Makeup Legend Bobbi Brown is Here! Her “Still Bobbi” Memoir Reveals, How-to Use Jones Road Miracle Balm the *Right* Way and “Hacking” Her Way To The Top

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26:11Tell us a story about your first Vogue cover with Naomi Campbell. It was a cover try, which, you know, I was more than excited. Patrick de Marchelier was the photographer. And I think the editor was Grace Coddington. I don't remember if it was her or Carl, Carlene de Cerf. But DDA did the hair and it was Naomi Campbell. And she, you know, it was her first Vogue cover, but she was still becoming Naomi. me. And we had to get up really early and get the model ready and shot at the beach. And I just remember Patrick yelling, genial, genial, which means genius, you know, and we shot it and you didn't know if it was a cover at all.

26:54Right. And when I heard it was a cover was when my husband showed up at a location van. He was my fiance at the time and he had the cover of Vogue in his hand to give it to me because he had a friend that worked in corporate and Vogue. And that was like a big, big moment. Wow. Wow. And what was the reception from Naomi afterwards? She wasn't happy. So I remember just used, I had no lipstick set of my own at the time, but I used a chocolate stain and I just blotted it on her lips and filled in the whole lip. And I thought it was gorgeous. Yeah. Gorgeous. And I heard she didn't like it. Oh, okay.

27:31Well, you guys are intrinsically bonded on your first vote code no matter what. It's a moment in time, right? It really reminded me in your book, The Power of Networking, which I don't think a lot of people coming up are doing as much of because your stories about, it was almost like the Forrest Gump movie where he just ended up in all of these things because he talked to the right person at the right time. So could you share a couple of those? I mean, there were so many in my career. I mean, my favorite story is still when I was at a book signing for my first book in Florida. I was at Neiman Marcus, the in-circle ladies.

28:07Everyone's very fancy. And at the end of my talk, I, and, and in those days, I had to just get up and talk. There was no interview. And so I talked and I demonstrated and I said, are there any questions? And there was this very little lady sitting in the back of the room. And I just love, I always loved old, old people. Okay. I'm becoming one, but I always loved old people. So I went over to her and she grabbed my hand after I answered her question about keeping lipstick on. And she said, honey, I've seen you on the Today Show. I'd been on once. And she said, is there anything else you'd want to do in your career?

28:40And I said, I'd like to be a regular on the Today Show. Where that came from, she said, honey, Jeff Zucker is my grandson. And that was, Jeff Zucker was the executive producer at the time. And I got on the show Monday morning. Amazing. And stayed for 14 years. So powerful. Maybe I've got a little bit of like psychic mysticism or something. There's so many more of those gems in the book, everyone. But of course, me, I love that you served up some major tea. And when I tell you that my jaw dropped when you talked about the royal wedding in your book. Right. Because the royal wedding of Prince William and Kate Middleton, April 2011.

29:14And we knew that she used Bobby Brown products, your namesake brand at the time. I did not do her makeup. I wish I did. It was one of my artists. Right. Hannah Martin, who's become quite a sensation in the UK. Yes. Yes. But at the time in the press, and I think up until right now, we were led to believe that she had done her own makeup. So I feel like this was a reveal in your book, a confirmation. I know that Kate was constantly coming into a Bobby counter, buying some of her favorite things. You know, I think Sandwash Pink was one of it. One of them. I don't think it's made anymore, but I remember the color.

29:49And Hannah did give me some information that I should set my alarm and watch. Yeah. And so then she, you know, her and I were texting. I was sitting up. I remember it was like six in the morning or something. And we were texting back and forth. And she's like, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God. I did get a note, though, that I guess I have hanging now in my office in Montclair from not from Kate, but from her person that wrote her letters saying how much she appreciated, you know, the makeup. Yeah. I wore Bobby Brown. was my makeup of choice. Last time we chatted, which was in 2018, and we had you on the pod, we're going to link to that in our show notes so everybody can hear the origin story of how you launched that brand.

30:38But you bootstrapped it, you launched 10 lipsticks at Bergdorf's, and then you left your namesake brand in 2016. And some people don't even know that, by the way. Which is crazy that people think I'm still there. Yeah. And they, you know, a lot of people go into the Bobby Brown counters and ask for Miracle Balm or what the foundation, they don't understand the concept, you know, it's your name. Yeah. I sold my name. Yeah. They're like, how, how is it possible? And I think that you couldn't, when you and I chatted, I don't think there was a lot you could reveal about that time, but you do talk about it in the book.

31:20So what was going on when that split happened and the day you decided to walk out? Well, the day it all came down, you know, I mean, it was, you know, you read the book and you're like, did I quit or did I get fired? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there's two stories. There's my story, and I'm sure there's another story I don't know. But the day it ended, I still had four and a half years left on a non-compete of 25 years. And I was 59 years old and I was like, okay, I didn't think I was going to do anything else. I didn't know. I had no thoughts in my head. And, you know, I remember having periods of like sadness, anger, and then total excitement about what could be.

32:08And, you know, you went back and forth between a lot of those emotions for a while. And then eventually the you know the sad angry person went away and the excited person kind of came out yeah was it a case of like were they sort of launching wanting to launch products without your approval or your ideation or one of one of one of many of those things yeah kind of you know like I was used to when when my company was bought and I became part of the corporation Leonard Lauder was the CEO and our relationship was so incredibly close. He believed in me so much. I would just have to call him and say, I've got this idea.

32:49And he'd say, that is a winning idea. Let's do it. You know, I mean, there was another CEO that was there that everything I did, he'd write me thank you notes. I mean, thank you so much for what you did this season at Bubba. You know, and things change. Yeah. You know, not every person has the same style. Right. And, you know, look, people get fired. Yeah. People break up with people. People lose their jobs. Yeah. People, there's always some reason for it. And there's, you know, if you don't have those things happen to you, you'll have no room for something new. True. And possibly better. Yeah.

33:25Yeah. That's true. I feel like writing a memoir must be a bit tricky, thinking about, like, who might get upset. so what was the most difficult thing to write about? Well, first of all, it's been edited many, many times and it really got edited by my husband where we talked about it. He says, are you sure you want to say it this way? Is he a lawyer? He is a lawyer. That's helpful. But it wasn't, there was nothing, you know, it wasn't a legal thing. It was, why do you need to do that? You know, I didn't want to air dirty laundry, You know, get me a bottle of tequila and ask me these questions off air.

34:07I'll tell you the truth. But I'm just I don't need to be that person. You know, I just I you know, I mostly wrote the book. Yes, these things happen. But this is what I did with it. And yes, it was hard. And yes, I did feel sad. And yes, I did feel angry. But you get over it, you know. So now I seem to be the person that people call me when they're in similar situations. Yeah. And I'm like, OK, calm down, breathe. Yeah. Yeah. And when I went through it, by the way, I got a call from Marcia Kilgore, you know, who's now with Beauty Pie. And she said, are you OK? And I said, no. And we talked about it and she talked about her experience.

34:45And she goes, listen, you got to do this again. And you come here and I'll bring you to all my labs. Wow. I mean, that's, you know, a competitor. Yeah. Whatever. And I and I'll never forget it. She was so kind. And I think that kind of speaks to this new era that we are in where founders are supporting founders. And I will just say, I noticed that you're very active on social. You're the first person to comment something positive on another makeup artist's post. Yeah. Whether it's Hung launching his line. I was so excited. I don't know him. I've met him, but I'm like, congratulations. It looks great.

35:17Yeah. Or even when Jada from Amikole, I saw you posted something on her page and I was like. Oh, no, I was on the phone with her talking to her. Yeah. And by the way, you know, recently Mally called me. And Mally left her company. Oh, wow. And I'm excited for Mally because, you know, she's going to do great things. Yeah, you're mentoring now in a new way. These second acts of sorts, which is incredible. Like very, very powerful. And again, I think the shift that's happened over the years is like that, you know, the idea that there is enough. There's enough for everyone. It's not the way it was before where it was like it's an either or, guys.

35:54I mean, we cherry pick all the time in our beauty routines. and I kind of feel like the way it is now, it's almost like fashion designers, right? It's like, just because I like Chanel doesn't mean I can't wear Dior or whatever. You know what I mean? A hundred percent. It's kind of like that. And I have enough comfortable, is there a word called comfortability or did I just make that up? But I have enough of that, that I'm comfortable with the products I'm making that I think they're great. And if people like someone else's better, that's okay. There's enough people to like what I do. Let's talk about Jones Road.

36:31You debuted your second makeup brand on the exact day that your 25-year non-compete with Estee Lauder expired. That was October in 2020. So for anyone who doesn't know Jones Road Beauty, what's your elevator pitch? Let's do the proper introduction. Jones Road is a clean brand that empowers women to look like themselves, but better with products that have multi-uses that give you, you know, everything you need in, in a product, whether it's, you know, staying power glow, it's there, but it's simple and you don't need to be a makeup artist to wear Jones Road. Yeah. Okay. How was that? 30 seconds or Perfect.

37:16That was perfect. Write that down in case I forget. Who's going to invest? Somebody hit that button. Talk to us about the Hero product in your line and the secret to using it well. So if you want to. I feel like this product has been misunderstood at times, right? You know what? Walk us through. It's by far, it's our number one product. Yeah. It does incredibly well. You know, what the foundation, by the way, does really close. But this one, let's see, we've got Magic Hour and we've got Dusty Rose. So what this product does, and it comes like this, and what it does is it tints the skin. It is a skincare moisturizer.

37:56It can add luminosity if it's one of the, you know, the luminosity color ones like Magic Hour. It also could be used as a blush, a brighter one like Flushed. And you could use it by itself. You could use it over makeup. If you have oily skin, you could use it over powder. And the way to use it is, and we discovered this after we launched it, because people would say, oh, there's no payoff. No, there's no payoff. You break the seal, and I mean just like this, and it activates the color. Kind of like creme brulee a little bit. Yeah, and then you take it, and then you take your fingers, the way I use it, rub the fingers together, pat it on.

38:42and then I take the excess and I put it on my neck lightly everywhere, but most of it goes here. And then you could use your hands for those flyaways that I always have. You could use it on your lips. You could use it on your body. So if there's nothing else on your face, you could use it. You can also then add like another layer. So this is Magic Hour, which is my favorite luminous that just goes on here. A little highlighter on the tops of the cheeks. Yeah. And that's how you use it. Beautiful. Amazing. And it's so easy to carry around because it's like a bomb. Right. For people who can't see, it's kind of like a bomb texture.

39:22Beautiful bomb. So what was your first impression of it when you got it in your hands? Like, how did you know it was going to be like the hero? Well, I didn't know. And actually, when it arrived in the mail, I happened to be in the office that day. It was during the pandemic. but we must have had vaccines because we were working together. And I was expecting something else because we wrote a brief to this company and I expected something different. And when I got it, I'm like, this isn't what I asked for. But then I dug my fingers in it because I'm a curious person. And then I put it on and I looked in the mirror.

39:59I'm like, oh my God, this is a miracle. and there came the name yeah yeah and what about the the foundation did you say what the I did I I put I put the when I tried what the foundation on my face I said what the yeah you can curse I do have a necklace that says that I tucked away but I'll just pull it out hell yeah yeah I was on NPR so I had to put it away so that the the what the foundation is also in kind of like a tub. Right. It's in a tub. And I mean, it's the first thing I put on my face today after sunscreen. And, you know, it just gives you better looking skin. Yeah. So it's different than something that you would pump out of a chew.

40:44Maybe you could talk about the texture. We tried it in a pump and I didn't like it. It took away the magic. So honestly, it's just when you're when you want even skin, but you don't want to look like you're wearing makeup. Right. I put this on. And I don't need a powder with it because I have very dry skin. But if you have oily skin, you just put a little powder on the parts you don't want, you know, luminosity. Right. Using your fingers, what's your technique? I use my fingers for everything. But we have a skin brush that people use for it. So it really depends on the person. We had somebody ask us in our chat room about if you wear moisturizer with that are not.

41:21It depends how dry your skin is. It is so emollient that you don't need moisturizer with it. And I also could put moisturizer on top of it if I ever put it on and say I need a little bit more moisture. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah. That's probably the biggest difference is it is very emollient. It is. Which is why it's in a tub, right? And we had to work really hard on the formula so that the emolliency doesn't kind of seep into the product. Right. Because, you know, you don't want to have like an oil glop and separation. So we worked really hard on it. Yeah. Yeah. Do you feel like formulation is still fun for you?

41:56Oh, totally fun. It's the most fun. I don't know if that's more fun or our photo shoots. Oh, yeah. I mean, our photo shoots. So my husband and I have a photo and TV studio in Montclair called 18 Label. Okay. There's an Instagram for that, but I don't run that one. Thank God. Thank God. So we do our shoots there and we stopped using stylus because, you know beauty you don't need it so much and we have a wardrobe closet so we have a beautiful like room that has everything and we get you know we borrow things from designers or borrow things or buy things on Zara yeah you know to kind of but our shoots every two months and a lot of the models are on rotation yeah they're just people I've found or found on the street you know we hire a couple professional ones and it's the same team same photographer yeah same hairdresser same nail person and we just have a ball.

42:51That's awesome. It's really fun. Very creative. Yes and I style them and you know sometimes I fight with my daughter-in-law because I like big earrings. She likes teeny earrings. But you know I'm like you can always retouch them. We'll do them both ways. I love that you're still as passionate about that part of it. It's a creative outlet. Like I'm not a painter but it's my creativity and I also edit the pictures you know I do the first and the second edit I choose the hero shot so you know yeah I mean I was the CCO of Bobby Brown right creative officer so I mean it's amazing to me how the scrappiness that got you into this industry at the beginning is still very prevalent and you know you're grabbing models like you said off the street you're not hiring and you're ubering here you don't have a black car like all of these things I wish I had a black car we do we were in our bags, but no, we Ubered.

43:47Yeah. I love that spirit. It's just kind of who I am. I mean, even when we opened our first store, you know, the first Jones Road store, because my husband had a building and he said, I have a space. Do you want a store? I said, yeah. So we went in there and he's like, where do you want the counter? How do you want this? And I brought my creative director who at the time was 24 years old. And she's like, so we built it. And then I said, uh-oh, we don't have anything on the walls. And we were opening in a week. Like we didn't think about it. So I said to Erin, go print out all of these great photos that we've done and get the Jones road tape.

44:21And we taped it up and it looks so cool. It's still our style. And now we have 10 stores. The only difference is now we paint the walls magnet and they're magnetized because then they don't curl up at the corners. Oh, yeah, yeah. Smart. You're giving me lessons all along here, which is just like, don't overthink it. Don't overthink it. Just do it. Just do it. And if it doesn't work, do it differently. Yeah, exactly. The pivot. Yeah, exactly. The power of the pivot. I wanted to ask you about the stores because when you first started launching them, I was a little surprised because it seems like an expensive proposition and retail was having trouble at the time and everything was kind of going digital.

45:06So why did you decide that stores were part of your DNA? Well, we didn't decide. We just did it. So my husband, you know, we opened the first one and women were lined up outside. You know, people came from all over, you know, from Germany, from, and they would, it was like Mecca, them going because, you know, they saw the things online. They ordered some things. And then we're like, wow, that's cool. We should have one in the city. Okay, well, and guess what? Every store is profitable. Wow. Every single store is profitable because why do something? if it's not profitable. Yeah. It's like, you know, but our, right now we have 10 stores, right?

45:4510 stores. And we're going to probably open another four to six, you know, this year. And it's, it's been really great. Like people love to go in and, and I, we've trained every artist. Now we've got to just enforce it, but I've trained every artist. I worked one day in the store and my head was going to blow up. to remember like what product to tell someone. But then I devised this pad of paper and when I put all the products down and people could take a pen and just go these colors instead of thinking of the names and writing them down. So I hacked that too. So hopefully everyone that goes in a store then will have their sheet of what colors were recommended so they could order it.

46:27That's so smart. Brilliant. Yeah. Any Sephora in your future? No. We have one retail account in the world and that's Liberty in London. Okay. And we have no plans and to do anything else. And I'm sure they're calling. I have turned, you know, all of them down because right now our business is growing and 90 % of our revenue comes from D to C. Yeah. So stores are 10%. Our head of retail thinks she can get the stores to 20%. Yeah. Wow. By the way, everyone, Bobby works with her family and her son happens to be, I kind of hate LinkedIn, but he's the only good person on LinkedIn. He seems to be really incredible.

47:09He's incredible. The marketing. He's phenomenal. First of all, my son, who was, you know, captain of the golf team, he was all about sports. He went to college to play golf. He became a strength and conditioning coach. Anything he does, he puts his mind to it. He was the best strength and conditioning coach. And then him and his then girlfriend at the time, now wife, took this mastermind courses. I used to tell them they were in a cult. They would go to these courses a couple times a year with the same people. And when he came out, he started doing growth, like digital growth. He started a freelance for us, and he just literally quadrupled the business.

47:50Wow. And then he became the CMO, and then he became the CEO. Wow. And it's quite something to watch the smartest guy in the room be your son. That's amazing. So who's the real boss? You or him? That is a good question. And if he was here, he would laugh and I would laugh. And, you know, it's really, we've worked really hard on our relationship, our work relationship. In the beginning, on Saturday morning, we would talk on the phone and he would quit every Saturday morning. and I just let him let him talk let him talk and I'm like no Cody I need you no Cody and so we've learned how to communicate you know he gets I know that he gets upset with me when I just say what's on my mind without thinking how I'm gonna say it so I've had a calm down a bit and you know figure out how to communicate with him yeah and we have a deal he I'm not allowed to say to him you don't have the experience and he's not allowed to say to me mom they don't do it like that anymore so those are our two things yeah those boundaries yeah yeah they're totally hot buttons yeah yeah that's great we need to ask about what's coming up next with jones road because again for the uninitiated in 1991 you created 10 bobby brown essentials the wardrobe of of lipsticks.

49:12They were named of what the colors look like. I see. They were as exciting as brown and beige and pink and orange. I mean, who gets a lipstick orange and calls it orange? My mother, I think, was the only one that really liked it. But anyways. For some reason, I thought the ruby was like a sheer red inspired by Carolyn Bissett, but maybe that's internet lore. I don't know. No, no, no. That is true. That is true. That's true. But they were named what the colors look like. That was always my thing. Okay, well, very practical names. So this month, we're very excited that you're introducing the Jones Road Classic Lip.

49:50Tell us about these. There's 12 colors based on our lip pencil formula and our lip pencil colors. And I also, in my head, knew that I'd be telling the story of launching the first lipsticks and people would, you know, kind of compare. They're different. They're a modern version of the classics, which is why we call them the classics. Right. Let us compare. Yeah. Can you pick one up, Jason? Tell us your favorite. Well, this is not the packaging, so I have to go look. Behind the scenes, everyone. This is nude pink, which is not my color. It's your color. So try this. Okay. I'm going to try it on my hand, first of all.

50:35This one is rosewood, which is a little stronger. Yeah. This is it. swatching beautiful this what oh that will look good on your carlene nice it was it actually kind of reminds me of a mac one i used to put it on your bottom oh can i do it oh yeah yeah i mean i'll leave these with live swatching yeah and just okay smack your lips and and tell me what it feels like well you have a lipstick on also i do it feels very creamy and it's comfortable It's comfortable. Yeah. It's this, it's very, well, first of all, I don't look good in red, so I'm not trying. But there is a beautiful red. And they're full pigment.

51:18Yeah, not sure. But they are, it's the weirdest thing. They're full pigment. When you put them on, they're not dense. And they stay on your lips, but they're not dry. I'm excited about them. Yeah. Very cool. And I think it's very apropos that you're going back to sort of. I love this color. it's you know an essential but they're not bobby brown essentials they're jones road essentials this is nude pink is that what you this is nude rose and i'm tawny nude okay i love that's very 90s we've all got our nudes everyone obsessed okay you're a makeup artist after all so we need to get a few makeup tips from you sarah from our instagram wants to know tips for covering dark circles without looking cakey yeah well that is a challenge but i think i have figured it out And I won't tell you about the two new concealers that'll be coming out, that full coverage concealers that don't look cakey.

52:14And I have very dry under eye area. Are we talking 2026 here? We're talking 2026. Any in 2020? No, nothing in 2025. 2026. Yeah. And there's one in 2027, which I'm fighting them to do it in 2026. Wow. Yeah. Because we have so many things on our pipeline. but you start with a touch of eye cream and then use our face pencils. Now we have face pencils that you can use to cover any redness, any blemish. You can use them all over your face, but you don't need to. They are made with a clear base. So when you put the pigment in them, they don't get all like gray and ashy. So when you cover a blemish, you don't see it when you your head to the side.

53:01And it's the same thing underneath. If you have dark circles, choose a neutralizer color first, either one that's pinky or peachy. I go pinky peach. I'm kind of in the middle. You guys would be more pinky. Deeper skin would be more peach. And then you put one on top of it that's one shade lighter than your foundation. And those two things together. and they're setting at all you can set with powder i don't because i don't need it but our face powders are like japanese finely milled powders that are tinted so it doesn't get crack or get in the lines okay and what's your favorite moisturizer for skin prep right now well i've been putting on first thing in the morning is right out of the tube is our sunscreen okay which kind Kind of has a weirdly blurring effect.

53:51I'm not the kind of market or company that says the word blurring. Right. But it kind of just makes things look a little better. And then I'll put the foundation on top or the Miracle Balm, depending if I want foundation or not. Right. Okay. And when my skin is dry, most of the time I use the light moisture cream. When it's really dry in the winter, we have something called Miracle Cream, which is you have to break the seal. It's cream and it's really nice. I need to try that. Yeah. I love that. What's one thing that nobody knows about you? You really think there's something left? Everyone knows I danced on stage with Flo Rida and Salt and Pepper.

54:34I don't know. Something that people don't know about me that I get up in the morning and many mornings I just open up a drawer and organize it because it makes me feel in control. Good one. That actually was one of my other questions for you, which was, what is your makeup drawer vanity look like? Is it organized chaos or is it everything has a place? Well, right now, everything has a place because I hired someone in my town who's an organizer. It was the greatest thing. Like I left with everything messy and I came home. It all organized. Dream. My problem is I'm trying to figure out what to do with.

55:11I have so much like gently used makeup that are my colors that I don't, you know, because every time I forget something, I grab it. And all of a sudden I've got like 16, you know, smoky brown eyeshadows. So I'm trying to figure out, who can I donate gently used makeup to? My friend taught me this. So she takes my old used makeup products. She got her husband to drive them to a morgue, to a, what do you call it, a mortician? Yeah. Right. And she donated them. And they want them. Well, I bet they want mine because they're natural looking. Actually, I've never told anyone this, but a woman came up to me at the Jones Road store in Chicago and she was a mortician because I have to tell you, every single person gets Miracle Balm.

56:00There you go. I said, I don't think I'm going to tell people that, but I just did. Yeah. What a good idea. It's actually brilliant. Well, thank you so much for being on the pod today. We learned so much. The time has flown by and we will have you again. Aw, thank you so much. I really enjoyed it. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening. You can find details on every product mentioned in today's episode, along with our exclusive promo codes on our blog at breakingbeautypodcast.com. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. Every episode will be delivered directly to your inbox so you won't miss a single thing.

56:39and get social with us. Let us know what you think of the episode. You can follow us on Instagram at Breaking Beauty Podcast. And did you know we also have a private Facebook group? Just search Breaking Beauty Podcast chat room. You can even leave us a voicemail at any time with questions or feedback at 1-844-227-0302. And don't forget to subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts fixed. Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, and Apple Podcasts, where you can show us some love by writing a review. See you next Wednesday.

57:38episode.