SALES | How to increase your influence in customer conversations to close more deals. w/Nikki Rausch

0:00And now, Taking Care of Business, your hosts, Craig Moen and Shai Gilad. Welcome to Business Owners Radio, episode 232. Our guest today is Nikki Rausch, CEO of SalesMaven and author of three books, including her latest, The Selling Staircase, Mastering the Art of Relationship Selling. With over 25 years of experience selling such prestigious organizations as the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Hewlett-Packard, and NASA, Nikki shatters sales records in many industries, receiving multiple top producer awards along the way. Nikki has the unique ability to transform the misunderstood process of selling.

0:46Today, entrepreneurs and small business owners from a wide range of disciplines hire Nikki to show them how to sell successfully and authentically. Good morning, Nikki. Welcome to Business Owners Radio. Thanks for having me. Well, thanks for joining us. We've been so excited to speak to the sales maven. And following your work, big fan of your work for a long time now, you have a vast experience in sales and you've published multiple books on this topic. Obviously, valued consultant by a lot of different industries and a lot of extensive work with business owners and entrepreneurs. Curious, Nikki, what first got you into the world of sales?

1:27And how are you helping people now? Well, really what first got me into the world of sales was when I moved to Washington State in the early 90s or mid 90s, I had my first job where I started getting paid a commission as part of the job. I had never had a commission job before, but I loved the idea of being able to control my income. And it was an hourly low level position. And sometimes I was doubling and tripling my hourly wage. And so I was hooked on it. I eventually made my way through a college project actually into a professional sales position in the tech space and worked my way up, became their national sales manager.

2:11I was the only person ever promoted from within to a management position in this company and then moved on to the manufacturing side where I became the traveling road warrior, managing a very large territory and closing multi-million dollar deals. And while I was doing that, I got really invested in wanting to really up my sales game because there was so much opportunity there. And I started studying neurolinguistic programming. That's a new term to anybody listening. It's essentially the study of communication. And when I started SalesMaven back in 2013, it was the idea of combining my sales experience with my NLP background and teaching people how to have more strategic and more effective sales conversations.

2:59And so now what I do is I work with business owners and entrepreneurs, and I teach them how to have better sales conversations. All right. Well, neuro-linguistic programming. Tell us a little more about NLP. How does that work? So it's, like I said, it's the study of communication. So neuro is the way we process this information in our brains. Linguistics is the language piece of it. So it's not just what the words that you say, but it's also being able to pick up cues of how the other person speaks. And also it talks about your internal dialogue as well. Like most of us have an internal voice going on.

3:34So when you're able to manage that, and then the programming piece is about habits and patterns. And ultimately, it's learning how to add flexibility to your own style and behavior to put the other person at ease. Or at least that's how I'm going to say there's a lot that goes into NLP. And it's used in many different applications. But from a sales perspective, I always teach people, and I'll just reference my favorite quote, which is, blessed are the flexible, for they shall not be bent out of shape. So I'm teaching people how to add some flexibility to their style. Because I don't know if you've ever noticed this, but when you meet somebody for the first time who has a similar style to you, it's easy to be in conversation with that person.

4:16You know, like time goes really fast and it just flows really easily and naturally. And then when you meet somebody who has a very different style than you, it can be hard to be in a conversation. It feels like 10 minutes, feels like an hour. Sometimes you feel like you need a nap after having a conversation with somebody who has a very different style than you. So when you're able to bring in some of these techniques and adjust your style to put the other person at ease, the conversation flows more smoothly. And from a sales perspective, what happens is people will stay in conversation with you longer.

4:50They'll be more open to hearing your message and what it is that you have to share. But more importantly, they'll be more open to be revealing about how to earn their business. That's so interesting. I know we've all encountered that kind of a situation. And I'm wondering how you think about the way these styles show up. One thing that I've observed, just even in listening to you speak now, is you have a very outgoing presence and a very inviting presence. And I think that it seems to me, in my experience, a lot of sales folks that I've met that are very good at what they do also have a similar kind of style.

5:28but what if you're selling to a CFO? What if they're an important part of a pitch? And a lot of the CFOs I've met tend to be a little more maybe introverted or maybe more conservative in their communication style. I'm not saying that everyone is that way but in my experience, I've certainly noticed a difference in those styles. And so what is the gap between how that person receives information and how maybe someone like you or I might show up in that interaction? Well, the easiest way to address that is to take your cues from the other person. So if you're somebody who's really outgoing, high energy, and you find yourself in a meeting with a CFO or anybody at the C-suite level, or frankly, anybody that has a very different style, maybe they're a little bit more reserved.

6:17Maybe they use very short sentences. They don't have a lot of hand gestures when they're speaking. All of these things are cues that give you indications as to what that person's style is. So instead of spending a bunch of time having small talk with somebody who seems to want to just get to the point, you're better off getting to the point with that person and being more direct if that seems to be their style and not going into a bunch of story and not going into a bunch of flowery language and giving way more detail. It's really learning how to pay attention to the other person's style. And I will just say that regardless of what somebody's title is on their business card, the thing that I teach my clients over and over and over again...

7:07As a matter of fact, I have a podcast episode specifically about this this week, airing about how to sell to C-suite. The idea behind this is people are people and they give you clues. And you will find CFOs that are super outgoing, that are super friendly, that will spend extra time with you. And then you'll find others that are like, just the facts. That's all I want. Don't give me a bunch of sales pitch. Give me the facts and let's move on to the next thing. So take your cues from their style. They'll indicate what their style is. Yeah. And I think that all of that starts with, I suppose, asking some good questions and actually actively listening for those types of clues.

7:49Yeah, you just nailed it. So the one thing that people often forget in sales is that your job isn't just to talk. Your job isn't to just show up and be like, here I am, I'm gonna put on a little dog and pony show and it hit my little press play and here's my spew. That's not what it is. It's about paying attention to the other person and listening and most importantly, asking really smart questions. Because questions are where you will get the information that you need in order to earn that person's business. And if you're not asking questions, if you're just speaking the whole time, you're going to miss out on essentially the step-by-step process of what it's going to take to earn that person's business.

8:34And the other thing I'll say about questions is questions also are a great opportunity to plant seeds about what your product is capable or your service is capable of doing for somebody without you having to go like, here's why we're so great. Here's why this product is the one you need. If you ask a really smart question, it is implied based on the question that you ask that your product or your service is gonna deliver on the thing that you're asking the question about. I love that. And I can't help you give me a little bit of PTSD. So I have to - Uh-oh. Well, it's like post-traumatic sales distress.

9:10So what I'm thinking about now is years ago, we were evaluating in a business that I ran. We were evaluating a software platform. And we had already evaluated three or four different options. And there was one platform that I was really ready to go with based on a considerable amount of due diligence. We've been looking at this for months with the leadership team. And we're pretty much there. And the founder comes in for this final meeting where I'm already proud of this meeting. I'm pretty much ready to sign this thing. And I'm definitely one of those people that I just want the facts. I'm interested in others.

9:46I think when I first met the different folks, I wanted to know what led them to found their companies. But I want the cliff notes on that, right? So here we are at this final meeting and this person starts out and they had a massive presentation, almost as if we had never met before. And we're 10 minutes in and they're still talking about their client roster. And I'm like, we're ready to buy this product. I don't care about any of this. And I found myself getting really, really, really frustrated. And I actually, it was one of the few times that I've actually interrupted a meeting like that and just named what was going on.

10:23And I didn't do it in a way to sort of admonish the person. I kind of wanted to let them know, hey, look, I value what's happening here. And we're very interested in the product itself. You've done a great job with that. And you're validated as far as we're concerned. We've done our homework. I really need to talk to you about what these different options are and some things we'd like to see and what we can negotiate in these terms. And I think it was just incredible to me. And this is, I think what you're talking about with just a different neuro-linguistic style, this person showed up and just stayed on their script and just was not really reading the room or understanding even where they were, which made me wonder about how while they were listening throughout the whole process.

11:04That's such a great point. And I'm sorry that happened. And I'm glad that you spoke up for yourself and didn't just sit there and let them go through their presentation. I will say one of the best compliments I used to get when I would go out with sales reps and like from a manufacturing side, we did ride days with our reps and they would take us into these meetings. And a compliment that people would often give, my reps would give me is they would say, Nikki, you rarely give the same presentation twice. You still get the same information out, but it's like every presentation is a little different.

11:38And the reason that was true was because I was trying to read the room. I was asking questions as to what was most interesting, what were their criteria and things like that. And then I would base my presentation and speak about the things that they talked about were important to them. And so every presentation wasn't the same because otherwise, what do you need me for? You can just go watch a video if I'm just giving you the same dog and pony show over and over and over again. So I do think from a sales perspective, it is so important to be able to read the room, ask really good questions, and then focus on the thing that is most interesting to the people in the room.

12:18And then I just want to comment too that one of the big mistakes in sales is, and I learned this early in my career. Thankfully, I had a great mentor who yelled at me one day about this. And it's a lesson I've taken is you never sell past the close. So when the customer's ready to buy, you take the order. I love that. Yeah. You have to know when you've reached your objective. Anything you add at that point can only bring you down. Yeah. Or it just muddies the waters, right? It slows people down. Or you might say something that then causes them to go, ooh, maybe we shouldn't buy right now. Maybe we better think about this.

12:56Maybe we have better look at what else is out on the market. It's like, never sell past the close. When the customer's ready to buy, you take that order. I love it. It reminds me of salespeople in action, watching them have a real difficult time closing. That's too final for them. The customer might say no, and they just don't want to hear it. So getting them past that must be a continuous challenge, Nikki. It is. It's interesting that you commented on that too, because the three of us talked about this before we started the recording that I have a book called The Selling Staircase. And that's my five-step process to the sales conversation.

13:32And step five in The Selling Staircase is close. And it's the second most misstep. Most salespeople, it's almost like they get afraid to close. And so they do this thing. They'll say like, okay, well, just let me know. It's like, that's not a close. A close is actually issuing some type of a question that allows the person to make a decision. And because so many people are missing this step, this is why a lot of people are frustrated because they go, people ghost me all the time, or I have this whole roster of people who I think are going to buy, but I just can't get back in touch with them. Chances are it's because you didn't actually issue the clothes and you left it open for them and now you put the ball in their court and you're expecting them to come back and earn their own business from you?

14:24No, that's your job. Your job is to earn the business. You have to issue clothes statements and questions. Otherwise, a lot of times people just won't make a decision. It's that tension in the room. It's amazing to watch. Amazing to watch. One of the things that came to mind many years of being in these environments is tech companies. And we have a huge volume of startups continuously, which is great. And we have a lot of, if you will, new owners, new people that may or may not have any sales experience, much less marketing experience. But they've really put together some solutions for the industries, for the country, for amazing markets.

15:04and their mindset might be, well, if we have good marketing, we'll hire a marketing firm and then orders will just come in. And you and I know there's a huge gap there. And so many times they'll pull in a sales manager out of the blue and with great credentials and a good salary. And now it's the sales managers turn to educate the C-level on how this is all going forward. What are some of your experiences there? Yeah, I think the idea is whoever is initiating that meeting or whoever's got the information, they really should have some kind of selling skills and some training around it. Because they can cost themselves the deal if they're waiting for somebody like, oh, I'm going to bring in somebody else to do this work.

15:50It can feel like a weird pass off, right? So when you're like, oh, well, I'm just initiating the conversation and then I'm going to bring somebody else in to actually close the business. Well, you're the one who started to build a relationship. So you should at least get it prepped where, to me, the turnover is after the sale is closed. I would be a little hesitant about bringing somebody else in to close the sale because they're starting from scratch from a relationship standpoint. This dialogue that occurs between bringing other teammates in and introducing more of the company and their various components and support.

16:29And we see this every day where it's like we're dealing with multiple companies. And we were chatting earlier about customer facing representatives of the company and how they all are part of the selling process. And a quote from the past is everyone sells. how do you bring forward that or how do you approach that within your client base and customers about how they need to bring in sales into the culture of the business? Well, first and foremost, I think it needs to be something that's focused on and talked about in the culture and recognized. There should be recognition given to the people who are opening up new opportunities.

17:12So that's something that you can do in your team meetings. That's something that you can actually track. And along with that, you should provide training to your people to have these conversations. I often go in and do trainings for organizations where there isn't even somebody in the room that has sales in their title. It's all the people that are interfacing with clients at different levels where I'm training them on a couple things. how to create curiosity when they're speaking to your existing client base. Because the thing that sometimes people forget is that the best business to earn is repeat business.

17:51And the people who are interacting with those existing clients right now, they have the opportunity to open the door for additional business and repeat business. But if they don't know how to open the door, if you're not training them on how to create these little peaks of curiosity, you're leaving money on the table because you can't expect your clients to know what else they can do with you or what else you could provide to them, how else you could serve them. So you have to teach your team members that are interfacing with them how to drop those little, I call them planting seeds, but planting those little seeds of curiosity.

18:29And then the second piece of it that often goes in the training is I teach people how to recognize buying signals. Because oftentimes your existing client base, they will give buying signals. But if the person who's interfacing with them doesn't know how to recognize and act on a buying signal, it gets missed. And then what happens is they'll go hire somebody else to provide that service or that product for them, not even realizing that they could have bought it from you, but nobody initiated the conversation. So they'll wait until an opportunity presents itself and they'll buy from someone else.

19:04It happens all the time. It's amazing. And it's really apparent there seems to be a big gap between those companies that do not train all other customer facing people and those that do. And those who do train all their customer facing people and know how to interact amongst the various entities of their business to have a consistency. consistency, it's like night and day. And so there's a tremendous need for people like yourself to bring this knowledge forward. Tell me a little bit about the format and structure of your book, The Selling Staircase. So I thank you for asking. So I broke the book down into a five step process.

19:46So one of the things that I learned in my background of neurolinguistic programming is there is a structure to excellence. And so when you can put a structure in front of somebody and give them like basically these are the steps, then it allows for other people to have success because most of us can follow a structure or can follow kind of a step-by-step approach. So when I was teaching sales, I found that if I could break it down into these five steps of a sales conversation, it made it easier for people to feel more confident in their own selling abilities. And the reason I teach it as a selling staircase is because most people understand that the way you go up a staircase is one step at a time.

20:27You don't start at the bottom and just hop your way up to the top. And unfortunately, people who don't understand sales often meet somebody and go right in for the close. And that's them skipping steps. So the idea of this five-step approach is it allows for the person in the conversation who is there to earn the business, to be the salesperson, to understand what step are we on right now? And what should I say or do to guide the person to the next step. And so instead of trying to feel the pressure of like, oh my gosh, I have to close this business. It's like, well, what step are we on? Because all you really have to do is move to the next step.

21:07And then once you're on that step, then you can move to the next step. So this progression I find takes some of the pressure off of people who aren't that comfortable with sales. And it allows them to go, oh, I know what to do or say next. And once you have that confidence in that conversation, then you also are projecting that to the prospect that you're in the conversation with. And more importantly, you make it so much easier for them to actually give you their business when you can follow a process. So the five steps of the selling staircase. Step one is introduction. The idea here is to make a powerful first impression.

21:46That happens all the time in all different ways. It could be from your website, could be from an ad that somebody saw, it could be because they met you at a networking meeting. There's a lot of ways that you can set yourself up to make a positive first impression. Step two is create curiosity. This is the most misstep in the selling process. I find that when I ask people, do you know how to create curiosity? When you're talking about your business, when you're talking about your service, they look at me like, what? What now? So teaching people how to create curiosity has been a game changer because if you don't know how to create curiosity in the other person, you rarely can even move them to the next step because they don't show any interest.

22:27So you have to create curiosity. Once you create curiosity, buying signals happen from that. And then you can invite them to the third step, which I call discovery. A lot of people consider that the sales call. But the idea when you're in that step is not to sell. The idea is to ask really smart questions, to get the information that you need to establish, am I talking to a prospective client? If so, great. I'm going to know what to do next. And if there isn't a fit here, if they don't have a need or a want, and they're not a right fit for my company, then I'm going to bless and release that person.

23:03So I can end the conversation there. If they are the right fit, then we're going to move them to step four in the process, which is proposal. That sounds very formal. But that could be in some cases, depends on your business, or it could just be an opportunity for you to lay out ways to work together. And then step five goes really closely with proposal and that's the close. And that's actually getting that close language out of your mouth. So once you have these five steps, it makes the sales conversation easier. Where do you find the biggest challenge? What step seems to be the biggest hurdle in the selling cycle?

23:38I think creating curiosity. because a lot of times people will often say, well, I just need more clients. Well, that could be true. Oh, I'm just going to go spend more money on marketing. Marketing's job is not sales. And I think you might have alluded to this a little bit too. And is marketing's job is to bring leads in the door. Sales job is to earn that business. So if you're not able to create curiosity with the lead that comes in the door, it's very hard to earn somebody's business if they're not leaning in and wanting to know more, the idea of like, oh, I'm just gonna go out and buy a list of 10 ,000 emails and I'm gonna do the shotgun approach to sales.

24:19Well, we all get those emails in our inbox every day and most of us hit delete because there's nothing about that email that creates any curiosity for the person that's reading it. So I think creating curiosity is a game changer in business. Nikki, can you give us some examples of what we can do to generate that kind of curiosity during the sales process? Yes. You'll think you'll have a crazy lady here, but bear with me for just a second. So I like to give the example that creating curiosity to me is the difference between how you call a dog and how you call a cat. So if you're a dog, I don't know if either of you are dog lovers or cat lovers on the call.

25:00I'm an equal opportunity pet lover. Okay. Okay. Perfect. We love them all. You love them all too, Craig? Yeah, it's amazing. Anything with four legs is okay. Okay, good. All right. Well, then we'll see if you like this example. So if you think about wanting to get a dog's attention, a lot of times you show up from this place of this high energy, like, come here, boy, come here, right? And dogs respond to that. They're like, oh, something fun's going to happen. I'm totally in. They don't even know what's going to happen, but they're anticipating something fun. So they're in with you. And unfortunately, a lot of times in sales, we're so excited to talk to somebody or we're so excited to show up in their inbox that we have dog calling energy.

25:42We do this word vomit thing. Like, this is who I am. This is what our company does. This is how awesome we are. That's that dog calling energy. Well, people don't respond in the same way as dogs. So they push away. They go, ooh, too much. Come on, too strong. It's not interesting. So if you think about how you call a cat, with a cat, you do this thing where you go, here, kitty, kitty. Here, kitty, kitty. Now, you guys might know, but cats don't even come to that sometimes. But they will often give you a little look like, what? What do you got going on? I'll see if I'm interested. So that's what we have to do with people is we have to create some curiosity.

26:25And the way that you do that is how I give the example of creating what I call here kitty kitty statements. A lot of times it's either answering a question in a way that somebody goes, well, what does that mean? Tell me more about that. Or stating something that makes people want to know more. Or asking them a question that gets their brain thinking like, ooh, why are they asking me this question? What would that mean? So an example of it, let's say that... Well, we'll see if you guys think I did create curiosity at all. But I actually planted a little curiosity creating answer to one of the questions that you guys asked, which was there was a question about selling to the C-suite, like the CFO.