The Midlife Tune-Up: “Injectable Threads” VS. Fillers, WTF Is PRFM & More Reverse Aging Skin Secrets with Esthetician Shani Darden

25:03I've had, I've done a lot of, I did lasers in the past and my pigmentation got way worse and I went to someone really good. I just heat for me with like melting fat and pigmentation. I'm just very nervous about it. Still as much research as I've done. So I'm not saying that they don't work, but I think it's hard, especially if you don't have really fair skin. You just never know. I haven't tried any of the newer lasers. The one thing that I hear all the time, if I ask someone like they'll say, yeah, I've been doing this laser and I'll ask them like, do you notice a difference? And they're like, yeah.

25:43And that's always the answer. I'm like, That's not good enough for me to do that. Yeah. That's not that. Yeah, I didn't like. So that's why I get nervous. There's one laser, though, I have to think about what the name is. And I've heard great things about it. Everyone says they get amazing results, but it does also have heat. Jill and I did the XLV earlier this year. Laser Genesis. I actually did like it because it actually is supposed to help with rosacea. And how did. Oh, yes. Yes. Yeah. And so my skin, it definitely helped with pigmentation. I agree with that, though. For people that have rosacea, a couple doing a couple rounds of even IPL.

26:25Yeah. I've noticed a difference with the redness. Yeah. Because again, topically, there's very little you can do other than azelaic acid. Azelaic acid. Azelaic acid. Softwave. Oh, softwave. Oh, softwave. I have heard everyone that I know that has done that says that they really notice the difference. And I really want to try it. But it's really so expensive. Oh. Like so expensive. Really? Like$4 ,000. When you say super expensive, that makes me. It was like$4 ,000. And I think that was for me to get a discount. And I was like, I don't really want to test that out. And the doctor that I talked to said that you only need one treatment.

27:05Yeah, that's a little. And I think it's. heat and skin tightening everyone is what the idea is. I'm looking it up right now. It uses ultrasound technology to renew the skin via stimulation. And yeah, it uses ultrasound parallel beam technology to generate heat 1.5 millimeters below the skin surface. Okay. Interesting. That's the one that I've heard about though. Okay. Yeah. My patients in their 30s still have a little baby fat, says this dermatologist, but they want to look really defined. So he's giving them a more chiseled jawline. And it's also for people who are 50 plus, they say. Yeah, I want all of that.

27:45I'm 50 plus and I want a chiseled jawline immediately. I just want someone that I want to see them before. I want them to do the treatment. I want them to come back to me for real proof. Yes, right. I love the bar that you set because you've seen it all. And you could be so easily like giving every treatment at your spa, but you're not. No, no. Kind of reminds me of Dr. Dennis Gross. He just like, he's like, I know it works. It's just so true. And your name is on the door. You just watch over time. Like we've been doing it long enough. I mean, he's been doing it forever and you watch and you're like, here we are back here again.

28:24Because that's what works. But we're going to talk about all of this. So, yeah, I don't. A lot of it is just it's all gimmicky. Yeah. Everyone wants to take your money. Totally. Yeah. I want to talk about at-home treatments. So there's so many new fuzzy ingredients right now, like just, you know, peptides and growth factors and all of that. Retinol, though, is like you mentioned, just like tried and true, gold standard. You came up with yours like 10 years ago, the retinol reform. It's won so many awards. Now you have news. You're actually reformulating. Is that right? Yes. So I'm reformulating just because, I mean, every brand has a retinol.

29:04You've got to like keep up with everything. And so I just wanted to do something just as effective, but even more gentle. So I'm using a new encapsulated retinol. And then I just filled it with every kind of antioxidant just to take it to the next level as far as anti-aging. Right. But it was just kind of time. Yeah. It's not that I don't, you know, it's just like every brand now has a retinol. Yes. So it's something that I wanted to do. So I'm excited about it. He's getting a facelift. Yeah. Yeah. So what is the, tell us more about the encapsulated and how that works. So the encapsulated retinol, what that does is it means it's a slower release under the skin.

29:43And so you're still getting the same benefits, but it's just moving slower, which means it's going to be more gentle. Yeah. So I've never, listen, I love a prescription retinol. I absolutely do. Or retinoid. I love that because I've seen what it can do for people with acne and acne scarring from working at the dermatologist. But for most people using one every day or something that's not gentle and peeling all the time, like that's not fun. Like, yeah, you're just missing that. You're missing all of your pretty days. So I'm kind of like so I do like working with encapsulated retinol. So does it still have a bit of lactic acid in it?

30:23I haven't talked about that yet because I didn't want people to freak out, but it won't have lactic acid anymore. I was about to freak out on you. Yes, because it's going to stand alone. You know that people do not like it when you change your stuff. Yes. Girl, I know I talked about your retinol in January. We did a whole episode about the best esthetician skincare. And what I said about yours was that it's like you wake up glowy and it doesn't irritate you. You've got the short term and the long term. Yeah, you have the retinol and the lactic acid in there. Tell us more about that. Well, I put, okay, two things.

30:58One, I did put some other ingredients like prickly pear extract that's really brightening so it will give you that glow. Yes, lactic acid in general gives you an immediate glow. And that's why people love mine so much because they're like, they immediately think it worked in a day. I really wanted to separate them for many reasons, but the biggest is also because I already have my lactic acid serum. So it might be a different way of educating people, layering. And I love my lactic acid serum so much. Yeah, yeah. I love lactic acid as well. It just was kind of like where it went and I didn't want to not have my lactic acid anymore.

31:39Right. I tested this out for so long. Yeah. So it's not like a completely different. To be honest, I don't think that people would notice just using it would notice the difference. Right. It will be like over time. Right. So you're saying you can wear, you can use the retinol and the azelaic acid on the same night? Yes, but you need to know your skin because although azelaic acid is so gentle, for some people it could make them dry. But overall, very easy to layer. It would be azelaic and then retinol. But for somebody that has normal skin, that could catch up and all of a sudden they're very dry from that.

32:21Right. Or they go skiing and bust their barrier. They love to layer and do crazy stuff. Yeah. Uh-huh. Totally. 100%. what really is the difference between a prescription retinol and something that you have on the shelf at Sephora? So the difference is, is that a prescription retinoid is going to work faster than the over-the-counter. It's going to work much faster. But what that means is that you are going to have downtime. You are going to be peeling and irritated. And depending on the retinol or retinoid, depending on it, you could end up breaking out. So I think it's great to use a prescription retinoid if you are struggling with acne or you're very oily, you have very oily skin.

33:07But for anyone else, I think maybe using one a couple of times a week if you want to, along with an over-the-counter. But otherwise, to me, it doesn't really make sense, especially for people that have redness in their skin or they are getting a little older. I just find that they look even more red. So it's like finding that balance. Like I don't I don't use a I love Tazerac is one of my favorite prescriptions, prescription retinoids. And I'll use it like sometimes once a week. It's not I just don't want to go. I want to be pretty. You know what I mean? I don't want to like look all right. Like go through all that redness.

33:45It's not fun. But I know that people are very stuck on that for sure. Yeah. I think you just get to a certain age. Maybe you're like, I got to ratchet it up. Yeah. You know, like the overcounter is not cutting it. Yeah. So what do you like about that specific retinoid that you're... Tazerac? Yeah. So Tazerac, I'm pretty sure still is the strongest prescription retinol that you can get. I'm pretty sure that that hasn't changed. What I love about it is that I worked on so many people with acne. it just can really clear your acne if you just hang on there. And most people with really bad acne don't end up needing Accutane or anything like that.

34:26So worth it. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. And over time, if you stick with it, your skin will get used to it and you're still getting those same results, but without the dryness and irritation. Do you think it's a myth that retinoids make your skin thinner. Yes. They actually boost collagen. So it actually makes your skin thicker. Yeah. Yeah. Why do you think that myth persists? Because of the thinness. So when you are using a prescription and I when I worked on people at Dr. B's office, everyone was on some sort of retinoid and the skin can tear so easily when you're working on them because they're so sensitive.

35:07And so I really think that that's why people came up with that, like, like that their skin would just peel that it's not that at all. It's just, it's so sensitive. You're using such a strong prescription. Right. So, but actually over time it's building the collagen and therefore you're, if we're like beauty editors thinking of that skin graft 3D, it's actually the stratum cornea or whatever epidermis is getting like a smidge thicker. It's a good thing. And that's why I always say to people, you don't need to go off that. Yeah. If it's working for you. Now, I want to ask you because some brands, you mentioned there's so many with retinol, some brands have this laddering system, right?

35:49Where it's like you start low and then you work your way up is the idea. You've chosen not to put the level of active in your retinol reform. So tell us about that. I think I chose to not in the very beginning out of just like not really thinking it through. But in my new one, it will say it. Oh, it will. And I do think that that's important for me. I think it's listen. A lot of people will say that you don't need to have that on there. But I just think that it's important to be transparent. Right. I really think that that's important. And I the reason why you need to be transparent is because this goes with vitamin C and with retinol, they degrade.

36:33And so if you're not being transparent, the people buying it don't really know. Right. Yeah. Right. So what is the level? One percent. OK, that's one percent. I also find like people are just getting savvier and they are probably Googling that retinol one percent or whatever to like find one that they want to use. you know well people I think people for them they think that it's important to know the strength for me it's important to know what's in there something that every brand says when they don't want to give up their percentage for whatever the reason they'll say it's like a proprietary blend yeah and that's yeah you don't want to hear that because what is that like I want to know and I think part of the reason why some people will say that it doesn't matter is because Because you can get a 1 % retinol that can be very irritating and irritate your skin and then one that doesn't.

37:27And it's what other ingredients you have in that formula. So I think it's to not scare people because I've used recently, I passed all of the retinols at Sephora. And I recently used one and it dried me out so bad and it was a 1%. Yeah. So I think it just like depends. Right. And then, of course, there's all the different types of like. retinaldehydes and all of that. So it's like you have to be a math friggin metition. Yeah. Yeah. And when you like 0.1 of this is equivalent to one of that. I mean, it's very tricky. And like I said, there's so many different over the counters, but I definitely would choose over the counter, even though I love prescription.

38:07Yeah. I do. And there's so many new, even newer prescriptions that I don't even know. Because when I started, I worked mostly with Retin-A, Diffrin which is now over the counter yeah it's crazy it is kind of crazy I gave myself contact dermatitis with Diffrin not long ago I put it on here and I had a red neck up here was all red what's the percentage? I think it's 1 % it's Adapalene gel over the counter not at Target I never loved it but it's really great it works yeah what's great about it is that it's so affordable so for someone that needs can't go to a derm that you can say yeah it's just like very it's very strong yeah it really is

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41:08you tried all the retinols at Sephora tell me what was no no no no I will not do that but I have tried a lot of them you know you know what I'll say that and it's it I was really impressed with using them so many of them is that I was really impressed that I made such a good product because yes there's so many out there and I wasn't trying them for a while and I was kind of like you know like but I really it's a good it's a good one especially for the percentage it is and what it does it's a good one but I've I've found a lot of them pretty drying yes for sure so yeah I'd like to ask you next about just getting on a routine like say somebody's listening they're like okay fine you've convinced me I'm going to do retinol what adjustments do they have to make or like getting on a routine that kind of makes sense when you're introducing retinol?

42:02So it depends on what type of retinol you're using. But if no matter what, you always want to start with once a week and add a day each week, no matter if you've been using Tazerac and then you start using mine. Oh, interesting. Still always do it because first of all, adding in a new active can always freak out your skin. But with retinol, you know, if you jump into any of them, you can get those little small, like it's almost like a rash. And so you have to be careful. I always tell people that over and over again, this is how you have to do it. Now, if you are using a prescription, a dermatologist would just have you jump in.

42:38My thing is, is I think jumping in is great if you can handle it. But usually, especially for a teen, they will start, they'll jump in and they'll break out, they'll get irritated and they'll stop using it. So I also think that you should start off slowly with a prescription and start with maybe two times a week and then build up slowly. Yeah, it's not going to work as fast, but you're going to get there as soon as you can get there. And what cleanser are you using? Always a gentle cleanser. Always a gentle cleanser. Yeah, that's the best way always to introduce a retinol for sure. And obviously there's the sandwich method or whatever it's called where you can use a moisturizer before and then a moisturizer after.

43:20and Dr. Benitez used to do that all the time with prescription retinols. Yeah. And I mean, you can do it with over the counter. You're just kind of cutting the strength. Right, right, right. Are there any new rules of retinol these days? You want to make sure if you're using a retinol around your eyes that you know that that formula has tested it. And you can, listen, using a retinol around your eyes, always you have to be careful because the area is so thin. The skin is so thin. But I formulated mine so that you can. But that doesn't mean everyone can. Right. Yeah. But using a prescription around your eyes, what would happen is you would dry them out so badly that you would be so dry that you look like you have more wrinkles and then you would freak out.

44:07Yeah. I kind of like this idea of because when I've used retinol, like I don't really do the sandwich where it's over moisturizer. It feels like a bit of overkill, but maybe with an eye cream, that could be a better idea versus just like putting it right around your eye. Maybe that. Oh, to mix it. You want the retinol in the eye cream. Or no, put it over top of the eye cream. Yes, absolutely. Right? Yeah, but you could, I mean, listen, I love my eye cream, but, and that's wonderful and I want everyone to do that, but you also could just put a moisturizer because you're getting the strength. Oh, yeah.

44:42You know what I mean? Around your eye. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you're getting the strength of it. I mean, retinol is what's going to keep away the fine lines and wrinkles. Yes, definitely. Are there any considerations that somebody should make if they're either like super fair on the Fitzpatrick scale or like a five or a six when it comes to the rules around retinol? I would just say if you're really fair, you really need to be careful about being out in the sun. You always have to be careful about it, but like even more so if you're using a retinol and you go out in the sun the next day, even if you have sunscreen on, I think that that could be an issue you could burn.

45:21And is there a sunscreen that you're always recommending? I always, I switch them up, but I've always been like a super goop. Really? Yeah, forever and ever. It's like my, it's what I use unless I'm using a tinted. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I also have a control correctives. They're much smaller brand, but they have a oil-free SPF that I really love for people with acne prone skin. But overall, yes, super good. All right. Super good. Yeah. How do you know if you sort of like plateaued or will you all, if you get on this routine, your retinols, you're crushing it, you get past the uglies. Like, does it, your skin just always get better or is it kind of like plateauing?

46:03So I think that your skin gets used to it, but I don't think it means that it's not working anymore. Your skin has just gotten used to it. I've been using my retinol forever and I've never, I mean, I try other ones, but I'm still getting great results using mine. So I don't think that, I think that people think that and I think they're like, oh, now I've got to go stronger. But you can always try and add another one in to see if the results are better for you, but it's not necessarily not working. Yeah. Do you have any real world examples? Because you're seeing skin all the time of someone who has been using retinol like since 25 and now they're like 45.

46:42And is there is their skin that much better? Oh, yeah. Who has never touched it? So that's why I fell in love with retinols is because when I worked for the derm, there were two estheticians there and one esthetician I had. I mean, she had to be, I don't even know, maybe 60s, but I just she had the most perfect skin ever. But her neck, she had forgotten to use. Like you could see her age. And I just died over her. Like her skin was just like flawless. Like uniform, flawless. And she was like, I've been using retinol since I was in my 20s. Yeah. So I think it's just, it makes such a difference.

47:23That and staying out of the sun, really. Yeah. And our necks are more sensitive, right? So is there a special, what's the rule for that? I would just use it less often or that's where I would use a moisturizer before because it really does catch up to you all of a sudden. And then your neck is very red and very irritated. Is there an ideal type of moisturizer that's like not too thick, kind of jives well? I mean, I would say mine because it's oil-free. But just nothing, you don't need anything too heavy because remember, it's basically diluting the retinol. It's like putting a buffer. So oil-free is a good option?

48:02I would do it as a light moisturizer to start. Great, like a lotion maybe. If you were using a really thick moisturizer, I mean, you might as well not use the retinol. Okay. And when are you using this? Nighttime only? Nighttime. Nighttime only. Always. It's interesting. I started to hear because we know your skin gets sensitive, but have you heard that some like people are starting to say it's actually a myth and you can use retinol during the day? I have heard this. It's the dumbest thing ever. There's no part of that that makes any sense. And you should test it out because I've seen it. I've seen people.

48:38So I've seen my husband's done it before I had given him. He's very fair. And I had I told him he needed to start using retinol and went out the next day without sunscreen because he for sure doesn't wear it. And his skin, I've seen it so many times. It just looked like it was all like broken capillaries. Wow. Yeah. No, I don't even know why people who said that. And I feel like it's some doctors I've read. I do think that they're trying to reference some, I don't have it at the tip of my tongue, but they're trying to reference like some kind of studies where they're like, it's actually. I think they just needed something to talk about on TikTok.

49:18I don't know, potentially. Ashley, okay. One more question for you about aging in reverse. What are a few of the crucial Forever 50 items on your top shelf, some of your products that are essential and then some other ones too? So mine, I can't live without my retinol or a triple acid signature peel. And those are must-haves. And then I would say still my favorite vitamin C is ProHeal by Is Clinical. It's a 15%. I like a nice 15%. Okay. I think it's really great. There's so many different vitamin Cs now, but this is, I always go back to it. Those tried and true ones, right? Yeah, it really is.

50:02So good. I would say those are all the things that I need to be young, other than all the other things that I've injected and told you about. One thing we get asked about a lot, and you may have an answer, you may not, but the red light therapy. So you're for that, the red LED therapy. I think you just have to at home. You have to do it. Consistency. You have like the Rolls Royce at your office. I remember first time I saw it in person, it's like$2 ,000, guys. Yeah. So this is another one of those things that people are saying are like, it's funny. I was just going to say to you that we've been beauty editors for like 20 years.

50:36And like from day one, when I started writing about beauty, it was like retinol, vitamin C, retinol, vitamin C, SPF. Like that's all you really need. Right. All the bullshit that's come out in the 20 years since, like they're nice to have. They're nice to have. But those are the things that are like the true keep you young. Right. But more and more people are trying to convince me that red light therapy, LED is like the the other thing. It is. Do you think it's that? I think it's that. And I think you have to have it has to be to a certain strength for it to work. and the more lights that you have, the better.

51:17But I think for me, and this is tricky, I think it's so important that it's FDA cleared only so that you know that it actually has those claims. Like I use LightStem at the office. They also have a handheld as well. They were one of the first to get FDA cleared. And like then the one that I collabed on, which is Desi, even though I say it wrong. But I, you know, they also are, were FDA cleared and went through, like, I think you have to, you have to know that. I think that that's important. And there's so many you can get on Amazon. Right. And you just have no idea. Yeah. And I think it's like any routine or anything that it's consistency.

52:03You do it every day for sure for you. For sure. If you don't, it's definitely not an overnight. You will see nothing. I will say, though, when we're talking about other ingredients, and I know we talk kind of ad nauseum, Carleen, about exosomes, but when I did get the contact dermatitis from Differin, I did use the plated serum and it pretty much disappeared overnight. I know that's what I've heard. I have been on every, I have to tell you as far as exosomes go, I'm so into it. I've actually had, I had them injected under my eyes. I just need to know more about I need to understand more about it in skincare products yes I don't I still as much as I've talked to them I I literally after every conversation I say I don't I don't get how that you can't have it like it's such a big deal when you get them injected here where they can't actually say I think they can't say exosomes right they say some other so it's like I don't understand it California is its own beast right so I think it's I'm still I'm not there yet but I will tell you that plated serum is a miracle.

53:08I have a friend that just had a facelift and she said, I can't even tell you how fast it healed because I was doing red light and plated. By the way, we did interview one of the... We interviewed like, I believe the CEO. Yeah. So actually, you can listen to that if you want. I'm going to listen to that. But I still couldn't explain it to you in a nutshell. They are human derived, but it is, it's no humans were harmed in the process and then they're replicated. She will tell you that they get it from the bank. I mean, but back in the day, like, Biola Junk Recherichman, like, you know, like the goat f***ing placenta and all that stuff.

53:44It's like, but that s*** works, but it's weird. No, no, I get it. It does work. It's going to keep us young. I mean, this is, yeah, the 50, the tune-up, you know? This is the tune-up. And 10 years of your products. That's so exciting. We got the sneak peek. I love it. Thank you, Shawnee, for coming back. Oh my God, no. Thank you for having me. I really wanted to come back. Thank you. This is so fun. Thank you. Always. Too much to talk about. Thanks for listening. You can find details on every product mentioned in today's episode, along with our exclusive promo codes on our blog at BreakingBeautyPodcast.com.

54:20While you're there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. Every episode will be delivered directly to your inbox so you won't miss a single thing. And get social with us. Let us know what you think of the episode. You can follow us on Instagram at Breaking Beauty Podcast. And did you know we also have a private Facebook group? Just search Breaking Beauty Podcast chat room. You can even leave us a voicemail at any time with questions or feedback at 1-844-227-0302. And don't forget to subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast fix. Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, and Apple Podcasts, where you can show us some love by writing a review.

54:56See you next Wednesday.

55:14Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.