Leading Through Change with Executive Coach and Fmr Agency Exec Toni L Clem

0:00You are listening to and watching Builders, where I interview CEOs, authors, authors, authors, and businesses and careers. Today, I speak with executive coach and former agency executive Toni Clem about her approach to helping today's leaders lead through change. We also speak about her career starting as a greeter at an auto dealership all the way to president and CRO of a large agency holding company.

0:29Hi, Toni. How are you? Good to see you. Hi, John. I'm good. It's nice to see you too. Thanks for being on the pod today. So before diving into your career, I'd like to ask you about what you do today as an executive coach. And when you think about senior leaders today, 2025, what do you think is the biggest or the biggest common challenges that people are faced with and come to you for advice? Well, it depends on the leader, of course, Right. What organization they're with and what they're doing and how big the company is and all of those kind of things. But what I'm seeing is a need to really kind of lead change and navigating what that looks like.

1:15So there's a lot of noise out there, as you can imagine, and I'm sure, you know. So just trying to lead through that and decide, you know, what do I go after? Right. There's there's like just a multitude of challenges as a leader, as someone that is running the company or someone that is helping to run the company. There's a lot of noise out there from culture to constituent communication to transition, which is huge for companies, what they're going through. So that's probably the biggest thing that I hear from leaders is help me get through this. Like, how do I want to show up? And only they can answer that.

2:10Yeah. And leading change is incredibly, incredibly difficult. I mean, I think that something that I often say is the hardest part about being a leader, a senior leader, is just having everybody being on the same page. How do you help a leader or an executive kind of understand what their big issue is? Because I think oftentimes you require personal growth in order to get to the next level, not necessarily how to convince someone else to do something or how to get someone else to change. Sort of how do you get yourself to change, right? That's what coaching is all about. It's your journey, right?

2:46It's not my journey. And I can't lead you. I can't mentor you. I can get super curious and I can dig deep on what you're bringing forward. So in most cases, there are a lot of trailheads that people bring forward and I have to decide with them what is their priority, right? Which one do they want to prioritize, bring to the top so that we can dig into that one. But as you know, environments are super complex. So I might have a priority, but what I'm bringing with me to the table has a whole lot of complexity. with it, if that makes sense. Yeah, it does. I'm curious when clients come to you, how many of them are sort of proactive versus I have a crisis and I sort of need help?

3:48How many have the foresight to kind of see you in advance? I think that in many cases, probably, I would say 75 % of the time people are coming to me wanting to reach a goal. They know what they want to achieve by the end of it. Whatever that cadence and that timeframe is, by the time that they're done, they want to be able to walk away with certain goals that they have. In other cases, they're coming to me knowing that someone has said to them, hey, this is what it's going to take for you to grow, right? You're going to need to kind of show up with a confidence level that, you know, is representative of our firm or, you know, whatever that might be.

4:38So 75 % of the time, that's what they're coming forward with. But the other 25 % of the time that they're coming forward, They've got other stuff that might be of crises. Okay. Then there's the other part of the question that you ask, which is how many people are coming to me? And so that's another 25%, right? That comes saying, I've got a lot of issues and here's what's going on. My culture's broke. I've got a new board. and my sales are down, I need to figure out what to do. And I've got six months to do it. Right. So those are, those are pretty dramatic, but the other 75 % are trying to reach their goals.

5:31And if I didn't say that correctly of that 75%, 25 % are being kind of told what they need to do. Did you know that builders is sponsored by business.com? I'd love to tell you about a new free membership from business.com for small business decision makers. It's called business.com plus, and it's designed to address the pain in selecting new products and services. What is the pain you might ask? It's things like knowing which vendor is best for your specific business, negotiating pricing, having access to someone who can answer questions for you. The new membership business.com plus handles all of that with a dedicated advisor, pre-negotiated pricing and solutions tested and reviewed by experts.

6:16Check it out at business.com slash plus that's business.com slash P L U S prior to being an executive coach, you were an executive for many years. And in your, in your roles, did you utilize a coach, a mentor? Um, and what were you solving through that experience or could conversely, did you decide to become one because you realized you should have done it? Oh, well, that's a great question, because I think if you follow the coaching kind of industry, coaches really came into being probably over the last 15 years and then over the last 10 years, more prevalent. And then with COVID, you really saw a lot of coaches kind of get into more of the ICF accreditation.

7:11So you could claim being a coach without having credentials or the certification. So when I was coming through the ranks, you know, executive coaches and leadership coaches weren't really part of, you know, who you could go to for help. You went to mediators, you might've gone to career counselors, You might have gone to a consultant, but coaching was a little unknown, right? Mentorship, however, was super popular. I was really fortunate and that I had great, great mentors in the business, some that scared me and then some that grew me. And I would say the ones that grew me were closer to a coach than they were really anything else.

8:02Right. So I've been really fortunate that I would consider some of the people that I engage with were coaches. And the needs that I had were really, I think that there's a part of me that, number one, I love culture building. I think it's like one of the most important things that are out there for leaders. And how do you get a good culture, especially when there's so much noise out there? right? So much change, so much demand, so much drive. How do I build that while I'm also doing this? And so that was always intriguing to me. So I watched a lot, John. I watched men in board positions, women in board positions.

8:44I was in a board position and I mimicked some of the behavior that I felt was really, really great. And I kind of stuck it in my pocket so that I could pull it out to say, that's a really good card, right? That I want to use in my everyday leadership. And I guess when I was recruited, my CEO, she was a woman and very, very strong. and I was young and I was also very strong. And initially when she recruited me, she wanted me to come in as a shared position. It was a shared vice president role. And I didn't believe that that was the right thing for her or for me. Right. So I declined it. And she came back three months later and she said, I was wrong.

9:42You're right. And I thought, you know, I'm going to stick that card in my pocket because I love that coming from a strong person is I was wrong and you were right. And, you know, I think I've also learned along the way that great coaching questions include, and I didn't even know it at the time, I was a PCC or ACC or any of that. And I wanted them to tell me what the answer was, what they thought the answer was, so that then I could either add my comments or if their idea was better than mine, then that was great. But I wanted them to give me their answer first. I still use that on boards that I'm on or things like that is I probably have an answer.

10:36It's not your answer. I'd love to know what your answer is first. And then I promise I'll answer. Great answer. You know, I want to, I want to actually ask you about, about your career. You're, you were in the, the ad business, marketing agency business. I, I'm in, I'm in that business and really, really curious about it. So for more than a decade, you were president and COO of Ovari Group, which I think could best be classified if I'm understanding it right as an agency holding company. So not an agency in and of itself necessarily, but many agencies. I'm curious as a start, why did Ovari Group go with that model of multiple agencies instead of trying to lean into one brand?

11:18Because branding an agency is hard enough as it is. Well, there were a couple of things, right? We had specialties within the agency that you know, maybe they gravitated towards us. Maybe we gravitated towards them because we had that experience and we could show them outcomes and things like that. But we didn't have specialists, right? We didn't have a group that only was, you know, focused on entertainment or focused on food or focused on healthcare. I could work on all three if I wanted, right? If I was an account service person, I could work on all three. If I was a creative director, I was guiding all three, right, specialties.

12:08And as the more that we grew, the more that it made sense that whoever was leading the healthcare, biggest healthcare client should probably also lead the smallest healthcare clients or the healthcare insurance client or, you know, one of the arteries that was connected to that. The same thing was true with fast food if or any casual diner fast food. If I had a leader that knew all about it, why would I give another account that was maybe, maybe it was fine dining, but I gave that to my healthcare group. It didn't make a lot of sense. There was a lot of shared direction, a lot of shared collaboration.

13:00And you weren't, I don't believe you were typecast into, oh, I only do healthcare, right? Because only doing healthcare is, it's really an oxymoron in some ways, because there's so much change out there. Right. And it's like, I got into the business when we did a lot of things by hand. Right. My path is a little unique, but you know, when we started getting into really like the specialties, the specialty positions, like I, I know that you have this and, you know, I haven't done it for a few years, but we were hiring video colorists, digital

13:50video typographers. I mean, it was, the titles were so special, right? They were so specialized, you know, and I, we probably had, when I first got in the business, maybe we had 15 titles and now there are lots. So it just made sense to specialize in the category and you were still changing. And if you ever got to the place where, you know what, I don't want to do restaurant anymore. That's okay. As long as we had some place where they could grow to, then we got to keep that talent. I think one of the things that's interesting And for the audience, you had an agency brand focused on restaurants, one focused on, let's say, healthcare, one focused, let's say, on entertainment.

14:43And you kind of went that direction. Instead of some agencies, I think, focus on having their products be functional. Like, we've got a video production brand, and we've got a social brand, and we have a paid media brand. You obviously felt like that was the right go-to-market strategy. What advantages do you think you had in growing those individual agencies by really leaning into something which to me seems very specific? Well, you could still have those specialties that you're talking about. You could still be a great video shop, right? And there were some cases where our video shop, it was its own entity.

15:25So every agency could use that video and they had to pay for it. So it was very much like that video specialty also could sell to other people outside of our agencies. So it became its own, you know, it had its own P &L and a lot of the P &L came from the existing specialty shops and some of it came from their own individual clients. So you could still have those specialty brands that you're talking about, but we didn't go after other clients and we didn't say, hey, we're the best creative shop. We weren't doing that. We are the best at, you know, restaurant creative. We're the best at this creative, not we're the best, you know, creative out there.

16:19I didn't tee this up at the beginning, but Ovari Group, not based in Madison Avenue, not Chicago, not LA, based in Louisville, and a lot of your brands based in Louisville as well. In what ways did you see this as an advantage as you were growing the company? Well, a couple things. Number one, we had a healthcare hub that was really here and Nashville. Like it was, there was a lot of, you know, East Coast systems that were, you know, from a, just a being able to get there factor was really easy. Right. We also had a lot of restaurant brands and I'm sure you're familiar with all of them, you know, and we did, we did at one point all of Young Brands and they were here in Louisville before they went to Plano and other places.

17:17But and then Texas Roadhouse is here. And so there's a lot of restaurant brands or a lot of health care brands. So, you know, I give a shout out to the CEO that started the agency. You know, I will tell you that when she pitched a client here in town, it was in the very beginning. This is when I heard of her, right? She was just kicking it in Louisville. And I'm like, who kicks it in Louisville? I was from bigger markets before I came here. I'm like, who does that? So what she did was she pitched a client and she said, come to our agency. You'll see. We are feet on the ground. We got all state-of-the-art everything.

18:06We'd love for you to come in. So they came in and she had all these people that I don't know where she got them, but she got all these people. She also had all these computers that had never been turned on. They toured. No one asked anybody to turn the computers on. And by the end of the day, she had won that business and she had to figure out like, OK, well, now now this this means something. but that was one of her first biggest clients. And she kept it. And I, I think to this day, they still do work for that client. It's, it's a pretty remarkable story. That is a, that is a crazy sales story.

18:49That's so funny. I know. I'm like, I think she just got people off the screen. Then she got these computers and anyway, it was, it's a, it's a story. Well, you know, even if they had, if they had known kind of looking back on it, maybe they know now, But that is marketing. That is creative, right? Like it is like it's a novel approach to engaging a customer, which is exactly what an agency is supposed to do. That's a really that's a really cool and funny story. But when it came to recruiting talent, did you find sort of an advantage in in getting local folks because you have less competition? Right.

19:24And or was was the strategy getting people from from larger markets to come and live someplace different? Well, I know it was both. We actually went to some of the schools here to do like internship programs and make the internship programs count for something versus, yeah, you can file, you can run errands, you can do this. It was more of a how can we get people that are interested in advertising to really get jazzed about it and whether they stay here or they go. At least they've trained here and we've got that, you know, we've got that workload that was managed by someone that, you know, was an up and comer.

20:10And so that's kind of how it started. And when we hired everybody, I was recruited and, you know, my plan was I was going to go to Chicago and New York and then back to Columbus, Ohio. Always felt like, you know, that was my path. And then I just started, you know, I started getting more involved in the market, started growing, you know, what I wanted to do. And it just kind of got carried away with itself. And I've been here for quite some time. How did you get your start in advertising or marketing to begin with? Well, kind of a weird path. And I can tell you my whole sordid story and you can cut out.

20:53Okay. But when I graduated from college, I was going to set the world on fire, right? I knew exactly what I was going to do. And that was my path. I was going to end up in Washington. That was what I was going to do. Well, within the first six months, I decided that, you know what, I am better than this and they don't see my value. And so this is too political. I'm out of here. And I look back and I laugh at that because I was so young and so, you know, just sure of myself that, well, if they weren't going to hire me, I would hire you. Somebody else would. So I went to I went to work for this gentleman who had a huge auto dealership.

21:46He had it in Florida and all over Kentucky. And I was I was nothing but a greeter. Right. And I didn't care that I left this career, that I was going to go to Washington. I didn't care. I was going to greet people when they came to the door and I was going to help them get to the person that. was going to get them into the car that they wanted. Well, that lasted for about two days. And the owner of this dealership came up to me and he was very gruff, very, very tough. And he said, so how do you like your job? And I said, well, you know what? I really don't like it. I'm quite bored and I don't think you need someone in my talent.

22:29And I can't, I still, to this day, I can't believe I said that. I was in marketing. And so I was in that position for a while and I ended up just caring deeply for this gruff man that, you know, listened to me and did something about it. Right. And, um, there was a advertising agency that was, uh, looking for a media director. So I had a lot of people saying, oh, you should go do it. And the money was better. And so I interviewed and I tanked it. I did awful. And so I call her back the next day and say, listen, I know I didn't do a great job in that interview and I'll work for free. but my growth in marketing needs to go to an agency and I'd like it to be here.

23:26So I got the job and then I was there for about four years, pitched a client. The client talked to the woman in Louisville and said, Hey, you should talk to this, Tony. They didn't win the business you did, but I think you could use her. And so I was actually in the media side, right? I was negotiating, loved it, loved that part of the job, working with people, making a win-win situation. And so she called me and then that's when she offered me the job that wasn't right for me or her. And so the rest is kind of history. I was going to ask you a story about what are some of the breakthroughs that enabled you to be an executive.

24:16And I wonder, because you're talking about these early experiences, you're very, very bold. At least that's my takeaway. way. But in terms of like, is there something that clicked for you on the skills side or what allowed you from being like a media director to having a realistic chance of being a president or COO or CEO of an agency? Well, there's probably a couple things, John, as I look at You know, what, you know, where was that kind of pinnacle place? Right. I was bold and I was and I would say I was super passionate. I loved negotiation. And so the part about negotiation that I liked is that the client won.

25:08Our agency won and the vendor won to some degree. If I made it, you know, to a place where they had a multiple year deal or, you know, the client was bigger than just one entity and all of those kind of things. So I love that. That was like it was a high. It was just really a high. And I also during that time realized how much I felt culture was the biggest part of everything. Collaboration, if I, you know, if I had to tell you my values, they're all about like, you know, how creatively can we solve this? I don't draw pictures and I don't have those kind of creative thoughts, but I do think about what's the most creative thing that we can do with two pieces of clay.

26:01What can we do with that? Right. And then I love collaboration. Right. I am not the smartest person in the room, nor would I ever, ever say that I was, but I thrive on that. So somewhere along the line, I said, you know what? I love this. I'm super passionate about this. I'm super passionate about that. And this boldness was more of my growth, if that makes sense. So I knew when it was time for me to go to and quote unquote Chicago or New York, which is what led me to Louisville is I didn't want to be in kind of a tight cast position forever. Now, I was at the agency in Louisville for five years and then I took a CMO position at Atria Assisted Living, which is a assisted living community across the country.

26:54It was a client that we were working with and he offered me the position. And it was the toughest departure I ever had because I really cared about the agency. So when I went back, and again, it's kind of a different path. I ran my own company for a few years after that. And then I went back to the agency to be the president's CRO. And I had a lot to prove, right? I left as the EVP of media and now I'm coming back as the president. That's kind of weird, right? But it was my inner drive is that passion that said, you know, I have something to prove to people. And I remember the CEO saying, oh, you don't have anything to prove.

27:43The only thing you have to prove is that I hired you, you know, and she was so strong. But I did. Right. Who wants to work for somebody that they don't know can hear them, can see them, can value them, you know, knows how to manage a P &L. Right. Understands account service and knows that creative does win the day. Right. But it doesn't always win the relationship. And you've got to have both. And so anyway, I went back as president, CRO, and then COO, and then, you know, the rest. The rest is history. Tony, I really enjoyed speaking with you today. Thanks a bunch for being on the program. Oh my God, John, thank you so much.

28:29It's really, really great.

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