Lentils, Leadership & Letting People Fly- Richard Peake, MD Merchant Gourmet

0:16Richard Peake:Hello and welcome to the Tomorrow Brands podcast, where we explore what it takes to build a brand of tomorrow. I'm your host, Ruth Fittock, and today I'm joined by Richard Peake, MD at Merchant Gourmet, a brand that's quietly transformed the pulses and grains aisle into something people actually get excited about. We talk about building brands at scale without losing soul, what it means to create a truly empowering culture, and how Merchant Gourmet's obsession with product, people, and purpose led to its recent acquisition by Premier Foods. Let's get into it. Thanks for coming on. It'd be great to start with you.

0:47Richard Peake:So how did you get here? What's your journey been to Merchant Gourmet? Yeah, actually, I've always been in consumer goods. So I started my career actually at Mars Chocolate in Slough. I was there for probably eight or nine years. Really enjoyed it. Great, a great foundation in business. They put loads of time and effort into personal development and training. And yeah, I think I did get to a point there where I felt like I wanted to do something where I felt I could make more of a difference. And probably by that, the type of product I'm selling and how much impact that had in the kind of greater world but also the amount of difference you can make in just such a massive organization I just had a craving for something a bit more entrepreneurial so really from that point onwards I've been at smaller small to medium size but fast-growing consumer goods businesses helping them kind of scale and yeah I seem to have got into a series of what you might describe as slightly boring begrudged sort of categories whether that be like pet food in terms of Lily's Kitchen or household cleaning with Method Ecova even into sort of pulses and grains now with Merchant Gourmet which is actually a space I really enjoy because it's taking enduring trends but trying to find a way to find an edge and make them culturally relevant so yeah that's been my journey.

2:15Richard Peake:So you've got a mix there of challenger and corporate experience. What did you bring forward from your corporate background? And what did you consciously leave behind? Oh, yeah, good question. I think what I learned in the corporate background is, I guess what I call like the hygiene factors that are just super important in any business, which is having really clear structures, processes, framework, the importance of good insight where these businesses I always say big businesses are big for a reason because they're super successful and they're good at what they do I've very much taken those with me in terms of not I'd probably flip that on its head a little bit and say in small medium-sized businesses you have to work out where your angles are or your points of difference that can definitely be in the culture it can definitely be in having a mission and a purpose that you like people really truly believe in and also probably a little bit where people are feeling all the bumps in the road like really genuinely feel it the highs are high and the lows are genuinely low but actually that level of feeling that close to what you're doing it creates a certain culture and vibe that actually you can't copy and also then linked to that once you've got the structure and the process I actually think the ability to move really quickly within that is a very significant competitive advantage.

3:43I liken it to having children, which I have to at the moment because I've got young kids, so they are a lot of my wealth. And it's just so interesting, like children particularly have to have structure. If you don't give them like some level of structure and framework to operate within, it's good luck. And I think so does just human beings broadly in general but then outside of that defined structure what they're amazing at play like being creative testing and learning make believe getting things wrong working out what hasn't happened you see how they operate and think that's such a great way of doing things differently and being creative they're so much more inquisitive and creative than we are because we've had that hammered out so anyway weird analogy i'm going down a rabbit hole here i've never heard that and i too have

4:34Richard Peake:small kids and it's suddenly like pinging my brain because i'm thinking the structure but then also when you give kids autonomy within a structure in which they feel safe magical things happen as well 100 because they'll take more risks like they'll actually be if they know that i'm not so this is the cultural thing and this is i'm like bringing it back to business but if people know that they can take risks as long as they've operated within a structure and they've kept to the defined rules which is don't do anything too rogue they're actually prepared to spread their wings and take more risks because they know that there's only so far they can fall and if they do there's this like nurturing environment that sits underneath them say that's fine what have you learn and let's move on.

5:20And so I do think the small, the small, medium sized business thing, if you can be that, if you can be the, okay, you've got all the structure and process that you get in a big business, but actually you've got so much more freedom and empowerment and license just to go have fun and try things. I think that is like a bit of a magic source, actually.

5:44Richard Peake:I think that's what people want isn't it autonomy I saw a survey of all those employee engagement things you can do like pizzas on a Friday and ping pong and all those things but actually it was the number one thing was autonomy that unique sense of feeling like what you're doing is having a direct impact but then within a kind of safe environment where you've got the process and structure and regular bedtime. It's very important. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I can tell I'm talking to somebody who's in it and been there and knows it. Yeah. A good little, what's the word, like saying or metaphor, which I've used before and it will bore anybody who knows me, is like roots and wings.

6:26So it's like with the family, it's like we, like the aim is give you just amazingly deep roots and like this kind of loving, nurturing, safe environment, basically so you can just go and fly. And if, you know, something goes wrong, the route's always there. I think you can then use that across into business as well.

6:44Richard Peake:Yeah, and I think that sort of psychological safety is important when you're asking people to take risks. I mean, my longest company that I worked in was very much like that. There was no blame culture. So it meant then that people did take risks versus other places I've worked where it's not like that. And actually it changes the way that you think. And even those sort of people operating from a place of fear versus that more expansive thinking because they've got nice solid roots. Totally agree. And like, I actually think that's quite rare. I've been in places or know of places where they would say we've got this really empowering, psychologically safe environment, whereas actually it's not, it's not.

7:28And actually they're almost the worst ones because you have this pretense, but actually if things do go wrong, people getting slightly thrown under the bus or people starting to shout. Why would anyone ever shout in a business? And as soon as that happens, all of that empowerment goes immediately. Yeah, behavior breeds behavior, doesn't it? I actually think it's quite rare to have that true empowerment.

7:56Richard Peake:I think it's quite a nice alternative view from the sort of hustle culture, relentless driving forward. It's a really hard balance to strike because when you're building something and you're building it and it's growing quickly, the fast pace is overwhelming. the difference then between those two environments can be the difference between a team that burns out and you lose everybody and they might be physically there but they're not mentally there anymore and that's not great for anybody and then a team who's thriving under that pressure because it's not always easy growth is it it's not it has its own challenges yeah totally this is where it goes full circle because this is why I love the play analogy because when are you not but you're not burnt out when you're playing and where you're doing the things that give you energy you're burnt out when you're spending huge amounts of your time doing energy depleting activities and I think it's a perfect world but if you can get to a point where in general you're encouraging people to two things actually one is take risk play have fun because that's only going to give you energy but two is just encourage people to show up at work as themselves we've all been there but it's exhausting when you're trying to be somebody else all the time but actually if truly you can allow people to show up and say look the culture is just bring yourself to work you do your best work and it's less tiring no I totally agree you can sort of create the climate and the environment where it feels a bit more energy giving than energy sapping.

9:37Richard Peake:Do you think there's a line of take yourself to work? Because I feel like in principle I agree with you, but I know among friends there's been this sort of generational shift in how open people are about maybe things that are going on in their personal lives, which maybe for some of us who are older, you had previously have like gone to work and just got on with it and I'm not saying that either is right or wrong but that I guess the broad stereotypical thing is the gen z isn't it versus the millennial manager I had an example of somebody who was very upset at work one day because they'd forgotten to pay the balance of their Glastonbury ticket and had so lost their ticket and then couldn't come to the team meeting because they were too upset and that for some people they would feel like this is me bringing my authentic self to work today and trying to find the line there between there's a certain level of your act work there's a certain amount of professionalism expected versus the sort of stiff upper lip that we probably came up in which wasn't right either and I think we're in a tricky in-between period where we're trying to manage that.

10:44Yeah it's a great question I guess when it gets to that point it has to be by individual as well doesn't it to a degree like some people are just more comfortable sharing and some people aren't. my instinct is always further towards the bring yourself piece just in general like what did i hear the other day it was quite a good sort of phrase from somewhere being like i'd rather people didn't like the real me than liked the fake me because i'll spend so long you know getting somebody to like a version of myself that's just exhausting to be and actually they're not really my friend do you know what i mean i do think the same thing at work i think if you're constantly putting on a front that is exhausting you can overshare work yeah probably because it makes other people uncomfortable it's a tricky line I think don't get me wrong that the shift is going

11:34Richard Peake:in the right direction as to people having an understanding of people being whole people not just severance work machines then in the lift it's these kind of changes feel quite rapid I think Sometimes when you look at over in the last five, 10 years, how workplace and idea of workplace has shifted. And I think I've found little things like you can just put little mechanisms in place just to help people bring a bit of the outside in. That's not like wildly distracting, like somebody running around trying to get a Glastonbury ticket. A couple of things we do, we have our weekly huddle and we always start with somebody just talking about an interest.

12:16and they'll just do a quick 10 minutes about this is what like the diversity and team the business is just so interesting and again that's just a great opportunity for people to take a bit of that outside and remind people that we're all actually human beings outside of work and then sometimes in meetings we'll start off with just a quick download by person which starts to feel a bit corporate at that point even the word maybe we need to rebrand that but the idea being that we've all got stuff in our mind that's distracting us just have an opportunity to download and then we're present I've got this off my chest I've done this thing and now I'm present again none of it's perfect but it just help for which then people can focus within yeah I think that's really nice

12:59Richard Peake:and again I guess it comes back to that there's a certain extent of autonomy isn't it if you're like I'm really tired today because one of my kids was up late or because I had loads of fun this weekend And so I'm going to do some like low key tasks, but then tomorrow I'm going to be like back on it double time. Fine. Like we're grownups, we give people that to manage. If they're coming to work every day saying I'm really hungover, I'm not going to do anything and you've got a problem. But there's a sort of amount of let people manage their own energy and work around that. As long as you're delivering, it doesn't matter, does it?

13:33Yeah, I agree.

13:34Richard Peake:We used to say at Popchips, we were done a task based, not time based culture. So we were still pretty much nine to five in the office, but that kind of flexibility on 3pm, I'm just going to go out and have a coffee for a bit or I'm going to go to the gym because that works better for me. No one cares because there's an amount of trust there that you're going to deliver. And if you're not delivering, then that's another issue. But that's what makes places people work. and you've got to trust people to manage their own energy like i for example i know about myself that if i hack into london in the middle of a commute i'm not going to show up particularly well for the first half hour in the office because i'll feel like a bit compressed but also have just done nothing i much more prefer either coming in early but usually later actually and having a coffee on the train doing a bit of work having a bit of thinking time in a slightly calmer environment.

14:29And then you look back and think, why did we insist that everybody got in at nine o 'clock to sit at a desk in a different place, kill themselves for rush hour with no meetings until half 10? It's a trust thing because it was, look, if they're not at their desk, they're probably at the gym or doing their own thing. And out of interest, would you be office based now, or do you think things have moved on and like work should be hybrid or fully remote? Where do you stand on that?

14:58Richard Peake:My reasons are personal, but I am fully on hybrid because as a working mum, if I'd been forced back into an office Monday to Friday, nine to five, like I just wouldn't be here. I wouldn't have a career. I would have dropped out the workforce. Yeah, I'm probably going to go off on now because I just feel so passionately about it. But I think you just lose so much talent from the workplace, mostly women of a certain age, if you make it too restrictive and that there's absolutely no reason why you can't work from home so that you can be there to send your kids off to school and then make them tea at night and that can make all the difference so I think absolutely being in an office you need to have face time with people too I think hybrid is the answer but that flexibility that came from COVID that kind of redefined the workplace I think that was a game changer for so many people.

15:52Richard Peake:And then the creep back is disappointing. I think it's better for everybody. And I think you see more men taking up too, which means that they're becoming more balanced. I just think it's been a really positive change. My business now is different. We're pretty much fully remote, but try to get together in London once or twice a week. So I guess that is hybrids. But also means you can work around your own energy levels. My business partner loves a late night working session she'll stay up one in the morning whereas I'm dead by 6 30 I go hard doing probably more conventional office hours and that's what works for both of us and to your point of making people come in at nine I think it's the benefit of smaller businesses where you have that trust and that tighter group of people you can do that I think as you start to scale probably and you get to 100 plus employees, maybe that's when it becomes a bit harder.

16:42Yeah, it goes back to that thing that you need more clearly defined rules, don't you? Because, you know, there'll be the exceptional few that take advantage. That's when it becomes difficult. I think you have to be, you have to be really careful about prescribing to people what work-life balance is. It's always interesting how it's actually, I don't know, some countries or businesses are like, you can't send emails after this particular time, like after half five, where it's actually, do you know what, that that doesn't represent balance to me because I'd much rather do it then because that I put the kids to bed or like I've got more energy then and do something a little bit later or actually my work-life balance tilts more towards work and I'm like I'm totally fine with that but I'd find it very stressful if someone dictated when I can and can't work because then I've got to fit into boundaries and parameters that actually are out of kilter with how I operate where my energy comes from or what my life looks like.

17:37A bit of work at the weekend for me, it works really well because I know I can get up early and just get some stuff done and then it's not hanging over me and I'm more present. Yeah, I struggle a bit sometimes as well with, I guess it's when anyone predefines how you should work.

17:51Richard Peake:I completely agree. I read once that you get two types of people. You're either a compartmentaliser or you're a sort of free-flower. And for compartmentalisers, those are the people who really thrive in nine to five. And when you're at work, you're at work. When you're at home, you're at home. And then there's another type of person who can dip in and out. And for both of those people, that's just what works for them. Neither is right or wrong. It's just a frame of mind. I think trying to set up structures that accommodate those rather than being, to your point, this is work-life balance. And if you want to check your emails while you're on holiday for half an hour in the morning, because then you actually genuinely relax rather than think, what's in my inbox?

18:30Richard Peake:Then maybe that's a good thing. this is that's so interesting it's so interesting you say that well because we I'll give you a really good example we as you'd expect we're like surveying people and saying what's working what isn't what would you like to see and I remember we had a kind of leadership team meeting it was like a lot of people are asking for summer hours where it's okay on a Friday we're going to finish at one and and I was like I think that's so sad that people have asked for that fine but do we really need a rule to tell people like I'm almost it almost feels the ante of what we're trying to do but the feedback was actually people some people want the permission to your point on being a compartmentalized that some people want and need the very clear permission that they can and are going to finish at one on a Friday in order for them to really be clear on that and enjoy that bit of time there's free flowing side of oh it's that's cool I've done what I need to do and I'll just I'll finish now you're right it comes all the way back to that same thing give people enough structure where they actually can operate within it as opposed to feeling discombobulated by zero guardrails so we've talked about culture at Merchant Gourmet and how that shaped a team but I also wanted to ask about a huge recent milestone the acquisition of Merchant Gourmet by Premier Foods congratulations it's a huge moment for the brand was that always the plan Were you building it with an exit in mind?

19:53Yeah, very much. I think we were always quite open about that with everybody that worked for the business. The way we've always referred to it is that our job is to build enterprise value. But actually, the way to do that is through growth, profitability, brand recognition. So the two things go hand in hand. But yeah, ultimately, you build enterprise value to a really good point and an exit will probably come. So yeah, we've always been quite open about at some point, that's the plan. but don't over focus on it.

20:23Richard Peake:How did that feel? Was there anything surprising? The process or the actual exit itself? I guess both because they're two separate things aren't they? Yeah good question. I think it's hard like naturally it's very hard because essentially it's like having two jobs because you need to run the business and the business has got to keep growing and being successful, but also you are going through a process, which is a very, obviously, for obvious reasons, full on, full on process, which takes a lot of time. Hard work, I think there's bits of it, I don't know whether it's surprising, but there's bits of it that I found tricky.

21:04Because naturally, and of course, you have to keep it very confidential. And we talked a bit about culture, but we have a really open culture just within the team and the business. And we probably feels a bit uncomfortable saying, oh, myself and the leadership team are off for another day, just doing some strategy work and everyone being like, really? But it's interesting because actually when it comes to the announcement and you announce it to everybody, they're like, of course, you had to keep it confidential, makes total sense. So you can tie yourself up a bit of knots on that one. And yeah, in the harder times, you can start to feel a bit defensive on the due diligence side where people start questioning decisions you made three years ago, which you already knew weren't the right decision and you have to go over some of that territory but again you have to remember the questions are all coming from a good place in order for somebody to extract the value that they need to out of it to put a really good bid in ultimately it's a roller coaster but ultimately clearly it's a hugely rewarding thing when it actually happens and you're like wow someone's prepared to pay this for this thing that I've spent so long building is an amazing feeling.

22:11Yeah. So it's a roller coaster, I could have said.

22:14Richard Peake:And in the end, sort of when it all goes through, was that like pure joy or were you just exhausted? Definitely a mixture of the both. I think it's definitely joy because, yeah, I guess it's the thing that you've been working towards for so long. And it's a real milestone, the completion of an amazing chapter. But you do look ahead and say, God, given the partner, there's now so much to go after. There's also a lot to do, clearly, when as soon as that moment happens, because there's a lot of columns and there's a lot of people to talk to and it has to be done in the right way. And then when the adrenaline goes, there is some level of exhaustion for death.

22:56Richard Peake:And you're staying on within the business. What does that mean for you personally now, stepping into that MD role within a larger organisation? Yeah, I think personally, it's really exciting because of who the organisation is. The mission and vision of the business is always to put more everyday gourmet moments into people's everyday meals and we've always stood by that but through really good plant-based ingredients and clean ingredients that this just means we'll be able to do that at scale and premier foods clearly have an incredible track record of creating massive scale brands and businesses so it's god this is what we need and the business needs to do that and what a big driver for me is creating value and growing fast and that clearly is a big opportunity to do that so yeah it's it's a sort of exciting moment to take the business into that next chapter and clearly it would be remiss not to say that there's there's a transition and it's a new partner and you have to manage people and a business through that which isn't always easy but I think the one thing that everybody said when we talked about it is we needed it it needed a new partner who's got genuine firepower and what better partner than somebody who's proven they can do it again and again.

24:16Richard Peake:So we talked a lot about culture do you think that the kind of unique culture you've created has played a role in making Merchant Gourmet acquirable? Yeah, yes, I definitely do. I think that there's elements of the culture. We talked a lot around team and empowerment, where it's a style and a leadership style, which I think I do believe led us to taking market share and disproportionate growth. But I actually think there's elements of the culture, like being obsessed with food, being obsessed with quality new products that actually that creates a point of difference around the brand that actually people look at and say that's something really interesting that I want in my organization and probably that's something that it's incredibly difficult to create from scratch and those things then clearly you derive value from that because it's something that potentially you can do yourself so yeah probably split into two bits on that but yeah But Premier were always quite clear that they're buying a brand and a business that they think they can grow and that's exciting.

25:25And also a team who have the sort of necessary skills, capability and culture who they can learn a bit from as well as we can learn from them. So it felt like a kind of a sort of symbiotic relationship, if you like, from that point of view.

25:41Richard Peake:And do you think it's possible to keep the same small business agility now that you've got Premier's backing? Yeah, early. It's probably early to answer that. But I think, you know, the reality is, and I think you do need to be realistic, what was our competitive advantage where we didn't have somebody with the firepower and scale of Premier? I think probably was our agility, our ability to make quick decisions and just do things on the fly. Is that going to be our competitive advantage now? it might be part of it and it'd be lovely to think that actually we can continue to keep that and inject it into a bigger organization but we're excited about the scale we can reach the the marketing team already seems to be doubling the budgets they think they're going to but actually our ability to reach more people our ability to drive awareness with the knowledge the know-how and the firepower of someone like a premier food i think i imagine we can keep parts of it but actually will find other ways to generate competitive advantage too.

26:46Richard Peake:I'd like to go back and talk about category and to our very early point about sort of category disruption because Merchant Gourmet were really early into plant-based but that space has obviously evolved a lot. How have you navigated that shift? Yeah and actually it's interesting because I don't really consider us disruptor. That's probably actually almost where I think I went wrong at the beginning. I should caveat all of this. I should have said this at the beginning. I'm not a founder. I always say I take everyone else's really good work and then just help them grow it, which is a really important point because I always find it takes me a little while to get comfortable in the skin of somebody else.

27:22To your point on sort of plant-based and disruptivity, I think that when I joined, I was like, oh, this is interesting because actually everything is plant-based and we don't talk about it and it's a massive trend and we should be the plant-based disruptor and we can appeal to a younger audience. And I think we took that too far and had these sort of save the planet lines. And whereas actually that's never really what the business was founded on. The business was founded by two brothers who just loved food. They were like massive foodies, imported really interesting, great ingredients from around the world and sold it in retail it was by coincidence plant-based and the messaging was almost quite jarring it never really appealed to anyone and it took a little while to say actually that's not the one that's not what our consumers actually buy us for or if you ask them three words about merchant gourmet would not be plant-based but it just doesn't really feel genuine and right to who we are.

28:25So we ended up doing not full circle, but a pivot towards saying, look, the business is founded on amazing products that are minimally processed and taste amazing. So that is, that's who we are. That's our DNA. And by the way, it's plant-based. And that's great because if we can make plants taste amazing and a bit more convenient and people eat a little bit more plants, that's good because it's probably better for people's health and probably better for the environment but that's a kind of you know like a surprise and almost a surprise and delight thing that sits underneath so to answer your question a bit more directly the plant-based thing I'd say we're much more veg forwards we focus on taste quality and minimal processing and I think that's an enduring trend that's never going to go away people want good quality sustainable food not messed around with that comes out the ground and then to make that culturally relevant in a way that consumer gets so if you like the disruption probably more comes from the obsession around that and the confidence in that position than it does taking a poke at anybody so we're not you know we're not a vegan brand we're not anti-meat at all we're pro plant and that is quite an important difference in just our outlook we'll use influencers and put recipe content out that shows our product with meat, which is much, much more around quality ingredients and minimal processing.

29:56Richard Peake:And what about convenience? Because I feel like that I'm a big fan of the brand. And for me, it's the kind of good food very quickly. I have it for lunch or if I've come back in from a commute from London. And I feel like you've done some really nice ad campaigns about that, which sort of play with your preconceptions of what like convenient food tastes like. Yeah, exactly. What I always say is take an enduring trend and make it culturally relevant. So the enduring part we've covered, which is food that comes from the ground, blah, blah, blah. The culturally relevant bit is actually at the moment, people, one, are massively short on time.

30:36And two, they have incredibly high level of choice. The short on time bit is let's make this super convenient, like hyper convenient, 90 seconds ready to go. But also what you get in 90 seconds is a very high quality product that elevates, hopefully like elevates your meal and tastes amazing. So you might have loads of choice, but actually you're going to love this product. And they're the two bits that we've really tried to focus on because it's solving. Well, hopefully it's solved. you very nicely put a problem that a lot of people have, which is, do you know what? I'd rather cook a meal from scratch and spend time making it and enjoy it.

31:17But actually, I don't always have time because people are busy.