The Ultimate Sensitive Skin Girls’ Guide: Transitioning to a Winter Skincare Routine, “Barrier Bulking” and The Ingredients That *Really* Make a Difference with First Aid Beauty’s Jenna Haley

0:00The following podcast is a dear media production attention New York City based listeners Carlene and I are hosting a live podcast event. It's coming up so soon. It's on Monday, December 9th. It's in the evening in Soho. And we really hope that you can join us because we're going to be speaking with two inspiring women, the founder of Jenny Bird Jewelry. So that's Jenny Bird herself, as well as the founder of Say Beauty, Lainey Kroll. So we have so much to learn from both of them. And we'll be chatting all about beauty, style, entrepreneurship, holiday gifting, and much more. Plus, there's a great gift bag and an exclusive discount to shop from Jenny Bird.

0:41So to find out more and to RSVP, click the link in our show notes or the link in our Instagram bio. Space is limited, so don't delay. And we can't wait to see you there.

0:55Welcome to Breaking Beauty, the podcast all about the breakthrough people, products, and moments in beauty. We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins.

1:08Hello and welcome back to Breaking Beauty Podcast. Hello, Jill. Hey, Carleen. How are you? I am wonderful. Well, I have to stop you right away because you have a little green something in your tooth. Oh, perfect. Friends can tell each other when they have spinach in their teeth. We're taking a flossing break. Hang on for a second. You're clear. Yay. How did I not notice that at lunch? We just had lunch, everybody. And we're back. Okay. So roll on. Yes. Okay. Well, we are two former beauty editors turned beauty podcasters. If you've been tuning in for the last seven years, you know that at this point.

1:42And today we're coming in hot this first week of December with a very special uninterrupted bonus episode in partnership with our friends at First Aid Beauty. That's right. We've recruited their number one gal, Fab's global brand educator, Jenna Haley, who travels the world educating on head-to-toe skincare solutions. And prior to First Aid Beauty, Jenna worked side by side with product developers and dermatologists at beauty powerhouses like Birchbox and Estee Lauder. That's right. And I'll never forget sitting down with First Aid Beauty's founder, Lily Gordon, at a press trip in New York. It was at Apotheke in Chinatown.

2:21I don't know if you've been there before. Very deep red velvet Victorian sofas, like Gucci jewel box wallpaper paper vibes. And Lily was telling me how she really set out to create an elevated beauty brand for people who suffered from sensitive skin conditions, because at the time you could only find that in the drugstore. And we all want options. We all want to feel fancy. Absolutely. And I think with Jenna here, she's going to chat with us a lot more. And we were talking off mic, but she has struggled with rosacea, fellow rosacea girly here and eczema since childhood. So it's safe to say that she's not only a bona fide beauty insider, but she definitely knows a thing or two when it comes to sensitive skin, having that lived experience.

3:03So today we're going to find out the ideal skincare routine that's best for the sensitive girlies club. Plus, we'll find out which treatments are going to be powerful enough to address acne, hyperpigmentation and signs of aging while being gentle enough for use on sensitive skin. We'll also learn how to decipher between sensitive skin and a damaged skin barrier. We all want to know this. And really, any of us can suffer from that, especially in the winter months. And how to kind of like claw your way back from that uncomfortable skin situation. And finally, we're going to find out how we can make our skincare work better for us in the throes of winter.

3:42How do we need to transition our routine and any other tips and tricks that Jenna may have up her sleeve? And because this is a partnered episode, that means we have a very special promo code just for Breaking Beauty listeners. So stay tuned until the very end when we will share our exclusive promo code to get 20 % off one of our personal favorite skincare lines for sensitive skin, First Aid Beauty.

4:11Welcome to Breaking Beauty, Jenna. Hello. I am so honored to be here. And I am so excited to talk all things beauty with you and prepping our sensitive skin girlies. I mean, it's a sisterhood, right? It is. It is. We just lowered the shades in here in honor of not getting a rosacea flush. That's right. So we are already a team. You get me. You get me. So as we mentioned, you've worked everywhere from Birchbox to Estee Lauder now at First Aid Beauty. So you're officially a beauty insider. And I understand that your mother was a facialist as well. Yes. She retired when she had kids, but she did for about 20 years.

4:51Oh, my goodness. The ultimate sacrifice. Do you remember any treatments or remedies that she used to kind of put together for you as a child? Absolutely. So, well, first of all, I think I was the only kid on the basketball court whose mom brushed her eyebrows before she went to a game. Like it was truly like beauty was an everyday ritual, even when I was a kid. Yeah. And when I love to pick her brain about because this was like the 70s and the 80s and facials. I mean, she always says like there was none of this. And she'll point to like all the products we have now. Yeah. Right. Essentially, a facial then was like cleansing.

5:29You maybe had a fruit enzyme mask. Yeah. And then it was massage and hydration. Yeah. That's right. So as the products kind of change, I remember growing up, me, my brother, my sister, when there were all these products at the drugstore or the beauty counter, I remember when the first thing she would do is because in her day it was the cold cream, right? There was that thicker cream. So when these products, I think of beauty counter and cleanser became like fairly thin. My mom used to always put like a dollop of cream in every cleanser. Interesting. And it was her way. I think she saw that like she wanted to thicken it up.

6:04And she's like, but it's still not a cold cream. Exactly. And so I remember that distinctly. I also know that it was always hydration second we got out of the bath. Yeah. Yeah. Always cleansing the skin after a day at school. Like the second we got home, I still do that now. No one. The second you walk in the door, bra off, wash the face. Like that is the routine. Wow. And so always cleansing, just like getting that dirt and grime off the face. Yes, exactly. And go ahead. I was going to say, you know what, when you were talking about this nostalgia and I'm picturing, you know, the heavy cold creams and stuff, I had a flashback of this product we had in our bathroom at one point.

6:45I don't even know how it got there because my mom wasn't a huge skin enthusiast. But it was kind of a device like a Clarisonic where you would take the heads off and put on different heads and it was for your face and it would kind of spin around and it was almost like a little sandpaper. Oh, my God. And you would do it around your, do you know what I'm talking about? I've seen it before. It was like had different fine grains on it that would help. It was kind of, I guess, meant to be like a early manual microdermabrasion or something. It was a resurfacer. Yes. There are YouTube videos about this, by the way, if you don't get really into it.

7:19And it was all of these things. There was kind of that swing from like super clean skin to like be super delicate. But then people would feel that rough and dryness of these devices. So at the time, that's what you did. And God knows how many layers you took off at that time. I mean, I walked out and put the baby oil on. Anyway. Definitely not sensitive skin friendly, everybody. Absolutely not. PSA. So as a sensitive skin girl yourself, Jenna, let's talk a little bit about ingredients and like what you tend to look for on a skincare label, because we've all heard different things. But let's talk about what you can shop for.

7:58I think when it comes to sensitive skin, something I'm super passionate about is talking about building up the barrier. Right. And that is because, have you ever been talking to someone, I mean, maybe only you both would understand this, but I'll be talking to someone, I'll be like, damn, that's a strong dermis. Like I can just tell there's certain people born with what feels like more layers of skin than some of us with sensitive skin. Right. So when I'm - They're barrier privileged. Yes, seriously. Exactly. And like myself, I was born with eczema rosacea. I was born with a more delicate barrier.

8:34So taking care of that to me is about barrier building ingredients. So First Day Beauty, we always talk about demand more from your moisturizer. And that's because there are powerhouse ingredients like colloidal oatmeal, even dimethicone, things that are going to help protect, but also build back that barrier. So I'm always looking for ingredients like that. They'll give you that stronger. And it's about resilience, right? It's about being able to kind of take on the day with your skin getting stronger. Yeah. But what is colloidal oatmeal? Exactly. We all know what oatmeal is. And I just learned how to pronounce colloidal oatmeal.

9:17In my kids' practice. Colloidal oatmeal. Colloidal, everyone. Let's say it together. Three, two, one. Colloidal oatmeal. I feel like colloidal oatmeal in my mind thinks that it has extra like minerals or metals in it. I think it's less processed. That's my guess. They take, very good. So you're both right. They basically take, instead of just the oat, they take like the oat plant husk and all. Okay. And then they grind it in a machine finer than you could ever grind it in your own kitchen. Okay. You boil it. And when you're able to add it to product, it makes that product a skin protectant. Oh, OK.

10:01Because what the colloidal oatmeal is doing is it's wrapping your skin. I say when you think of colloidal oatmeal, think of like your cozy, comfiest blanket. It's going to wrap your skin, keep that hydration locked in, but also it's soothing on contact. It's going to help with itch, irritation, help with that red reactive skin. and it actually clings to you. So colloidal oatmeal is going to stay with your skin when you apply it. And that's why it's instant and long-term relief when you have that compromised skin. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. I thought it was interesting that you also noted dimethicone because that is not something I've ever heard before as a powerhouse ingredient to help with sensitive skin.

10:47But I recently had blepharoplasty about five months ago or so. And they wanted me to buy the doctor's office wanted me to buy to put on my scars, this this product that I hadn't heard of. I'm like, I have so many products at home. I was like, OK, this is really important to me. And I actually spent the money. But I was like, OK, what's actually in this, though? And like it was like water, dimethicone, whatever. Yeah. And I noticed with another product, too, where, you know, when you get the lasers in the office and they're like, you have to use this. This is the best. It's over$100, second ingredient dimethicone.

11:23I'm like, this is silicone, right? Unbelievable. First of all, I'm so thrilled to hear that because it is, we joke dimethicone needs a new publicist. Right. Because we have always been told like it causes acne, it's clogging pores. Actually, it's an occlusive. So it's a skin protectant. Derms will tell you that. And it is going to help seal the skin. Locking it in. lock it in, build up that barrier. And when it's formula is when it's included in this really gorgeous formula, it's not going to feel like that gross, sticky that the old dimethicone used to. Right, right. It's become more sophisticated.

12:01Are there any other powerhouse ingredients or ingredients you would avoid as a sensitive skin person? So I always look for it. There's the skin protecting. There's also that soothing. Yeah. When it comes to avoiding first, I'm very proud of our industry for making like tons of changes that we've seen just in kind of the clean beauty space. But always things that are like a no, no for me. And I say this not from a like, don't you touch it, sensitive skin girls. But from a it kind of helps us cut through the clutter of all these choices. So avoid anything. We know this now. Fragrance. Fragrance doesn't belong in your face specifically though artificial fragrance that we know was like that black box in beauty there can be tons of irritants in there so avoiding that but also knowing the difference you know there's good alcohols and there's bad alcohols in skincare right so really that education some that i think of if you see sd alcohol that's a no-no okay i can remember by saying so damaging as the alcohol.

13:07Yeah.

13:12There's denatured alcohol. That's another no, no. Easy to remember, like denatured, devalues the product. So really getting that education. And similarly, we talked about if dimethicone was something you always thought was, oh, this doesn't go for my skin. No, that's something that will really help your skin. So that kind of education and checking that ingredient for those irritants. I like those little memory triggers because my memory is terrible. So it's good to have those. Yeah, it's locked in now. It's locked in. And can you walk us through what a gentle skincare routine looks like for sensitive skin types?

13:50I imagine we're not doing 12 steps. Well, what I love about this. Maybe I'm wrong. Well, here's what I say. When you have sensitive skin, you have to get rid of the idea of a routine. Okay. And I say that because you have to think of your beauty kit as more of like your first aid kit. Because I always say sensitive skin like has its own personality. If you did the same thing every single day to sensitive skin, you would be potentially damaging and irritating because you have to listen to what your skin needs. So when I think of that first aid kit, I say, OK, first I'm going to have the old faithfuls.

14:27I'm going to have the cleanser that never does me wrong. and I'm going to have a powerful moisturizer that's always going to soothe and hydrate my skin. Now, in the kit, I can also have those treatments, but that's what I'm going to really listen to my skin. If I was on a long flight all day, I'm not going to go home and do my tretinoin that night. I'm going to say, OK, tonight is the hyaluronic acid. OK, maybe tomorrow I'll do my tretinoin. listen to your skin right and that to me is more like you have to get out of that every day the same product routine okay and have that tool kit ready so you're still skin cycling which we've talked about on the show before even though you have sensitive skin and for myself i have rosacea i've been to a dermatologist and i was actually prescribed azelaic acid yeah and that's supposed to help for the redness is there anything over the counter in terms of an ingredient that that you can use that would give you a similar type of result from your experience.

15:29Can I ask you, how do you use that in your routine? So it is a cream. So I would use it kind of like a skin cycling idea. And I wouldn't use it if I'm using a retinol or something like that, even though I'm supposed to use it every night. So I don't layer it. How's that been going, by the way? What? Are you using it? The acelaic acid. Are you?

15:57sometimes sensitive skin sisters are a little too like sisters you know what i mean yeah i totally get it yeah and some of them are more sensitive than others that's it too right right oh yes so only once a week got it so the answer is over to you jenna you know i ask because for me i've always gone to germs as the experts right But I think a lot of people, I think, can relate to this. Yeah. The tick tock derms are not the norm. Right. I remember, you know, you go to most dermatologists, they're not going to sit you down and be like, well, first of all, girl, what are you cleansing with? Because that's drying out your skin.

16:38Yeah. Most derms are going to say, OK, this is the solution. And they're brilliant at that. Right. They know skin. But when we look at kind of how those things fit into our lives, you've heard so many people on this show say the best treatment is the one you'll actually use. Right. Yeah. So I've always thought of if you have something maybe from the germ, that's like your potent hit. Right. That's going to get to that targeted solution. But for something over the counter, specifically for redness or sensitive skin, that colloidal oatmeal is really going to help not only build that barrier, but soothe the redness.

17:18Right. In my personal story with really having rosacea, I used to always be terrified of blush. I was like, get away from me. I do bronzer only. when I use soothing ingredients like colloidal oatmeal and hydrating SPF we can't say it enough right right I saw that barrier build back to a point I can finally reach for blush again so there are ways to get those gentle results I think something like I said locking in that hydration with something protecting like a colloidal oatmeal wearing SPF and I mean my favorite thing. Have you gotten into red light therapy yet? Yes. Tell me your experience. Yeah.

17:59Love it. Yeah. I mean, I love to use it again. Somebody is going to bust me over here. I do think that you need to use it every night. She likes skin cycling, everyone. What can I say? It's a low. Yeah, it's skin cycling. I do whatever I want, whenever I want. Programming reminders into your phone. Now it's time for red light therapy. But it is something that, from my understanding, you really do need to use it consistently to make a difference. I found that's something that I discovered this year that I really loved. Like adding it onto a facial and then putting on my hydration that's soothing.

18:37That's been a two-in-one that I've really, really loved the benefits of. Yeah, that's interesting. I will just give a little tip. When we talked to Dr. Gross, I asked him about red light and when's the best time to do it. And he said to do it like on a naked face on freshly cleansed skin. That is when you get the best results, because I think we see them on social media and you think I'm just going to do my whole nighttime routine and then put it on. So it's actually more beneficial. Yeah. It's not as neat as that. You've got to do it on clean skin and go back and put on. Yeah. A little bit of a commitment.

19:07Yeah. Yeah. But I'm glad you brought that up because I do think those types of masks are an investment and not everybody is willing to go there. but they do really help with redness. Absolutely. And I, that's one of those, the few, you know, there's so many devices to see out there and for as sensitive skin, I'm like, avoid, avoid, avoid. And that one, I was like, oh, wait a minute. So that's been something I love to recommend. Yeah. Is there any, is there a brand you can share that you like for masks? Omnilux was the one I went with. Higher Dose is also great. Yeah. I mean, we're hitting the holidays too.

19:41Yeah. That is like, get on those. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. That's like your big if that's your big purchase of the year. That to me has been totally worth it. Yeah. OK. Now, how often should someone with sensitive skin be exfoliating and what method do you like to recommend? Exfoliation. I mean, you guys, you've been doing this for a long time, right? You've heard. Remember, it was like 10 percent every night. Then I was like, no, you should only exfoliate once a month. no other exfoliants. For us, we always talk about first aid beauty. It's like you really do want that daily gentle exfoliation to see those results.

20:21And because someone's sensitive skin, a 10 % peel on me, not going to work. So we see exfoliation as almost like the way you floss and brush your teeth every day. And if a peel is like going to the dentist, you want something that's daily upkeep so your skin can stay ready instead of instead of having to get ready which is what usually causes that irritation so daily look for like glycolic and lactic acids low percentages that you can use every day slow and steady so you see the results without the irritation so first aid beauty has the pads right yes so i do think what's smart about those is that they're pre-dosed so that if you're looking for a way to like tiptoe into exfoliating I think an application like that is actually really smart yes and you'll do it because it's right there it's pre-dosed and easy travel yeah you're exactly right yeah micro dosing is a way of thinking about it and I imagine that they are gentler than some of the other kind of exfoliating pads on the market exactly because they were made for daily use right something super gentle I tell my friends it's almost like your dry shampoo.

21:34Like this is really just keeping the skin shedding. Exactly. It's the upkeep. Right. Okay. And what about for acne? We talked about this before. You can have sensitive skin, but have other things going on. So what is the best kind of strategy to treat acne, but manage your sensitive skin at the same time? I feel like, have you ever met someone with acne that doesn't say they have sensitive skin yeah it's true there are a few people i'll get the people that are like throw every acid you have on my face but then what happens is they become part of our sensitive skin sister right because now their skin is sensitized yes so that to me is the most interesting thing when it comes to pesky acne i think there's the idea for a lot of people who have struggled with acne is that hydration is the enemy.

22:30Whereas we've talked to so many germs who say, actually, a lot of it depends what's causing your acne. But there is some acne that is inflamed acne and you need something to soothe the skin to help with that inflamed acne. So I would say similar to what we talked about before, dimethicone might be your friend when it comes to really helping with that inflammation. Try that oatmeal. And I always talk to acne, people who struggle with acne, to think about creams and hydration options that you may think you can't use. Check the label. If it says non-comedogenic, give that a try. I think a lot of acne sufferers stay away from anything that looks creamy and luxurious.

23:19But peel back the label, take a look, something your skin may really benefit from. Yeah. What about sensitive skin with hyperpigmentation? Because this is just so stubborn and so really it's so hard to deal with and get rid of. So if you're sensitive, what are your tips? I think of it as when we're toning our muscles, we do low weights, more reps. Right. Same thing with the acids when it comes to hyperpigmentation. Do something with low acids, but use it consistently. OK. So even if you're thinking of like a dark spot serum. Make sure it's made for sensitive skin and use it more consistently. And that's how you can get the same benefits that you would in something a bit more harsh, but use it consistently, follow up with that hydration.

24:05So that's how I think of that hyperpigmentation. Is it like a kojic acid or is there an ingredient to look for? I think so. It really comes down to, to me, the overall formula. Okay. With sensitive skin, And it's like a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down. So I know there are so many great dark spot serums out there. Things are going to help. But look at the formula and make sure there's something soothing along with the active. OK. So that you see the results without irritation. OK. Makes sense. And what about aging and signs of aging? You know, you have sensitive skin, but you also are trying to ward off like wrinkles, sagging.

24:47what would be your strategy for that? I'm curious have you guys have you had any times where you've tried a product and had your skin freak out after? Well retinol for sure. I think that's a thing for me like ascorbic acid is my skin just freaks out. So for you it's like instead SPF is really your protection factor for the treatment. Yeah I mean for sure I use SPF every day and retinol it's hard to find one that my skin jives with because because of the yeah the rosacea and the reaction that i get so that's why i'm curious like aside from moisturizing and wearing spf like what would be a good tactic there is well when it comes to retinol now there's like oh thank goodness for science right you heard of retinol propionate probably somewhere in the recesses of my the editor mind, but refresh my memory.

25:41So it's basically, it's like taking the back roads instead of the highway. Retinol propionate is a slow release. So what's nice about that is you're not getting that potent hit on the skin. It's a slow release. So that's a new technology that you really don't have to be scared of retinol like we used to be. I take the 3-2-1 approach when you start using it every third night and go to every second night. And then you could do every night if you'd like. Right. Right. And there are some like our retinol has a clinical trial that it had 24 hours of hydration on the skin and seeing something like that for a retinol, like the technology is getting better and better.