The New SPF Filter Is Here! Plus: Decoding Mineral Sunscreen Labels & The Truth About Ultra Violette’s “Sunscreen Gate” with Co-Founder Ava Matthews

25:39Yeah. And it, you know, it can be better tolerated for some skin types who are traditionally sensitive or even allergic, although a chemical UV filter allergy is quite rare, but sensitive to those older chemical filters. And it also, it's newer, So it can create some beautiful textures as well. There's just a better variety of formats for that. Right. A formula that includes Bema Trisanol. So there's a whole world of possibilities here. There's a whole world. And you were the first, Ultraviolet is the first to bring a product with BEMT to market under the new... I don't know that we'll... Yeah, I've heard that there's another company that, so we might kind of be...

26:24Neck and neck. Neck and neck. Yes. But there's this, I mean, I'm sure there's lots of brands working. I don't know their timelines. But you're one of the first. We'll be definitely the first in Sephora. Oh, OK. OK. Yeah. Exciting. Yeah. Now, people hear chemical SPF. They get nervous if they're a hemophobe or whatever that word is. They hear mineral and they might picture there's a white cast. So what does combining BEMT with zinc offer people? so i mean look high percentages of zinc or titanium dioxide is gone it's going to leave a white cast so it's a they start as white powders there's kind of no there's some great innovation and i think that i'm hopeful that that will get better in zinc but that's just the current reality so we we wanted to formulate a product so our first product with beometrisanol block is for acne prone skin so we wanted to kind of get the best of both worlds you know Often acne-prone skin, people with acne-prone or congested skin are recommended mineral sunscreen for whatever reason, rightly or wrongly.

27:30But, you know, there are some great benefits in working with zinc. It's an astringent. We've kind of made unblock our most matte formula in terms of matte finish. This is a lab sample, so it's not the final packaging, but you can see. I don't know. I love it. Everybody that's listening and not watching, it's in one of those airless pumps that you can like portion out the sunscreen almost on the top. In a jar. In a jar. So you like pump and distribute and it's like a tinted. Yeah, it's a tint. It leaves a really beautiful matte finish. You know, zinc, as I said, is an astringent, so it helps kind of with that dry down.

28:03And the Bemetris Nol is a lightweight, super efficient UV filter that kind of helps give that kind of light, you know, texture. And this is an oil in water formulation. so you know we've worked really hard to make sure the waxes we're using for the film forming the you know the other ingredients are not going to clog your skin contribute to break out and yeah this does leave a very a very matte finish which we know that can be important for people with oily or acne I tried the texture last night I loved it I think this is going to be one of my new faves because it is also tinted yes so that's very helpful if you just like want to put it on and you're, you know, just running out the door or what have you.

28:42Yeah. I've done that before with ultraviolet, some of your tinted formulas. That's what I love about them in the summer is sometimes I'm fair. So I feel like I can get away with just wearing that. And I do find a lot of your textures make for great makeup primers. That's one of the reasons that I'm a big fan of ultraviolet. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. We work really hard at that because a sunscreen is not a product that you use in isolation and that's how they've been historically formulated. We have always worked with, you know, tried to work with as many female chemists as we can because they get the amount of product that women are wearing on their face.

29:19They're going to do a wear test. Exactly right. And we obviously do significant wear tests, but you know, the formulators need to understand what's happening in a routine. And that was kind of the problem. Sunscreens were being formulated in isolation, not in the context of a routine. Okay, the new, new innovation with BEMT, everyone, it is in a green pump package like we talked about. And it's specifically for acne skin. So has this been something that you've been thinking about for a while or have a lot of your customers come to you and say like, because people with acne, they're probably the most reluctant to use SPF because they feel like their pores will get clogged or they just, they have their skincare, they know and trust and they don't want to mess with it.

30:03They don't want to put anything else on. So tell me about creating like an acne safe sunscreen and what the sort of hurdles might've been or challenges. Yeah. So you're exactly right, Jill. Acne prone skin or breakout prone skin are the least likely consumer to wear SPF every day for the reasons you said. It's going to break them out. It's another thing on their skin. they've got their routine that doesn't break them out so it's very they're very hesitant to introduce new products especially a product that has been known to cause breakouts or whatever when it's not the right one for your skin so we we knew that and we wanted to develop a product specifically for that consumer and it was kind of like do we go lightweight gel do we go something more matte it was kind of that those that was the the first place we started and we decided you know obviously with Bermatrizonol coming that we would probably be able to do something that was zinc and Bermatrizonol and suit, you know, tailored towards the customer who A, doesn't want to feel like there's anything on their skin and B, is maybe a bit more oil prone and wants a more matte finish.

31:07Yeah, it's very weightless. Yes. I will say. I think that's part of it as well when you're acne prone, you don't want to feel stuff on your skin for some of it. So it did take a while. This is a global launch. So we are launching this globally. And when you're looking, so sunscreen has to form a film on the skin for it to work. And a lot of, you need some waxes. Sometimes you need waxes and those can traditionally be quite heavy on the skin as well. So we really pulled apart every part, every ingredient or part of a formulation to think, okay, what is going to give the consumer the end benefit that they expect and need?

31:44And, you know, are we, you know, this, as I said before, it's an oil in water. So it's kind of this lighter weight, it's not a water and oil. So it's a lighter weight formulation. The skincare benefits we've got in there is Canadian Willow Herb and Bix Active, which can help with redness, can help with, you know, minimizing the appearance of pores, helping to control oil flow and overall just kind of help with congestion in the skin. So we kind of have tailored the skincare actives in the formula for this customer as well. And we've done non-comedogenic testing, non-acnogenic testing, as well as tested on, we've done a big panel test of people with acne.

32:23So yeah, it is, as I said, we're kind of trying to solve pain points. And this was definitely one that we hadn't really felt like we'd done effectively in the range at this point. And I'm so curious why it is in this airless pump. Like it's very different than all your other packages. Well, so this is kind of, I guess, it's kind of, I always say it's like hiding the vegetables in the bolognese for your kids. Like we're trying to make these products look and feel more like skincare. something that you wear every day. So components are chosen specifically for these reasons. You know, they look like your skincare, but also originally we kind of, the formula was quite moussey and the fact that it's an airless pump helps contribute to that moussiness.

33:04And now it's more of a light, like we call it an airy cream and the actual airlessness and pump helps make it feel like lighter and airy. Okay. So it's not about like protecting the ingredients necessarily. It's more about the texture and the delivery system. But it is airless. So there's that too. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Did you test it as a makeup primer? Always. Yes. Always. That's always a part of the process. I mean, there's no clinical. I mean, there are just, but like as a part of our panel testing, that is part of it. Yeah. I appreciate that about your brand because it doesn't just stop with the sunscreen, right?

33:41You have to like go about the rest of your routine. Exactly right. And if it's peeling, you know, the protection's impacted and, you know, it's the film's kind of coming apart.

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37:24I want to ask you because a lot of times, like you said earlier, certain people get recommended mineral sunscreen. So I'm one of those people, like if you have sensitive skin, if you have rosacea, there can be various different reasons for that. Last year you launched an SPF. I mentioned it one of our summer episodes. It was the Ultraviolet Future Screen SPF 50 mineral fragrance-free facial sunscreen serum. I appreciate that it's fragrance-free as well for sensitive skin. So it's a mineral sunscreen with 20 % zinc oxide. It also contains ethyl hexyl methoxychrylene and that's considered a chemical sunscreen booster, right?

38:07Like it helps to boost the formula of the mineral filter, right? Yeah. So I'm just wondering like how So is it still considered a mineral sunscreen then? Because if you're being recommended mineral specifically, but then there is a chemical booster in it, it's more like a hybrid, right? Yeah, I guess. And look, it's all in the marketing of it. You know, we would never say, you know, for a product that contained a booster, 100 % mineral sunscreen. Like it is a, there's a lot of zinc in it. As you said, there's 20%. So it is largely a mineral sunscreen. And, yeah, I guess I think, you know, a lot of consumers have taken issue with how brands are marketing their sunscreens as only mineral.

38:58But, yeah, there are these what you've called chemical boosters. And they're not considered UV filters. They're not regulated like UV filters. So they have other benefits other than just to add, to help kind of boost protection, I suppose. But you don't have to, I guess. Disclose. They're on an ingredient list, but you don't have to. and we're very transparent about them containing these boosters, most of the mineral sunscreens that you see in the market would contain either one or both of the chemical sunscreen boosters because it's twofold. There's the protection element and then there's the white cast element.

39:32So you could release a mineral sunscreen that contained 5 % to 10 % zinc and that is not going to give you much protection. And then you kind of top it up with these boosters and therefore you're using less zinc. It's not going to give you as much of a white cast. So I think brands are trying to solve problems by including these boosters, you know, genuine problems. Consumers with deeper skin tones do want to wear mineral sunscreens as well for the reasons that you mentioned, Carlene. You know, inflammatory skin conditions. They like the finish. They like the feel. But historically, they've been unable to because zinc, when used at high percentages, is going to leave a white cast.

40:12So I think it's solving problems, it sounds like, but it's also can be confusing some consumers. Yeah. Right. Like I feel so I feel like the takeaway maybe is that if you want 100 percent mineral sunscreen, you have to look for one that says 100 percent mineral sunscreen on the label. Yes. Or know the names of the boosters. There's two that are used and look for them in an ingredients list, which the consumer who does want 100 percent mineral sunscreen knows to look for. And sometimes it's like, oh, I've got an allergy to chemical UV filters and I need to wear a zinc. And sometimes it's how the chemical sunscreens that they've been wearing before have been formulated.

40:53It's not necessarily the filters. Right. As I said before, very rarely do people actually have an allergy to UV. Yeah. But I think the takeaway here for our listeners is the newer generations of mineral sunscreens tend to inherently be hybrids now so that they can suit all skin tones. So if you want 100 % mineral sunscreen, you have to look for one that specifically says that on the label. Correct. Otherwise, you can assume that it probably is going to be a hybrid. Most likely. And we've got a product coming out in September that is 100 % mineral. Utilizes only zinc oxide as the filter. In America?

41:32Yes. Okay, what's that one called? It's called Velvet. Velvet. Okay, great. And that's coming out when? September. Perfect. And it's suited. we've created for people with sensitive skin and exactly there's multiple reasons why you might want to wear a mineral sunscreen preference the finish on the skin yeah many reasons yeah exactly so and that you know our objective as a brand is to create i guess a number of options for the consumer to be able to choose something for everyone exactly right because we know it's like skincare not you know a serum it's not going to suit everyone a moisturizer is not going to because sunscreen is not going to suit everyone.

42:08So we try and provide as many options. Find the one that you love. That's the best one. That's what they say. Exactly. So Ava, since you're here, I'm so glad we get to chat with you about this because last year you voluntarily recalled Lean Screen and Velvet Screen Mineral Sunscreen after Choice, which is the Australian Consumer Testing Group, everybody. It found that it didn't necessarily meet the SPF claims that were on the label. And there were other brands that were also tested. And this made major headlines like around the world. So walk us through what happened there. So Lean and Velvet is one product.

42:45It just had a different name. Understood. It had a different name in America. And that's what this product is replacing. So yes, we had Choice was an Australian consumer group. They tested a bunch of sunscreens, the majority of which failed in their testing. we had two SPF reports, actually three, sorry, we did have three reports that with a result of over 60. And so - One six or 60? Six zero. Okay. Six zero. So we were obviously quite shocked when we saw the choice results because it was completely different to what we held in our hands. And to that point, we had fulfilled all of our regulatory duty by holding those test reports and had done the testing, obviously.

43:29So when we saw the results from Choice, we immediately went to test again and look at every single batch on the market to see if there were stability issues because that could contribute to a number that was much lower than what was listed on the label. And we saw no issues at that time. So at that point, we began, you know, there's known variability in SPF testing because it's a human assessment of erythema, which is redness on skin. So basically they burn people to get a sense of how strong the protection is on a product as a part of it. That's just the global standard for SBF testing. So we immediately went to test at other facilities.

44:11And, you know, by the beginning or, you know, early August, we were getting the results back and they were kind of coming in all over the place. And at that point, we knew that regardless of what the actual protection of this product was, we couldn't, we were not going to keep it on the market. Too much variability. Absolutely. As I said, there's a known variability, but the variability we were seeing was not normal. And at the same time, we were testing everything, every single product in our range at multiple labs because we thought, oh, God, you know, if this has happened with one product, it's going to happen, you know, there are other products.

44:45And, you know, no other products were impacted. We were getting a lot, you know, we were getting consistency with the rest of the range that was reassuring to us. And we thought, okay, this is an anomaly. We need to pull this product straight away. So we then conducted a voluntary global recall of this product, which is lean screen in most markets and called velvet in the US. We complied again with the FDA, with the TGA, with Health Canada, with all of those and worked very closely with them and issued refunds to every single consumer that had purchased the product, whether it was through us or through our retailers.

45:22So it was, you know, a big, it was called Sunscreen Gate. It was a huge scandal. We kind of ended up, you know, being the face of Sunscreen Gate. And I think, you know, we have a motto, we have a couple of values at Ultraviolet that we really, we live by. One is when we know better, we do better. And that is in science, things get, things change all the time. So that was something that we've kind of lived as a value of the brand and we now know better. And, you know, our approach now to sunscreen testing is sunscreen, what's on the label should not just be, and this is our approach, not just be the result of one test report on 10 people.

46:01we are now looking at multiple data points whether we're doing a series of in vitro which is in lab tests as a pre-screen and then doing multiple in vivo which is on people tests from different labs we are then getting someone externally whose job it is to audit SPF testing reports uh to do that on our test reports and then at the end you know complete a what we call a dossier on each product So for Velvet Screen, which is launching in September. So this is like new and improved version? Yes, new and improved, our own formulation. We, you know, now own the IP for this product, which we didn't for the other one.

46:42I see. Everything else in the range we own the IP for. There were eight data points that we were looking at to inform the SBF 40 labeling. We actually got a lot of results over 50, but out of an abundance of caution, we labeled it on the lower side. just because we know that there is variability. It was a very complex issue. There was a lot of complexity to it. There was a lot going on. And, you know, we just had to move forward and take, we wanted to take a real leadership position in the category because we know it has impacted, you know, the consumer's faith and trust in sunscreen. and it was really important for us to be able to kind of show up in a leadership position and share as much knowledge as we could both with the consumer and be as transparent as we can with the consumer and with the industry because there are a lot of lessons to be learned and we hope, you know, by us kind of sharing this that other brands can learn as well.

47:48Yeah, and I think what you were alluding there too is like now you own the IP. So previously when you first started, it was, that was like a white label formula, right? Correct. And then now it's just - Meaning that a third party lab created it? Yeah. Yes. And you approved it. You're a fledgling brand coming up. Not everybody has a chemistry lab in their kitchen, you know, so you have to. Yeah, and that's kind of the messy middle, right? And then you're kind of relying on their testing and all of that. Yeah. And then as you grow, you can own your own IP and start from scratch and know exactly every single process along the way.

48:30So I love that. So now all of the products within Ultraviolet are 100%. You own the IP and they're fully backed by all of these different data points. For all of our facial points. And for the record, I used the original, the entire thing. I emptied it and I never got burnt. So I don't know what the test showed, but I didn't. Just from a real life point of view, I didn't. Yeah. And, you know, there's also an element of pharmacovigilance with SBF, you know, owning it. It's a requirement legally. And, you know, we have to log every time someone says we get sunburned. Yes. There's a reaction. We log it.

49:11Yeah. And you've sometimes submitted to the regulatory body. So that is also a part of, and we didn't. The accountability. Yeah, we hadn't seen, you know, any instances of sunburn with that product. Oh, interesting. And, you know, at the end of the day, as you said, yes, this was one of, at the time, we were already reformulating the product to own the IP of it and have our own version of it. We started the brand and we did white label some of the products. And then, as you said, we grew and became more profitable. We can put all of that money into formulating our own products. It was very expensive in the testing and the development.

49:48And this was one that we had started formulating but hadn't obviously completed by the time Choice came out with their test. But the formula was actually on the market under 20 other brands as well. So they all subsequently, we were the first to recall and they all subsequently either voluntarily recalled themselves or were forced to by the TGA. So the takeaway here is now Ultraviolet owns all of their sunscreens. We don't make them in-house because we still have to make them with a manufacturer. Again, it's very strict to make it effectively a drug. So we formulate, we make the formulation with a chemist.

50:25We've got internal chemists. We work with external and we own. Own it is a better way to say. And we're involved in everything from choosing the raw materials to choosing the zinc to choosing the ingredient manufacturer that we work with for specific filters or film formers, emulsifiers, all of those products. We are in control of the entire process. And then from a manufacturing point of view, you know, there are very few TGA licensed facilities that can make sunscreens in Australia. And we, you know, we work with the best of the best. And then the other takeaway is that, you know, we own the IP, but also every single product in our range has been tested multiple times in multiple different facilities and has had someone look over all those SPF reports and point out, you know, are there any anomalies or that they're absolutely, that they're fine and that the protection on the bottle is correct in terms of what they've been able to review.

51:18So that is the other takeaway that, you know, you can trust us. I think going through something like this as a brand and as a business, you're not taking any, not that we were taking any risks ever, but you are like tripling, triple checking. Yes, yes. The T's are crossed, the I's are dotted and then some. Yes. And they already were, as I said, but, you know, and then some yeah absolutely well I honestly appreciate you addressing it because I think you're right getting in front of it being like we did this now we're moving forward we're doing this this is how we're going to be transparent with everything I think that is the only way it is you know and trust in this category specifically is so important yeah and ultimately we just want the consumer to know that they can trust their sunscreens and they should wear on screen.

52:11Yeah. That's the end game here. Right. Absolutely. And just switching gears a bit, we want to know about your personal routine, because that is one of the great things about ultraviolet is like how you really consider the whole routine. So how do you layer? First of all, what's your favorite one? How do you layer it? What makeup do you primarily put on? If any, let's hear it. Okay. Well, you know, you've just asked a founder what their favorite child is. I do wear most of them for different reasons. I wore velvet screen, one of the lab samples after I'd had crazy CO2 laser. Oh. Because it was the only thing my skin could tolerate.

52:49And you have to be obviously super safe. Yeah. That's fully ablative. Yes. I had a very light version. Okay. And I didn't want to go too crazy. So I wore that. And then for the day-to-day, I'm probably wearing something with a bit more glow because I love glow. Today, I'm wearing Vave. This is another lab sample. This is a Bevan Fisnol. This is launching early next year. Scoop, everybody. I don't know if you can see. We're getting scoop here. Yeah. Like a milky sunscreen, everyone. Yeah, like a milky toner. Ooh. SPF, like goes straight into the skin. Anyway. Sunmilk, I'm into it. Yeah. What is this one called that's coming up?

53:25Fave. Like your fave, your favorite sunscreen. Yeah, I'm wearing that. It provides a great grip for makeup and just helps kind of everything adhere almost to your face. Plus, it's so lightweight. It feels like nothing. You know, I'm in New York. It's the middle of summer. It's warm outside. I do like to wear quite a bit of skincare. Yeah. But I don't like to feel like there's a lot of stuff on my skin. And I obviously can't have it peeled. So that's what I've been wearing a lot recently as well. Because it doesn't give you that kind of glowy, luminizing glow. It kind of gives you that glassy glow.

54:00Right. And this is coming out in January? Jan, yeah. Okay. Around the world. It's already out in Australia, UK, Canada. Okay. Okay. And then it's coming to America. Coming to America in January. Now, do you put this under your moisturizer? So, sorry, yes. So my routine, I will do a serum. I'll do a moisturizer. Then this is the last step. Last step. Before makeup. Got it. I don't need a primer because this does the job for me with all of our products. It's kind of like, do we need primers anymore anyway? Maybe at night. I don't wear a primer. And then I'm doing something. We're working on some skin tints.

54:37So I'm kind of testing those. Are you wearing that today? Yes. Your skin looks insane. Oh, thank you. Yeah. I was curious what that was. Yeah, I am. We're working on that maybe for 2028. And then I'm just doing like a bit. I'm a huge blush gal. A bit of bronzer. Yeah. Blush and then whatever. But yes, the skincare part is the most time consuming part of my morning. So something like this for everybody, if you're not watching, it's almost like fluid drops. Do you mix that in your moisturizer? It's like road blazing milk. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Would you ever mix your SPF drops, as it were, into your moisturizer?

55:13What's your take on that? No, you shouldn't mix sunscreens because it will destabilize. And yeah, it disrupts the foam. But it's so tempting, Eva. It is tempting. But you know what? If you want to do that, if you want to mix something into your moisturizer, just make sure you're wearing sunscreen over the top. Or wear a layer of sunscreen and then do some mixing. Like you could do, you know, some mixing into your foundation. I see. After you've got that. The first layer going. The first layer. Yes. And I will mix after I've got the first layer. We've got in Australia, we've got these in the UK, we've got these bronzing drops.

55:43And I often will mix them into a tint just to deepen it. Not necessarily for the SPF, although it's nice to have some extra iron oxide, especially if you're pigmentation or melasma prone. But yeah, just for the warmth and the color. Yeah. I feel like that's the perfect way to transition into fall because truly sunscreen is a year round thing. It is. I think that's the beauty of this line is like being able to adjust. And have a wardrobe of sorts. Yeah. And I like that you're kind of dipping into these skincare trends, as it were, like the toning milks and all of that, because we want to, that's what we're actually using.

56:24And you're kind of like echoing that with SPF. And therefore it feels like familiar and therefore people will be more apt to use it. And of course the packaging is always on the next level. So yes, we need a crystal embellished version of everything. Yeah, we need the bedazzles. I don't have it with you, but I've got a fully bedazzled preen screen, which is a mist. Oh, yes. Over makeup mist. We've also got the over makeup mist, which because a lot of people, you know, you need to reapply sunscreen. And yeah, it helps you do that quite easy. Yeah. Well, thank you for joining us and sharing all this news with us.

57:03I feel like we got so many good scoops as well. And next time it has to be in Australia. Oh, for sure. Absolutely. We will come there. We will slip, slap, slop, wear our hat to play, all of the things. Don't you worry. We'll take care of you. Yes. Well, thank you so much for having me. Thank you. It was so great to be here. Thanks for listening. You can find details on every product mentioned in today's episode, along with our exclusive promo codes on our blog at breakingbeautypodcast.com. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. Every episode will be delivered directly to your inbox so you won't miss a single thing.

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58:24Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.