Live Podcast! Dupe Culture, Wellness Musts, Skincare That Makes a Difference and *The* Colour We’ll All Be Wearing in 2025 with Tastemaking Style and Beauty Founders Jenny Bird and Laney Crowell

0:00The following podcast is a dear media production.

0:07Welcome to Breaking Beauty, the podcast all about the breakthrough people, products, and moments in beauty. We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins.

0:20Welcome everyone to this very first live podcast that we've ever done here at Breaking Beauty. So this is a very, very special evening for us. If you're not familiar, we are Jill and Carlene. We're two beauty editors turned beauty podcasters. And we talk about the breakthrough people, products, and moments and beauty every single Wednesday. That's right. We do do that. Well, I'm Jill. And in this episode, because we do have people listening to this episode, we're so excited to be joined by two incredible thought leaders in fashion and in beauty and tastemakers, I would say. I mean, look at these ladies.

1:01Well, look at these outfits. I mean, I'm already so inspired. So first up, we have the iconic Jenny Bird. She's really the creative force behind the eponymous award-winning jewelry and lifestyle brand, Jenny Bird. And thank you so much, Jenny, for hosting us in this space, the shop, a milestone moment for you, like 10 years in business. And we're just so thrilled to be here. Thank you. Thank you, Julia. 15 years actually in jewelry. Yes. This is a very special night for me too, as the shop has been a special place for us in New York for the last three months. So thanks for coming. And next we have Lainey Crowell, the visionary founder of the clean beauty brand Say.

1:40And Lainey is a past guest on Breaking Beauty. You can all check it out in our archives if you want to know the backstory behind Say. And little fun fact, I'm not just saying this, If you listen to the episodes, you'll know that my Desert Island beauty product is the say super glowy gel. I always say it wrong. Glowy super, wait. Glowy super gel. Glowy super gel. Everybody say it. Glowy super gel. And in the sun glow, it's my desert island product. I love it so much. So thank you for creating it. And thank you for being here, Lainey. So great to see you in person. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here with you guys.

2:19I'm so excited that you guys showed up. It's rainy. It's dark. But I think this is a great place to be on a rainy night. Yes, absolutely. And a Monday. So, yeah. And we also have our first live audience. We need to give you all a shout out. Let the people at home know you're here.

2:39And for our listeners at home, if you happen to be in New York, the shop at Jenny Bird is here at 21 Spring Street. It's open until December 22nd. So come by, get those stocking stuffers, get styled. And it's just like such an inspiring space. So I highly recommend everybody comes in. Another reason I'm excited for tonight personally is because I love beauty, as you all know, but I also love fashion and jewelry. And I love when the two worlds collide in the best way possible. Tonight, we're going to be talking about fashion and beauty and women run businesses and what it takes to just bring that creativity every day, sustainability, all of the good things.

3:19And so one thing you do have in common is being these strong female leaders in the space. So we want to start by asking about age inclusivity, because I feel like this is also something that both brands do so well. So, Jenny, tell us how you manage to appeal to everyone. I love that your ads are so inclusive, but, you know, Gen Z, Gen X, different. So how do you how do you kind of approach that? Well, there's one common theme for me. For us, we are marketing to and speaking to a person who wants to stay current, who wants to look her best, who wants to be in the now. And you do make that conscious decision as a person to decide whether you're going to stay in the game and feel modern and cool and look modern and cool as you age.

4:04And we know that that is someone that has made that decision. And that's who we're speaking to. It is also, you know, so I really, you know, when someone, and we get this question all the time from potential business partners too, is what's the demo you're serving? I'm like, it's not, it's an attitude. It's, it's such an, it's such a vibe. Yeah. Yeah. It's such a dated question. Now. I think the other really important takeaway for us is it's really built in, right? Like we have younger celebrities that have been wearing and endorsing the brand, like Haley Bieber, Selena Gomez, et cetera. And then we have the older women that we, that I look at, like Reese Witherspoon, Michelle Obama, Meg Ryan, that, you know, we have it built in and then myself too.

4:41So what I find the most interesting is, and we have a pair in the audience here, a mother, daughter who are equally as interested in the brand because they're just, they're just enthusiasts of the category and of their own personal style and beauty. Can't agree more. What about you, Lainey? I love that you just said it's a dated question. Oh, it is. Because I totally agree. I think it's something, our motto is feel good, do good. Everyone wants to feel good. It doesn't matter how old you are. We do think a lot about our platforms though. So how are we speaking on TikTok? How are we speaking on Instagram?

5:16How are we speaking on Pinterest? And then ingredients. We do think a lot about ingredients. So I'm very acne prone. I've suffered from acne my whole life. So we formulate our products so that even the person with the most sensitive skin. If you're a teenager going through puberty or if you are acne and menopause or dealing with dry skin as your skin gets older, our ingredients are nourishing and hydrating for everyone. I love that. The number of stories I wrote as a beauty editor at a magazine that was like 20s, 30s, 40s. And if like you're over 40, you're just dead, apparently. So like you don't read those stories anymore.

5:55So I think it's important to note those signposts as we go along. So I want to ask both of you about dupe culture because it's one of my favorite topics. It's a juicy one. And we know that dupe culture, it's ever present in beauty and in fashion. So Jenny, let's start with you. How do you feel about dupes and dupe culture? Well, in fashion, there's the idea that you either are setting the trends or you're following them. So unless you are being duped, you are not a trendsetter. So I'm happy to announce that I'm being duped all the time. It means that I'm winning. You know, for me, there's things, there's dupes that I, that come up all the time, but there's, there's ones that I decide just to not pay attention to and others that, you know, I do have to act on because it's, it's hurtful to the brand.

6:41So for example, there's shell companies out there that are from overseas that are, you know, duplicating many trending brands all the time. And they're, they're not speaking to my community, I don't take any time on that. I think my customers actually get more upset and defensive of us than I do in that case. Again, I take it as a good sign. When there are credible high fashion brands that are taking inspiration from my creations, again, hard to say. I have to take it really with a grain of salt because those talented accessory designers in those houses share my talent where I have a gift to know what will be trending before it's happening.

7:20And so I'm able to deliver that high fashion look before it's trending to our customers at our price point. Their designers are doing the same. So often I will pause and think like, you know, are we all just tracking to the zeitgeist of that puffy earring, that puffy sofa being what is going to be trending? And I want to make that big dollop from your ear. A classic example from that was Bottega. They came out with their drop earring, you know, basically around the exact same time as we did. And the interesting thing about that with dupe culture is we actually benefited from it because we became known on TikTok as the way to get that look for a reasonable price, right?

7:54For about a quarter of what Bottega with our nouveau puff for about a quarter of what Bottega was charging. And that was awesome because it really just like showed the value in our designs as a house. So lots, it becomes really interesting anyway. You have to look at it with a different lens. How about you, Lainey? We see a lot of dupes in beauty culture. a lot of dupes and beauty. I think I take a little bit of like a no nonsense approach to it in the sense of like innovate or die. And if someone's duping me, that means I'm doing a great job. And if I'm worried about it, that's on me because that means I'm not innovating.

8:31I also just try not to look at competition. I think that we are all one. And so if I'm worried about competition, I'm just competing with myself. And if I get in that mindset of like thinking a lot about other brands. There was another brand that launched a dupe, called it Sunglow. And I was like pissed. And then I was like, thought to myself, I was like, I'm not going to waste my energy on this because it means I'm not spending time thinking about how I can be innovating and how I can be making something that is exciting and new, like enough that no one's ever tried before. And that's what I want to be bringing to the table.

9:09That's what I want to be proud of. So, you know, I think you just got to keep moving. Yeah. It's kind of trusting in yourself, right? That you can be creative. It's a, it's an infinite well, you know, it's not going to run out where you won't have the next great idea. You feel like you have an infinite well? I think my well is like too deep at times. I have too many ideas. And I think, I think teams say sometimes it's like, can you slow down and take a breath. See, so you don't have to worry. Keep the dupes coming, right? Because it means you're... Yeah. Keep blinders on. That's one of my biggest advice around competitors.

9:46Keep blinders on. I fully agree with that. I was designing for a while when I started with handbags. When I got into jewelry, I was really focused on like just more from a businesswoman standpoint of like what's in the market, what doesn't exist. And that's how I landed on clean metals at a good price point. But I was really looking and analyzing at what was in the market to decide on what was missing and what I wanted to bring. And I noticed when I was doing that, after the first little while that it was really getting in the way of my own innovative blue sky creativity. And so I just stopped completely.

10:14And it's basically been the birth of so much unique ideas and innovation on my side too. I remember when I was fundraising, all these male investors would say, there's so much competition. And I was like, I actually don't think there's any competition. There's nobody doing what I'm doing. Yeah. Amazing. You ladies aren't down Reddit rabbit holes like me.

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13:31so I want to ask about sustainability as well because I know that's important to both of your brands and I find in beauty since I have an eye on that industry but I think in fashion as well there's just this thirst from retailers and from the world for newness that creates excitement We were talking about innovation, but how do you balance sustainability with that kind of constant flow of newness that sometimes you might see in fast fashion, but you're not fast beauty and a fast jewelry line? So how do you balance this? Well, Say was born with a pillar of sustainability because of just my childhood.

14:13I was born in Colorado. My mom actually worked for the Solar Institute of America, which is a little difficult to think about when you think that we've known for all this time of what we could do. But she taught me from a young age that it's our job to leave the planet better than we found it. So when we would hike, my mom wrote a book on hiking with kids. Actually, it's called Take Them Along. It's really cute. She would give me a bag to put in my pocket to pick up trash. This was when I was like five years old. So this this is part of who I am, something I'm really passionate about. So it's always been a part of our DNA since we launched the brand.

14:49And gosh, how many months ago now, maybe two or three months ago now, we launched the Say Climate Initiative, which is something I'm really proud of. We committed to collecting over 5 million pounds of plastic over the next three years. And it's just the beginning, honestly, of our commitment to doing the right thing. Our side, I mean, quality of the product is critical in our category. You have to have beautiful base metals, long lasting plating. And then again, pieces that are timeless in their design. So they're modern, but they have a lot of longevity. You know, I want people to find JB, like I find really beautifully made vintage pieces in the vintage markets years to come.

15:27There's also a huge need for us in our packaging. We have a beautiful, we just did this beautiful overhaul of how the jewelry arrives to you so that it is industry leading in its sustainability there as well. right down to the econ box itself. I think, I think it's just like, that's just status quo now in terms of being responsible citizens to the planet, like you live in your home and like you walk around the world as well. Yeah. I love that. And speaking of timeless, I told you before we started tonight that I'm wearing these earrings, these Aurora earrings. I wore them in my passport photo.

15:59So they're going to look good in 10 years too. I'm banking on it actually. And so both of you, what I really admire so much about both of you is the way that you both give back to your communities. Even tonight, like the proceeds from the ticket sales are going to Planned Parenthood, which I just think is amazing. And Planned Parenthood is matching them. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. Fantastic. So can you share a little bit about what charitable causes have inspired each of you most and why it's important to like share the success of your brand with your community? Jenny, maybe you can start. Sure. So we at JB, it's important that everyone that is a part of the brand is contributing to that same cause, which for us is uplifting women in three stages of need through our possibilities fund.

16:45So every purchase supports that fund and there's a percentage of it that gets directed down into it. And then we are actively applying those funds in three stages, like I said, of need. So there's first urgent need and the mental wellness and then mentorship. This is actually part of the pillar of mentorship where we're sharing our programming and sharing thoughts around thoughts and experiences in building a company to aspiring founders of the community and uplifting other women through this type of event. But to me, it's important that that cyclical figure eight flow of energy and intention when it comes into the brand, the way that Jenny Bird earrings or the jewelry, whatever your piece you're wearing, uplifts you and makes you feel confident and just stand a little bit taller that that then is going to flow back and support another woman to feel the same.

17:25That's beautiful. Thanks. How about you, Lainey? I think a lot about giving back. It's interesting right now, I live in a really small community. So I moved out of New York and I live in a small town. And when we moved there, my husband said, if we're going to live here, we have to be part of the community. And I honestly don't know if I'd ever really thought of community in that way because my background is in social media. And so the word community to me had always meant like this online platform. And so we moved to the small town And we've been giving back to our community in like these little ways that then have these like ripple effects.

18:02And it's been such a game changer for me to think about like how you can do something really little that then has effects that, you know, you can see as well. And so, I don't know, I just brought that up because I feel like it's been something that's really impacted my life recently. and with the holidays and giving, like I would love for all of you to think about that, of like how can you engage your community, whether that's like a friend or your family or your town or your neighborhood or your school, that IRL community. I think that's a great point that, you know, sometimes the world can feel overwhelming if you think about it too big globally.

18:42It's like, what can I do? What are the steps I can do that are actually going to make a difference? So I love that idea of just, it's like anything when you're facing something big, just look at what's right in front of you. Right. And so that's something I think sometimes we can maybe take for granted is just those little steps in our own community. If everybody does that, that will add up to a big hole as opposed to just kind of being paralyzed by the idea that it's too much, it's too big, climate change, can't deal with it and do nothing, you know? So I think that's a great point. And what about wellness for each of you?

19:14Because I know your moms, your slang and your businesses, and it's a lot to juggle. So what are a few daily, weekly habits that you do to just stay grounded? I just think it's funny. Like I'm going to say, Lainey, do you have this long, beautiful morning routine with a kid? Well, when I was thinking about my answer to this question, I was like, I'm going to have a really hard time not being sarcastic. be sarcastic that's fine I think you need the mom yeah I have a two-hour morning routine I get nine hours of sleep no I think the only way for me to have any sort of wellness routine as a as a mom so my daughters are seven and four and Rosie loves to wake me up at 2 a.m.

19:59every morning which is fabulous but I I'd have a green smoothie that I make every day it's the bondberry smoothie. Does anyone know palm berries? Yes. Okay. She has a smoothie and it's like packed with kale and spinach and lots of fruit. So it's probably spikes my glucose, but I know that I'm going, that I got all those greens in, even if I don't eat another vegetable all day. And so that takes just a couple minutes. So that's a hack. I have a, I just sent this to my friends recently. It's a Deepak Chopra meditation on YouTube. That's really great. And if I wake up 10 minutes earlier than my kids, I'll put that on and do that.

20:40I had a third one. What was it? Oh, yeah. I schedule my workouts and I do them. And even though it's really hard for me to say to my kids in the morning, I only see you for an hour and a half in the mornings and I'm going to miss some of that. They know that I'm taking care of myself. And I think that's really powerful. And this morning, my husband was in D.C. my workout was at 630 and they sat on the floor and watched me work out. And I think that is really powerful. I'm saying I am going to put myself first in this moment. And I think that's major. Georgie has watched me work out a bunch of times.

21:17It was kind of annoying, but it was what it was. It's like my only me time, but it's okay. Oh my God. I feel you. Yeah. There's no morning. I mean, my morning routine is, is mission, get the kids out the door to school. By the time they're actually dropped off, my nervous system is like, feels like it's fried from actually accomplishing this incredible feat. So one of my hacks is from like 8.45 drop off to 11 a.m. Like our team really works on, they zone in on my calendar and there's a meeting free zone until 11 a.m. That's when I go back. I'm alone in my house. That is a huge wellness thing for me.

21:54I need to be alone in my house. My husband knows if he's home to get out and preferably he's doing errands for, you know, some of the things that we need. No, I'm just, it's true though. Or returning my many web orders and my shopping problem. It's full-time job. Yeah. I relate. No. So I do that. And then a big one for me is sleep. Like I really realized I actually wasn't conscious about how I was not allowing myself to rest when I was tired. Like I was physically so tired and I would push myself and not, like I actually allow myself to go to bed when I am tired instead of pushing through and then getting that like extra burst of energy late at night and staying up too late.

22:31And that's been a huge thing. We know that sleep is the number one factor for wellness overall mental health too. So that's a really big one for me. Paint the picture of your bedside. I'd like to know, is there a blackout eye mask? What do you have to get the sleep hygiene going? So a sutra is that beautiful. It's backed by, it's sorry, a sutra cream and sleep mask. And it's melatonin and magnesium based lotion. you put it on instead of like whatever regular lotion you put on at night. It's unbelievable. It's beautiful. So I do it like on where I feel like it will really like actually get involved in my circulatory system.

23:09So like on my feet, up my lower legs, my pulse points behind my neck and on my chest and belly. Again, it's just a lotion application. It's beautiful. It drops you into a deeper sleep, like in a longer sleep. It's really stunning. So there's that. And then the book I'm reading. Oh, what's that? Daisy, Daisy and the Six. Oh, Daisy Jones and the Six. Yeah. So good. You need to watch the show because it's like Riley Keough. Yeah, yeah. It's so, so good. It's so good already. Yeah, honestly. So I think now we're going to talk some beauty top shelf essentials because I know our audience that's here.

23:41That's what you want to hear. You want to get the goods. So Jenny, I'm going to start with you. What are your top three difference makers on your top shelf that you can't stop yapping about? Like you're in your group chat telling your girlfriend, like what fragrance is it? What is it? A face cleanser. the melatonin cream? Okay. So I'm in my skincare era. Yes. Mainly because I'm freaking out that I'm committed to natural aging, which I'm, I'm really excited about. However, I'm close to 50. So things are getting real. So my big thing is exfoliation and hydration, those two things. So my top three are those, and they have been game changes for me in those areas.