our show notes as well. So thank you once again. Thank you so much for having me. I'm a longtime listener.

44:08Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:It is such a thrill to be here on the couch with you. Thank you so much.

44:14Dr. Jeni Thomas:Thanks for listening. You can find details on every product mentioned in today's episode, along with our exclusive promo codes on our blog at breakingbeautypodcast.com. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. Every episode will be delivered directly to your inbox so you won't miss a single thing. And get social with us. Let us know what you think of the episode. You can follow us on Instagram at Breaking Beauty Podcast. and did you know we also have a private Facebook group just search Breaking Beauty Podcast chat room you can even leave us a voicemail at any time with questions or feedback at 1-844-227-0302 and don't forget to subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast fix Spotify Stitcher Google Podcasts and Apple Podcasts where you can show us some love by writing a review see you next Wednesday

45:17Breaking Beauty Podcast Hosts:Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.