How-To Address Your Hair Thinning Woes with Advice From a Board-Certified Trichologist and a Celebrity Hairstylist

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27:46Adam, I did want to ask you, because I feel like this comes up a lot on TikTok about how do you know if you have hard water or not? Here in New York, for example, we have very good tap water. We have like Catskill Mountain water. But it's not like that everywhere. And as a global educator, I travel around and work in different markets, and I'm definitely in places sometimes. I was just in Brisbane last fall, Australia, and we worked with several models who were all incredible and great and all had really damaged hair. Oh, really? And it was about the sun and the beach and the water. A water softener makes the water feel better and probably sort of filters it a little bit.

28:23But I also don't really like what soft water does to hair. Yeah, what does it do? Well, it softens it, which isn't, it's not. Too flat then. It's not great for everybody. Okay. Like for people with curly hair, like me, my hair is straight today, but I have like naturally 3A curls, very curly. I can tell by my, how my curls act if I'm in soft water and you need different products. Yeah. Products that would normally put a cast on curly hair with soft water doesn't happen. Oh, interesting. It changes the way products work. And it's funny you say that because I do like my hair when I wash it in New York better than in Toronto.

28:59I swear. That's amazing. It could be just our municipal water system has like less. There's less of a need to correct it. Yeah. So it's just a little more natural. So does hard water contribute to hair thinning? Well, there have been some more studies done on this. And the new studies, because of the calcium magnesium salts that I have that are in the hard water, it can lead to hair loss. And that is more prevalent with people with a kinky coily hair texture, you know, very, very tight coils because it's difficult for the water molecules to actually penetrate all the way down. And when it does, the hair naturally is quite dry in general.

29:42So it just, it can really dry out the hair. But on the whole though, will hard water make your hair fall out? No. I suppose it's sort of like depending on your hair type, could it make the hair fall out? So yes and no, I guess is the answer. Yeah. Okay. Showerhead filters are not a bad idea. Okay. That's more like removing things from the water than like a water softener, which adds things to the water. I see. I see. Oh, yeah, yeah. Got it. So it's filtering out the… Yeah, the salts. Yeah, the calcium salts. I do know one editor who used to work with Carlene at Flair, and she's very fine hair.

30:19And she was talking about how like the T3 showerhead. Oh, it's great. It is. Yes. She was like, it was the only thing that made a difference and made her hair have a bit of volume. It didn't matter previously what shampoo and stuff she used. And I was like, oh, that's really fascinating. And it seems like kind of like a pain to even install it and do all of that. But I think it actually does make a difference. And for the sake of hair color too, like especially blondes. If there are like metallics in the water, that will deposit on your hair, you'll see it. Yeah, it's not good. Let's talk about the difference makers.

30:52Now, it's all over TikTok rosemary oil. Even some derms have recommended it. Is that something that you would promote at your trichology center, Penny, or not? Well, interestingly enough, Orbe's densifying collection in the densifying spray actually has rosemary extract in it. And we have white nettle and we have sage. So we have sort of leaned into sort of a plant extract, the phytonutrients element of what's going to be stimulating. We've also got peppermint in, especially spearmint in there too. So it's nice and refreshing in the spray. Yes, some can be extremely helpful, definitely. And I, you know, do work with oils.

31:38Can rosemary oil regrow your hair? Rosemary oil is a great astringent and it is a fantastic anti-inflammatory properties. There's no question about that. Is it going to regrow your hair? Well, I mean, I'm sorry, I don't think so. I mean, yes, I think it would take, maybe it could like help the microbiome on your scalp and then help, you know, the follicles sort of be, you know, to stay nice and healthy. But it's not going to actually grow your hair. Yeah, right. And also I think a lot of people misread that they should just leave this rosemary oil, which has been mixed with Lord knows what else, on their scalp.

32:16And then they end up with scalp issues. So, you know, if you're going to put oils on the scalp, you know, sure, leave them on for an hour and then jump in the shower and shampoo these oils off. And so the go-to for many years has been minoxidil. Is that right? It has been. It's been FDA cleared. It's been proven to, you know, suppress hair loss. it keeps the hair in what's known as the anagen stage a lot longer. So what it does is when it's a chemical that uniforms all your hair into anagen stage. So it stops the cycle, the growth cycle, it slows that growth cycle down. And that's when people first start it, they get quite frightened because there's a big shedding.

32:56And I used to explain what that chemical is doing is it's uniform all your hair. Also, a lot of people have a tendency of like, you know, using a lot of it because it's often in a foam form and it's very difficult to apply, minoxidil spreads across the scalp too. So you don't need very much of it either. Okay. So you use it in the shower and that is considered a drug? You don't use it in the shower. After the shower, you would apply, you'd apply other small drops or you would apply the mousse. It's, you know, 5 % is what you can buy in the Duane Reade, I mean, to the equivalent of what in Canada.

33:33Exactly. And you can buy it over the counter. You don't need a prescription. Anything higher than 5%, like 7%, 8%, you would need a prescription. Okay. And they do offer that by prescription or not, kind of like Chattanova versus. And also there's oral minoxidil these days as well. But I mean, that's something that you would have to, if you've got heart problems, you know, please do not just go on to some sort of like bogus website and go order yourself oral minoxidil. Please make sure that you are a good candidate for it. Right. Because there are some drawbacks, too. We were talking about, like, some people experience hair growth on their face.

34:06You know, there are side effects. You know, contact dermatitis is one of them. For women, maybe you don't want unwanted hair on your face. There are the side effects with oral and topical minoxidil. Yeah. I did get that side effect, by the way. You did? I take oral minoxidil. Yeah. And it did make my body a little hairier. Okay. Which I don't care. Yeah. It also makes my beard and eyebrows better. Yeah. Right. You know, pros and cons. Pros and cons. I can imagine certain people would really have an issue with more hair on their body. Yeah. And it is, so oral is not approved by the FDA for hair loss.

34:44It's prescribed off-label a lot. Right. Because it's old school and understood and everything, but was originally developed as an antihypertensive. Just to Penny's point, just to reinforce that point, if you're going to take the oral, you have to be careful. like if you have heart issues or blood pressure issues it may not be a good idea check with your doctor absolutely and you have to get a prescribed anyway so yeah you do okay so it was really cool yesterday that we were introduced to the orbe serene scalp densifying range and we were we're gonna ask you about this now the main ingredients and how it actually works how it's different from what else is on the market but i'd love for you to talk about the clinical trials that compared some of those ingredients to minoxidil.

35:29Yeah. Because I think that's very cool. It's such a great like new option, especially if you're somebody like me who's a bit bougie and probably wouldn't want to use Rogaine for women. She's got a compliance issue. I'll call it out. Yeah. You make it luxury. Yeah. It needs to come in a very chic, you know, packaging, which this does. Tell us everything. You are in the right place. I helped create the Lyme because I have hair loss myself. Like what Adam shared, I too have hair loss. I've got very, very fine, fragile hair. So the studies actually that were done aside from the densifying collection was a group of panelists were split into 50-50 and half were asked to use 5 % topical minoxidil and the other half were asked to use radensil and capixil.

36:23Now both of those are compounds. Okay. And those were two compounds together. And they were asked to use this topically for two months. And the results came back very favorable to the panelists that used the capixil and radensil over the minoxidil 5%, which I was so excited when I read this. And I couldn't wait to, you know, chat with the all-based leading science team. And they said, oh, yeah, and we're actually combining these into our products. And we're also adding pea sprout protein. Now, what I think, I think what sort of leads the charge here with Orbe, you know, utilizing these more homopat, sort of phytonutrients in their product range is the fact that there's zero side effects, where just as we were talking about with minoxidil, there's all these side effects.

37:21that that's not necessarily people want to have. And when you're getting fantastic results like this, now this wasn't Orbe's panel. This wasn't Orbe's. Yeah, this was like a peer-reviewed clinical study. This was a peer of this, correct. For the ingredients. For the ingredients. So, you know, the fact that it came back so promising, I'm thrilled to bits with, you know, the fact that we do have these three main ingredients. Now, Capixil has actually got the red clover extract in it that really can help thicken and fortify the hair strands. We've also gotten, that's been proven, and we also know that the Redensil is actually a compound of glycine and zinc.

38:02That is basically a keratin formulation. So it's protein, again, strengthens, fortifies the hair and makes the hair healthier and thicker looking, which is brilliant. And then, of course, you've got your pea sprout protein, which is a phytonutrient. And that's a great anti-inflammatory. So we can cover on a range of issues that are going on, whether it's age-related hair, because our hair, the follicle becomes smaller. The hair is in a shorter lifespan. You know, so this will actually help that inflammation on the scalp. It's a really, it's a wonderful trio. I have been using it and I'm getting results.

38:41Yeah. So it's there. So there's a shampoo, conditioner, and a leave-in densifying treatment spray. Any tips for how this treatment is best applied? And I do want to say something I learned yesterday is that this conditioner, you actually put it on your roots to help with the densifying. I'm so excited about the conditioner because I actually created it. So for everybody listening and everyone watching, for you guys out there who've got really fine hair and hate conditioner because you feel like this just weighs my hair down and it looks horrible, my hair right now is on its second day. Looks great.

39:13Yeah, it really does. And I'm very excited. Now, I wash my hair usually every day because I've never found a conditioner that I could use that I could push my hair to the second day because it just would be greasy and limp and horrible. So our conditioner has the capixil and the redensil and the pea sprout protein in it. It's very, it's not a heavy cream. It's described as a milky conditioner. And I was like, ooh, that's good. Yeah. So conditioner, anything milk is good right now. Apply it right the way through from your roots to your ends. Now, if you're very nervous and you think, no, no, no, no, my roots are going to go, then fine.

39:51Just put it on your mid-lengths to ends, which is absolutely fine. It will not make your hair greasy. What we want to do is after we've shampooed our hair, we want to be able to close the cuticle. So we just want to just add a little bit, put it right the way through, rinse it really well, and it will just be sensational. It's going to really help give a lovely shine to the hair without weighing your hair down. Yeah. Okay. And Adam, how do you talk to your clients? Because you're personally using it. I do, yeah. And so do I. Yeah. And same here. Like, I'm using it too. I feel like as a hairstylist, the insight that I try to give my clients is shampoo your scalp like you're used to.

40:33With the conditioner, because normally we shampoo the roots and condition the ends. Yes. What I tell people is think of it like a skin serum. Press it into your scalp. Like Penny said, it's not going to weigh your hair down. Yeah. You want those ingredients on your scalp where they're going to do what they do. Right. And speaking for myself, because I have coarse, thick, curly hair, I use the densifying conditioner on my scalp, and I use a different conditioner through the lengths of my hair. Oh, okay. It happens to be the deep treatment mask from Morbe. Right, right. That's what I like. Yeah.

41:02Bougie. Yeah. I mean, obviously. Yes. And for the treatment spray, we recommend using it on wet hair straight out of the shower. I think partly because, you know, when your hair is wet, it kind of clumps together and the scalp is a little more exposed. Right. That way when you spray it on, it really hits the scalp again. Yeah. I mean, I learned from Penny that I don't need to use as much of this as I was using. I really was bombing it. and you don't need to use that much. And there is, in addition to the Capixel ingredient, there's a little sneaky styling polymer in there that plumps the roots on contact.

41:42So if you bring it all the way through your hair, even though it's not a hair product, you do get a little instant volume benefit that just does something right away while the Capixel ingredient takes time to do what it does. Yeah, I've tried the line and I did find it, it gives you an instant like volumizing effect that you might get from a volumizing shampoo and conditioner. But I was really impressed by seeing the before and afters that you guys showed us yesterday. Like that to me did not look like Orbe. They're crazy, aren't they? It was like a lot thicker and it was over a hundred people, right?

42:17That you would - We've got a panelist, yeah, of over a hundred people. There's a study happening now. Yeah, we are. We're just like, We're literally just waiting now for our results to come in very, very shortly.

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44:16So professional treatments for hair thinning. It seems like Adam, you're a bit of a guinea pig. You've probably tried a lot of things. I love it. I am here for it. Professional treatments for hair thinning. We've heard a lot about microneedling. Does that work well or scalp derma rollers or what other maybe options are there that people could try? Well, the studies are good on microneedling. When we do it for the face, it's, I think, mostly about collagen induction. When you do it on the scalp, you get a cascade of healing and growth factors that come from basically the microinjury, which isn't severe enough to cause scarring or permanent damage, but it's supposed to help.

44:56My recommendation, having self-administered some microneedling with a microneedling device, I've heard that people like dermal rollers, And I think Penny is an advocate of a dermal roller. Big fan of a dermal roller. Like a scalp. Yeah, absolutely. So you would come in with thickening treatment here, spray it on. And then I'd definitely say, but don't punch your skin. Please don't. Because you're going to end up with like a staff infection. Staff infection. Yeah, staff infection. And it's just, you know, it can actually lead to a form of scarring alopecia. And you don't want to damage that. So you can actually purchase.

45:29I've seen scalp dermal rollers online that you can purchase. And so they're different than microneedling rollers? Yes. Okay. It's just wider diameter of the actual, the little spikes on the roller. Great. So that's helpful. And you can use that in tandem with the topical treatment. Yeah, why not? Absolutely. Yeah, stimulation. Any other devices that are worth the investment? Yeah, I'm a big, big fan of, it's like a little scalp massager. And it's like a little, it's got little rubber tips. Like silicone. Yeah. Yes. Oh my goodness. I love it. And that's a nice way of actually even washing your hair.

46:07You know, you just come in and you're not scrubbing with it. Just think about pressing the little handheld brush onto the scalp and then gently sort of massaging. So it's sort of in round sort of circular movements and all you're doing is sort of pressing it into the scalp. You're not sort of jarring it back and forth and matting all the hair up. And then sort of picking it up again and moving it to a different area on the scalp. It feels lovely. Yeah. Yeah. And it just gets the circulation going, right? It gets circulation going. Okay. And finally, Adam, what's the best haircut or hairstyle for people who are experiencing thinning?

46:42Are there any tricks that you can share? Great question. I will say this. At least when it comes to male pattern balding, do not attempt to compensate for missing density with extra length. You're on a slippery slope headed toward a comb over. Yeah. Okay. Which to a certain extent can work, kind of, but it's just I've seen people really in a misguided attempt to look their best wind up looking not so great. Yeah. Because they're overcompensating for missing density with a lot of length somewhere. Right. And like laying and placing and trying to like create an illusion. I think in general, shorter is better.

47:22Okay. And I think obviously using products that are going to help to redensify your hair is brilliant. But also on a more cosmetic note, sometimes I've used like root touch-up sprays or root touch-up products to sort of densify the scalp or the root in weaker areas. Like as a styling thing, it helps a lot. Filling in the hairline. Yeah, just fill it in. It's cosmetic, but, you know, it helps us out a lot. And like at Orbe, we have a product called Swept Up. It's like a volume powder. There are many versions of this. that is nice in fine hair because it creates a really dense bulky feeling to the hair.

48:03It beefs it up. Also if you've got that shiny scalp shining through it mats down the shine and that helps. That's a good tip. What do you think about those hair fibers? I feel like you see them at the drugstore. Like topics? I like it. You do like it too? And it's just been dermatology approved as well. Okay. Okay, good to know. And how long do those last in your hair? Until you wash them out, I guess. Until you wash it, yeah. I haven't found them to like transfer or like if it rains or something, they don't like move. They stick in there pretty well. But when you shampoo it, it comes out. Yeah, it does.

48:38Right. So for anyone who doesn't know, it's similar to kind of like a sprayer or powder, but it has fibers in it that actually kind of like the fiber ones for your lashes. It's like a fiber mascara, yeah, where it's sticking to the hair. It's like a shaker you shake it on. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much, Adam, for sharing, being so vulnerable. I love that you're so open about your own experience, especially as a hairstylist. I think that's... We've got to normalize it. Yeah, I love that. We do. I appreciate it. It's awkward and it's normal. Yeah, absolutely. Let's normalize it. Yeah. And thanks to you, Penny, as well.

49:11Oh, my pleasure. And, you know, hair loss is devastating. It's part of our identity when we're losing our hair. And, you know, don't be embarrassed. There's lots and lots of resources. I have a support group that all my trichologies clients are part of. If anyone wants to reach out to me, you can just reach out on my website. I also on my Instagram page to ask any questions and I can lead you to the right resources. I'm affiliated with some of the leading world leading dermatologists in hair loss. Yeah, I appreciate that. Well, thank you so much for your time. We've learned so much and thank you so much for having me on your show.

49:49Thank you. It was fun. Thank you. Thanks for listening. You can find details on every product mentioned in today's episode, along with our exclusive promo codes on our blog at breakingbeautypodcast.com. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. Every episode will be delivered directly to your inbox so you won't miss a single thing. And get social with us. Let us know what you think of the episode. You can follow us on Instagram at Breaking Beauty Podcast. And did you know we also have a private Facebook group? Just search Breaking Beauty Podcast chat room. You can even leave us a voicemail at any time with questions or feedback at 1-844-227-0302.

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50:50You like that cherry bomb. You like that cherry bomb.