CONTENT MARKETING: Mastering Brand Storytelling and Audience Engagement with John Egan

0:00And now, Taking Care of Business, your hosts, Craig Moen and Shai Gilad. Welcome to Business Owners Radio, episode 239. Our guest today is John Egan, content creator, marketing strategist, and author of the book, The Stripped-Down Guide to Content Marketing. It's a hands-on guide to content marketing strategy, a key factor in every successful business. Good morning, John. Welcome to Business Owners Radio. Thanks for having me. Yeah, we're very excited to have you here today. We have copies of your new book, The Strip Down Guide to Content Marketing, Success Secrets for Beginners. So tell us what inspired you to write this book.

0:45Well, I've been in content marketing since 2010, and it's kind of the book I wish I had when I started because I didn't know much about content marketing. I didn't really even know it existed. and the term is relatively new, but content marketing has been around since at least the 1800s. So it's not a foreign concept. It's just that it's got a stamp on it now and there is a whole industry that's coalesced around it. Yeah. And that industry is changing really fast. And I think that we used to think about content marketing in a context simply for people that do a lot of B2B sales, that are selling to other businesses that have a long sales cycle.

1:31So they have to have a lot of content to help educate people on how to think about the problems they have, actually, and of course, how their solutions work. But really, I think this becomes so much more expansive than that. I feel like in a way, content marketing needs to be at the core of everyone's strategy. Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly. And it's not just B2B, as you said, it's B2C as well. And it can't just be about lead generation. It can't just be about generating revenue. You've got to look at the long vision, look down the tunnel, and figure out where you want your brand to be, your brand identity, your brand authority, and get that out there with your content.

2:15So yes, you can generate leads from that. But if you look at it solely as a lead generator, then I think you're going to focus too much on being salesy and not enough on being informative. Yes. And, you know, informative is really the key there, right? Because now consumers don't buy anything without doing some level of research, right? I mean, if you're Googling, you're researching. So, I mean, they're going to look for other user reviews. They're going to be, you know, checking for testimonials. And so you really can't get away from it. So I guess the question becomes, do you want to control the story or do you want the story to control you?

2:54Well, it's never a good idea to let the story control you because you don't have control. You know, the word control there, it shifts whether you do it one way or another. And so you want to be in control of your message. You want to be in control of how your brand is perceived. Absolutely. And so most of us, of course, have some kind of web presence. and we'll typically be using our social media channels, although maybe not using them very well or very strategically, but usually we have those for our business as well. What are some of the things that people get wrong in terms of when they think about content marketing, if they think like, well, I have a website, it tells everything about my business there, the end.

3:39What are other kinds of mistakes that we make and what's the kind of mindset around how to get this right? Well, if that person were on the prices right, they'd be getting buzzed because that's not how you go about thinking about content marketing. It's not like, oh, we've got a blog and we've got a website done. You have to promote your content. So you do need to be on social media, but you need to pick the channels on social media where your audience is. So you can't just throw spaghetti at the wall and hope that all your people are going to show up on TikTok. If your demographic is older, then a lot of them may not be on TikTok and TikTok may not make any sense for you.

4:19LinkedIn might be good if you're a B2B venture, but you really need to think about who your audience is and have that person or those people in mind, like Betty Executive or John the Farmer. You need to have somebody in your head that you're directing this content to and doesn't have to just be your website and your blog or your social media. It can be podcasts. It can be reviews and testimonials are part of content marketing. So that's another thing that you need to think about. There are a whole host of ways that you can get your content out there. YouTube videos are another great example because a lot of people now are looking at videos for brands that they want to look into, or perhaps not at all, reading a blog post or reading a review.

5:08So you have to make sure that you've got your bases covered, but that you're not just slapping everything out there and hoping for the best. John, one of the issues I've been in meetings at the C level, they're concerned about how much do we need to do and what's the ROI going to be on content marketing? What's your thoughts on how do we reply to getting enough focus on content marketing and how much? Well, you don't have to produce content every single day. You don't have to be a content marketing machine, but you do need to be consistent about it. And you do need to put out content that makes sense for your brand, that makes sense for your audience.

5:52And in terms of trying to establish ROI, it can be tough. I mean, you can judge it on backlinks, You can judge it on page time. You can judge it on click throughs. If you have a newsletter, there are various ways to measure that. But sometimes it's really hard to tie that to an increase in sales. So you have to play the long game. And I've worked for companies where the goal was not to tie it directly to revenue, but to build authority and build identity and build the brand. And you can see that evolve if you're doing it the right way, but you can't necessarily see a correlation to a jump in revenue.

6:39So there is an ROI-ish quality about what you do. You can look at Google Analytics and use other tools to figure out who's reading this content, who's consuming this content, who's viewing this content. But you get into a dangerous territory when you draw the line and say, well, we have to have this huge ROI in order to make this happen. You kind of have to have confidence in what the analytics tell you and then realize we're making a difference. We're getting our message out there. People are paying attention to our brand. It feels like not just getting more people into the top of the funnel, but getting more of the people you're actually trying to reach into the top of the funnel.

7:20Yeah. And I mean, you can also gear content toward people who are already in the funnel. So, you know, there's any number of ways you can do it. I mean, I know companies that are actually putting out magazines like real print magazines. They may not be monthly, they may be quarterly, but that's a way to approach their audience. And for them, it works. For other brands, it may not work at all. So, again, you really have to think about who your audience is, who you want your audience members to be if you're trying to build your audience, and then tailor the content toward those folks that you're trying to attract and that you've already attracted.

7:59I guess that comes over to that quality issue versus the volume that you're going after. You even mentioned a lot in your writings about understanding your brand. And it's not clear that a lot of companies have really spent a lot of time there that seem to be chasing or almost in a defensive mode rather than an offense of really having a clear vision of what they are and how they differentiate themselves. And I would imagine that drives into differentiating what points of media they use for their content. Have you found that to be true? Well, I think it goes back to what I was saying earlier, and that is a lot of people try a whole bunch of approaches and they don't narrow the focus.

8:43So they're trying all this stuff. And in my book, I talk about failing quickly. If you're working on something and you've put it out there and you realize nobody's paying attention to this content, give it a little time to simmer. But if you don't see the needle moving, there's no reason to keep doing it over and over and over and over again because then you're wasting time and money and resources. So it really is critical to know your audience because then you know, oh, they like mailers or they like blog posts or they like podcasts or they like videos. But if you have no idea where your audience is consuming content, then it's really a shot in the dark.

9:29And so what you need to do is maybe do a focus group or maybe you already have a newsletter and you can ask a question in the newsletter and say, how do you like to consume content? Do you like YouTube? Do you like Facebook? Do you like Instagram? Do you like TikTok? And then it's not necessarily scientific, but at least you have a better sense. You just need to ask your audience, where do you get your information from? That comes into line with a number of conversations we've had with executive leaders indicating that they've almost boycotted certain types of social media. So that would be great to know.

10:08And so a lot of them are tracking various things. But there are certain forms of social media that are really gaining and those that are rescinding and specifically in the business arena for the business applications. Have you seen, if you were to rate the average business environment, any particular social media that's more powerful or where one would really want to make sure that it is a lead in their market space? Well, I take myself as an example. I'm older. So you have to take this into account when you're thinking about where I get my information from. I'm very active on Facebook. I'm very active on LinkedIn.

10:49Those are the two primary platforms that I'm on. I used to be a big user of Twitter, and now I am not a big fan of it because of the changes that have been made. So I just don't put much stock in Twitter anymore. And I don't hear as many people talking about, oh, did you see this on Twitter? Or, oh, did you see that on Twitter? It's more about Instagram or TikTok. I mean, there are literally people who get their news, quote unquote, from TikTok. That's kind of scary. It is, but it's reality. I mean, and you have to deal with that. And you have to realize if our demographic is spending that much time on TikTok, then maybe we need to be on TikTok.

11:33Now, a lot of B2B folks, that wouldn't necessarily work, but a B2C brand, it could work extremely well for them. John, are there any new social media forums that you see that are coming about or trends you're seeing as far as social media and who's providing it and how it's perceived? Not really. I mean, the biggest change I've been seeing is the evolution of Instagram and TikTok and then the decline of Twitter. What is happening with every social media platform and every person who's involved in content marketing is artificial intelligence and how you should use it, whether you should use it.

12:15My advice now is to tread very carefully. I have clients of mine who I write for who are very strictly, they spell it out in your contract, do not use AI to produce any of your content. If they find out, you're canned. And I understand that. But a lot of the content and whether it's social media posts or blog posts or what have you, a lot of the content that is generated by artificial intelligence starts sounding the same and starts sounding a little mechanical. And it doesn't have the nuance that you would expect from something written by a human. So if there are people out there who are listening who think that AI is the magic bullet and that's the answer to all their content marketing quandaries, you're sadly mistaken, at least at this point.

13:09So it can be used in great ways to generate ideas or do an outline or something like that that may not be audience facing, but may help you with your content development. but just simply relying on AI to spit out content for you, that's dicey. And there's a lot of mistakes in that content too that have been exposed. Yeah, and that's going to hurt your credibility. I mean, I think people are looking for something to stand out. And I think that's actually an opportunity for us, right? So we all want to feel more connected, I think, in terms of awareness of the companies we're buying from, especially younger generations.

13:52I think that have grown up with a high level of transparency want to see and understand who they're buying from, what that company represents, what it stands for. And so just good storytelling through the appropriate channels. Like you said, even if you're using AI to help you organize ideas, it's going to be flat if you're just cutting and pasting. Well, and funny you should mention that, you know, Sports Illustrated recently got caught using AI. and they took it to the next level. They were creating fake writers with fake photos that were AI-generated photos. So the writer did not exist. And there were several instances of this.

14:35And the photos were available on sites that sell AI-generated photos. So not only were they passing off content as being written by Joe Schmoe. And there's Joe Schmoe's picture. But Joe Schmoe doesn't exist. And that person does not exist. The image of that person, that person isn't around. And Sports Illustrated, I mean, I have a journalism background. It was the gold standard for sports journalism and storytelling. Some of the best stories you could ever read, whether you're interested in sports or not, were published by Sports Illustrated. And now their reputation's been tarnished. And I don't know how far downhill they may have gone in the past number of years, especially with the advent of the internet.

15:25But I don't know how you climb back from that and regain trust with your audience. It's a steep climb. That's for sure. Yeah. I mean, that's etched in my mind now. Yeah. And if you think about this on a smaller scale, that would be the death of a local business, right? Or a business that relies on a discrete marketplace. Once you lose trust in customers, it's very difficult to get that back. Well, fake reviews have been a problem for a long time. Now with AI, it just makes it that much easier to create fake reviews. So that's one area where I'd be especially careful with using AI because you don't want to hoodwink your customers, your client base.

16:09I agree. And I think now more than ever, less reviews, but from really high quality, visible people of influence, or just people that are authentic, direct reviews that you can share as testimonials, those kinds of things could go a long way versus, as you're saying, a bunch of questionable reviews through one of the other channels. Well, and I'll give you another example of something that's going on. I won't name it, but there's a platform that a lot of writers, journalists use. to try to get sources for their content. And now that platform is flagging suspected spam and or AI-generated content.

16:49So you're getting called out by this platform if they detect or suspect that you're basically sending junk to journalists and writers who are seeking sources. I recently was doing a story. I don't even remember what it was about. and I went to that platform to seek sources, two of the five sources I got back were flagged as having been suspected of creating spam or AI-generated content. Yeah, and you can see where this is all heading, right? Oh, yeah. So going to this next era, trying to connect on a meaningful way is going to be more important than ever. And I think we should talk a little bit about offline channels as well, right?

17:34Because I think one of the things that you said right from the beginning, John, is this is really all about understanding where the customers you want are and understanding how to reach them. And so we can look at it through social media. As you pointed out, LinkedIn is going to have a very different user base than TikTok. But depending on the kind of industry that you're in or the marketplace you're in, there are many other channels to reach customers. And I think that we shouldn't think of content marketing just in the digital space. No, I mean, my book is a type of content marketing. I'm marketing myself.

18:09You can do mailers. You can do, as I mentioned before, a quarterly magazine. There are a lot of people, especially in the upper end of the demographic range, as far as age is concerned, who like having a physical magazine. So it goes back to knowing who your audience is and knowing what kind of content they consume and where they consume it. So John, as I'm thinking through all of this, you know, it's so funny how the conversation has come full circle back to this idea of, if you don't know who you're trying to market to, it's very difficult to understand what is the right content, what is the right channel, right?

18:48So we have to start there. And all of us are somewhere in this process. We all are content marketing, whether we realize it or not. If you have a website, you're doing so. So what I'm wondering about is, what can all of us do? Is there a handful of things that we could do right now to maybe audit where we are in this process and start moving towards some more effective practices. Well, it's interesting you mentioned the word audit because what is common, especially for an SEO agency or a content marketing agency that's working with a new client is they do a content audit. They figure out blog posts.

19:26Are they up to date? What kind of blog posts do you have? What kind of videos do you have? What kind of social media presence do you have? And the list goes on and on. So that may be something that you can farm out to an outside vendor, or somebody internal may be able to do that. You may even be able to put an intern to work during the summer and ask them to take inventory of where your content marketing is. And then once you realize where you are, then you can plot where you need to go. And that may be as simple as figuring out, okay, our blog seems to be performing well, but we're maybe not posting enough.

20:10So maybe you come up with a schedule and a calendar of this is the topic of the content we want to do for February 10th. And this is the content we want to do for February 12th and so on and so forth. So that you have a map that tells you where you're heading, that can guide you in the right direction. So it's starting with some of the basics, you know, figuring out what you've got and then figuring out how you can get to where you want to go. Well, John, I want to thank you so much for joining us today. And I can't help but thinking how your book in and of itself would be such a great place for people to start.

20:51So thanks for being with us. Thank you. If you want to check out how to get the book, it's called The Strip Down Guide to Content Marketing. And you can either find it on Amazon or you can find it on my website, which is jonegan.net. Our guest today has been John Egan, content creator, marketing strategist, and author of the book. the stripped-down guide to content marketing. You can learn more about John as well as find links to his content and book on our website at businessownersradio.com. Thank you for joining us on Business Owners Radio. We hope you enjoyed today's show. As always, you can read more about each episode along with links and offers in the show notes on our website, businessownersradio.com.

21:41We want to hear your feedback. please leave comments on this show or suggestions for upcoming episodes tell your fellow business owners about the show and of course you would love the stars and comments on itunes till next time keep taking care of business