Plezi, the U.S start up with a big mission

0:15Hello and welcome to the Tomorrow Brands podcast where we explore what it takes to build a brand of tomorrow. I'm your host Ruth Vitock and my guest today is Sam Siegal, former PepsiCo exec, now VP of Marketing at Plesi, the US drinks brand co-founded by Michelle Obama and backed by NBA superstar Stephen Curry. Sam's career spans Wall Street, billion-dollar brands and bold challenger startups. And in this episode, we get into what it really takes to build a mission-led brand from the inside out. Hope you enjoy.

0:48Great. So hi, Sam. Thanks so much for joining us today. Where are you joining us from? Thank you so much for having me. I am joining you from Brooklyn, New York. Lovely. And before we get into it, if you could let me know a bit about your background and how you got to where you are now. Absolutely. So Sam Siegel, I started my career on Wall Street, actually. I had a very liberal arts undergraduate degree in the States and wanted to get some practical experience and thought that was a good place to start. And so I began my career on Wall Street before pivoting over to business school. And when I did that, my intention was actually to get into the arts.

1:34I had been a dancer my whole life, and I really wanted to save the world of modern dance and become president of Lincoln Center, which is a beautiful arts performance organization in New York. Got to business school for a number of reasons, realized very quickly that that was not going to be my path, but had no idea what I wanted to pursue and felt very strongly that I wanted to try to affect change in the world, but was really drawn to do that from within an organization that had some means and some scale to it. I was fortunate to come across PepsiCo, the small startup of PepsiCo at the time, right as our then CEO was really starting to talk about this notion of performance with purpose as part of an operating model.

2:25That was very appealing to me. I had an opportunity to join PepsiCo as an intern through the finance organization, came back full time. I loved that work. It was very much strategic finance at the intersection of finance, marketing, and strategy. PepsiCo is a very rotational culture. So I did those first few rotations and the time came when I was going to have to do real true hard finance. I looked inward and said, this is not what I want to do. I had to again, soul search and say, who am I? And what do I want to be? And made my way over to our corporate strategy organization, because I wanted that balcony view, I wanted to work across countries, work across different parts of the business, different challenges facing the enterprise at a massive level.

3:13When I was in that organization, really felt like the marketers were behaving the most like general managers and also having the most fun. Eight short years later, I had spent half a career in marketing at PepsiCo and really enjoyed that work, really enjoyed everything. I learned from that getting close to the consumer, but my biggest learning was that marketing is not just colors and fonts. And it is truly about getting to the beating heart of humanity and matching a product that you have and credentials that you have with a problem to solve for real people. And there's something really magical about that.

3:51And so that really drew me in. And I had an opportunity to do that at PepsiCo for quite some time before leaving that organization to try the other side of things, right? So going from 60 plus billion dollar enterprise to a very, very small kind of teenage organization that was at a pivot point. So I had an opportunity to go over to an amazing company called Death Wish Coffee and work on building out their brand positioning, the marketing there. Very, very different in many ways, but also not so different from my time at PepsiCo. And it really enjoyed that work. And that is what ultimately led me to my current role at Plessey.

4:32it's a lot of big changes and switches there from sort of dance to wall street hard finance to marketing from like global corporate to scale up to startup and it all makes sense to me right what's the one thing you know now that you wish you knew then Oh, goodness. I would say there's two things. The first is that every business challenge can be solved. And it is not necessarily a linear solution. It is not necessarily the first solution that you might think. But there is always a way, especially if you tap the resources and the partners around you. The second thing that I wish I learned is what that solution requires is often less about the size and the age of an organization and more about the unique set of circumstances facing that business at that point in time.

5:41And that is not to discard the differences between a 100 plus year old company and a brand spanking new startup. But it is to say that there are always nuances and variables of that moment in time that really are as important. Someone said to me once, and it's always stuck with me, especially at the moment when everything's a bit crazy, is market forces outweigh individual performance. So there's sort of always a bigger context to everything that's going on. And in a way, it's comforting because it's not in your control. And in a way, it's terrifying because it's not in your control. So tell us about Plesi.

6:22UK audience probably won't be aware. What's the brand? What's the mission? What problem are you trying to solve? Absolutely. And frankly, many in the US market would also not be aware because we are a very young, very new company. Plesi was first announced in the middle of 2023 by our co-founder, who was the former first lady of America, Michelle Obama. And when she was dating back to her time in the White House, she has really dedicated her life's work to raising the bar on healthy eating and living for American families, particularly kids. And she spent a lot of time working on that through from a policy lens, from a nonprofit lens, and came to realize as not so dissimilar from my personal realization early in my career that the best way to affect change is from inside an industry.

7:13And so PLEZI's mission is really to nourish the next generation of, we say, playmakers and game changers by upending high sugar, low nutrient categories. And so simply put, we go into categories, starting with beverage, that historically have had a lot of added sugar and empty calories. We take out added sugar. So we do no added sugar. We add nutrients that are often missing from people's lives and diets. And we make sure that our products taste at parity to category leaders, because we also are very practical in realizing that if it doesn't taste good, unfortunately, it doesn't matter how healthy it is.

7:51And so we need to deliver on both of those expectations and needs. And that is why we exist. That is what we get up to do every day. And that is what we are working on. Amazing. The brand's been going a couple of years now. Interesting to hear how things have evolved. So your target audience, as you started out, you started targeting parents. As you say, it's like mostly about changing behavior in kids. Has that evolved over time? It absolutely has. You know, being in a startup feels a little bit like going through adolescence as a human, right? Because you're finding yourself, you're figuring out what works for you, what works in your community and in your world.

8:30And it's really no different being part of a young startup. So when Plesi started, the first product that was launched with was our kids juice alternative. And that is because the average American child consumes about 53 pounds of added sugar a year, much of it coming from sugar sweetened beverages. Yeah. So there's a real urgency to this mission. We started with that product, we continue to have that product. But what we realized is there is a equal if not greater opportunity and categories that are heavily consumed by young people, but we're all consuming. So things like soda, things like sports drinks that should be good for you and nourishing you as you're out there moving and playing sports in pursuing athletic activities.

9:19And so over time, we have really shifted the portfolio. Our primary products today are our Plesi Hydration, which is our healthier sports hydration alternative, and then Plesi Phys, which is our healthier alternative to a traditional soda. We focus on that. Our core consumer is really individuals who are starting to make their own purchase decisions for their first time. So there's something really exciting about helping to set those habits, a moment in people's lives where they're starting to choose for themselves, which is truly formative. But we're also seeing that they're just great liquids and people want no added sugar.

9:56They want no artificial dyes or colors, right? We've got potassium and vitamin C and so all these good things. And so we are figuring out what does it mean to be a brand with a very clear point of view and a very clear consumer cohort, but broadly appealing. And that's a tension I know a lot of brands go through, agnostic of how old they are and how far in their life cycle. It's an interesting target market. I have to admit, I've never worked on a brand going that young before. It makes me feel old, I think. I'm deeply humbled by high schoolers and young college students. I can only wish I was that thoughtful and articulate at that point in my life.

10:41And it's extremely impressive. Yeah, I bet it's fascinating and challenging and, yeah, refreshing versus busy mum, who is generally the target for pretty much everything I've ever worked on. It's different, yes. how do you because I know this is always the tricky part when you're working in better for you brands of balancing that like health taste fun what's your approach to that it is very challenging to your point in the category broadly and then when you think about the consumer that we're speaking with it's actually even harder because this it's an inflection point for many, where they're starting to think about nutrients and ingredients.

11:32And we see this and we hear this when we speak to consumers, which we do constantly, because we are not 17 year olds athletes, contrary to, you know, I know folks won't be able to see me, it'll be very surprising. But so we're constantly speaking with consumers and doing research. And it's a moment of transition where they are starting to challenge ingredients, challenge companies to do better, but taste still dominates. And if it doesn't taste good, it is not getting a first trial, nevermind a repeat. And so we do really focus on leading with taste and leading with occasion and some of those more traditional marketing frameworks that you would consider, but we can never, ever lose sight of our mission and our North Star and our quality and bring that along.

12:22And how we dial that up and down is often channel specific, right? Are we in a platform where we have more time for storytelling? People have already opted in and so they've signaled interest in the brand, or are we just trying to grab someone's eye as they walk down a busy aisle and are faced with decisions that they've maybe known, met some of these brands since birth. And so we have to disrupt that kind of habitual reach. And in those situations, we have less of an opportunity to deliver the full message. So it is a constant challenge and a constant dialing up and down. Yeah. Has that been anything that surprised you with this target audience in the way that they've responded to the brand and their approach, any sort of way that they defy, I guess, that kind of categorization of them as a generation?

13:16I think people have these sort of stereotypes of, is it alpha? Are they gen alpha? We call it gen Zalpha because we do, and I think really we're speaking more to Gen Z, but we have consumers in our cohort that span and they're very different, right? We talk often to middle schoolers, high schoolers, and in college and young adults. Once you kind of see that high school college hurdle, especially with athletes, they're thinking about performance, they're exceptionally thoughtful about what goes in their body and educated about ingredients and nutrients and how they're going to help or hinder their performance.

13:55But middle schoolers are still kids. It is all about taste and wanting to have fun and being with their friends. With any generation, There's vast oversimplifications and generalizations. This cohort seems to be no different. But by and large, the individuals we speak with are so thoughtful about themselves and their communities and the impact they want to have on the world, which is really impactful. Yeah, that's obviously great to hear as well as thinking of who's coming up in the future. So you mentioned at the beginning that Michelle Obama is your co-founder, what a co-founder of a brand. has her legacy informed the brand?

14:35So her legacy is the core of the brand, right? We came to this business with a commitment to transparency and integrity in what we produce and how we produce it and how we communicate it. And that is, we are unwavering in our focus on that. So everything from how we define the brand persona, right, to the partners that we work with, both externally facing and internally facing, there is a hurdle level that we are constantly considering. Even when we are in marketing channels where we speak more about taste and flavor and fun, we are always keeping that mission at the core. Nice. And then you've got some other high profile backers, including NBA player Stephen Curry.

15:21How has that helped your launch? Absolutely. So we're extremely fortunate. So Stephen Curry and his wife, Aisha, who is a just incredible, bad, you know what, in her own right. I mean, she is a remarkable entrepreneur. They are co-founders of investors in the business. And really, they played a tremendous role in the launch of Plesi Hydration. And certainly, you know, when you have a sports fuel, a sports hydration beverage, to have the influence of one of the most exceptional athletes in the world, not just today, but in history at your side is a phenomenal asset to have because he is bringing a level of rigor of comprehension about recovery and training and what a body needs that is unparalleled.

16:09And so both of them, and Aisha comes with a deep entrepreneurial and culinary background, bring a very high level of engagement on product development, flavor, packaging, design, and marketing and we're extremely grateful because when they speak the world listens and that is a huge asset for a brand that no one has necessarily heard of before yeah absolutely I feel like the UK is a bit further behind on the sort of we don't have as many celebrity backers it's that it's shifting you can see that people have seen you know it's a no-brainer is it when the fit is right I think as well. That's so important.

16:49You do see such a proliferation of celebrity backed brands in America and you look at them sometimes and the rhyme and reason isn't necessarily there, nor is the engagement. It truly has to be born of a use case and a need that is very real for them. And that has a role in their lives or else it's just a signature on a bottle, a signature on a pack. And people see right through that. Yeah. Any unexpected downsides of having such high profile talent involved? Absolutely. So first is just logistics. Stephen Curry has had a very busy year from the Olympics to the NBA season to the playoffs. And no matter how deeply committed to or involved with a business celebrity may be, they have requirements on their time that give them that level of fame that are unavoidable.

17:44unavoidable. So certainly when the NBA season comes around, that is not something that we have access to. And so we have to plan for it, right? We plan a lot of our content many months in advance so we can capture it and have it at the ready during those moments of unavailability. But the other thing that we think a lot about is the dual nature of building a new brand that is tied to the credibility of a celebrity and the authenticity of a celebrity, but can stand on its own right. Because we never ever want to build a brand that is so inextricably tied to a face and a partner behind it, that we can't stand on our own and we don't stand for anything on our own.

18:29And so that is a balance that we are constantly working on. It makes sense. Launching a brand new into market, What's been your go-to-market strategy so far? Sure. So particularly with Plesi Fizz and Plesi Hydration, we're taking a very measured approach. So we have started with our brick and mortar distribution predominantly on the west coast of the United States. It's an area of strength for the category. Of course, Stephen Curry is from or plays for the Golden State Warriors. And so there's deep affinity for him in particular in California and in Northern California. And we've also started with a very tight footprint of retailers where we have deep collaboration and partnership.

19:12So we have that concentrated brick and mortar footprint. And then we have launched nationally on Amazon so that we can start driving trial beyond that geographic area. And then we'll take a very measured approach. We deeply believe in the power of retail velocities and proving the pull of the product market fit. And so we will get to a point where we feel fantastic about that and expand our footprint from there. Sort of coast by coast, state by state. We're evaluating the right kind of geographic nodes. And this is where startup life gets so interesting, right? Just because you're the marketer does not mean you're only thinking about driving consumer awareness and love.

19:53You're partnering deeply with supply chain and sales and finance to say, where should we go next based on the consumer, based off of our supply chain capabilities and our production and warehousing capabilities. We have to all work together as just one team to make these business critical decisions. I think that's what makes working in those sorts of businesses, you get such well-rounded experience of how a brand works and what it takes to scale and survive and succeed and understanding how those functions work together that you don't necessarily get once you're in a bigger business. Absolutely.

20:35And I mentioned that I was drawn to marketing because it felt like the role where you were the most of a general manager. And I think nowhere is that more true than in a small startup where everybody is a general manager. And so if you like that type of marketing, that type of business leadership, I had a phenomenal boss over at DeathWash, our CEO, Tom Ennis, and he used to always talk about thinking around a problem. and that really just stuck so deeply with me because there is no problem that you should not be thinking all the way around and that's kind of what every day feels like in startup world a lot of problems opportunities it's good good reframe I think it also helps if you then go into a slightly bigger business to have that grounding as a marketeer because to your point about the perception of marketing is being about colors and fonts when actually, you know, when you're really rooted in the commercials and the realities of running a brand, I think it changes how you relate to other departments and how they relate to you as well, because you kind of demonstrate an understanding of their jobs and their roles and their lives versus, oh, we're here just to make a pretty advert.

21:50Absolutely. Yeah. Just beating the drum for marketing. We're demand generators. Demand generators. Yeah, exactly. Growth engine, not cost center. What would be your top piece of advice to a brand launching tomorrow? Start small and don't be afraid to find yourself. I think it is very easy to make decisions that are extremely well grounded and thought out for the moment in time and what you've launched. And to your point from the beginning, macro variables change constantly. And it is OK to go out in the world, learn something about yourself, say, it turns out this is not who we are or we have a bigger opportunity and we need to change in this way.

22:44And consumers are very forgiving if you are communicative about why you've made the decisions that you have. It's like a relationship. If you explain why you've made a decision, people are very accepting of that. And the worst thing you can do is double down on something that you have disproven for yourself. Especially when you're so young, you don't have the awareness that you think you do. People don't think about you. They don't care. So take that opportunity. But it only works if you start small, right? If you start national, if you start large, then you've made it harder for yourself. Yeah, I think that's really good advice.

23:28And also it's sort of learning the line between evolving and pivoting versus just swinging like a crazy pendulum every time something changes. And the successful brands, I think, are the ones who learn that line of when to stick and when to twist. And to your point, what you don't want to do is just go with every passing wind, every passing time. And so if you can't explain why you're making a change other than it's a trend or it's what people are doing, you're probably not making the right choice. But if you're backing something with data and consumer response and you're building for sustainability, that's very different.

24:12Yeah. You're in a startup. up. We know there's a lot of problems slash opportunities all the time. How do you manage your team to move fast without burning out? Sure. Well, one of the benefits of being in a smart app is you have very lean teams. And so we do have a very lean marketing team of deeply experienced and brilliant individuals, the two thirds other than myself, of course. And so we're just in constant communication, constant prioritization. Is this timely? Is this moving the needle? Is it going to help the business? And we do that regularly. And we are in communication multiple times a day because you can't be precious about who owns what.

24:59Someone has to own everything and then move it forward and be in clear, constant communication with everybody else, internal cross-functional with your agency partners and your vendors because there is not the time to be precious about anything when you're trying to move a significant agenda forward with a very very lean skeleton team you know that things can't be perfect when you're moving at speed but then how how sort of less much less than perfect can they be is it like 80 20 is it like 70, 30, you know, and used to say, if it's like 80 % there, you just get it out the door. Sure. The most frustrating response, it depends.

25:42And it depends on two things. The first is the scale and longevity of the output. So if we're talking about a social media post, we can take a higher level of imperfection on that. The worst thing that happens is we pull that back, we rework it, we relaunch it. Anything digital, there's a great opportunity to learn, especially now with so much A-B testing capability, to learn, adapt, and evolve. If it is a larger scale, if it is more permanent, if it is more costly to rework or unwind, certainly we have a much higher bar for perfection and for excellence. That's our first litmus test. The second litmus test is what we call the New York Times test in America.

26:27And that comes back to the unusual nature of our investors and our co-founders. If something could create risk of a negative headline for any one of our esteemed founders or investors, that is going to give us, we are going to have a higher level of scrutiny and perfection and review attached to that. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I guess one of the sort of unexpected challenges then of being a challenger brand and having to be careful not to be too risky or edgy or disruptive, because you've got personal reputations on the line as well. Absolutely. I would say this is a place where we are building a brand that is so closely tied to the qualities and the personalities of our investors and our founders, right?

27:21So when you think of someone like Stephen Curry, he is a kind human. He is a hard worker. He is creative and agile, but he also has a little swag. He's got a swagger to him. And that's how we think about the brand. And so building a brand that is really an embodiment in many ways of the personality of this person without only being about him gives us a little bit of a backstop. Because if we're doing something that isn't right for him, we need to ask if it's right for the brand as well. Yeah. On lots of branding projects I've worked on, one of the things we do to help bring the brand to life is if the brand were a celebrity, who would it be?

27:59And that feels like a very literal version of that. What's one thing you wish more founders understood about brand and marketing? That we are about demand generation. And I think my limited walkings of the world, people do get this because everything and everyone is a brand nowadays, right? Social media, online, or the new world of online, that is how you build brands and in-person experiences. And I think there is a deep understanding that if you don't build a distinct point of view and a personality in this world, it doesn't matter how good your product is. Conversely, you can build a great personality, a great brand.

28:44And if your product isn't great, then that doesn't matter either. The one thing that I think is a little bit still needing some comprehension is just the cost of doing business in today's world. We've become exceptionally good at bartering and trading with partners and have some phenomenal partners that see the value in that. You can go a long way with that and with scrappy budgets and particularly with the technology and the platforms and the learning and the creative tools available today. And those work extremely hard, but there is a base cost of doing business that is still pretty meaningful.

29:22Yeah, I think that's fair. someone on a brand I was working on someone asked me to cut the marketing budget down to zero for a time and I was like do you want me to turn the website off because there's a you can't there's a basic cost um and we've talked about mission and social impact and how important that is to the brand what are the sort of practical ways you keep that front and center in your day-to-day work and with the team? Absolutely. So we start, to your point, we start with the resources available to us. And so the simplest thing is who we work with and who we put front and center to be representative of the brand.

30:04Are they individuals that embody the values and the mission and the purpose and the heart that we're looking to build for this brand? That's the simplest thing because that's already baked into our budget. We've got some grand visions, right, for how we go above and beyond that in the future state and in terms of the commitments we make and the work that we do out in the world. And some of those are beyond our reach right now. Some aren't. We do quite a bit of collaboration with nonprofits. So Stefan and Aisha have their foundation, Eat, Learn, Play, which does amazing work in communities in Oakland and Northern California.